World Restructuring

[X T D.6458]

@morrolan.9608 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

How long do you think it will take before it turns into a EoTM style ktrain, because you took away any meaning to matches

Matches have no meaning now. In fact once this new system is bedded down maybe they will be able to reintroduce tournaments and give matches more meaning.

Oh the real fun is gonna start when they announce rewards for the winning server. You know because it worked out so well in the past.

[Mr Green.4157]

@Concordia Discors.7592 said:

So, in our PvX guild - 150+ online daily and we often hit 500 cap. We want to WvW under our guild tag, and would like the option of joining an alliance if WvW is definitely going as mentioned in the original post. If some of our guildies do as you say (pick WvW guild because its their main guild) then we can't join an alliance. We've guildies in WvW every day, some just weekends, and some log in every couple of weeks. That wouldn't be fair on a WvW alliance, but if we join an alliance with guilds like ours we may as well just not join one.

From what I understand and I could be wrong I don't think they will weigh all alliances equally. Your alliances active hours are what matters so joining an alliance should be more centered around ensuring you get to play with the guilds you want to play with. Which means that if they are a guild you like there is a point to joining the alliance even if they are like your guild.

[aandiarie.7195]

With these drastic changes anet better improve the rewards for winning each week!

[Mr Green.4157]

@Zephyr.8015 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Zephyr.8015 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Zephyr.8015 said:SoS is putting in work, SoS is putting in the time and the effort and I applaud them for doing it.

It seems like you didn't understand the meat of the example in the dev's post. SoS is only "putting in work" because they have a link that helps them achieve that: Borlis Pass. The dev said it is difficult for them to create teams that have the coverage profile of BG because the world linking system is not granular enough. So for example CD has the population but not the coverage. Anet was able to seemingly do it with the SoS and BP link, but their real goal is to be able to do that for all teams. The proposed system would create the granularity needed to achieve that goal.

So TBT, Gal, TSYM, Rx, Doc, Caos are all on BP? The only two guilds I know on BP are Joy and CL both of which are former BG guilds.

Talking about population and coverage here, not guilds! You have to look at the entire forest, not just specific trees.

Yes and you've had 50 man blobs at 4am EST, while BG is dead. Continue talking about coverage please.

By dead you're talking what 10 people across all four maps? because that is what a dead time zone looks like.

[Juba.8406]

So after 5 years you just had to do it.

This will kill WvW for so much people.

[Caliburn.1845]

So lets look at how to keep a server community together under this new system. At least in so far as we can see of the new system.

We'll go with the idea that you can have 1000 members in these new alliances. We don't know how many guilds will be allowed, but let us go with a safe 2 guilds.

First thing I do is create two new guilds Crystalgate Dragonpeak Alpha, Crystalgate Dragonpeak Beta. I max them out to 500 roster slot size. I then add everyone on my server to these guilds. They do not need to rep these guilds, or play WvW under these guild tags. All they need to do is accept the invite into these server guilds, and opt for them as their designated WvW guild. It costs them nothing but a guild slot.

Poof, the community remains intact and together. And now they have an informal server chat using the /guild chat in each of these guilds, promoting an even tighter better sense of community.

Why are people scared of this? It is going to foster stronger more cohesive communities. And before you argue that some megalomaniac people are going to run these server based guilds, so what? You get to pick one that is run by someone you agree with and respect.

[PabbyGaul.9682]

Ppl dont really know what they want.

[X T D.6458]

@Caliburn.1845 said:

Why are people scared of this? It is going to foster stronger more cohesive communities. And before you argue that some megalomaniac people are going to run these server based guilds, so what? You get to pick one that is run by someone you agree with and respect.

How is it supposed to foster stronger communities if a few guilds can lock up a server and exclude others out? How do you think you will be able to recruit people for your guilds? Why do you think everyone wants to be ruled by some nutcase in a video game?

Some guilds and players, so full of egos that don't seem to understand Militias fuel guilds. No militia=no guilds.

[Mr Green.4157]

@X T D.6458 said:

@Caliburn.1845 said:

Why are people scared of this? It is going to foster stronger more cohesive communities. And before you argue that some megalomaniac people are going to run these server based guilds, so what? You get to pick one that is run by someone you agree with and respect.

How is it supposed to foster stronger communities if a few guilds can lock up a server and exclude others out? How do you think you will be able to recruit people for your guilds? Why do you think everyone wants to be ruled by some nutcase in a video game?

Some guilds and players, so full of egos that don't seem to understand Militias fuel guilds. No militia=no guilds.

Ah but you can pick the nutcase who leads you. This makes them your democratically elected nutcase and if you stop liking that nutcase then you can leave that nutcases alliance and democratically elect yourself a new nutcase in a new alliance of every other guild that hated the old nutcase.

[squeakers.5029]

Sooooo... random thought......

Would there a way to form an "anti-alliance" type thing? So guilds can make sure they don't get stuck with certain other guilds?

[aandiarie.7195]

Anet better improve rewards then for the end of the 8 weeks if they are scrapping our worlds O_O

[X T D.6458]

@Mr Green.4157 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Caliburn.1845 said:

Why are people scared of this? It is going to foster stronger more cohesive communities. And before you argue that some megalomaniac people are going to run these server based guilds, so what? You get to pick one that is run by someone you agree with and respect.

How is it supposed to foster stronger communities if a few guilds can lock up a server and exclude others out? How do you think you will be able to recruit people for your guilds? Why do you think everyone wants to be ruled by some nutcase in a video game?

Some guilds and players, so full of egos that don't seem to understand Militias fuel guilds. No militia=no guilds.

Ah but you can pick the nutcase who leads you. This makes them your democratically elected nutcase and if you stop liking that nutcase then you can leave that nutcases alliance and democratically elect yourself a new nutcase in a new alliance of every other guild that hated the old nutcase.

Why would you want to be lead by a nutcase? Why do you think players should have control over the actions of others?

[Caliburn.1845]

Sure, you can build your alliance however you want. Be as inclusive, or exclusive as you want to be. You can have your super tryhard, only fight guilds and WvW veterans with 5000+ hours in WvW make one alliance. And you can have your random militia, small guilds, casual players without any sort of requirements make their own alliance.

And then based on what you want from WvW, you go and find the alliance that is the best fit for you.

[Mr Green.4157]

@X T D.6458 said:

@Mr Green.4157 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Caliburn.1845 said:

Why are people scared of this? It is going to foster stronger more cohesive communities. And before you argue that some megalomaniac people are going to run these server based guilds, so what? You get to pick one that is run by someone you agree with and respect.

How is it supposed to foster stronger communities if a few guilds can lock up a server and exclude others out? How do you think you will be able to recruit people for your guilds? Why do you think everyone wants to be ruled by some nutcase in a video game?

Some guilds and players, so full of egos that don't seem to understand Militias fuel guilds. No militia=no guilds.

Ah but you can pick the nutcase who leads you. This makes them your democratically elected nutcase and if you stop liking that nutcase then you can leave that nutcases alliance and democratically elect yourself a new nutcase in a new alliance of every other guild that hated the old nutcase.

Why would you want to be lead by a nutcase? Why do you think players should have control over the actions of others?

I suppose it would be a good idea to make sure your guild and alliance aren't run by nutcases before you join then. Or you could not join any guild / alliance and then never have to worry about being led by any nutcases ever again as with this new system there won't even be any server based war councils full of nutcases to rule over your head.

[Vegeta.2563]

@Mr Green.4157 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Caliburn.1845 said:

Why are people scared of this? It is going to foster stronger more cohesive communities. And before you argue that some megalomaniac people are going to run these server based guilds, so what? You get to pick one that is run by someone you agree with and respect.

How is it supposed to foster stronger communities if a few guilds can lock up a server and exclude others out? How do you think you will be able to recruit people for your guilds? Why do you think everyone wants to be ruled by some nutcase in a video game?

Some guilds and players, so full of egos that don't seem to understand Militias fuel guilds. No militia=no guilds.

Ah but you can pick the nutcase who leads you. This makes them your democratically elected nutcase and if you stop liking that nutcase then you can leave that nutcases alliance and democratically elect yourself a new nutcase in a new alliance of every other guild that hated the old nutcase.

Don't you need to wait every 8 weeks to do that?

[Soul Dragon.5301]

I never wanted to post on these forums. After 7 years of playing Guild Wars 1, I know all too well the arrogance and vitriol and lies that get splattered around textboards. But after hearing about this thread in WvW tonight, coincidentally enough, I had to come here and share my opinion, for once.

Arena Net, this is the single most destructive decision you could do to the WvW community, and it doesn't even fix the issue that you're trying to resolve. You're going to delete 5 years of WvW history to cater to casuals and haters of a gamemode they don't understand or appreciate, for the sake of temporarily changing the line-up that will quickly result in the same complaints that you're having now. The players that only put in an hour of WvW gameplay a week will always complain about not being included, always ignoring their own lack of self-inclusion and refusing to acknowledge their own contribution while demanding the same rewards.

In your initial post you blatantly display whom your ire and dscrimination is aimed at, and that is my home server, since prerelease, of Blackgate. It's a running gag here in my server about how much Anet hates Blackgate, and we wear it as a badge of honor because we are STILL successful by our hardwork and dedication despite fighting, at some times, up to 6 servers at once. Your idea to dissolve servers for the sake of shifting WvW power about guilds instead of server populations will end in the exact same situation we're in now, and that is an alliance with mostly Blackgate members dominating the WvW field, and you'll have effectively achieved nothing but taking our name away from us.

You also introduce the worst element of all into the WvW environment, something that is protected right now by an account's home server location, and that is the human element. If only alliances with guilds can participate in high tiered WvW matches, then the decision on who gets to play in high tier WvW will come down to those few leaders of said guilds. Imperfect, biased, self-interested, prejudicial, human players. They will, without a doubt, hold their alliance's status over their individual players' heads as a cudgel (an ever-increasingly popular term these days) to force submission from their numbers in order to continue playing in a tier that they may have already spent YEARS working to achieve. Favoritism will determine who is tier 1, not skill or dedication or hours or sacrifice. It'll come down to kissing the right butt, and continue kissing that butt until this new system too fails to change the demographic you're so eager to create waves in.

I am not opposed to trying this idea, but I am fanatically opposed to having it forced onto me and my server with no recourse. Go ahead and replace the failed Edge of the Mists experiment; the lacklust rewards of that gamemode will not be missed. Do not delete 5 years of WvW rivalry and identity for shallow and foresight-lacking purposes, you as the developer do not write the history of your game, the players do. You make changes and introduce new ideas into the game world, but WE the players are the ones that experience the game, WE write the game's history, and WE decide what works, what's fun, what's exploitable, and what has got to go. WvW has been server-based since the beta weekends in 2012 (that we the masses were allowed to initially experience), and the moment you expunge that from the game is the moment that WvW ceases to have a reason to exist in a lot of our hearts and minds. Give your players choice, we've earned that. Do not take away something that gives us the pride, and some of us the reason, to log onto your servers each night and spend hours of our time holding a banner that is much more than a simple server name. It is a history that we the players have created on our own, for we have earned the right to keep our identity after over half a decade of dedication.

I am Blackgate. We are Blackgate.~Xtc Soul Dragon

[necrofarmer.9704]

Great idea! yay resetting wvw

[Mr Green.4157]

@Vegeta.2563 said:

@Mr Green.4157 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Caliburn.1845 said:

Why are people scared of this? It is going to foster stronger more cohesive communities. And before you argue that some megalomaniac people are going to run these server based guilds, so what? You get to pick one that is run by someone you agree with and respect.

How is it supposed to foster stronger communities if a few guilds can lock up a server and exclude others out? How do you think you will be able to recruit people for your guilds? Why do you think everyone wants to be ruled by some nutcase in a video game?

Some guilds and players, so full of egos that don't seem to understand Militias fuel guilds. No militia=no guilds.

Ah but you can pick the nutcase who leads you. This makes them your democratically elected nutcase and if you stop liking that nutcase then you can leave that nutcases alliance and democratically elect yourself a new nutcase in a new alliance of every other guild that hated the old nutcase.

Don't you need to wait every 8 weeks to do that?

From what I understand only if your new alliance requires that you transfer servers to a full server. If the new alliance is on the same server that the old one is on then during the first seven weeks you can do all the alliance switching you want. If the new alliance is on a different open server then you can just transfer to the new server. The only time you can't do it is the last week as everything is locked that week.

[Netko.9271]

Will there be new rewards for wining weekly matchup? Without server community and pride there is huge possibility that no one will care about wining if you don't get anything for it like now (I don't count one extra wvw chest with one green and blue as reward) and it will just be karma train as EotM. So if now match-ups will be better balanced it is is perfect time to introduce some initiative and rewards for winning too.

[Dawdler.8521]

Well, so long old community... this will kill WvW for many, many people.

Notice how its only one guild that determine where we are placed with our guildies?

That fucks over every single small guild in WvW, as if we wasnt fucked over already by the paywall of guild halls and objective creep

Why? Because in say a 5 man friends guild, you will probably be part of a community guild too, or a raiding guild. Well you can only go with one of them now. So fuck the community, fuck the raids or fuck your friends. Take your pick.

I cant leave my friends guild. We roam every single day, usually only 2-3 people, alongside our raiding guilds, pug guilds and pug commanders. But we do it together and like playing WvW like that.

With this change Anet is taking my WvW away from me, cause I cant follow my community. According to Anet I am no longer part of them.

I am sad :(

And yhis is before even mentioning that organized WvW with a community TS under this system... forget about it. Never gonna happen. WvW will be voiceless pug heaven. Welcome to EotM boys.

[X T D.6458]

@Xtc Soul Dragon.2067 said:I never wanted to post on these forums. After 7 years of playing Guild Wars 1, I know all too well the arrogance and vitriol and lies that get splattered around textboards. But after hearing about this thread in WvW tonight, coincidentally enough, I had to come here and share my opinion, for once.

Arena Net, this is the single most destructive decision you could do to the WvW community, and it doesn't even fix the issue that you're trying to resolve. You're going to delete 5 years of WvW history to cater to casuals and haters of a gamemode they don't understand or appreciate, for the sake of temporarily changing the line-up that will quickly result in the same complaints that you're having now. The players that only put in an hour of WvW gameplay a week will always complain about not being included, always ignoring their own lack of self-inclusion and refusing to acknowledge their own contribution while demanding the same rewards.

In your initial post you blatantly display whom your ire and dscrimination is aimed at, and that is my home server, since prerelease, of Blackgate. It's a running gag here in my server about how much Anet hates Blackgate, and we wear it as a badge of honor because we are STILL successful by our hardwork and dedication despite fighting, at some times, up to 6 servers at once. Your idea to dissolve servers for the sake of shifting WvW power about guilds instead of server populations will end in the exact same situation we're in now, and that is an alliance with mostly Blackgate members dominating the WvW field, and you'll have effectively achieved nothing but taking our name away from us.

You also introduce the worst element of all into the WvW environment, something that is protected right now by an account's home server location, and that is the human element. If only alliances with guilds can participate in high tiered WvW matches, then the decision on who gets to play in high tier WvW will come down to those few leaders of said guilds. Imperfect, biased, self-interested, prejudicial, human players. They will, without a doubt, hold their alliance's status over their individual players' heads as a cudgel (an ever-increasingly popular term these days) to force submission from their numbers in order to continue playing in a tier that they may have already spent YEARS working to achieve. Favoritism will determine who is tier 1, not skill or dedication or hours or sacrifice. It'll come down to kissing the right butt, and continue kissing that butt until this new system too fails to change the demographic you're so eager to create waves in.

I am not opposed to trying this idea, but I am fanatically opposed to having it forced onto me and my server with no recourse. Go ahead and replace the failed Edge of the Mists experiment; the lacklust rewards of that gamemode will not be missed. Do not delete 5 years of WvW rivalry and identity for shallow and foresight-lacking purposes, you as the developer do not write the history of your game, the players do. You make changes and introduce new ideas into the game world, but WE the players are the ones that experience the game, WE write the game's history, and WE decide what works, what's fun, what's exploitable, and what has got to go. WvW has been server-based since the beta weekends in 2012 (that we the masses were allowed to initially experience), and the moment you expunge that from the game is the moment that WvW ceases to have a reason to exist in a lot of our hearts and minds. Give your players choice, we've earned that. Do not take away something that gives us the pride, and some of us the reason, to log onto your servers each night and spend hours of our time holding a banner that is much more than a simple server name. It is a history that we the players have created on our own, for we have earned the right to keep our identity after over half a decade of dedication.

I am Blackgate. We are Blackgate.~Xtc Soul Dragon

Great Post!

[Mr Green.4157]

@Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:The adult in me is excited over what wvw is about to become, but the child in me is suicidal over what wvw will become.But seriously anet, I'm feeling like this is going to push the last remaining roamers from wvw. What about the players that don't want to join guilds but like playing with certain individuals in guilds? Or like to run around with certain guilds but doesnt want to join any guilds? I feel we are being forced to join guilds and alliances or get thrown into the manure pile.

I think you can use this to argue against the idea of setting a home server too. Let me try.

What about the players that don't want to join servers but like playing with certain individuals on different servers? Or like to run around with certain servers but don't want to join any one servers? I feel we are being forced to join a server or get thrown into the manure pile.

What do you know it worked.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@Xtc Soul Dragon.2067 said:I never wanted to post on these forums. After 7 years of playing Guild Wars 1, I know all too well the arrogance and vitriol and lies that get splattered around textboards. But after hearing about this thread in WvW tonight, coincidentally enough, I had to come here and share my opinion, for once.

Arena Net, this is the single most destructive decision you could do to the WvW community, and it doesn't even fix the issue that you're trying to resolve. You're going to delete 5 years of WvW history to cater to casuals and haters of a gamemode they don't understand or appreciate, for the sake of temporarily changing the line-up that will quickly result in the same complaints that you're having now. The players that only put in an hour of WvW gameplay a week will always complain about not being included, always ignoring their own lack of self-inclusion and refusing to acknowledge their own contribution while demanding the same rewards.

In your initial post you blatantly display whom your ire and dscrimination is aimed at, and that is my home server, since prerelease, of Blackgate. It's a running gag here in my server about how much Anet hates Blackgate, and we wear it as a badge of honor because we are STILL successful by our hardwork and dedication despite fighting, at some times, up to 6 servers at once. Your idea to dissolve servers for the sake of shifting WvW power about guilds instead of server populations will end in the exact same situation we're in now, and that is an alliance with mostly Blackgate members dominating the WvW field, and you'll have effectively achieved nothing but taking our name away from us.

You also introduce the worst element of all into the WvW environment, something that is protected right now by an account's home server location, and that is the human element. If only alliances with guilds can participate in high tiered WvW matches, then the decision on who gets to play in high tier WvW will come down to those few leaders of said guilds. Imperfect, biased, self-interested, prejudicial, human players. They will, without a doubt, hold their alliance's status over their individual players' heads as a cudgel (an ever-increasingly popular term these days) to force submission from their numbers in order to continue playing in a tier that they may have already spent YEARS working to achieve. Favoritism will determine who is tier 1, not skill or dedication or hours or sacrifice. It'll come down to kissing the right butt, and continue kissing that butt until this new system too fails to change the demographic you're so eager to create waves in.

I am not opposed to trying this idea, but I am fanatically opposed to having it forced onto me and my server with no recourse. Go ahead and replace the failed Edge of the Mists experiment; the lacklust rewards of that gamemode will not be missed. Do not delete 5 years of WvW rivalry and identity for shallow and foresight-lacking purposes, you as the developer do not write the history of your game, the players do. You make changes and introduce new ideas into the game world, but WE the players are the ones that experience the game, WE write the game's history, and WE decide what works, what's fun, what's exploitable, and what has got to go. WvW has been server-based since the beta weekends in 2012 (that we the masses were allowed to initially experience), and the moment you expunge that from the game is the moment that WvW ceases to have a reason to exist in a lot of our hearts and minds. Give your players choice, we've earned that. Do not take away something that gives us the pride, and some of us the reason, to log onto your servers each night and spend hours of our time holding a banner that is much more than a simple server name. It is a history that we the players have created on our own, for we have earned the right to keep our identity after over half a decade of dedication.

I am Blackgate. We are Blackgate.~Xtc Soul Dragon

Wait, isn't bg made by the same imperfect, biased, self-interested, prejudicial, human players? BG was never number 1 at the start, it was the Titan Alliance, remember? After they disbanded, BG took their remnant in, remember? I remember very clearly BG raised from some bottom tiers because massive people transfer into it. At the same time, massive people transfer into JQ and TC. Well, the start of all unbalance. So yea, imperfect, biased, self-interested, prejudicial, human players wrote the history.

[Grumpyoni.7430]

I hope this doesn't come across as hateful or anything of the sort. But I merely have some concerns regarding this change. First, I really appreciate that the devs have put a lot of thought into changing WvW (Thanks for remembering us <3) and I really hope this change can improve the current status of WvW even if only by a little. However, regarding the concerns, I mentioned earlier. I personally have full 5 guilds, all of which has different functionality, while all having different 'main' worlds that they are in. For example, my roleplay guild is in TC and my main guild is in DB. I am worried about how they would place me in a different world if my main guild decides to make it a PvX guild. But since they also do WvW on a regular basis, I do join them sometimes and does that mean we have to make a separate guild just for that? Just to WvW together? Point is I am just concerned about where people like me would be placed under in such situations, where we want to WvW with our main guild but if the guild doesn't declare their guild a WvW guild, does that mean we will be randomly placed in a new world?

[hunkamania.7561]

This needs to be done and i wouldn't listen to these blackgate bads since they can make their own alliance.