Vampiric Presence

[Obtena.7952]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@flow.6043 said:

@Abimes.9726 said:NB°°° ICD is 1 second and not 1/2 sec like tool tip says. (Auto on golems it procs every 2/3 auto when cd of staff 1 is 3/4 sec and should proc it every time.)

I can't confirm this.Nectrotic Grasp procs it every time for me and Ghastly Claws does it 3 times with its 1.75 sec channel.

@Obtena.7952 said:I think perhaps I was not being clear; the old VP scaled on # of attacks, up to 5 targets and I think it was the number of attacks that was the problem for Anet.

If that was true how come the regular Vampiric trait wasn't changed? It basically had the same values as Vamp Aura.Other classes can't proc a no-icd version of it any more often than necros, if that's what you're implying?

Bottom line:It's an irrelevant change for PvE and a nerf where it matters more, PvP.

I dunno, but this is NOT an irrelevant change for PVE, that much is certain. These traits were used with great effect in combination with minions in PVE. Now, probably much less effective.

Nobody plays this traitline in highend pve. And noone takes more than 1 minion in highend pve.

Minions arw only for lazy players that dont want to have anything to do witch challenging content

Both irrelevant; PVE is NOT only meta play in high end PVE encounters; if that's your mindset, continue to be VERY disappointed with every single balance patch.

The thing is, they seemed to buff this with (arguably) high end pve in mind. That is to say it is only a buff vs single targets, which is generally what high end pve is.

I would say the change is just a move away from a multiple hit advantage, like what you get from sporting a minion army for instance. Frankly, it's a little confusing ... they say it's to make it more inline with auras from other classes. I can't even think of what that refers to. What are these auras?

[Lahmia.2193]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@flow.6043 said:

@Abimes.9726 said:NB°°° ICD is 1 second and not 1/2 sec like tool tip says. (Auto on golems it procs every 2/3 auto when cd of staff 1 is 3/4 sec and should proc it every time.)

I can't confirm this.Nectrotic Grasp procs it every time for me and Ghastly Claws does it 3 times with its 1.75 sec channel.

@Obtena.7952 said:I think perhaps I was not being clear; the old VP scaled on # of attacks, up to 5 targets and I think it was the number of attacks that was the problem for Anet.

If that was true how come the regular Vampiric trait wasn't changed? It basically had the same values as Vamp Aura.Other classes can't proc a no-icd version of it any more often than necros, if that's what you're implying?

Bottom line:It's an irrelevant change for PvE and a nerf where it matters more, PvP.

I dunno, but this is NOT an irrelevant change for PVE, that much is certain. These traits were used with great effect in combination with minions in PVE. Now, probably much less effective.

Nobody plays this traitline in highend pve. And noone takes more than 1 minion in highend pve.

Minions arw only for lazy players that dont want to have anything to do witch challenging content

Both irrelevant; PVE is NOT only meta play in high end PVE encounters; if that's your mindset, continue to be VERY disappointed with every single balance patch.

The thing is, they seemed to buff this with (arguably) high end pve in mind. That is to say it is only a buff vs single targets, which is generally what high end pve is.

I would say the change is just a move away from a multiple hit advantage, like what you get from sporting a minion army for instance. Frankly, it's a little confusing ... they say it's to make it more inline with auras from other classes. I can't even think of what that refers to. What are these auras?

Empower Allies from warrior, Spotter from ranger, Pinpoint Distribution from engi, Assassin's Presence from rev and Strength in Numbers from guardian.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Maybe, but the healing is also pathetic and not worthwhile. Heck, the healing for most builds went DOWN today because of the ICD.

Honest, I didn't catch the ICD, which sucks ... but without it, there was no way they could reasonably give it higher values anyways. In otherwords, if there was no ICD, it would have stayed pathetic forever; with the ICD, there is a path forward for them to at least

consider

changing it.

Except because of the ICD vamp presence is now significantly lower healing and lower damage at the same time. The only time the new vamp presence is better than the old is in a purely single target fight with a low attack rate weapon. In any other circumstance the new vamp presence is dramatically worse to a large degree.

New vamp presence is basically trash outside of punching the parsing golem.

Heck, new Vampiric Presence is only a buff on a single target before you factor in Quickness. Once you do, it falls behind. Unless everyone is on Reaper Greatsword, that is. Weapons that actually get used almost all end up having an attack rate of faster than 1 hit/.5 seconds on the auto, but once you factor in rolling damage ticks from non-auto skills, you get way above the necessary threshold.

[Anchoku.8142]

My Necro is now a mule in completely charge of crafting, though I did reconfigure it as a power MM.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Anchoku.8142 said:My Necro is now a mule in completely charge of crafting, though I did reconfigure it as a power MM.

Mine is currently loaded up with +magic find and is sitting next to the lucky envelope merchant in DR. I've been tossing Unidentified Gear and Lucky envelopes into shared inventory slots. I've been using my Ranger instead.

[Catchyfx.5768]

@Anchoku.8142 said:My Necro is now a mule in completely charge of crafting, though I did reconfigure it as a power MM.

Same same :D Bank character for next few months

[Boulder.3589]

Haven't tested but if ICD is shared across minions and making minion lifesteal less effective, maybe they were trying to nerf afk farming minion necros? Because this wasn't an issue at high end.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

ICD is individual per person with the buff.

To clarify, Vampiric (the minor trait) saw no change this patch and continues to not have an ICD.

[Obtena.7952]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@flow.6043 said:

@Abimes.9726 said:NB°°° ICD is 1 second and not 1/2 sec like tool tip says. (Auto on golems it procs every 2/3 auto when cd of staff 1 is 3/4 sec and should proc it every time.)

I can't confirm this.Nectrotic Grasp procs it every time for me and Ghastly Claws does it 3 times with its 1.75 sec channel.

@Obtena.7952 said:I think perhaps I was not being clear; the old VP scaled on # of attacks, up to 5 targets and I think it was the number of attacks that was the problem for Anet.

If that was true how come the regular Vampiric trait wasn't changed? It basically had the same values as Vamp Aura.Other classes can't proc a no-icd version of it any more often than necros, if that's what you're implying?

Bottom line:It's an irrelevant change for PvE and a nerf where it matters more, PvP.

I dunno, but this is NOT an irrelevant change for PVE, that much is certain. These traits were used with great effect in combination with minions in PVE. Now, probably much less effective.

Nobody plays this traitline in highend pve. And noone takes more than 1 minion in highend pve.

Minions arw only for lazy players that dont want to have anything to do witch challenging content

Both irrelevant; PVE is NOT only meta play in high end PVE encounters; if that's your mindset, continue to be VERY disappointed with every single balance patch.

The thing is, they seemed to buff this with (arguably) high end pve in mind. That is to say it is only a buff vs single targets, which is generally what high end pve is.

I would say the change is just a move away from a multiple hit advantage, like what you get from sporting a minion army for instance. Frankly, it's a little confusing ... they say it's to make it more inline with auras from other classes. I can't even think of what that refers to. What are these auras?

Empower Allies from warrior, Spotter from ranger, Pinpoint Distribution from engi, Assassin's Presence from rev and Strength in Numbers from guardian.

Are those things referred to as Auras? OH, I didn't know. I don't see how VP is more inline with those thing now that it was before /shrug.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Players (and devs) refer to them as auras, although it's important to note that the game itself has them labelled as something different. Runes of radiance don't increase the duration of the buff they give, for example.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

If the ICD was to where you could hit 5 targets (once each) every 1/2 seconds then i would have considered it a buff. But since it's 1 target every 1/2 second and not even like 1/4 second it's a nerf.

Can't sustain and survive as well when you gain less hp on a non healer build.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

This change has resulted in significantly less sustain and damage in multi-target situations and for skills/classes with multi-hit skills and quick animations.

This change is a flat out nerf everywhere except for a raid boss. Terrible implementation and made Blood Magic worse everywhere but golem tests and 1337 raids.

[Lahmia.2193]

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:This change has resulted in significantly less sustain and damage in multi-target situations and for skills/classes with multi-hit skills and quick animations.

This change is a flat out nerf everywhere except for a raid boss. Terrible implementation and made Blood Magic worse everywhere but golem tests and 1337 raids.

And those 1337 raids won't be taking blood necros to begin with, so its an all round nerf if we are being realistic.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:This change has resulted in significantly less sustain and damage in multi-target situations and for skills/classes with multi-hit skills and quick animations.

This change is a flat out nerf everywhere except for a raid boss. Terrible implementation and made Blood Magic worse everywhere but golem tests and 1337 raids.

And those 1337 raids won't be taking blood necros to begin with, so its an all round nerf if we are being realistic.

Yup, spot on.

[Brujeria.7536]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:The intention is good, but the practical use in game is not. First of all the only spec that can take advantage of this is power necro. The healing is to minimal to make much of a difference on scourge support builds.

Power necro has way too low dps. Core necro does not hit often enough to make good use of that bonus in shroud, you waste the icd. Power reaper is better, yet a big problem of this is that most tools (wells, axe 2, GS3 etc) hit very often and you want to cast all of them together BEFORE entering shroud to increase the damage, which gets crippled by the ICD.

I concur. I happen to be running around in PvE on full apothecary scourge necro (everything asc/legendary save exotic staff). The heal part is 83 without shroud, 165 in it, and that's with 1.5k healing power on me..

What kind of PvE? And as i stated, the idea is good, but this is just subpar to any other source of healing / regeneration, you and your allies require to hit something, twice a second, while you are in shroud, to get the full effect. Regeneration as a boon, or passive heals like auramancer in water is far superior, as you can get healed in every scenario. Just look at how gated this skill is: 1. an internal cooldown so that burst skills heal you less, 2. effectiveness gated behind shroud, 3. shroud gated behind cooldown AND lifeforce 4. lifeforce gated behind few skills that generate it. 5. The trait is in direct conflict with another healing trait in the same line and trait tier, 6. and the scaling is arguably bad, while 7. still affecting only 5 targets while similar skills affect 10.

For all of these drawbacks compared to the easy access healing over time from other classes i feel that they could tripple the numbers and the trait still wouldnt be OP.

[Arzurag.7506]

Someone suggested it already and I would propose the same.Let Vampiric-presence deal damage based on a percentage of the enemy´s health, 2% or maybe 3%.In addition differ between different mob-types so that the damage is not getting out of hand.And remove the cd, as long as this heal-source does not grant sustainable 1000 health/sec, it´s not op.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Arzurag.7506 said:Someone suggested it already and I would propose the same.Let Vampiric-presence deal damage based on a percentage of the enemy´s health, 2% or maybe 3%.In addition differ between different mob-types so that the damage is not getting out of hand.And remove the cd, as long as this heal-source does not grant sustainable 1000 health/sec, it´s not op.

I'm pretty sure a staff elementalist autoattacking in water attunment can reach 1000 health per second for up to 5 allies easily... does this mean it's OP?

[Arzurag.7506]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Arzurag.7506 said:Someone suggested it already and I would propose the same.Let Vampiric-presence deal damage based on a percentage of the enemy´s health, 2% or maybe 3%.In addition differ between different mob-types so that the damage is not getting out of hand.And remove the cd, as long as this heal-source does not grant sustainable 1000 health/sec, it´s not op.

I'm pretty sure a staff elementalist autoattacking in water attunment can reach 1000 health per second for up to 5 allies easily... does this mean it's OP?

Tell me, is it ? I just said that 1000hp/sec is not op thus removing the cd would not make this ability op, neither in damage nor in its healing power.

[Morde.3158]

Not sure about pve but the only thing I found this trait is good for adding up life steal procs lol.

[Orangensaft.7139]

They maybe dont want to make it no cooldown at all again...

But they should at least make it 0.5 second PER UNIQUE TARGET

Or else its just a nerf for any fight with more than 1 enemy...

[Sombra.3246]

@Lahmia.2193 said:at 2767 power (full ascended zerker gear, greatsword and like 6 +5 power infusions with sig of spite), it does 124 damage and 246 in shroud. Haven't been able to fully test yet though.

Does that apply to all friendly players in range of the Necro?

[Lahmia.2193]

@Sombra.3246 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:at 2767 power (full ascended zerker gear, greatsword and like 6 +5 power infusions with sig of spite), it does 124 damage and 246 in shroud. Haven't been able to fully test yet though.

Does that apply to all friendly players in range of the Necro?

I can't say anything for certain but I'd guess it is all based off of your own power/heal power. And it's up to 5 allies, like all trait auras.

[Subli.8217]

if they want to keep ICD at last make it 1/4 sec like some of the ranger/soulbeast skills and traits

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Sombra.3246 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:at 2767 power (full ascended zerker gear, greatsword and like 6 +5 power infusions with sig of spite), it does 124 damage and 246 in shroud. Haven't been able to fully test yet though.

Does that apply to all friendly players in range of the Necro?

I can't say anything for certain but I'd guess it is all based off of your own power/heal power. And it's up to 5 allies, like all trait auras.

Vampiric Presence uses the Necro's stats on everyone the buff applies to.

[Patrick.2987]

So if you sit in shroud your mates leech double values aswell?