Revert Impossible Odds NERF

[BeepBoopBap.2840]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@BeepBoopBap.2840 said:Removing quickness in favor of an extra strike that crits for like 700 and has a global ICD of 1/4 sec (I think) is just bad.

In PvE group content i.e fractals&raids you always have perma quickness so shiro actually got buffed for PvE.

I said above I care 0 about PvE balance.

[Manpag.6421]

I am thinking that Anet may change the ICD to per target in the future anyway, in line with Shiro's other abilities. Whether it was an oversight or that they wanted to wait and see how the new version of IO plays out, though, I'm not sure.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@BeepBoopBap.2840 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@BeepBoopBap.2840 said:Removing quickness in favor of an extra strike that crits for like 700 and has a global ICD of 1/4 sec (I think) is just bad.

In PvE group content i.e fractals&raids you always have perma quickness so shiro actually got buffed for PvE.

I said above I care 0 about PvE balance.

But your not the only player and PvP is not the only gamemode.Rev has new sources of quickness and with quickness you do more dmg with impossible odds in comparison to pre patch.

@"Manpag.6421" said:I am thinking that Anet may change the ICD to per target in the future anyway, in line with Shiro's other abilities. Whether it was an oversight or that they wanted to wait and see how the new version of IO plays out, though, I'm not sure.

Looks like it is just a similar iteration if Soulbeast elite "one wolf pack".Its just weaker dmg wise and cant be shared but the ICD is the same, probably to prevent bugs or huge dmg spikes.

[Buran.3796]

The changes in Impossible Odds are particulary bad for the use of the hammer in WvW and PvP for the follow reasons:

• Before, you could use IO to enhance your hammer attack speed and get advantage of hitting heavy and frequently at max range.

• Now that the quickness has been disabled in IO you have two new sources: one is the 3 seconds after hitting a target with Phase Traversal, but this one is counterproductive with the nature of the hammer, because most of the time you don't want to use it at cqc but taking advantange eroding the HP from your targets at distance. The other source is the five seconds granted on weapon swap by the new trait Brutality (which also removes stability on hit). It can be argued that in SOME stages Brutality can b moree useful (like in WvW raids), but must be remarked that Brutality itself doesn't inflict any kind of cc, and chosing it comes with the oportunity cost of ditching Swift Termination (a +20% damage increase against targets with less than its 50% HP).

  I find ST much stronger in PvP/roaming so for me the change is a net loss: it let me to chose between doing less damage than before using ST or doing much less damage than before with Brutality but being able to easily remove any stab from other players (which again, is more useful for large group fights than in a Coquest/duel context).

[torben.1532]

I mean, rev got nerfed in every single Balance patch since Hot Launch in Terms of pvp and wvw, it's a shame that anet tries to make power rev viable in pve, yet fail at this (it's still garbage) and in Addition they screw it over in pvp and wvw.

[Fade to Black.7042]

@torben.1532 said:I mean, rev got nerfed in every single Balance patch since Hot Launch in Terms of pvp and wvw, it's a shame that anet tries to make power rev viable in pve, yet fail at this (it's still garbage) and in Addition they screw it over in pvp and wvw.

Agree, its a nerf, and in pve still garbage, not meta in raids.

[Sorem.9157]

Past balance patches made me want to quit revenant. This one made me want to quit the game.

[BeepBoopBap.2840]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@BeepBoopBap.2840 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@BeepBoopBap.2840 said:Removing quickness in favor of an extra strike that crits for like 700 and has a global ICD of 1/4 sec (I think) is just bad.

In PvE group content i.e fractals&raids you always have perma quickness so shiro actually got buffed for PvE.

I said above I care 0 about PvE balance.

But your not the only player and PvP is not the only gamemode.

Balancing for PvE is literally the death of any competitive balance in this game. So fuck PvE. "Why can't we use condition builds for PvE!" And Anet proceeds to make every condition stackable thus throwing us into condition metas in WvW and to a lesser extent PvP for YEARS.

You don't need balance changes to fucking stack and button mash the same raids every week.

Is that nice enough for you "forum moderator"?

[SneakyTouchy.6043]

The change essentially makes it inferior to jalis hammers. Now, instead of having the benefit of lasting quickness to effect all skills (making it good for fractal content), you'd just run jalis. It's the same thing but provides damage reduction and healing.

It really was a stupid change.

[Sorem.9157]

I really wish we could get a Dev's insight on this.

[Sereath.1428]

It also now has inconsistencies with the Superspeed part, this was not the case before this patch... So the new lower upkeep point cost did absolutely nothingAlready submitted a bug report ingame, I suggest that you all do the same because this is an actual bug.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

@Manpag.6421 said:They've given us 2 new sources of quickness though, so it's still bonus damage...

Yeah and we have to give up Swift Termination to get it. I love Brutality trait but it is now much harder to burst down some sneaky classes.

[Jukens.1693]

This heavily nerfed rev in WvW because it made hammer rev more boring to use. One of the worst ways to nerf a class, making them boring. You really can't hammer auto without quickness. Please put quickness back to impossible odds.

Also no additional condi cleanse was given to the class, which is desperately needed.

[Burn.5401]

Bump. Revert the change nobody asked for in PvP/WvW. If you're gonna parade skill splits between game modes in your patch notes then this one should be on your priority list.

[narcx.3570]

@Manpag.6421 said:They've given us 2 new sources of quickness though, so it's still bonus damage...

I'd be very surprised if Impossible Odd's extra hit out DPS's Swift Termination... Or even Assassin's Annihlation for that matter. In fact, I don't think the extra hits even out dps the old IO 10% modifier (maybe in PvP where it was only 5%.)

Even in PvE, you still wouldn't take Shiro in group play... Jalis Hammers do a lot more dps than IO now (it was at least close before with the old 10% IO modifier) and with the Icerazor buff, Kalla spirits beat Shiro too.

At this point, it should be pretty clear that the IO change was intended as a nerf to Hammer revs in WvW, since that's about the only thing it accomplished, and there was considerable QQ about them there. Giving quickness to PT/Brutality was just a way to try and (unsuccessfully) still gives assassin rev's a route to quickness since they pretty much HAVE to have it to stand even a chance of landing any of their sword skills in pvp.

Personally, I'm getting a little tired of WvW balance leaking into sPvP... It's like, a game mode that is ALWAYS 5v5 is being affected by trying to balance a game mode where people basically REFUSE to fight in even numbers. It's silly.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

Yeah I don't even play revenant anymore. Why play hard mode when everyone is on easy mode on every other class.

The IO change, after playing around with it for a month, is just dumb. Straight up nerf, in both single target and cleave DPS. The only aspect that it's a "buff" is that we can run away with superspeed for 2 extra seconds before dying anyway.

Should've known it was end times when they stupidly removed Equilibrium. This class has no direction at Anet, and if I didn't already have a character slot for each class I would've deleted my revenant.

[Fade to Black.7042]

Also bumb for this to be reverted, stopped playing my main rev after this nerf.

Not only this affected rev in pvp/wvw affected open world and the "feeling" of a quick character.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@"Fade to Black.7042" said:Also bumb for this to be reverted, stopped playing my main rev after this nerf.

Not only this affected rev in pvp/wvw affected open world and the "feeling" of a quick character.

Instead of reverting it back, id say they should add a trait that increases quickness uptime. The shiro trait could be changed so you get quickness instead of might for example.Or just a traitable IO that gives you quickness.

[Carighan.6758]

@Jukens.1693 said:This heavily nerfed rev in WvW because it made hammer rev more boring to use. One of the worst ways to nerf a class, making them boring. You really can't hammer auto without quickness. Please put quickness back to impossible odds.

Why can't you hammer-AA without quickness? The animation isn't interrupted by movement and it just happens 50% slower without Quickness. So... same as any other ranged AA other than Mesmer Scepter, then?

[Rym.1469]

I'd much rather see IO keeping on-demand quickness and PT debuffing the target (and enemies in path) with increased damage taken (or similar effect) for a few seconds burst window.

[Buran.3796]

@Carighan.6758 said:

Why can't you hammer-AA without quickness? The animation isn't interrupted by movement and it just happens 50% slower without Quickness. So... same as any other ranged AA other than Mesmer Scepter, then?

Sword, mace and staff auto attacks in 1/2 second cast time; there's a huge difference in the performance of hammer before and after the Impossible Odds slaughtering.

[Carighan.6758]

Ah, sorry, misunderstood. I thought you meant that Quickness would affect the different AAs differently. You're of course correct that Impossible Odds is heavily favoring fast AA weapons now.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Rym.1469 said:I'd much rather see IO keeping on-demand quickness and PT debuffing the target (and enemies in path) with increased damage taken (or similar effect) for a few seconds burst window.

I want everything you said but instead the two PT unblockable attacks steal or strip one boon each.

[narcx.3570]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Rym.1469 said:I'd much rather see IO keeping on-demand quickness and PT debuffing the target (and enemies in path) with increased damage taken (or similar effect) for a few seconds burst window.

I want everything you said but instead the two PT unblockable attacks steal or strip one boon each.

My dream PT buff is to make those two unblockable attacks also penetrate Barrier effects. It'd be a nice unique thing to give rev's and take a big step towards making scourges hate us as much as we hate them.

[BABE.6384]

That idea above of swapping the extra burst dmg to be on PT and IO gets its quickness back is a great suggestion!!I really dislike the loss of instant quickness for condi and hybrid builds. No longer having the utility to quickness cast ANYTHING, is huge... it was a giant part of being able to work around commonly interrupted skills. <<<Headshotted heals, UA, and staff 4 say hello

On the train of thought of getting interrupted by thieves.. their stolen Essence Sap is way overtuned now compared to how much Revenant has been toned down.I understood it hitting that hard when thieves were terrified of revenants, but at this point its excessive and just another thing that ticks the Rev/Thief duel a few notches farther towards thieves always dominating revs.Also the slow duration is BROKEN. It says 1 sec when you have the skill bundled on thief, and throws 3 seconds on your target -.-

@XxsdgxX.8109 said:It also now has inconsistencies with the Superspeed part, this was not the case before this patch... So the new lower upkeep point cost did absolutely nothingAlready submitted a bug report ingame, I suggest that you all do the same because this is an actual bug.

I have hardly seen any noise made about this game breaking bug whatsoever.I was just about to make my own thread about it with videos actually.... might still do it.