PvP/WvW Skill Split Release

[samo.1054]

Speaking from a WvW player perspective, guild raiding 4 times a week - these are steps in the right direction, but it won't fix the ridiculous ranged AoE boonrip CC spam that WvW has become and continues to do so ever since the release of HoT, while the power creep started with Trait system redesign(along with stat rework) even before HoT release.

Everything instantly melts, gets chain CCd, boonstripped and feared for eternity in WvW nowadays. Look at some old videos of guild raids from before HoT and realize how much more enjoyable the game was back then. Try to imagine how a new player feels in WvW at the current state. They won't stay to play, it's too frustrating.

Shortly describing the problem that we're having: ~3 years of insane power creep.

[Nimon.7840]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

Arenanet, please read:

I'll state my opinions mostly from an spvp point of view, while still taking in to mind how it effects wvw and pve. But first it is important to point out what the problems are that the intra-class dynamic faces at this point in time in spvp. This is not only my opinion, but also the majority opinion of players playing platinum + at least from what I understand:

• Mesmer builds are too strong. There is too much DPS pressure here for how much survivability and utility is present.
• Spellbreakers specifically, not Berserker or Core, are too strong. This is mainly due to the power and utility behind Full Counter.
• Druids specifically, not Soulbeast or Core, are too strong. This is 100% due to Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow.
• Firebrand and Scourge are still mandatory choices for 5 man play and generally increase the win rates of any team, even in ranked or unranked, the more of them you have in your team. I wouldn't say they are "over powered" but the utility and function they bring into the dynamic of conquest matches or even wvw squads, is just more heavily evolved than anything else in the game right now. This effect becomes exponentially screwed up the more Firebrands and Scourges that are present on the same team together. They completely break the idea of not having a holy trinity. Firebrand and Scourge is the holy trinity at this point. Other classes/builds do not compare to the importance of these two in competitive play, spvp or wvw.
• The above problems result in the ultimate problem which is, very little class/build diversity in competitive play. Other classes aren't so kitten that they are unplayable but none of them are able to compete in viability with Mesmer based specs/Spellbreaker/Druid/Firebrand/Scourge.

How do I feel about the proposed changes? Well I think there are shortcuts and more simple ways to fix these problems that exist in spvp/wvw, without dabbling in so much change across the board on every character:

• Mesmers
  - Tone down the damage. It doesn't need to be neutered but it really needs a cut in its damage. However this is achieved, is up to the balance team.
• Spellbreakers
  - Full Counter needs nerfing. Nothing else needs to be touched! just Full Counter. However this is achieved, go for it balance team.
• Druids
  - There are way too many nerfs being directed into the wrong places on this one. I main Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast in every game mode and I tell you no lie when I say that the problem with Druid is completely within the two traits Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow. This is THE ENTIRE base of the Druid's survivability. Slightly nerfing these two traits wouldn't really effect pve and wvw play and would be better options than the enormous cuts proposed in the OP statement. Please read the previous thread I had opened on this topic as it goes into much deeper detail, with community feedback.
  https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27812/druid-post-2-6-2018-patch-druid-players-give-feedback/p1
  - If you do not read the thread, the point being is: To make Druid Clarity cleanse 3 condis per second, for 4 seconds upon activation instead of immediate 13 condi cleanse and Celestial Shadow's stealth/super speed should be reduced from 3s to 2s. This is more than enough of a nerf to make Druids much easier to kill. Nerfing them too much, will result in Druid losing all viability in any competitive setting.
• Firebrands & Scourges
  - Honestly, and a lot of people may disagree with this, I don't think these classes need any nerfing. Maybe they need a bit of reallocation to where power lies within the specs or how healing/protections need to be rotated to achieve high end results but they do not need nerfing.

About holy trinity & niches - If anything, I can say to the balance team that there actually needs to be a holy trinity so to say. Every class/specialization should be a stapled kind of gameplay and role within any group. I believe it would be healthy for the game at this point. It also would help with overall balance because, if one class is the stapled boon removal guy "As example" nothing else can ever really replace him, despite how much he is nerfed. But when every class can do every job, naturally it will result in some top 3 statistically superior selections and

balance will never be achieved.

I think it would be a good idea, to focus on giving core/hot/pof specializtions there own niches that only they can really do. This would make every specialization irreplaceable and always the best at what they are designed to do. Firebrand, Scourge, Spellbreaker, Druid, Thieves are great examples of this competitively. Mesmer should be in that list but Mesmer is better used as an example of a class that can do too much and is too good at everything. Pve wise, you have Druids and Chronos that are the only distinguished roles and the rest are DPS transparently based. How to change that? No idea, probably a lot harder to do than it is competitively. In competitive settings you have more roles that classes can specialize in such as: Team Support, Side Node Monkey Bunker, Bruiser "many subtypes within this", Decap +1 DPS, Point Nuker "Which historically doesn't work well in conquest but works great in wvw backlines".

Oh and PS:

1. Barrier killing all critical hits is questionable and needs to be reviewed.
2. Leave Thief alone. Stop it, stop nerfing it. It doesn't need nerfing.
3. Please be careful who's feedback you listen to, if this is truly a patch dedicated towards competitive areas in the game.

I agree with this. But not with thief. In wvw it will need a huge nerf. Right now, a thief jumps at you deals like 17k dmg in an instant and moves out unharmed, waits 5 seconds and does the same again.And even if you hit it with a shade for example, it just easy consicleanses everything

Hmmm. If been hit for 17k bs by a deadeye with full malice (7) and he was full zerk. Can't see how else they can do that

Well that was a dagger/something thief. The steal 2kdmg,backstab 9k, lightningstrike 1k and an autoattack.

[XECOR.2814]

HAHAHHA REAPER NERFS HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA VERY GOOD BALANCE TEAM. NERFS TO PLAGUE SIGNET HAHAHAHAHA ONLY DEFENSE ON THE WHOLE CLASS APPARENTLY IT WAS OP HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

[Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046]

@BaLzA.8902 said:

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

Traits

• Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
• Last Gasp: Increased the cooldown from 50 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP only

O_oWhat the hell is that ?

It is showing they ran out of ideas.

[XECOR.2814]

@Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046 said:

@BaLzA.8902 said:

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

Traits

• Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
• Last Gasp: Increased the cooldown from 50 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP only

O_oWhat the hell is that ?

It is showing they ran out of ideas.

Lol the only signet that people used is getting nerfed, i can't help but laugh. Can we fire people who are responsible for handling necro related decisions and get the people who work on mesmer, warrior etc??

[CeeJ.3752]

Also you killing the power of spell breaker and holo. But not the power of mesmer? Power mesmer is killing it in PvP right now. I don't understand.

[Toron.4856]

@Mthe mystery.4615 said:I wont lie, Warrior is in a very good spot right now, but some of these changes are awful. If you're going to kill some of the traits warrior uses then just remove it completely and add a new Trait. IMO passive procs for stun breaks should be gone for every single class as it offers no mechanical skill. But 90 second cooldown for a 2 second endure pain? Are you freaking crazy? a 50 second Increase to Balanced Stance? LOL!? This just adds more useless traits for warriors. And Increasing the cooldown of aura slicer defeats the purpose of Fast hands and the point of it is to swap faster to use the skills at our disposal at will. Decrease the damage by some but dont increase the cooldown. And dagger nerfs? Are you serious? IS this just an early April fools joke? This is the funniest thing I've seen in a while. Exactly why I haven't played PvP the last 3 Season competitively.... Lord help us all....

thank you sir! thats literally it.

war certainly is in a good spot but its not god tier like it was on PoF release.

War legit does what hes made for. Push far, do 1v1s or troll outnumbered. pretty much the same role as druid just that druid also has support potential.

If ur taking the damage from war its gonna end up as a boring bunker. good at holding points but no damage output. Like a ventari rev or something. So if u wanna nerf sb, nerf the sustain. You already increased counter CD, and now u are going to increase the passives to 90 secs. THAT is already a huge change to the sustain. BUT 2 secs on a 90 secs cd is just insane. Compare that to druids stone signet lol... anyways if u rly wanna have the passives at 90 secs, why dont u change them into a new trait? and incase u dont want to change the skills at all, leave out the other warrior nerfs?! damage nerfs to sb are not the way to go, they are only the way to make spellbreker unviable and drop out of the meta.

With those changes, core war is gonna be stronger than sb. But honestly, core war is so much more squishy than sb. and everything that core war does is done better by a different class... so yeah it wont really play a role in the meta. also considering u nerfed Might makes right so much.

btw, the classes are more or less balanced INSIDE the meta. hence u shouldnt be nerfing some classes less than others. But for some reason thief is also getting some buffs and mesmer is almost untouched while sb is nerfed by far the most... at least keep spellbreaker nerfs on pair with those of druid. But no u r nerfing every single spellbreaker skill that is relevant for pvp??? dagger aa, dagger 2, dagger 3, dagger f1, FC, break enchantments, featherfoot grace, defy pain and last stand? theres nothing more u could possibly nerf LOL

Anyways, if u really feel like killing spellbreaker, please please please make Berserker viable again.

I highly doubt that Berserker is gonna be relevant in PvP again so yeah, please dont overnerf spellbreaker.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

Since power creep is being eliminated, can you also eliminate condi creep? The only thing a power build has to attempt, and I stress attempt, to counter a condi build is to try and out dps it. Since there are a lot of power nerfs happening, condi builds are going to get even stronger.

[feanor.4605]

CAN WE PLEASE SHOW LOVE TO REVENANT AND ELE FOR THE LOVE LF BABY JEEZUS

[feanor.4605]

And stop with Mesmer... just stop... nerf that class please... nerf it harder than you think you can because if you call that a nerf on Mesmer you guys as a company need to try harder or play the game

[OriOri.8724]

@Aza.2105 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Psilence.2859 said:but removing Demolisher Amulet could also be a possible solution.

That isn't really the solution. Since no other profession is getting this much out of demolisher amulet. What anet needs to do is make each profession have a different set of amulets. That way they could easily remove one that makes the class op instead of removing it for everyone.

This isn't that practical though, as the list for each class would have to be updated with each balance patch depending on how builds changed.

I'm sure that isn't hard to do.

Its not a matter of how hard it is or isn't to do, its a matter of how practical it is. Its not practical to make the Devs remember to not only update this list constantly, but test all the amulets available for each class with each balance patch to determine if one is overperforming or not (and that is quite a bit of work), not to mention testing the rest of the amulets to determine if its ok to let the class use that amulet again. Plus, it still doesn't actually address the problem itself, so it would end up a waste of time more than anything else. This problem will only be solved when ANet balances every class to the point where they cannot take a build with both high damage and high sustain, or where they cannot take a build with near infinite sustain

[Astery.7914]

Talking about WvW part.

Add 1-2 sec of Revealed on skills when you precast it in stealth. Make Backstab unblockable to compensate this change.

If you gonna get rid of oneshots, first stop nerf d/p thief brawler nature and force it to play zerk assassin signet bound build, wich has almost zero counterplay. Shadow Shot is okay now, why change it? D/p thieves using it for mobility, not for damage.

For Ranger - I like Signet of Stone changes, but don't like idea of increase Avatar's cd on wvw. Healing druid already worse than any support/healing class on wvw, signet nerf will be enough. Better take a look on Soulbeast damage, with marauder/scholar gear merged with Ferocious pet Marksmanship/Surv Soulbeast can oneshot marauder thief (18.6k hp) with Rapid Fire + One Wolf Pack without any might or fury. With Sic Em you can do it even without One Wolf Pack. And that's all while soulbeast have 11sec immunity from power damage, 4 sec of unblockable attacks every 10 sec, very good uptime of protection and awesome condi cleance, thanks to surv traitline and soulbeast heal. 5.6k unblockable AA and 2.1k per Rapid Fire shot from 1500 isn't very healthy.

Scourge damage already isn't a problem. Problem is in scourge stacking and barriers sharing. Nerf it in this direction, leave thier damage alone. Revert Resistance converting to Immobilize change.

If you want to nerf revenant CoR damage, compensate it somehow with increase damage on other hammer's skills.

If you want to reduce Holo damage, give it source of stability in return or decent condi cleanse.

For mesmer, change Shatter Storm for double Cry of Frustration. Power mesmer was okay without double wrack, you just opened the way for all no-skill shatter spammers. Condi mesmer was nerfed hard, and this change may bring them in line without changes on confusion.I'm okay with Exhaustion mechanic, but maybe 4 sec is too much. Daredavil with Brawler's Tenacity traited can get flat endurance from Channaled Vigor (15 per pulse, 45 total), 10 from Bandit's Defence, and 50 from Signet of Agility. Mesmer don't have source of flat endurance, only vigor boon.Give condi specs some love - rework Scepter ambush attack, that's just not usable and weak on wvw. Staff ambush attack is good, but don't want to work on any uneven terrain.Increase cooldown between uses of Mantra of Distraction.Reduce Phantasmal Disenchanter damage, it's just enormous now.

[YourFriendMarvin.4127]

Make Rocket Boots a stun break and compensate by increasing Recharge on it plz

[Vagrant.7206]

@YourFriendMarvin.4127 said:Make Rocket Boots a stun break and compensate by increasing Recharge on it plz

We could also use evade frames on rifle leap and rocket boots.

[Solori.6025]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

Arenanet, please read:

I'll state my opinions mostly from an spvp point of view, while still taking in to mind how it effects wvw and pve. But first it is important to point out what the problems are that the intra-class dynamic faces at this point in time in spvp. This is not only my opinion, but also the majority opinion of players playing platinum + at least from what I understand:

• Mesmer builds are too strong. There is too much DPS pressure here for how much survivability and utility is present.
• Spellbreakers specifically, not Berserker or Core, are too strong. This is mainly due to the power and utility behind Full Counter.
• Druids specifically, not Soulbeast or Core, are too strong. This is 100% due to Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow.
• Firebrand and Scourge are still mandatory choices for 5 man play and generally increase the win rates of any team, even in ranked or unranked, the more of them you have in your team. I wouldn't say they are "over powered" but the utility and function they bring into the dynamic of conquest matches or even wvw squads, is just more heavily evolved than anything else in the game right now. This effect becomes exponentially screwed up the more Firebrands and Scourges that are present on the same team together. They completely break the idea of not having a holy trinity. Firebrand and Scourge is the holy trinity at this point. Other classes/builds do not compare to the importance of these two in competitive play, spvp or wvw.
• The above problems result in the ultimate problem which is, very little class/build diversity in competitive play. Other classes aren't so kitten that they are unplayable but none of them are able to compete in viability with Mesmer based specs/Spellbreaker/Druid/Firebrand/Scourge.

How do I feel about the proposed changes? Well I think there are shortcuts and more simple ways to fix these problems that exist in spvp/wvw, without dabbling in so much change across the board on every character:

• Mesmers
  - Tone down the damage. It doesn't need to be neutered but it really needs a cut in its damage. However this is achieved, is up to the balance team.
• Spellbreakers
  - Full Counter needs nerfing. Nothing else needs to be touched! just Full Counter. However this is achieved, go for it balance team.
• Druids
  - There are way too many nerfs being directed into the wrong places on this one. I main Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast in every game mode and I tell you no lie when I say that the problem with Druid is completely within the two traits Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow. This is THE ENTIRE base of the Druid's survivability. Slightly nerfing these two traits wouldn't really effect pve and wvw play and would be better options than the enormous cuts proposed in the OP statement. Please read the previous thread I had opened on this topic as it goes into much deeper detail, with community feedback.
  https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27812/druid-post-2-6-2018-patch-druid-players-give-feedback/p1
  - If you do not read the thread, the point being is: To make Druid Clarity cleanse 3 condis per second, for 4 seconds upon activation instead of immediate 13 condi cleanse and Celestial Shadow's stealth/super speed should be reduced from 3s to 2s. This is more than enough of a nerf to make Druids much easier to kill. Nerfing them too much, will result in Druid losing all viability in any competitive setting.
• Firebrands & Scourges
  - Honestly, and a lot of people may disagree with this, I don't think these classes need any nerfing. Maybe they need a bit of reallocation to where power lies within the specs or how healing/protections need to be rotated to achieve high end results but they do not need nerfing.

About holy trinity & niches - If anything, I can say to the balance team that there actually needs to be a holy trinity so to say. Every class/specialization should be a stapled kind of gameplay and role within any group. I believe it would be healthy for the game at this point. It also would help with overall balance because, if one class is the stapled boon removal guy "As example" nothing else can ever really replace him, despite how much he is nerfed. But when every class can do every job, naturally it will result in some top 3 statistically superior selections and

balance will never be achieved.

I think it would be a good idea, to focus on giving core/hot/pof specializtions there own niches that only they can really do. This would make every specialization irreplaceable and always the best at what they are designed to do. Firebrand, Scourge, Spellbreaker, Druid, Thieves are great examples of this competitively. Mesmer should be in that list but Mesmer is better used as an example of a class that can do too much and is too good at everything. Pve wise, you have Druids and Chronos that are the only distinguished roles and the rest are DPS transparently based. How to change that? No idea, probably a lot harder to do than it is competitively. In competitive settings you have more roles that classes can specialize in such as: Team Support, Side Node Monkey Bunker, Bruiser "many subtypes within this", Decap +1 DPS, Point Nuker "Which historically doesn't work well in conquest but works great in wvw backlines".

Oh and PS:

1. Barrier killing all critical hits is questionable and needs to be reviewed.
2. Leave Thief alone. Stop it, stop nerfing it. It doesn't need nerfing.
3. Please be careful who's feedback you listen to, if this is truly a patch dedicated towards competitive areas in the game.

I agree with this. But not with thief. In wvw it will need a huge nerf. Right now, a thief jumps at you deals like 17k dmg in an instant and moves out unharmed, waits 5 seconds and does the same again.And even if you hit it with a shade for example, it just easy consicleanses everything

Hmmm. If been hit for 17k bs by a deadeye with full malice (7) and he was full zerk. Can't see how else they can do that

Well that was a dagger/something thief. The steal 2kdmg,backstab 9k, lightningstrike 1k and an autoattack.

You could achieve the numbers being byBeing Full zerk25stacks of blood lustassassins signetAnd you need to be dardevil

You then combo

Blackpowder-Dodge & and steal ( this will make the steal and dodge hit near simultaniously giving you stealth and the damage buff for dodging)

Backstab.

With this combo on other zerk characters you can get upward of 15-17k on backstab critand with might, this combo could do upwards of 20k on a zerk target.(thank you @"Delrago.2098" for the training on this, gotta give credit where it's due)

It's almost instant so if you don't notice it when the thief is in range you die if you are squish squish

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoa1k0MBHnA/TsQTYzVwO4I0LL8FKDaBgJUEA-j1RBABXt/o8bhDBAAPBAKV/xMlg4pPw4TAQAgDAnf+5nf+518zP/8zP/8zP/8SBExyI-w

There is (roughly) the build

[Nimon.7840]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

Arenanet, please read:

I'll state my opinions mostly from an spvp point of view, while still taking in to mind how it effects wvw and pve. But first it is important to point out what the problems are that the intra-class dynamic faces at this point in time in spvp. This is not only my opinion, but also the majority opinion of players playing platinum + at least from what I understand:

• Mesmer builds are too strong. There is too much DPS pressure here for how much survivability and utility is present.
• Spellbreakers specifically, not Berserker or Core, are too strong. This is mainly due to the power and utility behind Full Counter.
• Druids specifically, not Soulbeast or Core, are too strong. This is 100% due to Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow.
• Firebrand and Scourge are still mandatory choices for 5 man play and generally increase the win rates of any team, even in ranked or unranked, the more of them you have in your team. I wouldn't say they are "over powered" but the utility and function they bring into the dynamic of conquest matches or even wvw squads, is just more heavily evolved than anything else in the game right now. This effect becomes exponentially screwed up the more Firebrands and Scourges that are present on the same team together. They completely break the idea of not having a holy trinity. Firebrand and Scourge is the holy trinity at this point. Other classes/builds do not compare to the importance of these two in competitive play, spvp or wvw.
• The above problems result in the ultimate problem which is, very little class/build diversity in competitive play. Other classes aren't so kitten that they are unplayable but none of them are able to compete in viability with Mesmer based specs/Spellbreaker/Druid/Firebrand/Scourge.

How do I feel about the proposed changes? Well I think there are shortcuts and more simple ways to fix these problems that exist in spvp/wvw, without dabbling in so much change across the board on every character:

• Mesmers
  - Tone down the damage. It doesn't need to be neutered but it really needs a cut in its damage. However this is achieved, is up to the balance team.
• Spellbreakers
  - Full Counter needs nerfing. Nothing else needs to be touched! just Full Counter. However this is achieved, go for it balance team.
• Druids
  - There are way too many nerfs being directed into the wrong places on this one. I main Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast in every game mode and I tell you no lie when I say that the problem with Druid is completely within the two traits Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow. This is THE ENTIRE base of the Druid's survivability. Slightly nerfing these two traits wouldn't really effect pve and wvw play and would be better options than the enormous cuts proposed in the OP statement. Please read the previous thread I had opened on this topic as it goes into much deeper detail, with community feedback.
  https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27812/druid-post-2-6-2018-patch-druid-players-give-feedback/p1
  - If you do not read the thread, the point being is: To make Druid Clarity cleanse 3 condis per second, for 4 seconds upon activation instead of immediate 13 condi cleanse and Celestial Shadow's stealth/super speed should be reduced from 3s to 2s. This is more than enough of a nerf to make Druids much easier to kill. Nerfing them too much, will result in Druid losing all viability in any competitive setting.
• Firebrands & Scourges
  - Honestly, and a lot of people may disagree with this, I don't think these classes need any nerfing. Maybe they need a bit of reallocation to where power lies within the specs or how healing/protections need to be rotated to achieve high end results but they do not need nerfing.

About holy trinity & niches - If anything, I can say to the balance team that there actually needs to be a holy trinity so to say. Every class/specialization should be a stapled kind of gameplay and role within any group. I believe it would be healthy for the game at this point. It also would help with overall balance because, if one class is the stapled boon removal guy "As example" nothing else can ever really replace him, despite how much he is nerfed. But when every class can do every job, naturally it will result in some top 3 statistically superior selections and

balance will never be achieved.

I think it would be a good idea, to focus on giving core/hot/pof specializtions there own niches that only they can really do. This would make every specialization irreplaceable and always the best at what they are designed to do. Firebrand, Scourge, Spellbreaker, Druid, Thieves are great examples of this competitively. Mesmer should be in that list but Mesmer is better used as an example of a class that can do too much and is too good at everything. Pve wise, you have Druids and Chronos that are the only distinguished roles and the rest are DPS transparently based. How to change that? No idea, probably a lot harder to do than it is competitively. In competitive settings you have more roles that classes can specialize in such as: Team Support, Side Node Monkey Bunker, Bruiser "many subtypes within this", Decap +1 DPS, Point Nuker "Which historically doesn't work well in conquest but works great in wvw backlines".

Oh and PS:

1. Barrier killing all critical hits is questionable and needs to be reviewed.
2. Leave Thief alone. Stop it, stop nerfing it. It doesn't need nerfing.
3. Please be careful who's feedback you listen to, if this is truly a patch dedicated towards competitive areas in the game.

I agree with this. But not with thief. In wvw it will need a huge nerf. Right now, a thief jumps at you deals like 17k dmg in an instant and moves out unharmed, waits 5 seconds and does the same again.And even if you hit it with a shade for example, it just easy consicleanses everything

Hmmm. If been hit for 17k bs by a deadeye with full malice (7) and he was full zerk. Can't see how else they can do that

Well that was a dagger/something thief. The steal 2kdmg,backstab 9k, lightningstrike 1k and an autoattack.

You could achieve the numbers being byBeing Full zerk25stacks of blood lustassassins signetAnd you need to be dardevil

You then combo

Blackpowder-Dodge & and steal ( this will make the steal and dodge hit near simultaniously giving you stealth and the damage buff for dodging)

Backstab.

With this combo on other zerk characters you can get upward of 15-17k on backstab critand with might, this combo could do upwards of 20k on a zerk target.(thank you @"Delrago.2098" for the training on this, gotta give credit where it's due)

It's almost instant so if you don't notice it when the thief is in range you die if you are squish squish

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoa1k0MBHnA/TsQTYzVwO4I0LL8FKDaBgJUEA-j1RBABXt/o8bhDBAAPBAKV/xMlg4pPw4TAQAgDAnf+5nf+518zP/8zP/8zP/8SBExyI-w

There is (roughly) the build

Well. I had 3.2k armor... and it was a vanilla thief. No daredevil or deadeye.I didnt die from it, but that just seems way too overpowered. Especially, because i think he jumped through a wall. At the south east supply camp on alpine borders.

Same goes for mesmer. Mesmer can do almost the same.

And necros will get obstructed if there is just a small rock on the ground. Seems legit.

So what is the point in that? Everyone wants thief buffed, so he can oneshot everything?Some time ago i met a thief that did a 35k hit on 2.7k armor with his rifle. Dont know, if thats still possible.

So thief is fcking strong against single targets, but necro isnt allowed to shine in any gamemode? Just leave necros where they are right now.

I dont spvp. Because the only thing thats real fun is really limited there: trying to find own special builds for small groups or soloplay. Mix in a bit of vipers, a bit of celestial, a bit of marauder, and then hunt people, that arent expecting that.

In spvp you cant do that, because of lame amulets. Thats why i dont play spvp.

[Theros.1390]

By the way, and apologies if someone already said it (18 pages to read, eh), but will this relase be strictly focus on PvP/WvW split, or are you guys planning some PvE changes too ?

[Bteasn.5419]

So what you’re saying is, we shouldn’t play ranger, Druid, OR Soulbeast because we will die. A lot.

[Antako.5973]

Greetings, Ill try to be as brief as possible.I am passionate gamer for the past 10 years and newcomer to GW2. I was focused on PVP for the past 3 weeks. Reached platinum rating. Tested a lot of builds. Tested all the classes. So high ranked pvp meta is pretty strict and there are not so many viable builds/options for players to play atm. Engi is Holo, Necros are scourges and Warriors are spellbreakers. - Yes.But the way of the nerfs is the wrong way: to take options from players instead of giving them other options is wrong. If people are comfortable with holo/scourge/spellbreaker let them keep doing that (Majority of people are playing those builds) and you, instead of buffing scrapper/reaper/berserker and giving players new options force people out of zone of comfort.I understand your intention with those changes, but I think that you should do it another way.I know that the way of buffs/reworks is more complicated but it is more rewarding.

[Toron.4856]

@"Antako.5973" said:Greetings, Ill try to be as brief as possible.I am passionate gamer for the past 10 years and newcomer to GW2. I was focused on PVP for the past 3 weeks. Reached platinum rating. Tested a lot of builds. Tested all the classes. So high ranked pvp meta is pretty strict and there are not so many viable builds/options for players to play atm. Engi is Holo, Necros are scourges and Warriors are spellbreakers. - Yes.But the way of the nerfs is the wrong way: to take options from players instead of giving them other options is wrong. If people are comfortable with holo/scourge/spellbreaker let them keep doing that (Majority of people are playing those builds) and you, instead of buffing scrapper/reaper/berserker and giving players new options force people out of zone of comfort.I understand your intention with those changes, but I think that you should do it another way.I know that the way of buffs/reworks is more complicated but it is more rewarding.

thats not completly correct. That is what anet has been doing in the past and we seen where it leads to. Buffing the weak classes over n over to keep up w each other leads to the insane power creep we have atm. You dont want to end up in a meta where every class can 1 shot each other. you have to figure out what makes the class too strong and tune it down. Anet seems to be doing not too bad this time BUT some nerfs here are sadly just random nerfs. Just decreasing the dmg numbers and CDs all over the place is not the "core of the issue". It will nerf the class but the problem will remain regardless.

But trust me, buffing into oblivion is not the way to go. we have been there.

I agree tho, some could need a buff like berserker or scrapper( only for the reason that spellbreaker will always be better than berserker no matter how much u nerf spellbreaker) but u can also just nerf all classes to the level of scrapper and berserker -> losing power creep, and more build diversity.

Also, people play scourge and spellbreaker because its good not because they like it. im sure that the majority of warriors would rather play berserker than spellbreaker. Its just more fun to play.

[Kovu.7560]

@Toron.4856 said:

Also, people play scourge and spellbreaker because its good not because they like it.

Lol, I'll raise my cup to that.

~ Kovu

[perko.8309]

@Toron.4856 said:Also, people play [] spellbreaker because its good not because they like it. I'm sure that the majority of warriors would rather play Berserker than Spellbreaker. It's just more fun to play.BINGO!!

[Antako.5973]

I still find changes too drastic. Numbers are too big.Such changes need testing.How do I join PTR?Ah.

[Urejt.5648]

i like the direction of proposed changes, however i would like to also see some pvp bug fixes for deadeye. Here is my feedback:

Hello,here are biggest issues with deadeye in pvp which makes this class not fun to interact with. Feedback from top 50 eu player (rifle/shortbow)

1. Rifle 4 escape can not be used when immobilized. Easy fix would be triggering condi removal before animation (small step back) and making immobilization removal priority. Second way to fix it is to remove "step back" animation.
2. "Perfectionist" grand master trait never triggers twice in pvp fight, because remarking same target keeps malice stacks. Easy fix is to change wording from "Gain boons upon reaching maximum malice stacks" to " Gain boons whenever you have maximum malice stacks" 17.5 cooldown.[low priority] "Maleficent Seven" grand masdter trait from deadeye trait line is also useless in pvp. I would fix it so healing triggers whenever player has maximum stacks with 17.5 cooldown.]
3. "Improvistation" grandmaster trait from deadly arts has 20 seconds cooldown which is not compatible with traited "mark" with 17.5 seconds cooldown. Easy fix is to change "impovistation" cooldown to 17.5s. Such small cooldown decrease will not buff core sd, but will make "improvisation" usable for deadeye.
4. "Mercy" utility resets mark and removes malice stacks. I suggest it only enables mark skill without removing mark from the target and malice stacks. Currently "haste" utility is much better than "mercy"

[gonso.4268]

when will this patch be on? to RIP my sb warrior.