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Mesmer deceives its way past the PVP & WVW split

Razor.6392

By Razor.6392
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thatdarnkatz.7168

thatdarnkatz.7168

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@Egorum.9506 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

You completely missed the point. I never said that I was a good mesmer, why do you think that I even said that. It was the entire point in fact that I'm not as good as you think that I'm claiming to be. The point that you missed is that mesmers have a lot AVAILABLE, but that doesn't make them overpowered. They still take a lot of skill to use. Compare this to a spellbreaker that literally any moron con run with invulns on invulns. You don't have to be good to play a spellbreaker and be incredibly effective, but you do on a mesmer. Skill floor is a part of balance. If I wanted easy wins, I'd just go play an easy class. INstead, I am playing a class that's actually hard and when I kill people, it means I'm better than them, not that I have an easy class. If I wanted to take a nap while winning games, I'd load up a scourge or spellbreaker. With how easy those are to play, and be insanely effective, I don't see how you could call mesmer OP comparatively.

Mirage is as easy to play and win on as any spellbreaker. You're kidding yourself if you think a win on a mirage is due to player skill.

As is shown here:

I have a whopping 80 hours played on mes over the last 5 yearsAnd you have some seriously low skilled opponents. You won fair and square. The best matchup with with the ranger, and that fight was won because of a +1. The rest was basically people ignoring you and paying the price. Same thing happens if you ignore a fresh air or rifle stealth thief. Doesn't make it broken, it means that players actually need to, you know, think about which target to attack? Most players these days all look at the thing that isn't dying and attack that to kill it, not thinking about where damage is coming from. I've had a team of 4 people that COMPLETELY IGNORED a thief, not even in stealth, just sniping and yelled at me constantly for dying to him when no one would even look his way. Glass connons have a place, and they absolutely wreck low skilled players every time. I really don't know at all what you are complaining about unless you just want all power builds gone from the game, while everyone also complains that we have a bunker meta and that's bad. People need to die in order to make a match fun, and players that ignore the cannon will do so. Just watch out for players with brains, you won't last as long, and if you do, you are just running, not killing.

I'm not complaining, I love playing mesmer. I'm showing that the skill floor is very low for its degree of effectiveness. I'm showing that it doesn't die even in zerker gear. I went 29:1 kdr on a game today, I've only played maybe 10 games with this build lmao.

Ok, thought this was another "Look, I've played this for 2 minutes and I'm God, too OP" responses that seem so popular. In lower levels of play the skill floor is very low yes, which is fantastic. Much like the rifle thief. Those that see this low level floor and think that means that it's an easy build at high levels, not so much. High levels start putting your skill to the test, not just how well constructed your build is. Unless you play pre-nerf scourge, that was horrible. Won several matches with that while literally while mostly watching a movie. We won so bad I thought we were the losing team and I caused it by not paying attention. Was too broken. Mesmer needs some tweaks, but is not broken.

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Egorum.9506

Egorum.9506

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@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

You completely missed the point. I never said that I was a good mesmer, why do you think that I even said that. It was the entire point in fact that I'm not as good as you think that I'm claiming to be. The point that you missed is that mesmers have a lot AVAILABLE, but that doesn't make them overpowered. They still take a lot of skill to use. Compare this to a spellbreaker that literally any moron con run with invulns on invulns. You don't have to be good to play a spellbreaker and be incredibly effective, but you do on a mesmer. Skill floor is a part of balance. If I wanted easy wins, I'd just go play an easy class. INstead, I am playing a class that's actually hard and when I kill people, it means I'm better than them, not that I have an easy class. If I wanted to take a nap while winning games, I'd load up a scourge or spellbreaker. With how easy those are to play, and be insanely effective, I don't see how you could call mesmer OP comparatively.

Mirage is as easy to play and win on as any spellbreaker. You're kidding yourself if you think a win on a mirage is due to player skill.

As is shown here:

I have a whopping 80 hours played on mes over the last 5 yearsAnd you have some seriously low skilled opponents. You won fair and square. The best matchup with with the ranger, and that fight was won because of a +1. The rest was basically people ignoring you and paying the price. Same thing happens if you ignore a fresh air or rifle stealth thief. Doesn't make it broken, it means that players actually need to, you know, think about which target to attack? Most players these days all look at the thing that isn't dying and attack that to kill it, not thinking about where damage is coming from. I've had a team of 4 people that COMPLETELY IGNORED a thief, not even in stealth, just sniping and yelled at me constantly for dying to him when no one would even look his way. Glass connons have a place, and they absolutely wreck low skilled players every time. I really don't know at all what you are complaining about unless you just want all power builds gone from the game, while everyone also complains that we have a bunker meta and that's bad. People need to die in order to make a match fun, and players that ignore the cannon will do so. Just watch out for players with brains, you won't last as long, and if you do, you are just running, not killing.

I'm not complaining, I love playing mesmer. I'm showing that the skill floor is very low for its degree of effectiveness. I'm showing that it doesn't die even in zerker gear. I went 29:1 kdr on a game today, I've only played maybe 10 games with this build lmao.

Ok, thought this was another "Look, I've played this for 2 minutes and I'm God, too OP" responses that seem so popular. In lower levels of play the skill floor is very low yes, which is fantastic. Much like the rifle thief. Those that see this low level floor and think that means that it's an easy build at high levels, not so much. High levels start putting your skill to the test, not just how well constructed your build is. Unless you play pre-nerf scourge, that was horrible. Won several matches with that while literally while mostly watching a movie. We won so bad I thought we were the losing team and I caused it by not paying attention. Was too broken. Mesmer needs some tweaks, but is not broken.

Mes is very much so broken, those are Plat matches man lol. It has crazy high evade/stealth/blind uptime and great mobility/disengage. You should almost never die on one

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zealex.9410

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

I have a few thoughts on the listed mesmer changes, but to sum them up in one sentence - I think they are pretty bad. They don't address the burst issues mesmer has, they don't address the fact that we can have sustain in chrono and still pull off a deadly burst, but most importantly (to me) is the nerf to EM. I never agreed with the exhaustion mechanic back when it was placed on UC, but it especially doesn't make sense on EM. Mirage does not offer flat endurance regen, so exhaustion cuts out all of our endurance regen while we have it. But more than that, Mirage uses dodges offensively, whereas UC was a purely defensive skill. Not only do we not have the flat endurance regen to sort of offput the exhaustion in a limited scope, but we also lose out on a lot of potential offensive pressure, all while having 50 less endurance to start with than DD got. Simply put, the exhaustion has a significantly higher burden on Mirage than it does on DD.

Clearing the condition and breaking the stun are icing o the cake that is EM. The real issue is that you can do other actions while being invulnerable.

Adding a cool down to stun break wont fix the issue. A price has to be paid for the invulnerability while taking offensive actions, the exhaustion time is fair.

edit: isn't this dodge duration also .25s longer than other dodges?

I was mad as hell when they nerfed UC, thought it was the worst thing for DD

This is no dd. We dont get 15 extra dodges from utilities.

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zealex.9410

zealex.9410

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@OriOri.8724 said:

@apharma.3741 said:I think removing the stunbreak aspect from elusive mind completely is a better way to go and change Elusive mind to be cleanse a condition when you gain mirage cloak. This makes the trait interact better with Desert Distortion too however exhaustion I said was a poor mechanic when applied to daredevil and I stand by that statement for mirage too.

Other changes I'd like to see:

Shaterstorm: This offers too much damage for a power build and completely eclipses the entirety of the domination trait line so I'd personally like to see it become Mind Wrack becomes ammo but does -25-35% damage.

Confounding Suggestions: Stun is a lot stronger than daze and letting a daze become a 1s stun on such a low cool down is far too good, I'd prefer to see it be +50% stun and daze duration.

Chronophantasma: in my opinion should make your phantasms do 20% less damage, I'm ok with them not taking a huge nerf to damage here because a resummoned phantasm is dazed for 1.5s giving a window of opportunity to kill them especially in an AoE heavy environment.

Mantra of Distraction: It's instant cast nature coupled with compounding suggestions is what most people have a problem with, I think removing the daze converting to a stun aspect will alleviate most complaints here however it might need a daze duration reduction to 0.5s.

Well put. I would also rather see the stunbreak removed entirely than have this exhaustion mechanic tacked on. Have to agree with confounding suggestions as well, it was designed back when the game was significantly less spammy overall, and it was well designed in that environment, but not anymore. I don't entirely agree with your proposed CP changes, I think leaving their damage the same is fine, precisely because its so easy to kill them before they can get that second attack off, but I do want to see the trait updated so that phantasms no longer turn into clones. Get an extra attack at the expense of not getting shatter fodder is a very fair tradeoff.

Imo chronophantasma shouldnt turn phantasms into clones. But ehh u cant really split that in pvp and pve.

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zealex.9410

zealex.9410

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@Velimere.7685 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:
I humbly request, as a long time player, that you not cripple my class.

My point is: ANET has a long history of nerfs to Mesmer that turned out to be very heavy.

Their currently stated planned nerf for Elusive Mind is an example of "very heavy" in that regard as it becomes crippling; a 10-second recharge to the "breaks stun" portion of the trait would serve much better and would be in line with Revenant being able to break stun every 10 seconds via Empty Vessel. Unlike Daredevil, Mirage in its current iteration does not have means beyond endurance regeneration to cope with the application of exhaustion. Furthermore, a Revenant would be able to break stun more frequently than a Mirage with Elusive Mind having a 10-second recharge to its "break stun" portion, so I'd say that'd make Elusive Mind fairly balanced in that regard.

Turning hard ccs into daze and giving a small icd would be even better imo and fitting if the mesmer.

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Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:
I humbly request, as a long time player, that you not cripple my class.

My point is: ANET has a long history of nerfs to Mesmer that turned out to be very heavy.

Their currently stated planned nerf for Elusive Mind is an example of "very heavy" in that regard as it becomes crippling; a 10-second recharge to the "breaks stun" portion of the trait would serve much better and would be in line with Revenant being able to break stun every 10 seconds via Empty Vessel. Unlike Daredevil, Mirage in its current iteration does not have means beyond endurance regeneration to cope with the application of exhaustion. Furthermore, a Revenant would be able to break stun more frequently than a Mirage with Elusive Mind having a 10-second recharge to its "break stun" portion, so I'd say that'd make Elusive Mind fairly balanced in that regard.

Turning hard ccs into daze and giving a small icd would be even better imo and fitting if the mesmer.

I was specifically referring to the currently stated planned nerf for Elusive Mind which is basically a "don't play Mirage anymore" nerf.

However, I do agree that Confounding Suggestions is fairly overpowered in its current state if that's what you're referring to.

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zealex.9410

zealex.9410

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@Velimere.7685 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:
I humbly request, as a long time player, that you not cripple my class.

My point is: ANET has a long history of nerfs to Mesmer that turned out to be very heavy.

Their currently stated planned nerf for Elusive Mind is an example of "very heavy" in that regard as it becomes crippling; a 10-second recharge to the "breaks stun" portion of the trait would serve much better and would be in line with Revenant being able to break stun every 10 seconds via Empty Vessel. Unlike Daredevil, Mirage in its current iteration does not have means beyond endurance regeneration to cope with the application of exhaustion. Furthermore, a Revenant would be able to break stun more frequently than a Mirage with Elusive Mind having a 10-second recharge to its "break stun" portion, so I'd say that'd make Elusive Mind fairly balanced in that regard.

Turning hard ccs into daze and giving a small icd would be even better imo and fitting if the mesmer.

I was specifically referring to the currently stated planned nerf for Elusive Mind which is basically a "don't play Mirage anymore" nerf.

However, I do agree that Confounding Suggestions is fairly overpowered in its current state if that's what you're referring to.

Im refering to Em and a possible way to tone it down. Confounding suggestion need to be toned down as well i agree.

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thatdarnkatz.7168

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@Egorum.9506 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

You completely missed the point. I never said that I was a good mesmer, why do you think that I even said that. It was the entire point in fact that I'm not as good as you think that I'm claiming to be. The point that you missed is that mesmers have a lot AVAILABLE, but that doesn't make them overpowered. They still take a lot of skill to use. Compare this to a spellbreaker that literally any moron con run with invulns on invulns. You don't have to be good to play a spellbreaker and be incredibly effective, but you do on a mesmer. Skill floor is a part of balance. If I wanted easy wins, I'd just go play an easy class. INstead, I am playing a class that's actually hard and when I kill people, it means I'm better than them, not that I have an easy class. If I wanted to take a nap while winning games, I'd load up a scourge or spellbreaker. With how easy those are to play, and be insanely effective, I don't see how you could call mesmer OP comparatively.

Mirage is as easy to play and win on as any spellbreaker. You're kidding yourself if you think a win on a mirage is due to player skill.

As is shown here:

I have a whopping 80 hours played on mes over the last 5 yearsAnd you have some seriously low skilled opponents. You won fair and square. The best matchup with with the ranger, and that fight was won because of a +1. The rest was basically people ignoring you and paying the price. Same thing happens if you ignore a fresh air or rifle stealth thief. Doesn't make it broken, it means that players actually need to, you know, think about which target to attack? Most players these days all look at the thing that isn't dying and attack that to kill it, not thinking about where damage is coming from. I've had a team of 4 people that COMPLETELY IGNORED a thief, not even in stealth, just sniping and yelled at me constantly for dying to him when no one would even look his way. Glass connons have a place, and they absolutely wreck low skilled players every time. I really don't know at all what you are complaining about unless you just want all power builds gone from the game, while everyone also complains that we have a bunker meta and that's bad. People need to die in order to make a match fun, and players that ignore the cannon will do so. Just watch out for players with brains, you won't last as long, and if you do, you are just running, not killing.

I'm not complaining, I love playing mesmer. I'm showing that the skill floor is very low for its degree of effectiveness. I'm showing that it doesn't die even in zerker gear. I went 29:1 kdr on a game today, I've only played maybe 10 games with this build lmao.

Ok, thought this was another "Look, I've played this for 2 minutes and I'm God, too OP" responses that seem so popular. In lower levels of play the skill floor is very low yes, which is fantastic. Much like the rifle thief. Those that see this low level floor and think that means that it's an easy build at high levels, not so much. High levels start putting your skill to the test, not just how well constructed your build is. Unless you play pre-nerf scourge, that was horrible. Won several matches with that while literally while mostly watching a movie. We won so bad I thought we were the losing team and I caused it by not paying attention. Was too broken. Mesmer needs some tweaks, but is not broken.

Mes is very much so broken, those are Plat matches man lol. It has crazy high evade/stealth/blind uptime and great mobility/disengage. You should almost never die on one

Those were plat matches? Wow have things gotten worse in the last few days. I wish I had your leck of getting crap opponents like that. Most of my opponents are smart enough to realize that I'm murdering everyone and I'm forced to get out, or take a 1v3, which gets kinda hard when there are so many bunkers around. I normally play in high gold-mid plat depending on if I take friends along that drag me down, but never do I get matches that bad. It's definitely true that mesmer has the escape, but so does deadeye with it's insane uptime on stealth, stunbreak, and teleports, along with the reveal remove. To call mermer escape "broken" would be an overstatement, and same to it's damage. It can sustain better than F/A weaver in many cases, but makes a pretty good 1v1 against them, or a deadeye. It definitely needs a little touching up, but nowhere near the realm of broken that people scream about. Take that out into T1 WvW and try to fight and see how well it works for you. Whole different ball game when people want you dead specifically, which is what they should be doing in PvP as you are a mobile high damage character.

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Math.5123

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@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:Possibly just adding an ICD on Elusive mind of 5sA stunbreak on a 5 second cooldown that does not take a utility slot is still way too strong. Even with the endurance nerf. Which class has the opportunity to be able to stunlock the Mesmer with a 5 second CD?Couple it with blink and f4 and it makes it nigh impossible to make any stuns actually matter..

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Kahyos.1437

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@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

You completely missed the point. I never said that I was a good mesmer, why do you think that I even said that. It was the entire point in fact that I'm not as good as you think that I'm claiming to be. The point that you missed is that mesmers have a lot AVAILABLE, but that doesn't make them overpowered. They still take a lot of skill to use. Compare this to a spellbreaker that literally any moron con run with invulns on invulns. You don't have to be good to play a spellbreaker and be incredibly effective, but you do on a mesmer. Skill floor is a part of balance. If I wanted easy wins, I'd just go play an easy class. INstead, I am playing a class that's actually hard and when I kill people, it means I'm better than them, not that I have an easy class. If I wanted to take a nap while winning games, I'd load up a scourge or spellbreaker. With how easy those are to play, and be insanely effective, I don't see how you could call mesmer OP comparatively.

Mirage is as easy to play and win on as any spellbreaker. You're kidding yourself if you think a win on a mirage is due to player skill.

As is shown here:

I have a whopping 80 hours played on mes over the last 5 yearsAnd you have some seriously low skilled opponents. You won fair and square. The best matchup with with the ranger, and that fight was won because of a +1. The rest was basically people ignoring you and paying the price. Same thing happens if you ignore a fresh air or rifle stealth thief. Doesn't make it broken, it means that players actually need to, you know, think about which target to attack? Most players these days all look at the thing that isn't dying and attack that to kill it, not thinking about where damage is coming from. I've had a team of 4 people that COMPLETELY IGNORED a thief, not even in stealth, just sniping and yelled at me constantly for dying to him when no one would even look his way. Glass connons have a place, and they absolutely wreck low skilled players every time. I really don't know at all what you are complaining about unless you just want all power builds gone from the game, while everyone also complains that we have a bunker meta and that's bad. People need to die in order to make a match fun, and players that ignore the cannon will do so. Just watch out for players with brains, you won't last as long, and if you do, you are just running, not killing.

I'm not complaining, I love playing mesmer. I'm showing that the skill floor is very low for its degree of effectiveness. I'm showing that it doesn't die even in zerker gear. I went 29:1 kdr on a game today, I've only played maybe 10 games with this build lmao.

Ok, thought this was another "Look, I've played this for 2 minutes and I'm God, too OP" responses that seem so popular. In lower levels of play the skill floor is very low yes, which is fantastic. Much like the rifle thief. Those that see this low level floor and think that means that it's an easy build at high levels, not so much. High levels start putting your skill to the test, not just how well constructed your build is. Unless you play pre-nerf scourge, that was horrible. Won several matches with that while literally while mostly watching a movie. We won so bad I thought we were the losing team and I caused it by not paying attention. Was too broken. Mesmer needs some tweaks, but is not broken.

Mes is very much so broken, those are Plat matches man lol. It has crazy high evade/stealth/blind uptime and great mobility/disengage. You should almost never die on one

Those were plat matches? Wow have things gotten worse in the last few days. I wish I had your leck of getting crap opponents like that. Most of my opponents are smart enough to realize that I'm murdering everyone and I'm forced to get out, or take a 1v3, which gets kinda hard when there are so many bunkers around. I normally play in high gold-mid plat depending on if I take friends along that drag me down, but never do I get matches that bad. It's definitely true that mesmer has the escape, but so does deadeye with it's insane uptime on stealth, stunbreak, and teleports, along with the reveal remove. To call mermer escape "broken" would be an overstatement, and same to it's damage. It can sustain better than F/A weaver in many cases, but makes a pretty good 1v1 against them, or a deadeye. It definitely needs a little touching up, but nowhere near the realm of broken that people scream about. Take that out into T1 WvW and try to fight and see how well it works for you. Whole different ball game when people want you dead specifically, which is what they should be doing in PvP as you are a mobile high damage character.

I honestly can't trust people of lower rank calling plat people crap.

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Felipe.1807

Felipe.1807

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@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Most reductions to Mesmers in my 5+ years in the game has been severe. Of course there are more clones now and shattering is more frequent. That was the stated goal of the rework. It even serves to make Mesmers a little bit confusing. I have to admit, when I hear of a nerf to Mesmer, I now assuming that it will be crippling. I'm scared that I'm seeing another glamour nerf on the horizon.

The fact that some find it unpleasant to play against Mesmers is not a rationale to nerf.

Please ANET, I "grew up" as a Mesmer,(in the year plus,) after the glamour nerf, when the class was widely acknowledged to be "trash tier" and hambow warriors ruled the world.

I humbly request, as a long time player, that you not cripple my class.

My point is: ANET has a long history of nerfs to Mesmer that turned out to be very heavy. Given this, ANET would be prudent to be cautious and under react rather than over react.

When was Mesmer ever 'trash tier"? If my memory dont fails me, Mesmer had allways been meta, on all game modes! This have nothing to deal with it anyway, the fact is that Mesmer and its specs are way to powerfull, need some good nerfs...to me they should just remove evade frames from attacks, or greatly reduce the % of damage, attack+defence on a single skill is not good, huge damage+defence is broken, this is valid for all professions that have this kind of stuff, be evades or damage invulnerabilities.

@Kahyos.1437 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

You completely missed the point. I never said that I was a good mesmer, why do you think that I even said that. It was the entire point in fact that I'm not as good as you think that I'm claiming to be. The point that you missed is that mesmers have a lot AVAILABLE, but that doesn't make them overpowered. They still take a lot of skill to use. Compare this to a spellbreaker that literally any moron con run with invulns on invulns. You don't have to be good to play a spellbreaker and be incredibly effective, but you do on a mesmer. Skill floor is a part of balance. If I wanted easy wins, I'd just go play an easy class. INstead, I am playing a class that's actually hard and when I kill people, it means I'm better than them, not that I have an easy class. If I wanted to take a nap while winning games, I'd load up a scourge or spellbreaker. With how easy those are to play, and be insanely effective, I don't see how you could call mesmer OP comparatively.

Mirage is as easy to play and win on as any spellbreaker. You're kidding yourself if you think a win on a mirage is due to player skill.

As is shown here:

I have a whopping 80 hours played on mes over the last 5 yearsAnd you have some seriously low skilled opponents. You won fair and square. The best matchup with with the ranger, and that fight was won because of a +1. The rest was basically people ignoring you and paying the price. Same thing happens if you ignore a fresh air or rifle stealth thief. Doesn't make it broken, it means that players actually need to, you know, think about which target to attack? Most players these days all look at the thing that isn't dying and attack that to kill it, not thinking about where damage is coming from. I've had a team of 4 people that COMPLETELY IGNORED a thief, not even in stealth, just sniping and yelled at me constantly for dying to him when no one would even look his way. Glass connons have a place, and they absolutely wreck low skilled players every time. I really don't know at all what you are complaining about unless you just want all power builds gone from the game, while everyone also complains that we have a bunker meta and that's bad. People need to die in order to make a match fun, and players that ignore the cannon will do so. Just watch out for players with brains, you won't last as long, and if you do, you are just running, not killing.

I'm not complaining, I love playing mesmer. I'm showing that the skill floor is very low for its degree of effectiveness. I'm showing that it doesn't die even in zerker gear. I went 29:1 kdr on a game today, I've only played maybe 10 games with this build lmao.

Ok, thought this was another "Look, I've played this for 2 minutes and I'm God, too OP" responses that seem so popular. In lower levels of play the skill floor is very low yes, which is fantastic. Much like the rifle thief. Those that see this low level floor and think that means that it's an easy build at high levels, not so much. High levels start putting your skill to the test, not just how well constructed your build is. Unless you play pre-nerf scourge, that was horrible. Won several matches with that while literally while mostly watching a movie. We won so bad I thought we were the losing team and I caused it by not paying attention. Was too broken. Mesmer needs some tweaks, but is not broken.

Mes is very much so broken, those are Plat matches man lol. It has crazy high evade/stealth/blind uptime and great mobility/disengage. You should almost never die on one

Those were plat matches? Wow have things gotten worse in the last few days. I wish I had your leck of getting crap opponents like that. Most of my opponents are smart enough to realize that I'm murdering everyone and I'm forced to get out, or take a 1v3, which gets kinda hard when there are so many bunkers around. I normally play in high gold-mid plat depending on if I take friends along that drag me down, but never do I get matches that bad. It's definitely true that mesmer has the escape, but so does deadeye with it's insane uptime on stealth, stunbreak, and teleports, along with the reveal remove. To call mermer escape "broken" would be an overstatement, and same to it's damage. It can sustain better than F/A weaver in many cases, but makes a pretty good 1v1 against them, or a deadeye. It definitely needs a little touching up, but nowhere near the realm of broken that people scream about. Take that out into T1 WvW and try to fight and see how well it works for you. Whole different ball game when people want you dead specifically, which is what they should be doing in PvP as you are a mobile high damage character.

I honestly can't trust people of lower rank calling plat people crap.

Yeah this dude is funny, talking down Plat players when he admits he is high gold...he even said himself that he is not a good mesmer and now he is talking about 1v3 lol yeah guess the prefession is not overtuned and carrying people beyond their skill level...

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Solori.6025

Solori.6025

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@Felipe.1807 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Most reductions to Mesmers in my 5+ years in the game has been severe. Of course there are more clones now and shattering is more frequent.
That was the stated goal of the rework.
It even serves to make Mesmers a little bit confusing.
I have to admit, when I hear of a nerf to Mesmer, I now assuming that it will be crippling. I'm scared that I'm seeing another glamour nerf on the horizon.

The fact that some find it unpleasant to play against Mesmers is not a rationale to nerf.

Please ANET, I "grew up" as a Mesmer,(in the year plus,) after the glamour nerf, when the class was widely acknowledged to be "trash tier" and hambow warriors ruled the world.

I humbly request, as a long time player, that you not cripple my class.

My point is: ANET has a long history of nerfs to Mesmer that turned out to be very heavy. Given this, ANET would be prudent to be cautious and under react rather than over react.

When was Mesmer ever 'trash tier"?

Mesmer became unwanted in pvp meta after the various nerfs to traits and utilities, and then the buffing of Thief. One could say it was the numerous buffs to other classes like thief, Guardian, and Warrior that frequently kept the mesmer out of any real position other than being used for portals, and even then that was a liability because thief could add the roaming and +1 to fights, over performing most classes that decided to try and fill that role.This isn't taking into account the various bugs that plagued the class from the start of the game, and the incremental buffs to the core mechanic (phantasm's and clones) since 2012And lot of other things ( like fixing bugs that caused skills to miss for no reason, or the horrible AI pathing that was fixed around 2014(?) , clones being killed by AA, the loss of clone death traits, signets being useless, the revealed change, the change to phantasm summons etc.) That continuously hammered the mes out of any real power dps or +1 position until the trait rework. With the addition of Chronomancer the Mesmer gained a little more favor in team fights with the addition of Chrono Phantasma, Alacrity, and the ability to chain CC. The addition of Chronomancer also opened the mesmer up for a slot in WvW Zergs, and even PvE, both places where it had no real place in because other classes brought more to the table then mes.Also from a purely Spvp point of view, you could find helseth on record saying ( in not so many words) "Mesmer is not Viable, I am". At the time, that was true. Mesmer outside of a very specific team comp ( basically people playing around the mesmer, treating them as the team lead) was not largely viable.

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Egorum.9506

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@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

You completely missed the point. I never said that I was a good mesmer, why do you think that I even said that. It was the entire point in fact that I'm not as good as you think that I'm claiming to be. The point that you missed is that mesmers have a lot AVAILABLE, but that doesn't make them overpowered. They still take a lot of skill to use. Compare this to a spellbreaker that literally any moron con run with invulns on invulns. You don't have to be good to play a spellbreaker and be incredibly effective, but you do on a mesmer. Skill floor is a part of balance. If I wanted easy wins, I'd just go play an easy class. INstead, I am playing a class that's actually hard and when I kill people, it means I'm better than them, not that I have an easy class. If I wanted to take a nap while winning games, I'd load up a scourge or spellbreaker. With how easy those are to play, and be insanely effective, I don't see how you could call mesmer OP comparatively.

Mirage is as easy to play and win on as any spellbreaker. You're kidding yourself if you think a win on a mirage is due to player skill.

As is shown here:

I have a whopping 80 hours played on mes over the last 5 yearsAnd you have some seriously low skilled opponents. You won fair and square. The best matchup with with the ranger, and that fight was won because of a +1. The rest was basically people ignoring you and paying the price. Same thing happens if you ignore a fresh air or rifle stealth thief. Doesn't make it broken, it means that players actually need to, you know, think about which target to attack? Most players these days all look at the thing that isn't dying and attack that to kill it, not thinking about where damage is coming from. I've had a team of 4 people that COMPLETELY IGNORED a thief, not even in stealth, just sniping and yelled at me constantly for dying to him when no one would even look his way. Glass connons have a place, and they absolutely wreck low skilled players every time. I really don't know at all what you are complaining about unless you just want all power builds gone from the game, while everyone also complains that we have a bunker meta and that's bad. People need to die in order to make a match fun, and players that ignore the cannon will do so. Just watch out for players with brains, you won't last as long, and if you do, you are just running, not killing.

I'm not complaining, I love playing mesmer. I'm showing that the skill floor is very low for its degree of effectiveness. I'm showing that it doesn't die even in zerker gear. I went 29:1 kdr on a game today, I've only played maybe 10 games with this build lmao.

Ok, thought this was another "Look, I've played this for 2 minutes and I'm God, too OP" responses that seem so popular. In lower levels of play the skill floor is very low yes, which is fantastic. Much like the rifle thief. Those that see this low level floor and think that means that it's an easy build at high levels, not so much. High levels start putting your skill to the test, not just how well constructed your build is. Unless you play pre-nerf scourge, that was horrible. Won several matches with that while literally while mostly watching a movie. We won so bad I thought we were the losing team and I caused it by not paying attention. Was too broken. Mesmer needs some tweaks, but is not broken.

Mes is very much so broken, those are Plat matches man lol. It has crazy high evade/stealth/blind uptime and great mobility/disengage. You should almost never die on one

Those were plat matches? Wow have things gotten worse in the last few days. I wish I had your leck of getting crap opponents like that. Most of my opponents are smart enough to realize that I'm murdering everyone and I'm forced to get out, or take a 1v3, which gets kinda hard when there are so many bunkers around. I normally play in high gold-mid plat depending on if I take friends along that drag me down, but never do I get matches that bad. It's definitely true that mesmer has the escape, but so does deadeye with it's insane uptime on stealth, stunbreak, and teleports, along with the reveal remove. To call mermer escape "broken" would be an overstatement, and same to it's damage. It can sustain better than F/A weaver in many cases, but makes a pretty good 1v1 against them, or a deadeye. It definitely needs a little touching up, but nowhere near the realm of broken that people scream about. Take that out into T1 WvW and try to fight and see how well it works for you. Whole different ball game when people want you dead specifically, which is what they should be doing in PvP as you are a mobile high damage character.

Just stealth and disengage, go +1 the next fight. There is no reason you should ever have to fight a fight you don't want on mirage. You have two options for stealth engage and your opening burst (while easy to avoid) also costs you nothing to blow at will. I zerker, if they don't dodge there's 6k. Gs2, mirage advance, jaunt, mw. If they don't dodge, there's 12k.

If they do dodge, awesome! Swap to s/t and just dodge ambush jaunt until they die. If you get counterburst or hit too hard, activate mirage retreat or blink. Stealth and run lol.

I tried it out in WvW T1 last week as a matter of fact, it's much more broken because the damage is even higher there. Sure if a DE or mirage gets the jump on you you'll die, but same if you get them

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Jace al Thor.6745

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@Solori.6025 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Most reductions to Mesmers in my 5+ years in the game has been severe. Of course there are more clones now and shattering is more frequent.
That was the stated goal of the rework.
It even serves to make Mesmers a little bit confusing.
I have to admit, when I hear of a nerf to Mesmer, I now assuming that it will be crippling. I'm scared that I'm seeing another glamour nerf on the horizon.

The fact that some find it unpleasant to play against Mesmers is not a rationale to nerf.

Please ANET, I "grew up" as a Mesmer,(in the year plus,) after the glamour nerf, when the class was widely acknowledged to be "trash tier" and hambow warriors ruled the world.

I humbly request, as a long time player, that you not cripple my class.

My point is: ANET has a long history of nerfs to Mesmer that turned out to be very heavy. Given this, ANET would be prudent to be cautious and under react rather than over react.

When was Mesmer ever 'trash tier"?

Mesmer became unwanted in pvp meta after the various nerfs to traits and utilities, and then the buffing of Thief. One could say it was the numerous buffs to other classes like thief, Guardian, and Warrior that frequently kept the mesmer out of any real position other than being used for portals, and even then that was a liability because thief could add the roaming and +1 to fights, over performing most classes that decided to try and fill that role.This isn't taking into account the various bugs that plagued the class from the start of the game, and the incremental buffs to the core mechanic (phantasm's and clones) since 2012And lot of other things ( like fixing bugs that caused skills to miss for no reason, or the horrible AI pathing that was fixed around 2014(?) , clones being killed by AA, the loss of clone death traits, signets being useless, the revealed change, the change to phantasm summons etc.) That continuously hammered the mes out of any real power dps or +1 position until the trait rework. With the addition of Chronomancer the Mesmer gained a little more favor in team fights with the addition of Chrono Phantasma, Alacrity, and the ability to chain CC. The addition of Chronomancer also opened the mesmer up for a slot in WvW Zergs, and even PvE, both places where it had no real place in because other classes brought more to the table then mes.Also from a purely Spvp point of view, you could find helseth on record saying ( in not so many words) "Mesmer is not Viable, I am". At the time, that was true. Mesmer outside of a very specific team comp ( basically people playing around the mesmer, treating them as the team lead) was not largely viable.

Unfortunately they people that are complaining about Mesmer won’t care about anything you just said no matter how true it is. Pre-Chrono you had maybe 4 people play Mesmer at a competitive level, everyone else played ele, war, theif, guard etc.The biggest I see is that no one likes to fight against Mesmer, it’s a noob killer, and people are simply jealous. They’re jealous because Anet gave Mesmer some attention and much needed love to give it multiple builds across the game and not theirs. But it’s extremely likely Anet is going to put out a major rework like this for every class bit by bit and when that happens the same people crying for Mesmer nerfs will fall for nerfs to other classes as long as it’s not theirs and bitch when people call for their class to be nerfed.

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thatdarnkatz.7168

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@Felipe.1807 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Most reductions to Mesmers in my 5+ years in the game has been severe. Of course there are more clones now and shattering is more frequent.
That was the stated goal of the rework.
It even serves to make Mesmers a little bit confusing.
I have to admit, when I hear of a nerf to Mesmer, I now assuming that it will be crippling. I'm scared that I'm seeing another glamour nerf on the horizon.

The fact that some find it unpleasant to play against Mesmers is not a rationale to nerf.

Please ANET, I "grew up" as a Mesmer,(in the year plus,) after the glamour nerf, when the class was widely acknowledged to be "trash tier" and hambow warriors ruled the world.

I humbly request, as a long time player, that you not cripple my class.

My point is: ANET has a long history of nerfs to Mesmer that turned out to be very heavy. Given this, ANET would be prudent to be cautious and under react rather than over react.

When was Mesmer ever 'trash tier"? If my memory dont fails me, Mesmer had allways been meta, on all game modes! This have nothing to deal with it anyway, the fact is that Mesmer and its specs are way to powerfull, need some good nerfs...to me they should just remove evade frames from attacks, or greatly reduce the % of damage, attack+defence on a single skill is not good, huge damage+defence is broken, this is valid for all professions that have this kind of stuff, be evades or damage invulnerabilities.

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

You completely missed the point. I never said that I was a good mesmer, why do you think that I even said that. It was the entire point in fact that I'm not as good as you think that I'm claiming to be. The point that you missed is that mesmers have a lot AVAILABLE, but that doesn't make them overpowered. They still take a lot of skill to use. Compare this to a spellbreaker that literally any moron con run with invulns on invulns. You don't have to be good to play a spellbreaker and be incredibly effective, but you do on a mesmer. Skill floor is a part of balance. If I wanted easy wins, I'd just go play an easy class. INstead, I am playing a class that's actually hard and when I kill people, it means I'm better than them, not that I have an easy class. If I wanted to take a nap while winning games, I'd load up a scourge or spellbreaker. With how easy those are to play, and be insanely effective, I don't see how you could call mesmer OP comparatively.

Mirage is as easy to play and win on as any spellbreaker. You're kidding yourself if you think a win on a mirage is due to player skill.

As is shown here:

I have a whopping 80 hours played on mes over the last 5 yearsAnd you have some seriously low skilled opponents. You won fair and square. The best matchup with with the ranger, and that fight was won because of a +1. The rest was basically people ignoring you and paying the price. Same thing happens if you ignore a fresh air or rifle stealth thief. Doesn't make it broken, it means that players actually need to, you know, think about which target to attack? Most players these days all look at the thing that isn't dying and attack that to kill it, not thinking about where damage is coming from. I've had a team of 4 people that COMPLETELY IGNORED a thief, not even in stealth, just sniping and yelled at me constantly for dying to him when no one would even look his way. Glass connons have a place, and they absolutely wreck low skilled players every time. I really don't know at all what you are complaining about unless you just want all power builds gone from the game, while everyone also complains that we have a bunker meta and that's bad. People need to die in order to make a match fun, and players that ignore the cannon will do so. Just watch out for players with brains, you won't last as long, and if you do, you are just running, not killing.

I'm not complaining, I love playing mesmer. I'm showing that the skill floor is very low for its degree of effectiveness. I'm showing that it doesn't die even in zerker gear. I went 29:1 kdr on a game today, I've only played maybe 10 games with this build lmao.

Ok, thought this was another "Look, I've played this for 2 minutes and I'm God, too OP" responses that seem so popular. In lower levels of play the skill floor is very low yes, which is fantastic. Much like the rifle thief. Those that see this low level floor and think that means that it's an easy build at high levels, not so much. High levels start putting your skill to the test, not just how well constructed your build is. Unless you play pre-nerf scourge, that was horrible. Won several matches with that while literally while mostly watching a movie. We won so bad I thought we were the losing team and I caused it by not paying attention. Was too broken. Mesmer needs some tweaks, but is not broken.

Mes is very much so broken, those are Plat matches man lol. It has crazy high evade/stealth/blind uptime and great mobility/disengage. You should almost never die on one

Those were plat matches? Wow have things gotten worse in the last few days. I wish I had your leck of getting crap opponents like that. Most of my opponents are smart enough to realize that I'm murdering everyone and I'm forced to get out, or take a 1v3, which gets kinda hard when there are so many bunkers around. I normally play in high gold-mid plat depending on if I take friends along that drag me down, but never do I get matches that bad. It's definitely true that mesmer has the escape, but so does deadeye with it's insane uptime on stealth, stunbreak, and teleports, along with the reveal remove. To call mermer escape "broken" would be an overstatement, and same to it's damage. It can sustain better than F/A weaver in many cases, but makes a pretty good 1v1 against them, or a deadeye. It definitely needs a little touching up, but nowhere near the realm of broken that people scream about. Take that out into T1 WvW and try to fight and see how well it works for you. Whole different ball game when people want you dead specifically, which is what they should be doing in PvP as you are a mobile high damage character.

I honestly can't trust people of lower rank calling plat people crap.

Yeah this dude is funny, talking down Plat players when he admits he is high gold...he even said himself that he is not a good mesmer and now he is talking about 1v3 lol yeah guess the prefession is not overtuned and carrying people beyond their skill level...

"Talking down plat players when he's in high gold" - Please at least read in my comment where I quite clearly stated that I got down there by playing with friends that are bad at PvP. You know, to grow the scene and get them experience to hopefully get them to come back and bring more people in. Also, did you actually watch his video? Did anyone ever really try to focus the mesmer? How can you possibly think that's good gameplay? Isn't targeting high priority targets smart? I've played a lot of fresh air ele and absolutely love spiking down players and laughing as no one focuses me and I snowball matches. Maybe I play against good players unlike you, but I get focused on spike builds by players that actually know how to play this game. So yes, while am not a great mesmer, I have been playing PvP and spike builds in competitive since before any expansions came out. Almost 6 years here, so please, actually watch that video, go watch some tournaments, and learn, before assuming me dragging my rank down by bringing people into PvP is at all representative of my knowledge of the game mode and spike builds.

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@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Most reductions to Mesmers in my 5+ years in the game has been severe. Of course there are more clones now and shattering is more frequent.
That was the stated goal of the rework.
It even serves to make Mesmers a little bit confusing.
I have to admit, when I hear of a nerf to Mesmer, I now assuming that it will be crippling. I'm scared that I'm seeing another glamour nerf on the horizon.

The fact that some find it unpleasant to play against Mesmers is not a rationale to nerf.

Please ANET, I "grew up" as a Mesmer,(in the year plus,) after the glamour nerf, when the class was widely acknowledged to be "trash tier" and hambow warriors ruled the world.

I humbly request, as a long time player, that you not cripple my class.

My point is: ANET has a long history of nerfs to Mesmer that turned out to be very heavy. Given this, ANET would be prudent to be cautious and under react rather than over react.

When was Mesmer ever 'trash tier"? If my memory dont fails me, Mesmer had allways been meta, on all game modes! This have nothing to deal with it anyway, the fact is that Mesmer and its specs are way to powerfull, need some good nerfs...to me they should just remove evade frames from attacks, or greatly reduce the % of damage, attack+defence on a single skill is not good, huge damage+defence is broken, this is valid for all professions that have this kind of stuff, be evades or damage invulnerabilities.

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

You completely missed the point. I never said that I was a good mesmer, why do you think that I even said that. It was the entire point in fact that I'm not as good as you think that I'm claiming to be. The point that you missed is that mesmers have a lot AVAILABLE, but that doesn't make them overpowered. They still take a lot of skill to use. Compare this to a spellbreaker that literally any moron con run with invulns on invulns. You don't have to be good to play a spellbreaker and be incredibly effective, but you do on a mesmer. Skill floor is a part of balance. If I wanted easy wins, I'd just go play an easy class. INstead, I am playing a class that's actually hard and when I kill people, it means I'm better than them, not that I have an easy class. If I wanted to take a nap while winning games, I'd load up a scourge or spellbreaker. With how easy those are to play, and be insanely effective, I don't see how you could call mesmer OP comparatively.

Mirage is as easy to play and win on as any spellbreaker. You're kidding yourself if you think a win on a mirage is due to player skill.

As is shown here:

I have a whopping 80 hours played on mes over the last 5 yearsAnd you have some seriously low skilled opponents. You won fair and square. The best matchup with with the ranger, and that fight was won because of a +1. The rest was basically people ignoring you and paying the price. Same thing happens if you ignore a fresh air or rifle stealth thief. Doesn't make it broken, it means that players actually need to, you know, think about which target to attack? Most players these days all look at the thing that isn't dying and attack that to kill it, not thinking about where damage is coming from. I've had a team of 4 people that COMPLETELY IGNORED a thief, not even in stealth, just sniping and yelled at me constantly for dying to him when no one would even look his way. Glass connons have a place, and they absolutely wreck low skilled players every time. I really don't know at all what you are complaining about unless you just want all power builds gone from the game, while everyone also complains that we have a bunker meta and that's bad. People need to die in order to make a match fun, and players that ignore the cannon will do so. Just watch out for players with brains, you won't last as long, and if you do, you are just running, not killing.

I'm not complaining, I love playing mesmer. I'm showing that the skill floor is very low for its degree of effectiveness. I'm showing that it doesn't die even in zerker gear. I went 29:1 kdr on a game today, I've only played maybe 10 games with this build lmao.

Ok, thought this was another "Look, I've played this for 2 minutes and I'm God, too OP" responses that seem so popular. In lower levels of play the skill floor is very low yes, which is fantastic. Much like the rifle thief. Those that see this low level floor and think that means that it's an easy build at high levels, not so much. High levels start putting your skill to the test, not just how well constructed your build is. Unless you play pre-nerf scourge, that was horrible. Won several matches with that while literally while mostly watching a movie. We won so bad I thought we were the losing team and I caused it by not paying attention. Was too broken. Mesmer needs some tweaks, but is not broken.

Mes is very much so broken, those are Plat matches man lol. It has crazy high evade/stealth/blind uptime and great mobility/disengage. You should almost never die on one

Those were plat matches? Wow have things gotten worse in the last few days. I wish I had your leck of getting crap opponents like that. Most of my opponents are smart enough to realize that I'm murdering everyone and I'm forced to get out, or take a 1v3, which gets kinda hard when there are so many bunkers around. I normally play in high gold-mid plat depending on if I take friends along that drag me down, but never do I get matches that bad. It's definitely true that mesmer has the escape, but so does deadeye with it's insane uptime on stealth, stunbreak, and teleports, along with the reveal remove. To call mermer escape "broken" would be an overstatement, and same to it's damage. It can sustain better than F/A weaver in many cases, but makes a pretty good 1v1 against them, or a deadeye. It definitely needs a little touching up, but nowhere near the realm of broken that people scream about. Take that out into T1 WvW and try to fight and see how well it works for you. Whole different ball game when people want you dead specifically, which is what they should be doing in PvP as you are a mobile high damage character.

I honestly can't trust people of lower rank calling plat people crap.

Yeah this dude is funny, talking down Plat players when he admits he is high gold...he even said himself that he is not a good mesmer and now he is talking about 1v3 lol yeah guess the prefession is not overtuned and carrying people beyond their skill level...

"Talking down plat players when he's in high gold" - Please at least read in my comment where I quite clearly stated that I got down there by playing with friends that are bad at PvP. You know, to grow the scene and get them experience to hopefully get them to come back and bring more people in. Also, did you actually watch his video? Did anyone ever really try to focus the mesmer? How can you possibly think that's good gameplay? Isn't targeting high priority targets smart? I've played a lot of fresh air ele and absolutely love spiking down players and laughing as no one focuses me and I snowball matches. Maybe I play against good players unlike you, but I get focused on spike builds by players that actually know how to play this game. So yes, while am not a great mesmer, I have been playing PvP and spike builds in competitive since before any expansions came out. Almost 6 years here, so please, actually watch that video, go watch some tournaments, and learn, before assuming me dragging my rank down by bringing people into PvP is at all representative of my knowledge of the game mode and spike builds.

Unfortunately the mmr will always bring in underranked people to high rank games, which makes burst classes super useful. Easy to burst the noob and 4v5 the game

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@Egorum.9506 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Most reductions to Mesmers in my 5+ years in the game has been severe. Of course there are more clones now and shattering is more frequent.
That was the stated goal of the rework.
It even serves to make Mesmers a little bit confusing.
I have to admit, when I hear of a nerf to Mesmer, I now assuming that it will be crippling. I'm scared that I'm seeing another glamour nerf on the horizon.

The fact that some find it unpleasant to play against Mesmers is not a rationale to nerf.

Please ANET, I "grew up" as a Mesmer,(in the year plus,) after the glamour nerf, when the class was widely acknowledged to be "trash tier" and hambow warriors ruled the world.

I humbly request, as a long time player, that you not cripple my class.

My point is: ANET has a long history of nerfs to Mesmer that turned out to be very heavy. Given this, ANET would be prudent to be cautious and under react rather than over react.

When was Mesmer ever 'trash tier"? If my memory dont fails me, Mesmer had allways been meta, on all game modes! This have nothing to deal with it anyway, the fact is that Mesmer and its specs are way to powerfull, need some good nerfs...to me they should just remove evade frames from attacks, or greatly reduce the % of damage, attack+defence on a single skill is not good, huge damage+defence is broken, this is valid for all professions that have this kind of stuff, be evades or damage invulnerabilities.

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

You completely missed the point. I never said that I was a good mesmer, why do you think that I even said that. It was the entire point in fact that I'm not as good as you think that I'm claiming to be. The point that you missed is that mesmers have a lot AVAILABLE, but that doesn't make them overpowered. They still take a lot of skill to use. Compare this to a spellbreaker that literally any moron con run with invulns on invulns. You don't have to be good to play a spellbreaker and be incredibly effective, but you do on a mesmer. Skill floor is a part of balance. If I wanted easy wins, I'd just go play an easy class. INstead, I am playing a class that's actually hard and when I kill people, it means I'm better than them, not that I have an easy class. If I wanted to take a nap while winning games, I'd load up a scourge or spellbreaker. With how easy those are to play, and be insanely effective, I don't see how you could call mesmer OP comparatively.

Mirage is as easy to play and win on as any spellbreaker. You're kidding yourself if you think a win on a mirage is due to player skill.

As is shown here:

I have a whopping 80 hours played on mes over the last 5 yearsAnd you have some seriously low skilled opponents. You won fair and square. The best matchup with with the ranger, and that fight was won because of a +1. The rest was basically people ignoring you and paying the price. Same thing happens if you ignore a fresh air or rifle stealth thief. Doesn't make it broken, it means that players actually need to, you know, think about which target to attack? Most players these days all look at the thing that isn't dying and attack that to kill it, not thinking about where damage is coming from. I've had a team of 4 people that COMPLETELY IGNORED a thief, not even in stealth, just sniping and yelled at me constantly for dying to him when no one would even look his way. Glass connons have a place, and they absolutely wreck low skilled players every time. I really don't know at all what you are complaining about unless you just want all power builds gone from the game, while everyone also complains that we have a bunker meta and that's bad. People need to die in order to make a match fun, and players that ignore the cannon will do so. Just watch out for players with brains, you won't last as long, and if you do, you are just running, not killing.

I'm not complaining, I love playing mesmer. I'm showing that the skill floor is very low for its degree of effectiveness. I'm showing that it doesn't die even in zerker gear. I went 29:1 kdr on a game today, I've only played maybe 10 games with this build lmao.

Ok, thought this was another "Look, I've played this for 2 minutes and I'm God, too OP" responses that seem so popular. In lower levels of play the skill floor is very low yes, which is fantastic. Much like the rifle thief. Those that see this low level floor and think that means that it's an easy build at high levels, not so much. High levels start putting your skill to the test, not just how well constructed your build is. Unless you play pre-nerf scourge, that was horrible. Won several matches with that while literally while mostly watching a movie. We won so bad I thought we were the losing team and I caused it by not paying attention. Was too broken. Mesmer needs some tweaks, but is not broken.

Mes is very much so broken, those are Plat matches man lol. It has crazy high evade/stealth/blind uptime and great mobility/disengage. You should almost never die on one

Those were plat matches? Wow have things gotten worse in the last few days. I wish I had your leck of getting crap opponents like that. Most of my opponents are smart enough to realize that I'm murdering everyone and I'm forced to get out, or take a 1v3, which gets kinda hard when there are so many bunkers around. I normally play in high gold-mid plat depending on if I take friends along that drag me down, but never do I get matches that bad. It's definitely true that mesmer has the escape, but so does deadeye with it's insane uptime on stealth, stunbreak, and teleports, along with the reveal remove. To call mermer escape "broken" would be an overstatement, and same to it's damage. It can sustain better than F/A weaver in many cases, but makes a pretty good 1v1 against them, or a deadeye. It definitely needs a little touching up, but nowhere near the realm of broken that people scream about. Take that out into T1 WvW and try to fight and see how well it works for you. Whole different ball game when people want you dead specifically, which is what they should be doing in PvP as you are a mobile high damage character.

I honestly can't trust people of lower rank calling plat people crap.

Yeah this dude is funny, talking down Plat players when he admits he is high gold...he even said himself that he is not a good mesmer and now he is talking about 1v3 lol yeah guess the prefession is not overtuned and carrying people beyond their skill level...

"Talking down plat players when he's in high gold" - Please at least read in my comment where I quite clearly stated that I got down there by playing with friends that are bad at PvP. You know, to grow the scene and get them experience to hopefully get them to come back and bring more people in. Also, did you actually watch his video? Did anyone ever really try to focus the mesmer? How can you possibly think that's good gameplay? Isn't targeting high priority targets smart? I've played a lot of fresh air ele and absolutely love spiking down players and laughing as no one focuses me and I snowball matches. Maybe I play against good players unlike you, but I get focused on spike builds by players that actually know how to play this game. So yes, while am not a great mesmer, I have been playing PvP and spike builds in competitive since before any expansions came out. Almost 6 years here, so please, actually watch that video, go watch some tournaments, and learn, before assuming me dragging my rank down by bringing people into PvP is at all representative of my knowledge of the game mode and spike builds.

Unfortunately the mmr will always bring in underranked people to high rank games, which makes burst classes super useful. Easy to burst the noob and 4v5 the game

I think you mean bring low rank players up, not underranked (Meaning they are under the rank they deserve). I sort of agree with that, but also don't. If you find bad players in high ranks, I would also say that means that the people that didn't target the glass build are worse, and therefore should be lower ranked. Just shows you where the skill level starts is higher than you'd expect. I've had countless games where no one would pressure rifle thieves while in low plat trying to go higher, but I wasn't playing any builds that could counter those in some matches. My teammates just let people get blasted down and even after asking several times to get backup on killing them, no one would respond, and that was game. When running mesmer or F/A ele or other counter builds, I know to handle them. Spike builds have very specific roles they need to fill or they are pretty useless, but that also means that the other team needs to have the brains to actually deal with them. I honestly think that nothing under plat2 requires literally any skill to play in our current game. I've started running builds that I could cary teams with if I ever wanted to win and get out of that range because that's the only way out. When I have a team in low plat that I carry a game by running far point on blood scourge to win the match, you know the skill cap is low. That's the worst possible place for a blood scourge, but that's what cause the win. sigh We need to have a tutorial mode to maybe get player knowledge of this game up, but that's totally off topic of mesmers, and we should get back on topic. Mesmers can carry games, yes, but it's always been that way with portals, but so can a F/A ele

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