Mesmer deceives its way past the PVP & WVW split

[rank eleven monk.9502]

@thijsken.5031 said:Portal has been in need of a nerf for years now. By far the most impactful skill in pvp, ports around your intire team ( mutiple times if wanted) across the map on a very low CD while not even being an elite skill.Here we go again...

[Exciton.8942]

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

How is mirage the culprit?

There are some mesmer skills in general overtuned for damage. But for mirage only, the EM nerf alone is already very heavy.

Mirage power completely revolves around ambushes and EM. Nerfing EM the way you do means less dodges which again result in less ambushes. The whole mirage trait line is honestly pretty garbage already except for this trait, i.e. EM.

Instead of looking at mirage, you should just focus on tuning down some high damage skill like phantasmal disechanter, avenger. Maybe even 0 and 1 clone mind wrack, so you can encourage setting up multiple clone burst rather than just mirror blade into mind wrack.

Another trait you might consider nerfing in confounding suggestion ICD. 5s ICD gives it a bit too strong synergy with daze mantra.

[storm.3120]

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Although the complaints about Mirage Power are way over the top (lot of people simply don't understand how the mirage works and how to negate them, e.g. using the no-evade frames to burst them), I agree that Mirage needs some slight toning IF the other nerfs are bound to happen (e.g. holo, spellbreaker, etc.). I'm a power mirage since PoF release (and a very long time mesmer pvper), so I have some understanding about the issues.

My suggestions is to focus on the full burst builds, not the traditional GS skills of power mesmer:

• leave GS skills alone, maybe revise GS4 thrown damage, but that's it. if you touch anything else, power will become obsolote forever in pvp. If you actually reduce thrown damage of GS4, it should be around 10-15% decrease imo. Power mesmer has only been a problem since the last patch in PvP.
• Phantasmal Haste: it should still give Quickness to Phantasms, but the player should receive Quickness AFTER the phantasm transforms to a clone. This way you reduce the instant burst. This is a very important step to make imo.
• Imagined Burden: Reduces berserker phantasm damage by 30% instead of 25%. Or, change it to reduce the phantasm damage by 50% and bring back a small might on hit (like it used to be)
• Mental Anguish: Damage Increase: 10/15%, Damage Increase vs. Inactivity: 25% (this trait have to stay useful)
• Superiority Complex: I don't feel this really powerful, but maybe we can go to: Critical Damage Increase: 10% Bonus Critical Damage Increase: 10%
• Revising Mirage Thrust range. Current range is 600. Could be 500 if you wan't to reduce the mobility. But definitely not less.
• Elusive Mind not sure about this. could be good, but on a lower CD. Exhaustion is exactly the opposite of mirage mechanic, might kill the spec altogether. Internal ICD?
• All the other nerfs proposed by Anet should go forward . Those are not significant, but still reducing the overall strength

My proposed changes are definitely not major, but a few of these combined would have a significant impact on the more gimmicky builds (full zerk + MA + SC), while still promoting the active and more skill-friendly builds of power mirage (for example PB-based builds).

Now, I don't think you should execute all of these changes AND the ones listed in the notes. If you do that, power mirage is probably be in a state where you can't kill anything with it. Disclaimer: power mirage was not suitable for top level pvp before the last major update. Consider this when you are choosing the nerfs. Feel free to cherry pick your choices.

EM is carried mirage all the way and w/o its never felt effective . + Mirage leap ... can they fix it and make it actually hit ? 60-70% of leaps never landed because how retarded they made this jump ,also sword is a reason why mirage is good , leap gives good mobility .About other nerfs ... I kinda dont mind small damage nerfs as long others being brought in line ,exhaust they give on mesmer wouldnt make sense but w/e , chrono would be next for nerfs after EM nerfMeanwhile i would like to see ANET response about 2 steals and how broken plasma is , any reason to give them all boons in the game ? resistance/quickness/alacrity on top of all others for 10s?:D

[Quadox.7834]

@Exciton.8942 said:

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

How is mirage the culprit?

There are some mesmer skills in general overtuned for damage. But for mirage only, the EM nerf alone is already very heavy.

Mirage power completely revolves around ambushes and EM. Nerfing EM the way you do means less dodges which again result in less ambushes. The whole mirage trait line is honestly pretty garbage already except for this trait, i.e. EM.

Instead of looking at mirage, you should just focus on tuning down some high damage skill like phantasmal disechanter, avenger. Maybe even 0 and 1 clone mind wrack, so you can encourage setting up multiple clone burst rather than just mirror blade into mind wrack.

Another trait you might consider nerfing in confounding suggestion ICD. 5s ICD gives it a bit too strong synergy with daze mantra.

Play a comparable core shatter mesmer build for a while (in plat+ at least) and compare is to mirage shatter. The difference will be obvious. Mirage has the huge problem of being almost unpunishable due to the ability to dodge in immob/stun/while using skills. It also has immense mobility which makes it even harder to chase down. It also has daze on sword leap which synergizes with Confounding Suggestions and Power Block.

You are right however in that core Mesmer also has some problems. Disenchanter should be reworked (more clear animation + lower damage probably). Confounding Suggestions should be reworked (not just icd increase). Phantasm spam could be toned down a bit as it produces too much visual noise especially with traited greatsword / staff phantasm / chronophantasma. It looks and feels too spammy.

[Rym.1469]

The idea of turning stuns/knockdowns/knockbacks into dazes looks relatively smooth. Possibly cap it at >2-2,5s so long stuns that are generally tied to big skills (Jade Winds, Skull Crack) can still be deadly and rewarding (duration calculated after reductions, so things like Melandru runes could take effect first). Add some small cherry on top and should do for a grandmaster.

[Curunen.8729]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

I have a few thoughts on the listed mesmer changes, but to sum them up in one sentence - I think they are pretty bad. They don't address the burst issues mesmer has, they don't address the fact that we can have sustain in chrono and still pull off a deadly burst, but most importantly (to me) is the nerf to EM. I never agreed with the exhaustion mechanic back when it was placed on UC, but it especially doesn't make sense on EM. Mirage does not offer flat endurance regen, so exhaustion cuts out all of our endurance regen while we have it. But more than that, Mirage uses dodges offensively, whereas UC was a purely defensive skill. Not only do we not have the flat endurance regen to sort of offput the exhaustion in a limited scope, but we also lose out on a lot of potential offensive pressure, all while having 50 less endurance to start with than DD got. Simply put, the exhaustion has a significantly higher burden on Mirage than it does on DD.

Take a look at the mesmer forums for some better ideas on EM. My favorites are to either simply remove the stunbreak (potentially adding something else there), give the stunbreak a ~10sec ICD, but have an UI element showing when it is available (such as changing the color of our endurance bar), or change it so that it turns stuns into dazes, allowing us to move but not use skills (the opposite of confounding suggestions)

Along with that, I would propose the following changes to mesmer

• Shatter Storm needs to be removed
  or
  at the very least given the Imagined burden treatment wherein each charge of MW would be about 25% weaker than a regular MW
• Chronophantasma should be changed so that the phantasms do not become clones at all. Getting 2 phantasms from a single skill is enough of a tradeoff to not obtain any clones at all. This would go quite a ways to combat clone generation spam in chrono builds atm.

But other than that I would like to leave the class more or less alone for right now (the rest of your listed changes look good to me btw). It just had its complete overhaul and I am scared of you guys reactively nerfing too much of it because just a few pieces are overperforming, and turning it into trash. I think that Em and the 2 above changes are some of the biggest pain points right now, and would like to change those and re-evaluate the class a few weeks after it goes live to see what else should be changed.

100% this.

I was going to type a reply but Ori has summed it up perfectly along with several other points.

Anet please be careful what you do with EM. It can easily go from overpowered to not only useless but actually bad for you.

Mirage is not like Daredevil - we can already dodge while stunned - exhaustion is a negative impact such that the only real benefit of EM will be the condi cleanse. Why take a trait that does more harm than good?

I also would prefer the solution of 10s ICD on stunbreak portion only, with clear UI notification - an icon in the status bar and colour change of endurance bar or similar clear visual effect to indicate when EM stunbreak is on/off cool down. Of course the condi cleanse should not have any ICD whatsoever.

Alternatively the solution of converting any stun into a daze with NO ICD would also be acceptable. That would reduce offensive counterplay and make EM a purely defensive focused trait.

[Vicko.1204]

Don't focus on mirage. The main problems come from phantasms and core mesmer traits,mainly from the recent rework. Chrono power is also super strong. By nerfing mirage even more you basicaly destroy it. Lots of people gave very good suggestios. Power mesmer indeed needs more nerfs. Mainly damage ones, shatter storm and a change to daze/mantra combo into stun. But not the mirage traitline.

[Razor.6392]

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@"Razor.6392" said:Don't forget the disorienting nature of mirage. Many spells break targeting and some others reposition yourself and your clones. Even with a build with lots of AoE, you cannot quickly identify which one is the real player.This is purely a learn to play issue since release. And no, target breaking is rare. And yes, you can very quickly identify the real mesmer.

Tell me what's the trick when you have four mesmer illusions using infinite horizon, zapping you from max distance without moving at all. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Ambush and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axes_of_Symmetry)

I will give you all my items and account if you can tell me how, without having to damage the clones themselves. I'm not saying it is impossible, but you cannot do it right away.

If you can't do it then I really hope you don't quote me again and keep quiet next time.

[Tigaseye.2047]

Why do so few people play it, in WvW, then?

I do play it and find it's good in some ways, but pretty bad in others.

Survivability under heavy AOE is hard work, to say the least, for example.

I constantly have to hold back, until my shield is up and even then, it's jump in really carefully and then dodge back, again.

Mostly it's tentative support, with the only real advantage being you can hopefully escape, when it all goes wrong and there's a wipe.

I assume that is why most people don't play it in WvW, despite saying it's OP?

[storm.3120]

@Razor.6392 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Don't forget the disorienting nature of mirage. Many spells break targeting and some others reposition yourself and your clones. Even with a build with lots of AoE, you cannot quickly identify which one is the real player.This is purely a learn to play issue since release. And no, target breaking is rare. And yes, you can very quickly identify the real mesmer.

Tell me what's the trick when you have four mesmer illusions using infinite horizon, zapping you from max distance without moving at all. (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Ambush

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axes_of_Symmetry

)

I will give you all my items and account if you can tell me how, without having to damage the clones themselves. I'm not saying it is impossible, but you cannot do it right away.

If you can't do it then I really hope you don't quote me again and keep quiet next time.

I bet you wont give me your all items and account if i would answer ,right ? Just fancy words to shut up someone ?

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

1. Buff sceptre auto
2. Nerf staff 3 flat damage.
3. More duration for applied confusion or remove confusion totally from the game .
4. Nerf I defender damage .
5. Reduce chronophantasma second phantasm damage.
6. make the ELUSIVE MIND trait break stun only 1 time in 10sec instead of Exhaustion because mirage got only 2 dodges not like thief he got 3 dodges and thief have access to the signet and healing that give him endurance the mirage don't have such a thing and the dodges are used for mobility and evades and ambush skill and of course as a stun break so this change will make this trait an handicap especially vs power damage creeps warrior/Holo/thief/power rev/core gard/soulbeast
7. Make an utility that give endurance after illusive mind nerf .
8. Make Continuum Split res you if you get downed increase it cooldown by 15 sec or more.
9. Bring back confusion to the axe skill's, increase flat damage for axe skills and confusion duration, or keep the current confusion duration and increase damage on skill use
10. Fix Cry of Frustration it's useless compared to mind wrack low flat damage and low condition damage.
11. mantras arn't used much, nerfing them well banish them to oblivion the only used mantra is Mantra of Distraction maybe increase cool down on daze to 7 sec .
12. plz consider that mesmer is as squishy as a thief one cc from a warrior or a holo and he is dead reducing his survivability and damage in the same time will destroy him .
13. condi builds are bad at the moment but the power damage from the phantasms is covering for them consider that too.
14. power mirage builds are good in term of damage bad in term of survivability .
15. power bunker chrono is good in term of survivability and points holding if played by experienced players only consider that too .
16. Fix the mirage utility skills, the teleport when using mele weapon is useless.
17. Consider that the people complaining about mesmer being op on the forum are the same everytime .Tnks

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

See, this is something that I appreciate.

[Razor.6392]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Don't forget the disorienting nature of mirage. Many spells break targeting and some others reposition yourself and your clones. Even with a build with lots of AoE, you cannot quickly identify which one is the real player.This is purely a learn to play issue since release. And no, target breaking is rare. And yes, you can very quickly identify the real mesmer.

Tell me what's the trick when you have four mesmer illusions using infinite horizon, zapping you from max distance without moving at all. (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Ambush

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axes_of_Symmetry

)

I will give you all my items and account if you can tell me how, without having to damage the clones themselves. I'm not saying it is impossible, but you cannot do it right away.

If you can't do it then I really hope you don't quote me again and keep quiet next time.

I bet you wont give me your all items and account if i would answer ,right ? Just fancy words to shut up someone ?

Oh surely do tell me. I know of the ranked badge trick, but really, how do you identify 4 non-moving clones (one of which is the real mesmer) after they use illusionary ambush? I'm really curious and equally anxious to learn something new.

[storm.3120]

@Razor.6392 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Don't forget the disorienting nature of mirage. Many spells break targeting and some others reposition yourself and your clones. Even with a build with lots of AoE, you cannot quickly identify which one is the real player.This is purely a learn to play issue since release. And no, target breaking is rare. And yes, you can very quickly identify the real mesmer.

Tell me what's the trick when you have four mesmer illusions using infinite horizon, zapping you from max distance without moving at all. (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Ambush

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axes_of_Symmetry

)

I will give you all my items and account if you can tell me how, without having to damage the clones themselves. I'm not saying it is impossible, but you cannot do it right away.

If you can't do it then I really hope you don't quote me again and keep quiet next time.

I bet you wont give me your all items and account if i would answer ,right ? Just fancy words to shut up someone ?

Oh surely do tell me. I know of the ranked badge trick, but really, how do you identify 4 non-moving clones (one of which is the real mesmer) after they use illusionary ambush? I'm really curious and equally anxious to learn something new.

In exchange for your account please as you mentioned

[Meteor.3720]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@"Cal Cohen.3527" said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

12. plz consider that mesmer is as squishy as a thief one cc with the warrior or holo and he is dead reducing his survivability and damage in the same time will destroy him

lol

[Razor.6392]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Don't forget the disorienting nature of mirage. Many spells break targeting and some others reposition yourself and your clones. Even with a build with lots of AoE, you cannot quickly identify which one is the real player.This is purely a learn to play issue since release. And no, target breaking is rare. And yes, you can very quickly identify the real mesmer.

Tell me what's the trick when you have four mesmer illusions using infinite horizon, zapping you from max distance without moving at all. (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Ambush

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axes_of_Symmetry

)

I will give you all my items and account if you can tell me how, without having to damage the clones themselves. I'm not saying it is impossible, but you cannot do it right away.

If you can't do it then I really hope you don't quote me again and keep quiet next time.

I bet you wont give me your all items and account if i would answer ,right ? Just fancy words to shut up someone ?

Oh surely do tell me. I know of the ranked badge trick, but really, how do you identify 4 non-moving clones (one of which is the real mesmer) after they use illusionary ambush? I'm really curious and equally anxious to learn something new.

In exchange for your account please as you mentioned

There is no way is there?

[storm.3120]

@Razor.6392 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Don't forget the disorienting nature of mirage. Many spells break targeting and some others reposition yourself and your clones. Even with a build with lots of AoE, you cannot quickly identify which one is the real player.This is purely a learn to play issue since release. And no, target breaking is rare. And yes, you can very quickly identify the real mesmer.

Tell me what's the trick when you have four mesmer illusions using infinite horizon, zapping you from max distance without moving at all. (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Ambush

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axes_of_Symmetry

)

I will give you all my items and account if you can tell me how, without having to damage the clones themselves. I'm not saying it is impossible, but you cannot do it right away.

If you can't do it then I really hope you don't quote me again and keep quiet next time.

I bet you wont give me your all items and account if i would answer ,right ? Just fancy words to shut up someone ?

Oh surely do tell me. I know of the ranked badge trick, but really, how do you identify 4 non-moving clones (one of which is the real mesmer) after they use illusionary ambush? I'm really curious and equally anxious to learn something new.

In exchange for your account please as you mentioned

There is no way is there?

But you said you will give items with an account ?! BABYRAGE (could privately tell you...may be... wink wink)

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Warrior is anets fav child...always have been

Side note, condi mes was gutted in WvW/PvP and now its possible the DPS mes could potentially be as well. If mes was golden child, condi mes wouldn't have gotten as badly hit as it was. Looks like mes potentially could be as useful as a rev :p

[trueanimus.4085]

AbsolutelyThey are only doing these nerfs because in the tourney it was decided that to make anet take notice, the teams ran 4 scourges and 1 firebrand. Thats one reason they are nerfing scourge again... because everyone thinks that they are OP... when in reality, they need some serious buffs.

The reaper spec is dead and has been since Nov patch.. which forced all necros into scourge.

Scorge is only a heavy aoe condi bomb now for about 1-2 seconds.. then the rest of our time is running away and waiting on 45-60 second cooldowns while we deal with no stability, getting hit with no shroud or extra health bar and almost no damage on any of our melee wep sets.

The only reason scourge is a problem in wvw is that everyone runs it because it does offer some aoe to tag kills and is bunker heavy by nature... although not so much as it used to be.

Condi needs a buff to bring it back to the level of damage of firebrand. Fire is the most powerful condi in game and firebrand can stack 12-16 stacks almost constantly while necro does get multiple conditions, they can not stack any of them above 4 stacks and that is with a full rotation. Taking away all 'on skill activation' dropped our dps below every other class.

Instead of looking to nerf necro, you need to look at the balance of the rest of the classes to either necro level.. or buff necro to match the rest.

The teams that won the tourney shouldn't be a do all end all for your balance patch basis.

[Meteor.3720]

@trueanimus.4085 said:

Absolutelywhen in reality, they need some serious buffs.lolThe reaper spec is dead and has been since Nov patch.. which forced all necros into scourge.lol

[Quadox.7834]

@Vicko.1204 said:Don't focus on mirage. The main problems come from phantasms and core mesmer traits,mainly from the recent rework. Chrono power is also super strong. By nerfing mirage even more you basicaly destroy it. Lots of people gave very good suggestios. Power mesmer indeed needs more nerfs. Mainly damage ones, shatter storm and a change to daze/mantra combo into stun. But not the mirage traitline.

Okay, show us how good base power Mesmer is. As compared to Mirage shatter or Chrono.

[Vicko.1204]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Vicko.1204 said:Don't focus on mirage. The main problems come from phantasms and core mesmer traits,mainly from the recent rework. Chrono power is also super strong. By nerfing mirage even more you basicaly destroy it. Lots of people gave very good suggestios. Power mesmer indeed needs more nerfs. Mainly damage ones, shatter storm and a change to daze/mantra combo into stun. But not the mirage traitline.

Okay, show us how good base power Mesmer is. As compared to Mirage shatter or Chrono.

Like I said,chrono is also powerful.Along with mirage.That means,the things that make both specs strong are the new changes of core mesmer traits.Chrono and mirage just make these things shine even more.There were no phantasms criting for 10k before the rework.Chrono and mirage couldnt double mind wrack before the rework.Why nobody cared about power chrono and power mirage (aside from wvw roaming power mirage) but now they do?It's because of the recent rework.Come on now man.You act like I'm not asking for nerfs.I said power needs more nerfs and especially the new reworked traits.

[Ghos.1326]

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

Hey Cmc, I'm kinda confused what you guys mean by splits? Meaning any suggestions we make need to be split between PvP and WvW?

When splitting a skill we're looking at changing numbers on skills rather than functionality.

• Damage/healing numbers
• Cooldowns
• Durations of boons/conditions/effects

Essentially the skill should behave the same in every game mode, but can be more or less effective at what it does on a per-gamemode basis.

Thanks for the clarification!

Would you guys also consider suggestions to skills that weren't listed in the proposed changes?

Absolutely

Hello Cal. Promise this won't be salty, but will instead be honest, constructive feedback for this next update.So, like many others, I really feel that the burst numbers generated by Mesmer needs to be toned down. I don't think it should be toned down to the point of annihilation, but to a point where one burst doesn't take you 90% health.I don't play Mesmers much, but I do know that the 2x mind wrack with how high their burst potential is really makes for frustrating gameplay, with almost no counterplay to it at all, considering how much evade/mobility/shields/stun breaks they have as well to compliment. Maybe putting some of their higher hitting skills on a slightly longer CD as well could remedy this? (example 6 seconds to 10 seconds or possibly 12).

Holo changes are fine in my opinion, but if you do revert to keeping corona burst as it is now (please don't....) then, please lower the uptime of stab drastically, because right now, it's basically perma stab for a holosmith, putting it into the fitting category of "this profession and build choice does exceedingly well in multiple roles" when it should only do exceedingly well in one role, and AT MOST decently well in 1 or 2 other roles, depending on build choice.

I think the elongation of cooldowns for a lot of passive defensive skills is pretty good, though protection injection was already kind of at a place where the cooldown was long. Seeing as so many things in the game now deals a lot of damage, protection doesn't offer too much in terms of defensive capability, especially against bursters, and some bursters (thief) can just rip off your boons as soon as you get them anyways, so maybe look into adjusting the frequency of boon rip for some professions?

I think the druid changes are great, they were overbearingly strong for what they were rolled as, being able to not only bunker a point, but heal to full almost immediately, as well as KILL their opponent in a 1v1 skirmish. While i like the idea of them being bruiser-ish, the buffs given to the pets really cause some chaos for opponents. Not saying nerf pet damage, but maybe adjust pet skill numbers, cooldowns on some attacks, or adjust the amount of boons shared with the pets, that way super high damaging pets can at least be taken out to hamper a ranger's capability to deal large amounts of damage, producing some counterplay to their mechanic as well as giving some different playstyle choices when it comes to pets in general.

A trait on Engineer needs some looking into. Mass momentum. If I am not mistaken, you guys mentioned something about the flamethrower really synergizing well with this trait. But, with the recent changes to flamethrower, this doesn't really add up anymore. Also, about the flamethrower kit in general, i know it's supposed to be a kit that keeps burns on opponents, but what is its true role? team fight? solo 1v1 skirmishing? the Juggernaut trait also needs some looking into, as it would suggest that you need to be quite the tanky guy to make use of that stability and that might gain, not to mention it is more of a close ranged weapon, but it doesn't really give anything in terms of survivability, just options against an opponent that would try to negate your momentum with cc. Will we see anything done with the flamethrower's skills to make it stand out? it's 2 skill could instead be a ground targeted eruption instead of a slow moving ball that's easy to avoid and doesn't really offer much in terms of play besides the burns. Also, the line of fire from the flamethrower 4 skill could also be a ring of fire, with burning procs inside of the ring instead of just a line of fire, would make more sense as you would scorch the earth and set it ablaze. Flamethrower 5 skill could also use a rework, like maybe have a 3 second cloud of smoke that causes attacks to miss, or a 2 second cloud of smoke for 2 pulses of missing for a more defensive feel (mobile smoke field, much like warrior's mobile fire field on torch 5). Maybe?

overcharged shot on engineer could be unblockable cc, but damage could still be blocked if the opponent is blocking.

If I think of any others, I'll post them here.

[OriOri.8724]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

I have a few thoughts on the listed mesmer changes, but to sum them up in one sentence - I think they are pretty bad. They don't address the burst issues mesmer has, they don't address the fact that we can have sustain in chrono and still pull off a deadly burst, but most importantly (to me) is the nerf to EM. I never agreed with the exhaustion mechanic back when it was placed on UC, but it especially doesn't make sense on EM. Mirage does not offer flat endurance regen, so exhaustion cuts out all of our endurance regen while we have it. But more than that, Mirage uses dodges offensively, whereas UC was a purely defensive skill. Not only do we not have the flat endurance regen to sort of offput the exhaustion in a limited scope, but we also lose out on a lot of potential offensive pressure, all while having 50 less endurance to start with than DD got. Simply put, the exhaustion has a significantly higher burden on Mirage than it does on DD.

Clearing the condition and breaking the stun are icing o the cake that is EM. The real issue is that you can do other actions while being invulnerable.

Adding a cool down to stun break wont fix the issue. A price has to be paid for the invulnerability while taking offensive actions, the exhaustion time is fair.

edit: isn't this dodge duration also .25s longer than other dodges?

I was mad as hell when they nerfed UC, thought it was the worst thing for DD

........ Do you even understand what EM is? Because we can keep attacking through mirage cloak even without taking EM. Many mesmer players noticed immediately how strong EM was as soon as we saw what it was, before we even had access to the betas, and we tried to get Anet to change it. Don't get mad at us over it, because we didn't want it either.

But back to the point, the only reason we can do actions while dodging is because that's literally the mechanic of mirage. The price that is paid is that we have significantly worse mobility on dodge, only when moving forward do we get the same range of movement that other classes do, while backpedaling or strafing we barely go anywhere, even with a longer dodge.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

Thankfully with Elusive Mind, exhaustion only triggers when a stun break occurs.

Now if exhaustion always triggered after Elusive Mind, then this would be horrible and would kill the Mirage class. The Mirage class really relies on Elusive Mind for condition clear .

Please correct me if I'm wrong.