Mesmer deceives its way past the PVP & WVW split

[Razor.6392]

You shouldn't be able to dodge while CC'd. Idc about immobilize, but not while stunned or knocked down. I'm not talking about elusive mind, I'm talking about getting evade frames when you're not supposed to.

Evade frames while stomping, while cc'd = not fine.

Evade frames while casting your heal, or any offensive ability = fine.

This needs to change. After the EM nerf, everyone will take the other trait, and that one is just as bad and oppressive.

[Dreams.3128]

@Tigaseye.2047 said:Why do so few people play it, in WvW, then?

I do play it and find it's good in some ways, but pretty bad in others.

Survivability under heavy AOE is hard work, to say the least, for example.

I constantly have to hold back, until my shield is up and even then, it's jump in really carefully and then dodge back, again.

Mostly it's tentative support, with the only real advantage being you can hopefully escape, when it all goes wrong and there's a wipe.

I assume that is why most people don't play it in WvW, despite saying it's OP?

Let me tell you about the ten mirage roamers that my group ran into.

Let me tell you about seeing mirage power roamers on EVERY map for about three to four weeks at a time.

Let me tell you about the amount of people they have one shotted during that time

WvW is not all about just mindless Zerg and go. You have to think about your scouts and hit squads. If they are all getting destroyed by one overtuned /roaming/ class that is a problem. Severely

Scourge in GvG fights and zerg fights things like scourge is a big issue, but the mirages who are picking off your folks at the end or sides is an issue too.

TDLR; People do play mirage ALL the time in WvW.

[Ghos.1326]

@"Abelisk.4527" said:

Bunker builds/tank is bad for PVP. It promotes boring playstyles for both teams

No, bunker builds are not bad for pvp. If this is a joke, then i'm laughing with you, if not, then i'm laughing at you. It's how bunker builds are in this game, is what makes them seem like a bad idea. Bunker here in gw2 is a combination of all of these things: healing, direct damage mitigation, condi cleanse. If they seperated these aspects as follows:-tank (direct damage mitigation ONLY, leaving counterplay for condi builds)-support, which is healing/condi cleanse (to mitigate condi builds, but is weak to physical direct damage)then the game would be in a good place to start properly balancing everything. As it stands, currently in gw2, and hopefully a dev is reading this and getting ideas from this, most builds can do too much of multiple things, they have no real "role" in the game. This might also be caused by how the specialization system is, giving us a choice of 3 for each tier, in total giving us a choice from 9 different choices for the whole tier. However, lets imagine this scenario: Maybe for each tier, you have a choice between 5. You can use a system kind of like the old, where you click on the single large icon for the major traits to select from a grouping of 5 per tier. This might open up more in terms of customizing builds, and affect gameplay in a way that I believe is intended for this game.

I know we are breaking away from "The Holy Trinity" in this game, but choices still need its bonuses, AND consequences to break away from single meta builds that dominate everything else. each choice should give you strengths, but also weakness as well. Such is what a true trade off is. NO single build should be exceedingly well at more than ONE role. However, a single build SHOULD BE ABLE TO, if it is inevitable, perform one role exceedingly well, and another role AT MOST DECENTLY. NO better than decently. Any better than decently will blur the lines of said build's intended role, and cause it to creep into the "meta" build position, which will ultimately dominate and invalidate all other builds. I think it's perfectly fine to have meta builds. I don't find it fine to have one meta build be meta for every single role and situation it will come across.

This breaking away from "The Holy Trinity" would be even more glorified with this concept as well, being as professions can create builds that fit different roles, and not be locked into one singular role. For example, Guardian, just judging by the name would imply it is a great protector, so it could be a tank. But, it can also spec into doing great sustained damage. It could also spec into being a great support, healing and cleansing conditions like a GOD. Then, Dragon hunter comes along, and offers different roles. It can be a burster, dealing tons of damage fast, but can also do decently in sustained damage, or be a burster with decent tanking abilities. Firebrand could be the support spec, doing GREAT support, and being decent with conditions, or do GREAT with conditions, and decent with support, etc etc.

I truly think this is what the devs intended with this game, but they are also only human. I think with the release of expansions and new ways to play, they got way too excited and overbuffed the elite specs, when they were merely only supposed to be playstyle changers to the core professions. For future reference, the next elite specs going forward, capture an idea of what kind of role and playstyle you want the professions to have that they don't have yet, and capitalize on that. Any secondary roles can just be roles that perform decently, or can be performed GREAT, at the cost of performing decently in its original concept role design. gotta trade something to gain something else, or else power creep will just be reintroduced to the game and it will cause more headache to the dev team.

[Abelisk.4527]

I like your suggestion on choosing various roles while sacrificing other aspects.

My main issue comes with bunkering in general. Although research and polling hasn't been done, I think that a majority of the GW2 PVP populace would prefer a faster-paced PVP system than a slow one (Season 1 Chronobunker shenanigans). The point of a bunker is to absorb damage. Supporting does not necessarily mean to be a bunker. It can be valid to run a glass support spec (which is rare) but possible.

I've stated in the past that PVP games should have players be on a dying trend the longer they stand. The current system promotes high-skilled players over low-skilled ones, but this a fault with our current MMR system as well as the lack of a unanimous forfeit ("GG") option. Lower-skilled should not be punished so severely where they wait out a 0-500 blowout game--that promotes toxicity.

Bunkering specifically means to have the capability to tank 2-3 players. This is not right, this is boring.

If healing would be mitigated enough, players could value their plays and timing more, and lower-skilled players would have much higher chances of snowballing. I think bunkering is a thorn in the side that needs to be adjusted.

[reikken.4961]

@BlackBeard.2873 said:As it is, having mesmers be so rewarding rather than an insulated niche REALLY hurts fight visuals. Fights with more than 1 mesmer are just a sea of pink...and it truly destroys the enjoyable flow of the fight.

For sure. This game already has the worst visual clarity of any game I've ever played in my life, and having 4 mesmers in every game makes this so much worse. especially now that they can have 5+ illusions out at a time instead of the 3 limit

[bravan.3876]

Mirage only need the change you already are planning or even just delete of elusive mind, if you nerf the traitline more you make a pure power mirage unplayable. Also chrono itself dont need another nerf, it would kill the pure power gameplay what is one of the hardest to play already. Ofc it can oneshot newbies but thats it, so newbies try to get the burst nerfed since 2012, no semi decent player cries about a pure power mesmer. Nerf inspiration and chaosline into the ground, these two make mesmer very forgiving to play by still having tons of dmg. The sustain of these traitlines are against the no passives carry anymore plans anyway. Change the phantasm back to get shattered and count into the maximum of 3 illusions up. There is not need for these two changes to delete the decision between let phantasms live or shatter. They become clones when they live long enough, end of story. Even give mesmer 6 illusion ups (3 clones, 3 phantasm) at the same time is a cluster-fuck you never have seen before. Even as someone playing mesmer myself a little bit its just annoying to face these lame high sustainbuilds with insane high (phantasm) dmg. Nerf superiority complex is the only thing i would agree to, when all other classes are less tanky and not carried by passives anymore. And nerf the dmg/effects some phantasms do (staff and utilities) back, no shatter ever had a phantasm out for longer than one attack, that they become clones now is noo reason to make them stronger that much.

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@Razor.6392 said:You shouldn't be able to dodge while CC'd. Idc about immobilize, but not while stunned or knocked down. I'm not talking about elusive mind, I'm talking about getting evade frames when you're not supposed to.

Evade frames while stomping, while cc'd = not fine.

Evade frames while casting your heal, or any offensive ability = fine.

This needs to change. After the EM nerf, everyone will take the other trait, and that one is just as bad and oppressive.

You are well aware that this has been a thing for a long time on mosmer. Since for in fact. I've been shattering with F4 and 2 illusions to heal/stomp/cover casts since core.

[Vieux P.1238]

@dragonkain.3984 said:Remove perma-reflect on dodge talent for dueling trait line, it makes mesmer an immortal god-mode vs any ranged projectile build or class.

Remove mobility on sword ambush for mirage, which is allowing this class to be faster than thieves, making mesmers a class jack-of-all trades-master-of-all.

Remove ability to physically burst from stealth from 100-0 any class, even warriors. All done with mesmers greatsword. Good idea would be adding some specific sound tell for when sword 2 or 4 are start being casted, which is played even when mesmer is stealthed.

Remove all possibility for vigor applications for mirage, a class that can keep spamming immortality while other classes can not is not healthy for any game, limit mirages dodges only to two per 20 seconds(just like normal dodge cooldown), no way to improve that.2 dodges are enough and should not be increasable in any way if you want to keep it in such overpowered state.

Another solution could be making it less overpowered and removing ability to dodge while stunned/immobilized, making dodge work just like for any other class.

Remove ability to escape combat with portal, just like you did with thiefs shadow trap, Make mesmers second portal use have a long cast-time to prevent that.

Basically make mesmer a Quaggan is what your asking? hahaha haha hahaha ha

[OriOri.8724]

@dragonkain.3984 said:Remove perma-reflect on dodge talent for dueling trait line, it makes mesmer an immortal god-mode vs any ranged projectile build or class.

Remove mobility on sword ambush for mirage, which is allowing this class to be faster than thieves, making mesmers a class jack-of-all trades-master-of-all.

Remove ability to physically burst from stealth from 100-0 any class, even warriors. All done with mesmers greatsword. Good idea would be adding some specific sound tell for when sword 2 or 4 are start being casted, which is played even when mesmer is stealthed.

Remove all possibility for vigor applications for mirage, a class that can keep spamming immortality while other classes can not is not healthy for any game, limit mirages dodges only to two per 20 seconds(just like normal dodge cooldown), no way to improve that.2 dodges are enough and should not be increasable in any way if you want to keep it in such overpowered state.

Another solution could be making it less overpowered and removing ability to dodge while stunned/immobilized, making dodge work just like for any other class.

Remove ability to escape combat with portal, just like you did with thiefs shadow trap, Make mesmers second portal use have a long cast-time to prevent that.

2 seconds of reflect on evade is hardly perma reflect.

While I also want to see sword ambush attack completely redesigned, this is not the only mobility tool that mirages have, even though its a powerful one. To pretend like this one singlehandedly gives us our mobility is kinda strange

I didn't realize that our GS kit has stealth, blink, long distance stuns and shatters all wrapped into it. Guess I should learn our weapon skills a bit better

If 2 dodges are enough then first remove DDs third endurance bar before coming after our vigor.

[SPESHAL.9106]

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

The optics were really bad. To show tremendous nerfs to everyone else while showing almost nothing to the most OP profession, makes you guys look tone deaf. Nevertheless, it's good that you commented on it to clarify.

The problem I see overall is that you hit some professions with huge nerfs - not just in damage - but in survivability....especially ones that can't escape, don't have stealth and/or mobility.

The biggest problem you have to address with Mesmers is the instant AND insane damage PLUS from stealth...while also being able to cycle through tons of defenses that scale 100% whether against 1 or 100 opponents (blocks/immunity/evades)...the most AI/pets to distract...on top of the ability to portal across the map, blinks and stealth. This survivability toolkit is exclusive to Mesmers. PLUS, they are one of the few that can match damage with anyone in PVP and choose BOTH condi or power builds that are more than viable.

Anecdotally, this is the profession that runs the most new players off because the 1 shot kill, immunity, escape, and tons of AI is particularly frustrating to someone new to the game. Now, it's going to be even worse because many key anti-mesmer defenses have had their cooldowns increased (SoS, Warrior utilities, etc) - even the Necros spectral armor trait (that wasn't an immunity or scaling defense) got nerfed and that only triggers after already brought to 50%. That's just crazy!

For mesmers, you will have to significantly increase their burst rotation cooldowns AND nerf their survivability in major ways or things will only get even worse than they are now. Their first strike/instant/huge damage/low cooldowns/tons of AI/stealth AND 100% scalable defenses will be even more powerful with the changes you proposed.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@"Cal Cohen.3527" said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

Can you do us an awesome favor and ask the balance team "What is the intended weakness of mesmer in PvP?". This would help us come up with an answer in more ways than one.

[Anaseth.5763]

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

Heres an idea, cut damage from clones in half. Well thats a bit much, but seriously the clone and shatter spam literally sucks the fun from the game. you cant generate enough endurance or blocks to effectively deal with it. Its way too much, way too fast, when there are 7-8 on the screen, how are you supposed to evade that, you have to time it perfectly, while the mesmer jsut dodges and casts gs4. Get control of your game, cause youre losing it

[BlackBeard.2873]

Can we also fix confounding suggestions + mantra of distraction so that they stop interrupting dodges? It really saps the fun out of fighting an already frustrating spec when a bug allows them to completely negate your dodges too!

[dubidubidubidu.5308]

@Anaseth.5763 said:

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

Heres an idea, cut damage from clones in half. Well thats a bit much, but seriously the clone and shatter spam literally sucks the fun from the game. you cant generate enough endurance or blocks to effectively deal with it. Its way too much, way too fast, when there are 7-8 on the screen, how are you supposed to evade that, you have to time it perfectly, while the mesmer jsut dodges and casts gs4. Get control of your game, cause youre losing it

yes make clones do 5 hp dmg instead of 10 hp as it is now lmao, at least understand the class enough to use the correct terms before start crying in forums. you talk about the meta phantasm builds running around everywhere now. mesmers can only have 3 clones up at same time still and they do not do any dmg. phantasm is what you talk about, they look different to the mesmer, doing indeed remarkable dmg and have no limit in creation atm what sure is a problem.

[psyt.9415]

I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered bullshit after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

[Aza.2105]

@Cal Cohen.3527 said:The list in the main thread isn't final; one of the reasons we wanted to get it out way early is for you guys to give feedback. We agree that mirage could use more nerfs and it's something we will be looking at in the next few days. If you have any specific ideas (preferably splits) feel free to post them along with any reasoning and we'll take them into consideration.

Thanks!

You guys created a monster with the Mesmer class. What ever happened to the roles with holes idea that Anet use to talk about during the games infancy? The class pretty much has access to everything. Condi removal, evades, blocks, invul, stealth, high damage, mobility and clones to confuse to opponent. Where on earth did the weaknesses go???

To quote from very old patch notes:

MesmerMesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

[Felipe.1807]

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

[Dreams.3128]

@Felipe.1807 said:

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Nope they are in zerg fights.They are the boon whores that spam feedback, while throwing every living boon in game on top of its mates while also being able to spit out clones and heal.

Trust me, mesmer is LITERALLY everywhere.

[trueanimus.4085]

As i have said before.. They dont play their own game and it shows. Look at necro.. nerfed 3 patches straight in a row.. almost unplayable in any game mode and they are nerfing it again because people whined. Yes.. a lot of people play it in WvW becuase its supposed to be a aoe mass damage class... You dont see necros running around AOE 1 shotting people like deadeyes mesmers or rangers ... yet if mesmer gets buffed.. necros will all go mesmers or deadeyes. I just wish they would actually play the classes before listening to people complain about what needs nerfed.

[trueanimus.4085]

@Meteor.3720 said:

@"trueanimus.4085" said:

Absolutelywhen in reality, they need some serious buffs.lolThe reaper spec is dead and has been since Nov patch.. which forced all necros into scourge.lol

you obviously have never played necro in its current state.. yes.. they need buffs... we have had ALL of our on skill activation damage taken away, 1/2 our stacks of condis and 1/2 of our boon stipping abilities. It is a fight now just to stay alive... with almost no damage since you cant build up a condi tick in wvw because of all the resistance and cleanse.

Yes.. the reaper spec is dead.. completely, no matter what mode you play it in. They added a 67% shroud drain. Most reapers run power and so the marks/wells do nothing in the way of damage and when you jump into shroud, your main bread and butter of the build, the shroud drain is HUGE.. You cannot sustain an attack in shroud becuase the return cant overcome the drain they added. You end up getting off one rotation of skills if your are lucky.. most of the time if you jump into a fight, you get off 2 skills and poof... shroud is gone and your dead.

Try actually playing the class before you just comment "lol" please

[Meteor.3720]

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@trueanimus.4085 said:

Absolutelywhen in reality, they need some serious buffs.lolThe reaper spec is dead and has been since Nov patch.. which forced all necros into scourge.lol

you obviously have never played necro in its current state.. yes.. they need buffs... we have had ALL of our on skill activation damage taken away, 1/2 our stacks of condis and 1/2 of our boon stipping abilities. It is a fight now just to stay alive... with almost no damage since you cant build up a condi tick in wvw because of all the resistance and cleanse.

Yes.. the reaper spec is dead.. completely, no matter what mode you play it in. They added a 67% shroud drain. Most reapers run power and so the marks/wells do nothing in the way of damage and when you jump into shroud, your main bread and butter of the build, the shroud drain is HUGE.. You cannot sustain an attack in shroud becuase the return cant overcome the drain they added. You end up getting off one rotation of skills if your are lucky.. most of the time if you jump into a fight, you get off 2 skills and poof... shroud is gone and your dead.

Try actually playing the class before you just comment "lol" please

lol

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@Felipe.1807 said:

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

[Felipe.1807]

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@Felipe.1807 said:

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@"psyt.9415" said:I used to defend Mesmer but enough is enough how can they literally be meta in every single game mode since HoT and slide away with barely any nerfs again it’s getting stupid. One overpowered kitten after another im honestly getting sick of it and this games balance ream for that matter.

How can they beb meta in every game mode? Simple. If you aren't a bunker, basically any dueling spec in PvP is viable in WvW, which is where they are used. As for PvE, raids were designed around mesmers as they weren't seen being used in PvE. Instead of complaining it's meta in every game mode, shouldn't you be HAPPY that someone can play their class in all modes? Shouldn't you want that for ALL classes instead of having a "useless class" when switching game modes? You got this one backwards.

Mesmers werent used on PvE before raids? If I remenber, Mesmers used to be meta on dungeons. I guess nobody is saying that mesmers should be trash tier on PvE/sPvP/WvW, but saying that he shouldnt be a must have in all 3 game modes, theres a huge diference between being viable and being a top profession on the game...guess the only place that Mesmer dont really have a place are on zerg fights, but it compensate for being one of the best(if not the best) small scale fighter.

Well, let me tell you something from someone who plays a lot of mesmer. I now main mesmer in all 3 game modes, mostly because switching is a pain and I'm lazy. I do however have difficulty fighting many classes. If you first thought in response to that is "you are just bad" then what you are really saying is that mesmers aren't the problem, skilled players are. So let's nerf the skilled players, except we can't unless we just make all builds faceroll easy, and that's no fun for anyone. Mesmers have counterplay, and I'm in high gold in PvP, and in a T1 server in WvW, where I play against skilled players. The point is that skilled players can dispatch me as a mesmer, so therefor the mesmer is not a problem. The main thing that people hate about a mesmer is that it can escape, but let's face it, thief is JUST as good, if not better, and we've had portals since core game. Talking from a balance standpoint with skilled players, a mesmer is not OP. Against noobs, it is, but a fresh air ele is OP then as it can one shot a lot of things, as well as thieves, so nerf them too? Oh wait, we all die if you know how to counter any of those, or run with our tail between our legs. Both count as a win for you.

Allright, saying that you are High Gold on sPvP really dosent help to validade your argument, rank have nothing to do with skills, considering the state of the game, being on T3 gold or T1 Plat is nothing impressive...the argument that cause players can kill, and because they can kill you as a mesmer they are "good" players, so that means that mesmer and its specs are balanced...got no words for that lol maybe, just maybe you arent as good as you think you are, and the "good" players that counter and kill you all the time are just decent, you are the one who actually havent learned yet how to play mesmer and use all the tools that it bring to the table...Mesmer have way to much thing on his arsenal, mobility, evades frames, teleports, stealth, damage...but I honestly dont expect Anet to ever balance Mesmer, this game is not competitive, is just a PvE game with some PvP game modes just for fun, shouldnt be taken serious.....you even tried to compare Fresh Air Ele with Power Mesmer specs...

You completely missed the point. I never said that I was a good mesmer, why do you think that I even said that. It was the entire point in fact that I'm not as good as you think that I'm claiming to be. The point that you missed is that mesmers have a lot AVAILABLE, but that doesn't make them overpowered. They still take a lot of skill to use. Compare this to a spellbreaker that literally any moron con run with invulns on invulns. You don't have to be good to play a spellbreaker and be incredibly effective, but you do on a mesmer. Skill floor is a part of balance. If I wanted easy wins, I'd just go play an easy class. INstead, I am playing a class that's actually hard and when I kill people, it means I'm better than them, not that I have an easy class. If I wanted to take a nap while winning games, I'd load up a scourge or spellbreaker. With how easy those are to play, and be insanely effective, I don't see how you could call mesmer OP comparatively.