Fractal Random Mistlock Instabilities

[Talindra.4958]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:Yesterday cms t4 & rec were smooooooth ?? \o/ it was new mistlocks too ^.^*. pugway

please make afflicted, toxic trail, last laugh be the 3 mislocks for 99cm and 100cm for next week. I want to see Talindra's next video.

Loool you want more eye sore videos heheTbh it's actually less of a problem with cm.. it's the general pug in normal t4 that has wide spread players. imo CM team usually are better in any fractal run .. thts how I feel :)

[blastingmnktpoo.9637]

For the most part I like the current way instabilities are, but i just got last laugh for my swamp daily and it was awful.. I was domi inspiration crono and i couldn't even cast half of my wells.

[Eramonster.2718]

@"Vinceman.4572" said:Haven't noticed any instability at 100CM yesterday, 99 was almost the same. In fact the change is an "improvement of the fractal experience for dedicated players." -.-

Same here. Started off with S.O, so I did glanced through it's instabilities (hamstrung but there's the special action key? And with the max of 70% m.speed reduction with 10% hp remaining made me laughed). Died 1x but it was in one of the Recs caused by social awkwardness (deserve the walk of shame there) for totally forgotten there's such a thing called instabilities.

Will be a good week for PuGs =)

[Talindra.4958]

@blastingmnktpoo.9637 said:For the most part I like the current way instabilities are, but i just got last laugh for my swamp daily and it was awful.. I was domi inspiration crono and i couldn't even cast half of my wells.

the swamp today was rec right? my group today didn't have issue that i had like two days ago with swamp :P everyone moved together and work really well as a team. two days ago we had toxic trail that goes with last laugh in swamp and today we only had last laugh without toxic trail. not sure if that would make a difference or just because of better team work. our run today is smooth I made a group to do full cms + t4 + rec, the team was nice...

Basically, from experience, we get better group right at reset time and also better group if you join a group that does full cm run and t4 together.i think the random mistlock itself is ok, but for lower level, perhaps it needs to scale down accordingly to fit the fractal level.. so it doesn't affect the learning experience of the casual fractal runner/learner.

[blastingmnktpoo.9637]

@Talindra.4958 said:

@blastingmnktpoo.9637 said:For the most part I like the current way instabilities are, but i just got last laugh for my swamp daily and it was awful.. I was domi inspiration crono and i couldn't even cast half of my wells.

the swamp today was rec right? my group today didn't have issue that i had like two days ago with swamp :P everyone moved together and work really well as a team. two days ago we had toxic trail that goes with last laugh in swamp and today we only had last laugh without toxic trail. not sure if that would make a difference or just because of better team work. our run today is smooth I made a group to do full cms + t4 + rec, the team was nice...

Basically, from experience, we get better group right at reset time and also better group if you join a group that does full cm run and t4 together.i think the random mistlock itself is ok, but for lower level, perhaps it needs to scale down accordingly to fit the fractal level.. so it doesn't affect the learning experience of the casual fractal runner/learner.

I have a group that does the t4s and cms, that isn't the issue, I was more commenting on the annoyance of that many mobs that cause a knock-back on death. It was only scale 67 so nobody actually went down, but our dps and boon up-time was extremely low because of the constant dodging and getting knocked down, even after switching to chaos for extra stab, it was still a bother..

[Talindra.4958]

That's what I was trying to say. If your static group that does cm etc and still find it a pain to complete what about those that doesn't hv the same level at your experience level?? Isn't it suppose to be lvl 67 right?

:) If I would to play that rec with normal pug that don't do cm.. I'm very sure I will be smashing and punishing my keyboard and have a very bad day after :p the effect of mistlocks should not feel as strong as that in full higher level. But then we can't adjust or scale a knock down can we? A knockdown is a knockdown :p maybe knockdown by 0.00001 sec instead of 0.1 sec but then .. to some players 0.1 sec and 0.000001 sec is of no difference? Haha nvm just ignore me lol. U get what I mean I hope

[squallaus.8321]

@Talindra.4958 said:That's what I was trying to say. If your static group that does cm etc and still find it a pain to complete what about those that doesn't hv the same level at your experience level?? Isn't it suppose to be lvl 67 right?

:) If I would to play that rec with normal pug that don't do cm.. I'm very sure I will be smashing and punishing my keyboard and have a very bad day after :p the effect of mistlocks should not feel as strong as that in full higher level. But then we can't adjust or scale a knock down can we? A knockdown is a knockdown :p maybe knockdown by 0.00001 sec instead of 0.1 sec but then .. to some players 0.1 sec and 0.000001 sec is of no difference? Haha nvm just ignore me lol. U get what I mean I hope

No you should direct your anger at the mouse not the keyboard. Once your mouse dies you will have an excuse to finally purchase a mmo mouse and finally stop being a clicker. :P

[Talindra.4958]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:That's what I was trying to say. If your static group that does cm etc and still find it a pain to complete what about those that doesn't hv the same level at your experience level?? Isn't it suppose to be lvl 67 right?

:) If I would to play that rec with normal pug that don't do cm.. I'm very sure I will be smashing and punishing my keyboard and have a very bad day after :p the effect of mistlocks should not feel as strong as that in full higher level. But then we can't adjust or scale a knock down can we? A knockdown is a knockdown :p maybe knockdown by 0.00001 sec instead of 0.1 sec but then .. to some players 0.1 sec and 0.000001 sec is of no difference? Haha nvm just ignore me lol. U get what I mean I hope

No you should direct your anger at the mouse not the keyboard. Once your mouse dies you will have an excuse to finally purchase a mmo mouse and finally stop being a clicker. :P

I lets keep this on topic squallaus xD

[squallaus.8321]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457I think instead having certain instability combinations on some kind of exclusion list, how about make the rewards slightly better than usual for those combinations that players find hard and just let all instabilities randomise freely for all fractal difficulties? Otherwise 2 DPS + BS + Druid + chrono will always be meta for fractals since players wont bother using other party compositions if you keep black listing instability combinations that the meta comp with average players can't quite handle.

[Talindra.4958]

Ben will hv more headache cos now he has instabilities variables and reward variables to deal with ??? - squallaus.8321As long as we hv a new fractal map now and then I'm harpy !!!

[squallaus.8321]

@Talindra.4958 said:Ben will hv more headache cos now he has instabilities variables and reward variables to deal with ??? - squallaus.8321

While that may be true but I also think he should start to play to gw2's systems strengths in terms of build variety and customizability.In early gw2 with core tyria content, the difficulty had been kept fairly low and we ended up with pretty much DPS only party meta.With the introduction of HoT, we had the introduction of RAIDS and CMs that in some ways mimicked party compositions and roles of traditional trinity systems and forced players to go with DPS, tank, healer if they wanted a reasonably smooth runs.With the introduction of randomised mistlocks, we saw first time in a while that average players with the usual DPS, BS, Druid, Chrono struggle a bit with certain mistlock combinations due to the increase in difficulty. I think Ben/Anet should try encouraging players to explore outside of the current meta comp so that smoother runs with average players can be achieved. This may come at the expense of some dps loss compared to the current meta make up. In the long run this will promote build diversity and help players better understand the dynamics of various different party compositions. Hence my suggestion of better rewards for certain mistlock combinations and allow mistlocks to completely randomise instead of simple blacklisting certain combinations.

For example, for the mistlock combination of afflicted, last laugh, toxic trail, for 99cm people might opt for maybe something like 2 Mirage DPS, BS, Firebrand healer/support, chrono sup instead of the usual combination. Mirage naturally has alot more dodges and last laugh wont effect them as much. Firebrand has alot of stab and aegis, will also help alot if countering the effects of last laugh alot for the whole party. All of this at the expensive of dropping spirit support.

Extra reward doesn't have to be much and will be different depending on the difference in increase in difficulty, but maybe something like 2 guaranteed mystic coin at the end of the fractal in the 99cm case above.

[Bugabuga.9721]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@"Talindra.4958" said:Ben will hv more headache cos now he has instabilities variables and reward variables to deal with ??? - squallaus.8321

While that may be true but I also think he should start to play to gw2's systems strengths in terms of build variety and customizability.In early gw2 with core tyria content, the difficulty had been kept fairly low and we ended up with pretty much DPS only party meta.With the introduction of HoT, we had the introduction of RAIDS and CMs that in some ways mimicked party compositions and roles of traditional trinity systems and forced players to go with DPS, tank, healer if they wanted a reasonably smooth runs.With the introduction of randomised mistlocks, we saw first time in a while that average players with the usual DPS, BS, Druid, Chrono struggle a bit with certain mistlock combinations due to the increase in difficulty. I think Ben/Anet should try encouraging players to explore outside of the current meta comp so that smoother runs with average players can be achieved. This may come at the expense of some dps loss compared to the current meta make up. In the long run this will promote build diversity and help players better understand the dynamics of various different party compositions. Hence my suggestion of better rewards for certain mistlock combinations and allow mistlocks to completely randomise instead of simple blacklisting certain combinations.

For example, for the mistlock combination of afflicted, last laugh, toxic trail, for 99cm people might opt for maybe something like 2 Mirage DPS, BS, Firebrand healer/support, chrono sup instead of the usual combination. Mirage naturally has alot more dodges and last laugh wont effect them as much. Firebrand has alot of stab and aegis, will also help alot if countering the effects of last laugh alot for the whole party. All of this at the expensive of dropping spirit support.

Extra reward doesn't have to be much and will be different depending on the difference in increase in difficulty, but maybe something like 2 guaranteed mystic coin at the end of the fractal in the 99cm case above.

Speaking of pugs

Just remember, it's not trivial to fully gear a character just because of instability. Or swap runes. Or change your gear.

So in these cases you get "instead of playing you will sit in LFG for 10 minutes waiting for needed class" which is not fun.

Mitigating some of instabilities on some classes is waaay more difficult and having better party comp means "wait to play ".

And we're back to "fractals demand more and more premade group" (which is automatically an easy mode for those who run them often enough to have premade group)Aside from selectable challenge mode I don't know if this can be easily fixed for pug groups.

But given recent changes as whole to make things "more challenging" I guess it's the new philosophy, to have randoms stay away from higher tier fractals and new/re- done fractals.

[squallaus.8321]

@"Bugabuga.9721" said:Speaking of pugs

Just remember, it's not trivial to fully gear a character just because of instability. Or swap runes. Or change your gear.

So in these cases you get "instead of playing you will sit in LFG for 10 minutes waiting for needed class" which is not fun.

Mitigating some of instabilities on some classes is waaay more difficult and having better party comp means "wait to play ".

So work out what you need, look at what is available and then adapt to it. That's part of the challenge. The players will need to decide whether they need specific classes and potentially wait longer to find them, or sacrifice some dps. This isn't your shitty traditional trinity mmo where the capabilities of each class is highly restricted. In GW2 every class has fairly large coverage in what they can do, just not all at once. Players should be able to adapt to changing situations quickly by changing builds. And i believe Anet/Ben should encourage users to think more about different group compositions outside of meta comps.

@"Bugabuga.9721" said:And we're back to "fractals demand more and more premade group" (which is automatically an easy mode for those who run them often enough to have premade group)Aside from selectable challenge mode I don't know if this can be easily fixed for pug groups.

But given recent changes as whole to make things "more challenging" I guess it's the new philosophy, to have randoms stay away from higher tier fractals and new/re- done fractals.

Far from it. Leaving fractals too easy will lead group composition more towards DPS only group meta. Occationally I thnk anet should throw in things that shake up the current meta comp that is not dependent on balance patches. With completely random instabilities, it will keep players that are already in their comfort zones on their toes more.

[Ultimatepwr.9562]

@squallaus.8321 said:So work out what you need, look at what is available and then adapt to it. That's part of the challenge. The players will need to decide whether they need specific classes and potentially wait longer to find them, or sacrifice some dps. This isn't your kitten traditional trinity mmo where the capabilities of each class is highly restricted. In GW2 every class has fairly large coverage in what they can do, just not all at once. Players should be able to adapt to changing situations quickly by changing builds. And i believe Anet/Ben should encourage users to think more about different group compositions outside of meta comps.

gw2 is also the hardest modern mmo to get a full set of the gear required for the semicasual content, both first gearset and alternate gear sets.

It also has an inventory and gear system that is not conductive to multiple sets of gear, as its inventory is miniscule, and you have to replace the entire set of gear, and it essentially has no bank space.

Asking people to grab more sets of gear is unreasonable. It is an expectation that needs to die.

[squallaus.8321]

@Ultimatepwr.9562 said:gw2 is also the hardest modern mmo to get a full set of the gear required for the semicasual content, both first gearset and alternate gear sets.

It also has an inventory and gear system that is not conductive to multiple sets of gear, as its inventory is miniscule, and you have to replace the entire set of gear, and it essentially has no bank space.

Actually gw2 is one of the easiest to get full set of gear as it involves no RNG and at very little cost and time compared to other mmos. A few of my characters have several sets of armor and weapons, 90% of them free from fractal drops. If you're a regular player you will only need to craft 1-2 sets of gear.

@Ultimatepwr.9562 said:Asking people to grab more sets of gear is unreasonable. It is an expectation that needs to die.

This is the problem with people that always think in 1 way, tend to conform to meta, and never try different things. Even without changing gears, each class will have plenty of flexibility with different traits and utilties.

[Ultimatepwr.9562]

@squallaus.8321 said:

Actually gw2 is one of the easiest to get full set of gear as it involves no RNG and at very little cost and time compared to other mmos. A few of my characters have several sets of armor and weapons, 90% of them free from fractal drops. If you're a regular player you will only need to craft 1-2 sets of gear.

If you are comparing bis to bis, yes. If you are comparing gear required for equivilent content hell no. The gw2 makes it a lot eaiser to get bis gear, but you need bis gear to do semicasual shit. In wow, in ffxiv, in everything else it is a lot easier to get the gear needed to do stuff of the same level of difficulty and time commitment as t4 fractals.

[squallaus.8321]

@Ultimatepwr.9562 said:If you are comparing bis to bis, yes. If you are comparing gear required for equivilent content hell no. The gw2 makes it a lot eaiser to get bis gear, but you need bis gear to do semicasual kitten. In wow, in ffxiv, in everything else it is a lot easier to get the gear needed to do stuff of the same level of difficulty and time commitment as t4 fractals.

Except the same tier of gear is used for all end game content in gw2. So it makes little sense to talk about level of difficulty in content vs gear tier. The only thing that matters is whether the BIS gear in gw2 can be easily obtained to the extent that most players will be able to get multiple sets over a seasonable amount of time. And the answer to that is yes and at very little cost to boot.

[Eramonster.2718]

Getting a full set of equipment is easy in GW2 imo. To the extend players are salvaging exotics and ascended like thrash because ascended is easily obtainable. Which made exotics look like subpar equipments and ascended as recycleable goods for alts because the players just need a mainstream stat per character. Most of the time, done to free bank/bag slots. You won't see this behaviour/mentality often in other MMOs.

Plus it's possible with crafting maxed to craft 2-3 ascended per week with just 2hours of gaming daily. Getting skins however, might take time.

[Ultimatepwr.9562]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Ultimatepwr.9562 said:If you are comparing bis to bis, yes. If you are comparing gear required for equivilent content hell no. The gw2 makes it a lot eaiser to get bis gear, but you need bis gear to do semicasual kitten. In wow, in ffxiv, in everything else it is a lot easier to get the gear needed to do stuff of the same level of difficulty and time commitment as t4 fractals.

Except the same tier of gear is used for all end game content in gw2. So it makes little sense to talk about level of difficulty in content vs gear tier. The only thing that matters is whether the BIS gear in gw2 can be easily obtained to the extent that most players will be able to get multiple sets over a seasonable amount of time. And the answer to that is yes and at very little cost to boot.

Again, no, it does make sense to talk about gear tiers, because when comparing equivalent levels of content (say, low to mid level mythic+ to t4), it takes a ton more time and effort to get 2 or 3 gear sets in gw2 then it does to gear up 2 or 3 classes/specs in wow. Or ffxiv with extreme primals.

All this is unimportant though, I should stop mentioning time to get gear. People either haven't played these games in 6 or 7 years (or more) or just are caught up by gw2 marketing from launch, so they say things about other games that aren't true, and that irks me. It ultimately doesn't matter though, that isn't why its unreasonable to ask people to get multiple sets of gear,

Its unreasonable because carrying around multiple sets of gear is hard in this game. In terms of relative inventory size, this game is fucking minuscule, and sets take up 3/4 of a 20 slot bag at minimum.

[squallaus.8321]

@Ultimatepwr.9562 said:Again, no, it does make sense to talk about gear tiers, because when comparing equivalent levels of content (say, low to mid level mythic+ to t4), it takes a ton more time and effort to get 2 or 3 gear sets in gw2 then it does to gear up 2 or 3 classes/specs in wow. Or ffxiv with extreme primals.

All this is unimportant though, I should stop mentioning time to get gear. People either haven't played these games in 6 or 7 years (or more) or just are caught up by gw2 marketing from launch, so they say things about other games that aren't true, and that irks me. It ultimately doesn't matter though, that isn't why its unreasonable to ask people to get multiple sets of gear,

Its unreasonable because carrying around multiple sets of gear is hard in this game. In terms of relative inventory size, this game is kitten minuscule, and sets take up 3/4 of a 20 slot bag at minimum.

This is getting stupid. Stats are relative. New content are not more difficult just because you need to upgrade gear for more stats in order to survive. BIS is what really matters. And getting multiple sets of BIS gear in gw2 is not difficult and very economical.

You're starting to sound more an more like a hoarder with inventory problems. Its not difficult to have keep multiple sets of gear, especially when gears can be easily shared between characters. Its only the armor type that can't be shared between heavy, medium and light armor classes.

[Ultimatepwr.9562]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Ultimatepwr.9562 said:Again, no, it does make sense to talk about gear tiers, because when comparing equivalent levels of content (say, low to mid level mythic+ to t4), it takes a ton more time and effort to get 2 or 3 gear sets in gw2 then it does to gear up 2 or 3 classes/specs in wow. Or ffxiv with extreme primals.

All this is unimportant though, I should stop mentioning time to get gear. People either haven't played these games in 6 or 7 years (or more) or just are caught up by gw2 marketing from launch, so they say things about other games that aren't true, and that irks me. It ultimately doesn't matter though, that isn't why its unreasonable to ask people to get multiple sets of gear,

Its unreasonable because carrying around multiple sets of gear is hard in this game. In terms of relative inventory size, this game is kitten minuscule, and sets take up 3/4 of a 20 slot bag at minimum.

This is getting stupid. Stats are relative. New content are not more difficult just because you need to upgrade gear for more stats in order to survive. BIS is what really matters. And getting multiple sets of BIS gear in gw2 is not difficult and very economical.

You're starting to sound more an more like a hoarder with inventory problems. Its not difficult to have keep multiple sets of gear, especially when gears can be easily shared between characters. Its only the armor type that can't be shared between heavy, medium and light armor classes.

Gear physically required to complete t4 fractals, BIS, because of AR. Gear physically required to complete stuff of the same level of difficulty, waaaaaaaaay lower then bis.

So BIS isnt BIS. It is ridiculously stupid to say BIS is BIS. If AR didn't exist, I would agree, but it does, and it has to be talked about.

And i'm not a horder. I just have the default size bag, and with 2 or 3 sets, my inventory fills up super quick and I have to empty it out way too frequently to be fun. And Im someone with a copper fed salvage-o-matic and extra shared inventory with a mystic kit in it at all times. If you don't have these things, the game is frustrating almost to the point of unplayablility. Swapping gear sets all the time is not a solution for these reasons: A) because runes are a thing, B ) Because armor weights are a thing, and C) Because its annoying as shit to do regularly and the bank space in this game is also tiny.

[squallaus.8321]

@Ultimatepwr.9562 said:Gear physically required to complete t4 fractals, BIS, because of AR. Gear physically required to complete stuff of the same level of difficulty, waaaaaaaaay lower then bis.

So BIS isnt BIS. It is ridiculously stupid to say BIS is BIS. If AR didn't exist, I would agree, but it does, and it has to be talked about.

And i'm not a horder. I just have the default size bag, and with 2 or 3 sets, my inventory fills up super quick and I have to empty it out way too frequently to be fun. And Im someone with a copper fed salvage-o-matic and extra shared inventory with a mystic kit in it at all times. If you don't have these things, the game is frustrating almost to the point of unplayablility. Swapping gear sets all the time is not a solution for these reasons: A) because runes are a thing, B ) Because armor weights are a thing, and C) Because its annoying as kitten to do regularly and the bank space in this game is also tiny.

Everyone in the end will get BIS if they want the best performance. AR is completely separate for fractals alone. Ascended is used for all end game content. Getting multiple ascended sets is not difficult.

95% of all power builds for pve use scholar runes. 95% of all condi builds for pve use renegade runes. Support builds have similar patterns. So in the end they are highly shareable between characters and builds. Atm you can have 10 slots for bags per character. With free 20 slot bags you get 200 spaces. If you have 3 sets of gear with completely different stats and runes/sigils on them you use up 30 spaces in your bags, with 1 set on your character, So you have 170 spaces left over per character for farming. And you say you're not a hoarder.

[Linken.6345]

looks at his maxed out bank and 3 guild banks upgraded and full of things

Well it aint small but I could always use more. Hoarder for life.

[Eramonster.2718]

Gear plays only a small part in GW2 especially outside of raid(to make the kill before the timer ends). Players don't need to be BiS to beat the content and with the power creep, there's plenty of time and room for errors to happen. Will need more than instabilities for players to even consider swapping.

The only thing stopping exotics from entering T4 fractals is AR but as said before, getting a set of Asc is within reasonable. In the end, it depends on the players capability to adapt to the instabilities. There's no major changes in fractal. Given in the old system, players will still take up the challenge if the same set of instabilities is set by the dev during maintenance for fractals. Just that; now we know, dev is able to tune(nerf) things and that's where we are heading :smirk:.

Without randomization or instabilities, fractal will remain stagnant and as time goes by a meta above the rest will emerge. A more mainstreamed meta and one which sticks.

Not sure how WoW & FF got pulled in but it's possible to get 2-3 pieces of gear in LFR per week, which will still be kept regardless for alternate spec.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

Without in-game build templates I feel discouraged from testing and using multiple builds on my characters. So until this feature is implemented I see no reason to annoy myself with inferior design.