Fractal Random Mistlock Instabilities

[Talindra.4958]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:New approach to instabilities give me nothing more but frustration. It isn't good when a game I paid for makes me frustrated. Or does Ben want me to stop playing?

Relax kheldorn ... Its getting tweak .. Give them a bit more time.. Sit back and relax while waiting xD that's what I told my hub who swear at no one when he does fractal with me lol I was like .. Are you OK?? He didn't answer me.. Then he hit his keyboard key harder.. Poor keyboard..If you have a fractal static group it shouldn't be that bad, would in fact be fun. But I still think reward wise its not as attractive for vet player to go through the trouble esp if they hv to pug. We look for easy life with game :p many ppl complain about T4 two days ago but luckily I had a good team that day. Social awkwardness last laugh and couple other mistlocks definately need close monitor. Why not grab a few diff lvl players to get them test it before throwing it out on players to trial. It is OK but many players do not enjoy them.. Ppl has to change the way they play basically.. And be a lot more alert and better in team play.

[Vinceman.4572]

@Linken.6345 said:Yea but if the instabilites are such an annyoing feature, what have you proposed they replace them with?I mean without them its not much a challenge and with em according to you there is no challenge to your group.How would they keep you intrested since the fractals have always had instabilites from the start of cms.EditTo be clear your not puging these I guess? That add challenge to me since i never know how good or bad my team mates will be.Not saying Im the best druid I kept touching Sublimato with my druid and social awakwardness since i was running around healing everyone else. s/he needed the added challenge Id say =)

• new instabilities
• new fractals
• i'm pugging 90% of my runs (50/60 - open end kp groups)

[Linken.6345]

Well why cant we have both random instabilitys that get new instabilites injected into it?We already got fractal vindicators as a new instabilities with the new fractal and they are working on more fractals maybe even instabilites so they are already doing what you ask just not in the speed you may like mate.

[TexZero.7910]

@Linken.6345 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@"squallaus.8321" said:Yeah thats the thing. You won't even need to do 50% of the dps that meta builds can dish out to clear T4 fractals in reasonable amount of time. So why not use ranged weapons occationally?

Why should an encounter become so cumbersome as to entirely deny melee to begin with ?

Melee is already punished more than ranged is in this game and as already stated not every class has good ranged weapons and trait synergies. So if you'd like to have classes excluded from fractals because of this then more power to you. Otherwise its best not to design this way because not everyone has 9 alts geared and ready to play fractals just incase there's 1-2 really bad combinations of instabilities.

Well not every class have a range as meta sure, but nothing is stoping a mesmer from equiping a scepter/staff or a warrior a rifle/longbow to keep up the pressure even if range is demanded.What other classes are we talking about, and I can give you some tips on what range weapon they can equip mate.

Why do you instantly assume that i'm so bad as to not know what ranged options are ?I know what they are and i also know that a vast majority of them are 15% or more worse than their melee counterparts when it comes to damage potential.

Now then i'd love for you to somehow make up for that with any "Ranged" build please. Show me a 5 man ranged only composition that is 1) Engaging and 2) Doesn't rely on gimmick cooldowns (PP Unload Theif as an example/ LB Ranger as another).

[squallaus.8321]

@Vinceman.4572 said:You speak to the wrong person here.I'm the one asking for challenging content but the change to random instabilities isn't such an implementation. We still breeze through CMs + T4 in our daily routine regardless of which instability is present.Your suggestion of obligatory ranged fights to all actual fractal encounters only results into longer combat situations without adding a challenge or any interesting new stuff. As I said it's hitting with a wet noodle for hours and that's what's disgusting.

Let's face it. The change to random instabilities is just a qol feature for internal stuff at Anet to have better handling when adding new instabilities or deleting some - simply a program facilitation. It's nowhere near an addition of challenge for the experienced fractal runners while a good portion of the T4 only player base will struggle and leave fractals aside as many already have stated in several forum & reddit threads. I doubt that this was the favoured intention to players.

Talk about dumb generalizations. What because last laugh all fights need to be ranged the whole fight now? There are already mechanics in the open world for PoF that forces you to range attack some parts of the fight and some parts melee. They are just not implemented in fractals yet. If you're taking hours to do things then you're doing it wrong. And if you're really blitzing through everything as you say you wouldn't find any instability annoying and be telling people how to handle certain instabilities instead..

As I said previously, as soon as something is more difficulty than what their meta builds can handle, they'll complain about it instead of using what their classes are capable of at the sacrifice of some DPS, as seen in these threads and reddit threads.

[squallaus.8321]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@"squallaus.8321" said:Yeah thats the thing. You won't even need to do 50% of the dps that meta builds can dish out to clear T4 fractals in reasonable amount of time. So why not use ranged weapons occationally?

Why should an encounter become so cumbersome as to entirely deny melee to begin with ?

Melee is already punished more than ranged is in this game and as already stated not every class has good ranged weapons and trait synergies. So if you'd like to have classes excluded from fractals because of this then more power to you. Otherwise its best not to design this way because not everyone has 9 alts geared and ready to play fractals just incase there's 1-2 really bad combinations of instabilities.

Some one obviously can't read here, quite obviously "occationally" means "entirely".

What game have you been player? GW2 combat is not always safe at range, a lot of the time its safer to be in melee. Newbies die so much in instanced content like fractals because they tend to always stand in range and not get any of the buffs, not get any heals from their party members and get trapped by punishing ranged attacks from the bosses. Ranged attacks is also not safer a lot of the time because you need to kite optimally to avoid being hit. Ranged means larger distance to kite when melee means u can just side step the boss attacks.

You don't need 9 geared alts, you just need to swap some traits/util/weapons.

[squallaus.8321]

@Feanor.2358 said:That's still just a matter of dps though. You're only pushing the bar higher. And there's something else - instabilities should offer extra (and varying) challenge, but first and foremost they should be fun. Personally, I'm already fed up with Last Laugh in particular. Not because it's that difficult, or that it actually forces me to change my playstyle (it doesn't), simply because it dominates almost all fractals since the change. On top of that, stacking circles on top of other circles (or in the case of Molten Boss - stacking orange circles on an orange arena) is just stupid. That's not challenging your skill, that's making sure you get hit. It doesn't matter if I get personal stab or not. It will get overwhelmed because of the sheer amount of mobs, so it doesn't really make any difference. That's not fun at all. In fact all it does is force me to squeeze out all the dps I can so we can phase/kill the boss before we become pinballs.

But thing is, you don't need a lot of dps to complete fractals. Just that people aren't consistent, so they want to dps as quickly as possible before they get hit. That's pretty much the current culture. Well if it isn't that difficult..... and doesn't manage to change your playstyle.. obviously theres no problems.

The stabs will help, but for last laugh in particular, all you have to do to counter it is just to make sure you have a dodge as you kill an enemy if you want to be safe. So it forces you to kite better and need to monitor your stamina better. People just tend to over commit when engaging.

[squallaus.8321]

@"TexZero.7910" said:I know what they are and i also know that a vast majority of them are 15% or more worse than their melee counterparts when it comes to damage potential.

Now then i'd love for you to somehow make up for that with any "Ranged" build please. Show me a 5 man ranged only composition that is 1) Engaging and 2) Doesn't rely on gimmick cooldowns (PP Unload Theif as an example/ LB Ranger as another).

The biggest problem atm is that people care more about dps than anything else as displayed by various posts here.

Not everything should be ranged nor should everything be melee. At the moment everything is melee and standing in front of the boss all the time while being kept alive by the druid from behind is called engaging is laughable. Encounters should put players out of their comfort zone occasionally for the fights to be truly engaging.

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:That's still just a matter of dps though. You're only pushing the bar higher. And there's something else - instabilities should offer extra (and varying) challenge, but first and foremost they should be fun. Personally, I'm already fed up with Last Laugh in particular. Not because it's that difficult, or that it actually forces me to change my playstyle (it doesn't), simply because it dominates almost all fractals since the change. On top of that, stacking circles on top of other circles (or in the case of Molten Boss - stacking orange circles on an orange arena) is just stupid. That's not challenging your skill, that's making sure you get hit. It doesn't matter if I get personal stab or not. It will get overwhelmed because of the sheer amount of mobs, so it doesn't really make any difference. That's not fun at all. In fact all it does is force me to squeeze out all the dps I can so we can phase/kill the boss before we become pinballs.

But thing is, you don't need a lot of dps to complete fractals. Just that people aren't consistent, so they want to dps as quickly as possible before they get hit. That's pretty much the current culture. Well if it isn't that difficult..... and doesn't manage to change your playstyle.. obviously theres no problems.

The stabs will help, but for last laugh in particular, all you have to do to counter it is just to make sure you have a dodge as you kill an enemy if you want to be safe. So it forces you to kite better and need to monitor your stamina better. People just tend to over commit when engaging.

The thing is, people should commit when engaging. It's the correct teamplay. Sure, you can just dodge, but this makes the actions of the team unpredictable, making boon stacking and healing unpredictable. It's just easier and better to keep using the same strategy in order to not ruin your habits due to a random instability and find another way around it. Like sharing stab, or staying out of the danger zone, which however doesn't apply in Ensolyss' fight because there is no space there for it. You could argue that dodging out could be prioritized over dps, but I'm going to disagree here. Lower dps makes every fight longer, but in this particular phase it is going to be especially bad because of the increasing pressure coming from the chargers. And it's even worse because of them triggering LL at random positions. Again the correct teamplay is sticking with the meta and focusing on boss dps. It's much, MUCH safer.

[squallaus.8321]

@Feanor.2358 said:The thing is, people should commit when engaging. It's the correct teamplay. Sure, you can just dodge, but this makes the actions of the team unpredictable, making boon stacking and healing unpredictable. It's just easier and better to keep using the same strategy in order to not ruin your habits due to a random instability and find another way around it. Like sharing stab, or staying out of the danger zone, which however doesn't apply in Ensolyss' fight because there is no space there for it. You could argue that dodging out could be prioritized over dps, but I'm going to disagree here. Lower dps makes every fight longer, but in this particular phase it is going to be especially bad because of the increasing pressure coming from the chargers. And it's even worse because of them triggering LL at random positions. Again the correct teamplay is sticking with the meta and focusing on boss dps. It's much, MUCH safer.

Again this is the problem with the current culture of DPS to avoid mechanics and people are unable and unwilling to improve and improvise. If players actually had a higher standard of consistency longer fights shouldn't be a problem. LL explosions are not random positions, those mobs follow you.

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:The thing is, people should commit when engaging. It's the correct teamplay. Sure, you can just dodge, but this makes the actions of the team unpredictable, making boon stacking and healing unpredictable. It's just easier and better to keep using the same strategy in order to not ruin your habits due to a random instability and find another way around it. Like sharing stab, or staying out of the danger zone, which however doesn't apply in Ensolyss' fight because there is no space there for it. You could argue that dodging out could be prioritized over dps, but I'm going to disagree here. Lower dps makes every fight longer, but in this particular phase it is going to be especially bad because of the increasing pressure coming from the chargers. And it's even worse because of them triggering LL at random positions. Again the correct teamplay is sticking with the meta and focusing on boss dps. It's much, MUCH safer.

Again this is the problem with the current culture of DPS to avoid mechanics and people are unable and unwilling to improve and improvise. If players actually had a higher standard of consistency longer fights shouldn't be a problem. LL explosions are not random positions, those mobs follow you.

Except it's not a problem. It's called teamplay. Look, I've been on both sides. I've done it by doing mechanics and improvising, and I've done it by teamplay and high dps. Trust me, improvising and "consistency"isn't an improvement. And ironically it's much less consistent, too. Everyone makes mistakes. You're right about one thing - I'm not willing to go back to improvising. The dps route is much smoother, much safer, more fun and much better overall.

[squallaus.8321]

@"Feanor.2358" said:Except it's not a problem. It's called teamplay. Look, I've been on both sides. I've done it by doing mechanics and improvising, and I've done it by teamplay and high dps. Trust me, improvising and "consistency"isn't an improvement. And ironically it's much less consistent, too. Everyone makes mistakes. You're right about one thing - I'm not willing to go back to improvising. The dps route is much smoother, much safer, more fun and much better overall.

Team play and meta hasn't exactly been cutting it with certain mistlock instabilities combos because player being inconsistent and unable to improvise hasn't changed. Yeah, completing content to get loot without much effort is very smooth, safe and fun. You might as well ask for a "I Win" button that completes T4s instantly. There is a difference between improvise to the change of mechanics vs suboptimal play. There is nothing wrong with improvising to pass mechanics as you'd still be doing your best to clear the content as quickly as possible. The bottom line is not dying and clearing content. Your high golem DPS build wont matter if you're on the floor. Asking anet to make things simpler because you or the team as a whole are unable to handle the mechanics to maintaining the level of DPS possible on idle target is really lame.

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:Except it's not a problem. It's called teamplay. Look, I've been on both sides. I've done it by doing mechanics and improvising, and I've done it by teamplay and high dps. Trust me, improvising and "consistency"isn't an improvement. And ironically it's much less consistent, too. Everyone makes mistakes. You're right about one thing - I'm not willing to go back to improvising. The dps route is much smoother, much safer, more fun and much better overall.

Team play and meta hasn't exactly been cutting it with certain mistlock instabilities combos because player being inconsistent and unable to improvise hasn't changed. Yeah, completing content to get loot without much effort is very smooth, safe and fun. You might as well ask for a "I Win" button that completes T4s instantly. There is a difference between improvise to the change of mechanics vs suboptimal play. There is nothing wrong with improvising to pass mechanics as you'd still be doing your best to clear the content as quickly as possible. The bottom line is not dying and clearing content. Your high golem DPS build wont matter if you're on the floor. Asking anet to make things simpler because you or the team as a whole are unable to handle the mechanics to maintaining the level of DPS possible on idle target is really lame.

LOL, no. I'm not asking that, and I can assure you the meta parties I play in are very capable of handling mechanics. It's not about being unable to handle something, it's about being fun. Which isn't the same as "simple". But in some cases particular combinations are just annoying. They aren't challenging, they aren't fun, they're annoying. And that's not good on a content you want to play daily.

[Vinceman.4572]

@squallaus.8321 said:There are already mechanics in the open world for PoF that forces you to range attack some parts of the fight and some parts melee.

Are you fricking serious? You mean those boring and uninteresting bounties which can be rushed down in a small group of competent players instead of an open world blob with players on non-helpful setups? Please no!

They are just not implemented in fractals yet.

And we all hope that they'll never enter fractals like this. I'm sure they won't because that would destroy the philosophy of fractals.

If you're taking hours to do things then you're doing it wrong.

I was talking about ranging encounters. This is a brutal dps loss compared to standard tactics! You really don't know what you're talking about.

And if you're really blitzing through everything as you say you wouldn't find any instability annoying and be telling people how to handle certain instabilities instead..

That logic. Things can be annyoing but not challenging. Two different things. Additionally, you don't need to tell people how to handle stuff on CMs/T4s. They know the fights by heart.

As I said previously, as soon as something is more difficulty than what their meta builds can handle, they'll complain about it instead of using what their classes are capable of at the sacrifice of some DPS, as seen in these threads and reddit threads.

Still not able to read, hum? Groups that regularly run CMs still use meta builds and breeze through like before without the need of adjusting. Nothing has changed for us. We have dozen if not hundred of hours play time in challenge modes. The change is bs and adds nothing to the game or fun.

[TexZero.7910]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:Yeah thats the thing. You won't even need to do 50% of the dps that meta builds can dish out to clear T4 fractals in reasonable amount of time. So why not use ranged weapons occationally?

Why should an encounter become so cumbersome as to entirely deny melee to begin with ?

Melee is already punished more than ranged is in this game and as already stated not every class has good ranged weapons and trait synergies. So if you'd like to have classes excluded from fractals because of this then more power to you. Otherwise its best not to design this way because not everyone has 9 alts geared and ready to play fractals just incase there's 1-2 really bad combinations of instabilities.

Some one obviously can't read here, quite obviously "occationally" means "entirely".

What game have you been player? GW2 combat is not always safe at range, a lot of the time its safer to be in melee. Newbies die so much in instanced content like fractals because they tend to always stand in range and not get any of the buffs, not get any heals from their party members and get trapped by punishing ranged attacks from the bosses. Ranged attacks is also not safer a lot of the time because you need to kite optimally to avoid being hit. Ranged means larger distance to kite when melee means u can just side step the boss attacks.

You don't need 9 geared alts, you just need to swap some traits/util/weapons.

Guild Wars 2 Ranged to Melee safety disparity is hilarious. To think otherwise is pretty silly and novice of you. Ranged offers you the safety to disengage at any time, freely kite around and take near 0 damage. Melee on the other hand forces you to know what to dodge and when, it forces you to learn not only your cooldowns but other peoples cooldowns so that you know when your safe and when you're not.

Putting all of that aside, i'll like you to name me 1 Fractal Boss that actively seeks out ranged and makes it do more than just take a step to the left or right.Meanwhile i can name numerous bosses that have PBAoE's that will almost always nuke half if not more than half of your health.

[Linken.6345]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:There are already mechanics in the open world for PoF that forces you to range attack some parts of the fight and some parts melee.

Are you fricking serious? You mean those boring and uninteresting bounties which can be rushed down in a small group of competent players instead of an open world blob with players on non-helpful setups? Please no!

They are just not implemented in fractals yet.

And we all hope that they'll never enter fractals like this. I'm sure they won't because that would destroy the philosophy of fractals.

If you're taking hours to do things then you're doing it wrong.

I was talking about ranging encounters. This is a

brutal dps loss

compared to standard tactics! You really don't know what you're talking about.

And if you're really blitzing through everything as you say you wouldn't find any instability annoying and be telling people how to handle certain instabilities instead..

That logic. Things can be annyoing but not challenging. Two different things. Additionally, you don't need to tell people how to handle stuff on CMs/T4s. They know the fights by heart.

As I said previously, as soon as something is more difficulty than what their meta builds can handle, they'll complain about it instead of using what their classes are capable of at the sacrifice of some DPS, as seen in these threads and reddit threads.

Still not able to read, hum? Groups that regularly run CMs still use meta builds and breeze through like before without the need of adjusting. Nothing has changed for us. We have dozen if not hundred of hours play time in challenge modes. The change is bs and adds nothing to the game or fun.

Im sorry this change add nothing to you personaly but there are others it do add for mate, since you still breeze through then whats the problem?Hopefully the next change will add something for you aswell.

[squallaus.8321]

@"Feanor.2358" said:

LOL, no. I'm not asking that, and I can assure you the meta parties I play in are very capable of handling mechanics. It's not about being unable to handle something, it's about being fun. Which isn't the same as "simple". But in some cases particular combinations are just annoying. They aren't challenging, they aren't fun, they're annoying. And that's not good on a content you want to play daily.

shrugs I like being forced to play outside of how I usually play. The only difference between certain mistlock combinations is the way you need to kite and slight drop in dps as a result. You simply don't like it because your party wipe more often on these combinations.

[squallaus.8321]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"squallaus.8321" said:There are already mechanics in the open world for PoF that forces you to range attack some parts of the fight and some parts melee.

Are you fricking serious? You mean those boring and uninteresting bounties which can be rushed down in a small group of competent players instead of an open world blob with players on non-helpful setups? Please no!

They are just not implemented in fractals yet.

And we all hope that they'll never enter fractals like this. I'm sure they won't because that would destroy the philosophy of fractals.

Yes i'm serious there are mechanics that force people to range. You're just too dumb to see that they can be made more difficult and challenging.

If you're taking hours to do things then you're doing it wrong.

I was talking about ranging encounters. This is a

brutal dps loss

compared to standard tactics! You really don't know what you're talking about.

So what if you need to range certain parts of certain fights. Your obsession on getting high dps make you a very blind man indeed.

And if you're really blitzing through everything as you say you wouldn't find any instability annoying and be telling people how to handle certain instabilities instead..

That logic. Things can be annyoing but not challenging. Two different things. Additionally, you don't need to tell people how to handle stuff on CMs/T4s. They know the fights by heart.

Miore like you don't get how to handle the "annoying' content yet.

As I said previously, as soon as something is more difficulty than what their meta builds can handle, they'll complain about it instead of using what their classes are capable of at the sacrifice of some DPS, as seen in these threads and reddit threads.

Still not able to read, hum? Groups that regularly run CMs still use meta builds and breeze through like before without the need of adjusting. Nothing has changed for us. We have dozen if not hundred of hours play time in challenge modes. The change is bs and adds nothing to the game or fun.

Oh yes I can read alright its you that can't read. As I mentioned the presence of last laught in 99cm for the first time in 2 years people were forced to go outside of standing on the 2nd boss. The random mislocks certainly adds something to the game. They force players to be more consistent and force them to play outside their normal game and to improvise.

[squallaus.8321]

@TexZero.7910 said:

Guild Wars 2 Ranged to Melee safety disparity is hilarious. To think otherwise is pretty silly and novice of you. Ranged offers you the safety to disengage at any time, freely kite around and take near 0 damage. Melee on the other hand forces you to know what to dodge and when, it forces you to learn not only your cooldowns but other peoples cooldowns so that you know when your safe and when you're not.

Putting all of that aside, i'll like you to name me 1 Fractal Boss that actively seeks out ranged and makes it do more than just take a step to the left or right.Meanwhile i can name numerous bosses that have PBAoE's that will almost always nuke half if not more than half of your health.

Quite obviously you are someone who don't do raids and fractals. Currently for 99% of the bosses and mobs you want to stay melee to support each other and to minimize the distance you need to kite to avoid attacks. And nope, the difficulty that the current fractals are set at, you only need to know what to dodge at melee to survive. Or if you have competent support party members there, you wont need to dodge at all and simply need to stand in front of the boss the whole fight. Then came the random mistlock instabilities that forced people to kite and don't they like it so they come here and complain instead.

Mai Trin and Cliffside last boss in particular seeks players that are furthest away comes to mind. There are numerous bosses that has more deadly aoes at range compared to melee.

[Vinceman.4572]

@squallaus.8321 said:

Oh yes I can read alright its you that can't read. As I mentioned the presence of last laught in 99cm for the first time in 2 years people were forced to go outside of standing on the 2nd boss.

No, they weren't forced into something because you can do the same thing you were doing before. This phase was and is a chrono (and druid) thing - before and after - to make sure that your dps players can go full ham on the boss. LL hasn't changed anything there, only to ignorant players that had no clue of what they were doing at the last phase.That's why I'm against the upcoming Last Laugh change.

Mai Trin and Cliffside last boss in particular seeks players that are furthest away comes to mind. There are numerous bosses that has more deadly aoes at range compared to melee.

No, they are both rare exceptions. Besides it's their single range attack. Additionally, if you stand ranged on both bosses it's easier to recognize their jumps so are no real threat unless you move or react like a snail. The only "problems" at those will be your teammates because they will most likely kick you if you quasi-pull Mai or Archdiviner out of group aoes everytime and prolonging the fight extremely. Last but not least both encounters are deadlier when standing in melee range. Try them with inexperienced pugs and you'll see the massacre while decent groups will gather around those bosses and stick next to each other.

@squallaus.8321 said:Then came the random mistlock instabilities that forced people to kite and don't they like it so they come here and complain instead.

In competent groups you don't kite any fractal boss at all. There is not a single one.Maybe Jade Maw from a technically point of you but you don't fight it directly. ^^

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:

LOL, no. I'm not asking that, and I can assure you the meta parties I play in are very capable of handling mechanics. It's not about being unable to handle something, it's about being fun. Which isn't the same as "simple". But in some cases particular combinations are just annoying. They aren't challenging, they aren't fun, they're annoying. And that's not good on a content you want to play daily.

shrugs

I like being forced to play outside of how I usually play. The only difference between certain mistlock combinations is the way you need to kite and slight drop in dps as a result. You simply don't like it because your party wipe more often on these combinations.

Yeah, no. Consider the effects of Last Laugh or Toxic Trails in the button room in Underground (I've seen both). The game requires you to stay in one place (on the button) to execute the mechanic, then gives you randomly another mechanic which forces you to move away. It's annoying and it actually promotes cheesing your way, like using the aegis trick on the person who opens. Same goes for Last Laugh on Ensolyss. OK, so I need to dodge now? Where, exactly? The place is already crammed as it is, and already forces you to move because of the chargers. It doesn't wipe the party, it just prolongs the encounter without really adding anything to it.

[squallaus.8321]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

Oh yes I can read alright its you that can't read. As I mentioned the presence of last laught in 99cm for the first time in 2 years people were forced to go outside of standing on the 2nd boss.

No, they weren't forced into something because you can do the same thing you were doing before. This phase was and is a chrono (and druid) thing - before and after - to make sure that your dps players can go full ham on the boss. LL hasn't changed anything there, only to ignorant players that had no clue of what they were doing at the last phase.That's why I'm against the upcoming Last Laugh change.

Except the chrono and druid don't have control of 3 out of 5 hallucinations that tracks each of the players in the party. Chronos also can no longer give invulns to party members. Which ultimately is what forces the dpsers at the enter to improvise and move out of center for brief periods of time.

Mai Trin and Cliffside last boss in particular seeks players that are furthest away comes to mind. There are numerous bosses that has more deadly aoes at range compared to melee.

No, they are both rare exceptions. Besides it's their single range attack. Additionally, if you stand ranged on both bosses it's easier to recognize their jumps so are no real threat unless you move or react like a snail. The only "problems" at those will be your teammates because they will most likely kick you if you quasi-pull Mai or Archdiviner out of group aoes everytime and prolonging the fight extremely. Last but not least both encounters are deadlier when standing in melee range. Try them with inexperienced pugs and you'll see the massacre while decent groups will gather around those bosses and stick next to each other.

The point is, there are some encounters that tracks ranged players. And there are other encounters where its at a huge disadvantage to be at range because of the amount of distance you need to kite without needing to dodge compared to at melee. Certain animations are easy to recognise, but players may still not able to dodge them even though they pressed the dodge button before the hit, depending on their ping to the server. It's much easier to take advantage of shorter distances and kite in melee than it is at range. I take inexperience groups all the time. Provided they got enough AR they usually don't die with the right approach. It is easier if they are at melee as it is easier to rez them.

@squallaus.8321 said:Then came the random mistlock instabilities that forced people to kite and don't they like it so they come here and complain instead.

In competent groups you don't kite any fractal boss at all. There is not a single one.Maybe Jade Maw from a technically point of you but you don't fight it directly. ^^

It may not still force small group of players to kite, but it certainly forced 99% of the population to improvise or they wipe. This is not about bosses per say but for encounters in general. Toxic trail and last laugh at the last boss in twilight and swamp certainly made things more interesting.

[squallaus.8321]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

shrugs

I like being forced to play outside of how I usually play. The only difference between certain mistlock combinations is the way you need to kite and slight drop in dps as a result. You simply don't like it because your party wipe more often on these combinations.

Yeah, no. Consider the effects of Last Laugh or Toxic Trails in the button room in Underground (I've seen both). The game requires you to stay in one place (on the button) to execute the mechanic, then gives you randomly another mechanic which forces you to move away. It's annoying and it actually promotes cheesing your way, like using the aegis trick on the person who opens. Same goes for Last Laugh on Ensolyss. OK, so I need to dodge now? Where, exactly? The place is already crammed as it is, and already forces you to move because of the chargers. It doesn't wipe the party, it just prolongs the encounter without really adding anything to it.

While the effects of LL can be annoying at the section of Underground because most classes cannot dodge without moving off the buttons. But it isn't something that can't be handled without a bit of improvisation. For example you push or pull them away from the buttons before you kill them. As for aegis i'd argue that better skill play because you actually need to time the aegis to block attacks so u don't have your channeling cancelled.The problem with LL at Ensolyss is a problem with the camera view not the mistlock itself. LL and toxic trail at Siax certainly made it more fun because it forced players to kite more intelligently.

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

shrugs

I like being forced to play outside of how I usually play. The only difference between certain mistlock combinations is the way you need to kite and slight drop in dps as a result. You simply don't like it because your party wipe more often on these combinations.

Yeah, no. Consider the effects of Last Laugh or Toxic Trails in the button room in Underground (I've seen both). The game requires you to stay in one place (on the button) to execute the mechanic, then gives you randomly another mechanic which forces you to move away. It's annoying and it actually promotes cheesing your way, like using the aegis trick on the person who opens. Same goes for Last Laugh on Ensolyss. OK, so I need to dodge now? Where, exactly? The place is already crammed as it is, and already forces you to move because of the chargers. It doesn't wipe the party, it just prolongs the encounter without really adding anything to it.

While the effects of LL can be annoying at the section of Underground because most classes cannot dodge without moving off the buttons. But it isn't something that can't be handled without a bit of improvisation. For example you push or pull them away from the buttons before you kill them. As for aegis i'd argue that better skill play because you actually need to time the aegis to block attacks so u don't have your channeling cancelled.

It's not. You don't block the attacks, you block the interrupt from the closing door. You simply aegis on while channeling, then the other players step off the buttons and clear the trash. The aegis eats the interrupt, and you keep channeling through the closed door.

[squallaus.8321]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@squallaus.8321 said:

shrugs

I like being forced to play outside of how I usually play. The only difference between certain mistlock combinations is the way you need to kite and slight drop in dps as a result. You simply don't like it because your party wipe more often on these combinations.

Yeah, no. Consider the effects of Last Laugh or Toxic Trails in the button room in Underground (I've seen both). The game requires you to stay in one place (on the button) to execute the mechanic, then gives you randomly another mechanic which forces you to move away. It's annoying and it actually promotes cheesing your way, like using the aegis trick on the person who opens. Same goes for Last Laugh on Ensolyss. OK, so I need to dodge now? Where, exactly? The place is already crammed as it is, and already forces you to move because of the chargers. It doesn't wipe the party, it just prolongs the encounter without really adding anything to it.

While the effects of LL can be annoying at the section of Underground because most classes cannot dodge without moving off the buttons. But it isn't something that can't be handled without a bit of improvisation. For example you push or pull them away from the buttons before you kill them. As for aegis i'd argue that better skill play because you actually need to time the aegis to block attacks so u don't have your channeling cancelled.

It's not. You don't block the attacks, you block the interrupt from the closing door. You simply aegis on while channeling, then the other players step off the buttons and clear the trash. The aegis eats the interrupt, and you keep channeling through the closed door.

Tell anet to fix it then. You don't need to do that to stay alive on the bottons with LL and toxic trail enabled. You're just too lazy to change build or whatever even though changing some traits and utils don't take that long. I've never needed to do that trick with aegis.