Was druid nerf for spvp needed?

[Axl.8924]

I was thinking about this:I mean druid spec that has pure healer does almost no dmg, and sacrifices it for pure heals, so doesn't that balance it out?

I mean we can still get wrecked if we get ganged up by multiple people, because our dmg isn't high enough to compete with others when specced for healing.

Sure we got tons of support heals and defensives, but isn't that kinda the point?

[Yukio blaster.9082]

Are you kidding me !!! the druid can 1v2 and kill when being unkillable !!!! the pet do all the dmg for you, they need to nerf the druid sustain more because it's the cancer of sPVP for years now.The only reason why a lot of sPVP players don't play druid regardless of the fact that's it's OP and the king of the ring is because it's so boring to play(bunker build).

[Axl.8924]

As i said before:IF you focus on healing, you deal next to no damage.All your power goes into heals.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@Axl.8924 said:As i said before:IF you focus on healing, you deal next to no damage.All your power goes into heals.

I guess you never played vs good druids !! they can hold the point a kill you too .Druid is more like a firebrand, but with a +1(pet) and the ability to kill, the FB at least can't kill you .

[artemis.6781]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:Are you kidding me !!! the druid can 1v2 and kill when being unkillable !!!! the pet do all the dmg for you, they need to nerf the druid sustain more because it's the cancer of sPVP for years now.The only reason why a lot of sPVP players don't play druid regardless of the fact that's it's OP and the king of the ring is because it's so boring to play(bunker build).

OP said healing builds and is completely correct. You deal next to nothing in damage. And I can't take you seriously when you advocate that mirage isn't OP.

[Axl.8924]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Axl.8924 said:As i said before:IF you focus on healing, you deal next to no damage.All your power goes into heals.

I guess you never played vs good druids !! they can hold the point a kill you too .Druid is more like a firebrand, but with a +1(pet) and the ability to kill, the FB at least can't kill you .

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Axl.8924 said:As i said before:IF you focus on healing, you deal next to no damage.All your power goes into heals.

I guess you never played vs good druids !! they can hold the point a kill you too .Druid is more like a firebrand, but with a +1(pet) and the ability to kill, the FB at least can't kill you .

Power druids are one thing, and healer druids are another.You can be a power druid, but you got to spec for it, but you need the right sigils and build for healing, and you sacrifice dmg.Besides:Healer druids are likely to take different kind of pets for spvp for either helping keep them alive, or others.I know this because i have done pvp and i've done pve as well in fractals.I've done fractals as a power druid and i took the tiger pet.

[jcbroe.4329]

To more accurately pinpoint the question/point you're addressing; yes, the entire spec is being nerfed because of a single build.

No, it is not good design philosophy. The strongest options will be weakened and remain the strongest options, while the less optimal-as-determined-by-the-metagame options will become proportionally weaker.

If you're new or just haven't noticed before, then I'm sorry to be the one that informs you that ANet favors making blanket changes that disrupt entire classes over promoting and balancing towards build diversity.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Axl.8924 said:As i said before:IF you focus on healing, you deal next to no damage.All your power goes into heals.

There are certain stat combinations that let you still do some dmg despite being very sustainish.Druid could outlive a lot of stuff because of the heavy sustain.

Druid is still strong due to celestial shadow and the infamous reset button. The high skill level players are probably less affected than low to mid tier. Its less noob friendly, overall potebtial still on the good site IMO.

[OGDeadHead.8326]

@Axl.8924 said:I was thinking about this:I mean druid spec that has pure healer does almost no dmg, and sacrifices it for pure heals, so doesn't that balance it out?

I mean we can still get wrecked if we get ganged up by multiple people, because our dmg isn't high enough to compete with others when specced for healing.

Sure we got tons of support heals and defensives, but isn't that kinda the point?

There's a reason I don't log into this game anymore. Just by coming to these forums makes me frustrated to no end reading the stupidity (not aimed at you, OP), so I try to stay away, but curiosity takes over from time to time. As of late, especially the ranger forum seems to be swarmed by people promoting one nerf more ridiculous than the other. It's gotten to the point that even some of the regulars here wants to see this class nerfed.

When I see people claiming rangers, or druids rather, don't have to do anything but just stay alive and have their über pets do the killing, I know that the person pushing forth such claims is either a incredibly bad player and/or a player that's on a mission to nerf rangers to the ground so that they can get their free kills. More often than not, the complaints are coming from people playing thieves.

[Axl.8924]

I understand.I'm becoming more and more disillusioned with this game, and wondering if maybe i should have stuck to world of warcraft instead for pvp.

At this point Anet does some very similar things, but Blizzard acts far faster with small nerfs and buffs here and there on a steady stream.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:Are you kidding me !!! the druid can 1v2 and kill when being unkillable !!!! the pet do all the dmg for you, they need to nerf the druid sustain more because it's the cancer of sPVP for years now.The only reason why a lot of sPVP players don't play druid regardless of the fact that's it's OP and the king of the ring is because it's so boring to play(bunker build).

Mirage is worse than Druid by a long shot.

Why does no one complain about pets when the ranger is running Core or Soulbeast? Why is it only Druid? The pet isn't an issue. The autos on Smokescale hit for 570, the knockdown for 840, and smoke assault hits for 2600 total. The damage is incredibly low. A single maul can do more damage than all 3 of those attack put together.

Druid needs nerfs, but its not nearly as overpowered as you think. The problem is the amount of healing a Druid has access to in CA. For the record, I can 1v1 a Druid on point and win as a Berserker Core Ranger so Druid doesn't have much killing potential unless you're really bad. You keep claiming it can kill, but it really can't unless you're playing extremely poorly.

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Axl.8924 said:As i said before:IF you focus on healing, you deal next to no damage.All your power goes into heals.

I guess you never played vs good druids !! they can hold the point a kill you too .Druid is more like a firebrand, but with a +1(pet) and the ability to kill, the FB at least can't kill you .

Druid is trash in high tiers.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@artemis.6781 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:Are you kidding me !!! the druid can 1v2 and kill when being unkillable !!!! the pet do all the dmg for you, they need to nerf the druid sustain more because it's the cancer of sPVP for years now.The only reason why a lot of sPVP players don't play druid regardless of the fact that's it's OP and the king of the ring is because it's so boring to play(bunker build).

OP said healing builds and is completely correct. You deal next to nothing in damage. And I can't take you seriously when you advocate that mirage isn't OP.

This. But, again, non-druid players tend to think all about damage. They're definitely not used to someone who goes all healing and defense. Nope, we won't kill quickly, but our enemies won't kill us quickly either.

That kind of was the point of a druid: healing and survivability.

@shadowpass.4236 said:Mirage is worse than Druid by a long shot.

Agreed, but keep in mind most ranger players left the game or decided to play another class because ranger was so bad for so long. Mesmers have always been popular and powerful. Those of us that stuck with the ranger class and went druid are few. And those few, I would guess, know what they're doing . . . because we were forced to in order to survive.

Again, I'm amazed that the complaint isn't that we kill quick, but that other classes are having a hard time killing us. Again, that was kind of the point of being a druid.

[Prophet.1584]

Some sustain + some damage = a balanced class. Druid was damage, most others weren't balanced well. IMO ele had the same problem when all professions where vanilla. They could sustain and do dmg while others had to choose. 3s of stealth isn't op and most professions have access to superspeed in some way. Druid has a lot of healing in CAF but it's just one more way to reset a fight and it only helps if you spec for it. Mesmer can port, blink or distort to reset a fight, they also have access to stealth. Thieves have stealth and the most mobility of almost any class. warriors have heavy armor and the highest health pool and signet is OP. we can go on and on and on but it won't matter, anet seems to listen to the loudest mouths in pvp and they hate that the ranger isn't a free kill anymore.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

If they will nerf only the healing in CA form it will be ok. But they shouldn't make the healing of Druid less effectively than Guardian or Elementalist healing. Because Druid means a healing/support class too. Anet must find a way so Druid can be in the same way effective in healing like Guardian, no less.Maybe the most important thing is that Anet should focus to balance/nerf only the druid traits line and skills from CA form, they shouldn't touch the other ranger core traits line, because atm all those traits line work ok (ofc Soulbeast traits line must get some adjustment and sync with other traits line).Like I said before, with proper traits line and proper skills/rune and proper amulet, Soulbeast can hold a point almost like a Druid, not so good, but good enough in that way that ppl will not ask to nerf it because is too tanky or OP. In the same time you can go with Soulbeast with a hybrid build and can do a lot of damage, so please ANET don't nerf core ranger traits line.

PS: this time I wrote only from sPVP POV.

[Axl.8924]

agreed precisely.Druids spec is mostly about supportive healing spec.It shouldn't be nerfed too hard to be less effective. than any other character.I heard ele is more effective than druid now in spvp as support.I don't know if this is true so i can't confirm it.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Axl.8924 said:agreed precisely.Druids spec is mostly about supportive healing spec.It shouldn't be nerfed too hard to be less effective. than any other character.I heard ele is more effective than druid now in spvp as support.I don't know if this is true so i can't confirm it.

Yes ele it is , ele always was a very good healer since the vanila. In my opinion atm a good ele is almost the same like a druid, regarding support in sPVP. The difference between them is that Druid is better bunker but ele is better damage dealer ...

[Shadelang.3012]

Yes. Druid is worth nerfing. Druid doesnt have huge burst yes. But it still has enough pressure to kill. especially when combined with almost permanent poison uptime in 1v1s that is VERY easy to maintain. I don't think it should be DESTROYED like some people are calling for. If druid was playing as a healer in SPvP I would agree. But its not. Its the top node holder in the game and has been for a long time.

Druid is a ridiculously forgiving spec as well as a powerful 1v1er.

For the people saying druid is a support spec. The only place it is played as a support spec is in raids and in rare cases in WvW. 98% of the time in PvP it is as a node holder and 1v1er. Not a support. It CAN support. But thats not how its typically played. And in the role it IS played...it is excessively forgiving for the amount of impact it has.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Shadelang.3012 said:Yes. Druid is worth nerfing. Druid doesnt have huge burst yes. But it still has enough pressure to kill. especially when combined with almost permanent poison uptime in 1v1s that is VERY easy to maintain. I don't think it should be DESTROYED like some people are calling for. If druid was playing as a healer in SPvP I would agree. But its not. Its the top node holder in the game and has been for a long time.

Druid is a ridiculously forgiving spec as well as a powerful 1v1er.

For the people saying druid is a support spec. The only place it is played as a support spec is in raids and in rare cases in WvW. 98% of the time in PvP it is as a node holder and 1v1er. Not a support. It CAN support. But thats not how its typically played. And in the role it IS played...it is excessively forgiving for the amount of impact it has.

In GW2 are 3 types of game: PVE, sPVP and WvW. We have warriors front liners and damage dealers, guardians support/healing, etc ... in all 3 types of games, can you tell me please what it is Druid if he is not a support class ? Don't tell me a node holder, because in PVE and WvW you don't have node/points to hold. When you talk about a class you talk about his contribution in general (even we talk about sPVP, PVE or WvW). Ofc he can be a node holder in sPVP, because of his abilities, also a good bunker guardian can, also a good bunker engineer, a good warrior and now we can say a good Scourge too (ofc depend of the map for him), but this doesn't mean we can call Guardian in this game node holder, No, we call guardian a support/healer class. Every class or almost every class can do some support with proper build, or more damage etc, but every class in general terms has a proper initial/general role ... and from my POV Druid is a support/healer and I am pretty sure that this was Anet intention too.

[Axl.8924]

@Shadelang.3012 said:Yes. Druid is worth nerfing. Druid doesnt have huge burst yes. But it still has enough pressure to kill. especially when combined with almost permanent poison uptime in 1v1s that is VERY easy to maintain. I don't think it should be DESTROYED like some people are calling for. If druid was playing as a healer in SPvP I would agree. But its not. Its the top node holder in the game and has been for a long time.

Druid is a ridiculously forgiving spec as well as a powerful 1v1er.

For the people saying druid is a support spec. The only place it is played as a support spec is in raids and in rare cases in WvW. 98% of the time in PvP it is as a node holder and 1v1er. Not a support. It CAN support. But thats not how its typically played. And in the role it IS played...it is excessively forgiving for the amount of impact it has.

You won't be dealing ridiculous damage unless you are built for it, and you are acting as if they have inifnite healing/defensives and damage, when that is not the case.I think actually druid was/is a great example of a balanced class.I was even talking about the druid spec as an example and wished other classes had that kind of design where it offers something new not necessarily all about damage and such, but actually offers a new playstyle that is balanced, and it remains valuable now.That to me is how all classes should be designed.

Its sorta like the philosophy of deadeye for thief:Its a playstyle where you play as a sniper.Some like it, some don't, but its a great example of doing something with the class in a direction.

[Shadelang.3012]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 Its one of the top 1v1 specs in the game. Both in roaming and in PvP. So thats one. Yes nodeholding DOES count. Thats another for pvp. The ONLY place where I would say druid is normally used as a support is in PvE...And thats it. You OCCASIONALLY see druids in zergs. But there are other classes better at it.

heres my thing. If you want to claim druid is a support spec go ahead. Then MAKE IT A SUPPORT SPEC. chip away at its 1v1 potential and increases its healing to OTHER people. Will it need a bodyguard? Yeah but thats normal for support builds.

@Axl.8924 I never said druid does ridiculous damage. I said its ridiculously forgiving and it does ENOUGH damage. Enough to kill or wear down whatever it is 1v1ning making htem vulnerable to a +1. It also has very high decap potential. It only really does chip damage. But that chip damage combined with really high poison uptime and the ability to CC lock opponents for short periods when they need to heal is usually all it takes.

Yes you can troll a druid on a node. But actually killing them on that node is rather difficult. Especially since they can just CA-CA3 Leave CA disengage get ethre heal off and be back at full health.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Shadelang.3012 said:@Dragonzhunter.8506 Its one of the top 1v1 specs in the game. Both in roaming and in PvP.

Druid is one of the top in 1 vs 1 in roaming ? On what region/server ? Because I play WvW all days and I didn't see any , but any druid who can outperform a mesmer, warrior or soulbeast. Idd he can avoid a lot of damage, ofc he can run around all the time but he is definitely not top in 1 vs 1. I beat any druid I met with my Soulbeast.If in sPVP he is in top because of his survivability and because there he should stay on point and other classes must come to the point and claim it , and becase the fighting area is small, on some maps with pilons etc, in WvW Druid is not even close to top classes. Like I said he can survive more, and he can runaway but he hardly can kill another class. You know about troll daredevil build ? Well for me Druid is almost the same ... he don't die never but almost he can't finish another good player neither (I know I exaggerate a little because in time he can kill, other way troll daredevil thief can't)

heres my thing. If you want to claim druid is a support spec go ahead. Then MAKE IT A SUPPORT SPEC. chip away at its 1v1 potential and increases its healing to OTHER people. Will it need a bodyguard? Yeah but thats normal for support builds.

I don't want to claim something who is obvious. You are the one who want to call a class only from sPVP perspective, and only because you see also sPVP just from 1 vs 1 POV, and this is wrong. Because even in sPVP in a fight 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3 , druid won't be damage dealer or tanky one who absorb damage and sustain himself, but he heal the others, he will provide invisibility, fast resurrection remove condi etc ... (I don't want know to show you what he does for the others because I suppose you already know).

@Axl.8924 I never said druid does ridiculous damage. I said its ridiculously forgiving and it does ENOUGH damage. Enough to kill or wear down whatever it is 1v1ning making htem vulnerable to a +1. It also has very high decap potential. It only really does chip damage. But that chip damage combined with really high poison uptime and the ability to CC lock opponents for short periods when they need to heal is usually all it takes.

If you want a class who has a real damage combined with really CC ability much better than Druid, well then take the Engineer ... he is from far the best damage+cc dealer in the same time. Also he can survive a lot. Don't mess the things ...

PS: are you sure that top class in sPVP (I mean no.1 ) is Druid ? just asking ...

[voltaicbore.8012]

In low plat (I hover around 1535 almost all season), bunker druid is definitely a strong spec. With few exceptions, I can stall far infinitely in a 1v1, and can keep a 1v2 or 1v3 quite busy. Either way, I'm creating an imbalance that favors my team while being annoyingly hard to kill, and that's become my job. I've learned to be more patient with cleanses, and it's really helped me compete with the rare times scourges are at far early in the match. Compared to my blood magic scourge (which I'll describe further down the post), I feel like the tradeoff is fair. I can survive exceeding well, but I generally can't kill you unless you make a mistake.

As for damage, I have really low output. I do have easy access to 25 might and a pet, but compared to other damage-oriented classes and specs I've played on, my bunker druid hits very weakly. The only way for me to land a kill on most matchups is to force errors and timing interrupts, then pushing hard to exploit the opening (I run a sigil of exploitation on my sword/warhorn set for that reason). Essentially, I'm depending on scaring the other person into making mistakes. I think the only class I can kill almost at will is thief, and it's probably more a function of how easily dismayed thieves are at low plat when I negate their bursts and don't act frightened.

This is all in stark contrast to the way I play my barrier-spamming blood magic scourge. Not only can I regularly spam barrier to help myself (and teammates!) survive, those same barriers offer steady cleanse and give might (again, to teammates too!). At the same time that I am protecting, cleansing, healing, and buffing myself and teammates, I'm also dropping tons of aoe conditions and boon corrupt. The cherry on top is being able to pull downed teammates to safety for a fast rez. The blood magic scourge doesn't heal nearly as well as a bunker druid, but more than makes up for it with real offensive pressure.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Axl.8924 said:I understand.I'm becoming more and more disillusioned with this game, and wondering if maybe i should have stuck to world of warcraft instead for pvp.

At this point Anet does some very similar things, but Blizzard acts far faster with small nerfs and buffs here and there on a steady stream.

Blizzard is a bigger company. Anet is actually kinda indie. They have way less staff and they have 3 gamemodes to balance which doesnt makes stuff easier. The balance team consist of 3 dudes, who do actually do a good job lately.I was very surprized that they finally adressed mesmer phantasm passive playstyle and i hope they look at other profession mechanic problems too.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Axl.8924 said:agreed precisely.Druids spec is mostly about supportive healing spec.It shouldn't be nerfed too hard to be less effective. than any other character.I heard ele is more effective than druid now in spvp as support.I don't know if this is true so i can't confirm it.

Yes ele it is , ele always was a very good healer since the vanila. In my opinion atm a good ele is almost the same like a druid, regarding support in sPVP. The difference between them is that Druid is better bunker but ele is better damage dealer ...

Ele better support than druid now?...with what Tempest?? Are you kidding me?...are we talking about ele in gw2 or ele from another game?ele better dmg dealer yeah in pve on static golems for certain....

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Arheundel.6451 said:Ele better support than druid now?...with what Tempest?? Are you kidding me?...are we talking about ele in gw2 or ele from another game?ele better dmg dealer yeah in pve on static golems for certain....

Yes, ele is much better than druid regarding damage in both sPVP and WvW. Ele always was a very good healer, in fact he and guardian was the only healers in GW2 before HoT. I don't know what game are you playing , definitely not GW2 if you don't know these.