PVP Scrapper -- Stop the nerfs

[N A T E.3108]

So... as scrapper in pvp, being a part of the out-of-play class list, I have a plead for anet. PLEASE, do not nerf protection injection for us. We need that protection pretty bad considering that this update is ANOTHER nerf to an already dead class. The last major update removed 300 toughness and 20% condi reduction for a 1k barrier/3s. This made us considerably more squishy to spikes and conditions. Along with this, we lost TONS of condition removal viability through alchemy, because we have always been dependant on that trait line for condi (purge gyro is a joke: bad ai, and at the cost of a stunbreak utility). So, please, stop trying to kill us. Scrapper is a fun class and I love it.

Also, I realize that you want us to run alchemy and inventions for the protection clear.... but you have to realize that by going full bunker, we lose ALL damage. Not just a little, I mean all. It's terrible and those few little barrier skills are jokes, esp when you are forced to take Heal gyro in place of healing turret to maximize that the protection/clear trait. I have tried full bunker, and honestly, I still can nearly be one-shotted by a mesmer, or beat down by a single warrior. It isn't a viable bunker class.

So please... just stop with the nerfs. No one even plays scrapper, nor have they for a long time now (even before last balance update)... at least give us something to make up for the loss in Protection injection, self-regulating defenses, adaptive armor, and alchemy. These have been nerfs focused only on holosmith, and you all haven't taken into account what it is doing to scrapper.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

Scrapper will instantly come back as one of the most OP builds if there are no nerfs to it considering that ALL meta PoF builds will be heavily nerfed. PoF builds nerfed -> second best options will come out best, like scrapper.

Why can't people understand that not only their favorite build is getting nerfed but pretty much everything. Look at the big picture

[Yannir.4132]

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Scrapper will instantly come back as one of the most OP builds if there are no nerfs to it considering that ALL meta PoF builds will be heavily nerfed. PoF builds nerfed -> second best options will come out best, like scrapper.

Why can't people understand that not only their favorite build is getting nerfed but pretty much everything. Look at the big picture

Exactly. And if this patch comes with a fix to the huge function gyro bug, I will pick up my scrapper after the patch today.

[Rysdude.3824]

When people say scrapper is OP, what field are they OP in? Just PvP?

[Shirlias.8104]

Given the fact that this is the SPvP section, i presume they are talking about SPvP.

[Rysdude.3824]

Ah good point. Mobile site doesnt really indicate unless you dive deeper in. Thanks!

[Chaith.8256]

I played Scrapper for a long time this weekend passed. It was off season but I'm confident that when most or all of the multiple game-breaking Scrapper bugs are fixed and damage across the board is nerfed 20%ish today, Scrapper will not be useless.

The last patch that did away with Alchemical Tincture condi removal did help bunker support Scrapper, it can stand up to a scourge onslaught when built to do so.

[N A T E.3108]

I would love for the scrapper bugs to be dealt with; however, that won't change that they are still nerfing scrapper AGAIN. It is not in a good place. And honestly, how much damage do you think is being nerfed? Holo is getting nerfed to the explosives triat line... And a little bit to the the overall Holo chain, but it will mostly remain the same. Damage on other classes? Most, even will the nerfs, will come out on top over scrap, esp with us losing protection injection's viability and gaining a CD on self-regulating. Scrapper is not viable at all right now as a bunker- it just doesn't have that capability as much as anet claims it does. Our issue: you need alchemy for viable survival (because gyros are a complete joke) and you need inventions' to deal with conditions, forcing you to be an extremely low-damage, useless addition to a team.. all this while being forced to bring the severely sub-par healing gyro in place of healing turret. It's a bad system that makes for a joke of a "tank" class that honestly can't tank compared to every other class out there. You realistically can't even win bunker situations in a 1v1 format. I've gotten around this by using one of my old builds and just blocking/dodging all of the condition spams while traiting for dps... but man I miss my elixir clears... we need them badly.

[Chaith.8256]

@"N A T E.3108" said:I would love for the scrapper bugs to be dealt with; however, that won't change that they are still nerfing scrapper AGAIN. It is not in a good place. And honestly, how much damage do you think is being nerfed? Holo is getting nerfed to the explosives triat line... And a little bit to the the overall Holo chain, but it will mostly remain the same. Damage on other classes? Most, even will the nerfs, will come out on top over scrap, esp with us losing protection injection's viability and gaining a CD on self-regulating. Scrapper is not viable at all right now as a bunker- it just doesn't have that capability as much as anet claims it does. Our issue: you need alchemy for viable survival (because gyros are a complete joke) and you need inventions' to deal with conditions, forcing you to be an extremely low-damage, useless addition to a team.. all this while being forced to bring the severely sub-par healing gyro in place of healing turret. It's a bad system that makes for a joke of a "tank" class that honestly can't tank compared to every other class out there. You realistically can't even win bunker situations in a 1v1 format. I've gotten around this by using one of my old builds and just blocking/dodging all of the condition spams while traiting for dps... but man I miss my elixir clears... we need them badly.

I simply disagree with any post that doesn't take into account the revive utility of Scrapper, way underestimating Scrapper potential when played correctly.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

@Yannir.4132 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Scrapper will instantly come back as one of the most OP builds if there are no nerfs to it considering that ALL meta PoF builds will be heavily nerfed. PoF builds nerfed -> second best options will come out best, like scrapper.

Why can't people understand that not only their favorite build is getting nerfed but pretty much everything. Look at the big picture

Exactly. And if this patch comes with a fix to the huge function gyro bug, I will pick up my scrapper after the patch today.

Several bug fixes for engineer will be in today's release.

[Krypto.2069]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Scrapper will instantly come back as one of the most OP builds if there are no nerfs to it considering that ALL meta PoF builds will be heavily nerfed. PoF builds nerfed -> second best options will come out best, like scrapper.

Why can't people understand that not only their favorite build is getting nerfed but pretty much everything. Look at the big picture

Exactly. And if this patch comes with a fix to the huge function gyro bug, I will pick up my scrapper after the patch today.

Several bug fixes for engineer will be in today's release.

Pale Tree, be PRAISED!!! \o/Thank you! :smiley:

[Vagrant.7206]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Scrapper will instantly come back as one of the most OP builds if there are no nerfs to it considering that ALL meta PoF builds will be heavily nerfed. PoF builds nerfed -> second best options will come out best, like scrapper.

Why can't people understand that not only their favorite build is getting nerfed but pretty much everything. Look at the big picture

Exactly. And if this patch comes with a fix to the huge function gyro bug, I will pick up my scrapper after the patch today.

Several bug fixes for engineer will be in today's release.

Still more work to do with the 1 barrier bug and adaptive armor not activating appropriately.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Scrapper will instantly come back as one of the most OP builds if there are no nerfs to it considering that ALL meta PoF builds will be heavily nerfed. PoF builds nerfed -> second best options will come out best, like scrapper.

Why can't people understand that not only their favorite build is getting nerfed but pretty much everything. Look at the big picture

Exactly. And if this patch comes with a fix to the huge function gyro bug, I will pick up my scrapper after the patch today.

Several bug fixes for engineer will be in today's release.

Still more work to do with the 1 barrier bug and adaptive armor not activating appropriately.

We're looking at 'em.

[zoopop.5630]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@"rank eleven monk.9502" said:Scrapper will instantly come back as one of the most OP builds if there are no nerfs to it considering that ALL meta PoF builds will be heavily nerfed. PoF builds nerfed -> second best options will come out best, like scrapper.

Why can't people understand that not only their favorite build is getting nerfed but pretty much everything. Look at the big picture

Exactly. And if this patch comes with a fix to the huge function gyro bug, I will pick up my scrapper after the patch today.

Several bug fixes for engineer will be in today's release.

Still more work to do with the 1 barrier bug and adaptive armor not activating appropriately.

We're looking at 'em.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33973/balance-team-please-explain-the-lack-of-caring-for-fixing-scrapper#latest , Made this post before checking this however theirs AT least 2-3 things that should still be looked at.

[zoopop.5630]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"N A T E.3108" said:I would love for the scrapper bugs to be dealt with; however, that won't change that they are still nerfing scrapper AGAIN. It is not in a good place. And honestly, how much damage do you think is being nerfed? Holo is getting nerfed to the explosives triat line... And a little bit to the the overall Holo chain, but it will mostly remain the same. Damage on other classes? Most, even will the nerfs, will come out on top over scrap, esp with us losing protection injection's viability and gaining a CD on self-regulating. Scrapper is not viable at all right now as a bunker- it just doesn't have that capability as much as anet claims it does. Our issue: you need alchemy for viable survival (because gyros are a complete joke) and you need inventions' to deal with conditions, forcing you to be an extremely low-damage, useless addition to a team.. all this while being forced to bring the severely sub-par healing gyro in place of healing turret. It's a bad system that makes for a joke of a "tank" class that honestly can't tank compared to every other class out there. You realistically can't even win bunker situations in a 1v1 format. I've gotten around this by using one of my old builds and just blocking/dodging all of the condition spams while traiting for dps... but man I miss my elixir clears... we need them badly.

I simply disagree with any post that doesn't take into account the revive utility of Scrapper, way underestimating Scrapper potential when played correctly.

^

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

Well, patch is out, many bugs (if not all major ones) fixed. Now time to find a main engi to try out scrapper in a monthly AT and make it to top 3 teams, because that's literally what metabattle is built from so everyone can shut up about how bad it is because it's on metabattle and metabattle builds are what people seem to base literally all of their opinions on.

[BeLZedaR.4790]

I feel your pain as a former condi rev player.Nerfed more and more despite already being on edge of uselessness.

[zoopop.5630]

My opinion atm is that it's still just as bad as it was, just less buggy now (still at least 3 major bugs afflicting the spec, on top of poor design choices behind gyros). The hammer cannot hold against a scourge, which is frankly still quite powerful. If a tank is so easily wrecked by a common build, it's not really a tank, and should not be considered as such.

scrapper suppose to be the "tank" version of engi however it's not tanky AT all and the fact that it gets burst down so easily by Mesmer, scourges, thief's, and warriors is a major issue. At best the class is designed to be a mediocre support bunker (AT BEST).

At best you can use the class as a bunker support http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUncoCtoiFpCubBkfhlKjScZCgwL86Kmvi+tj78G-jJRQABAs/w3PAApLDc+FAAA

Build 2 is for pure Rifle burst with gyro helping to keep your dps up at all times....however for this to work you need to actually have gyro land on target which at times doesn't work....http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnUUBtoidpCmXBkfhF2i67FuwDgO4H+lHME3gAA-jJROABn/AAe/CAwdZAA2fAA

IMO scrapper need to be completely redone for it to really even be meta/viable in high end games in rank. Also if Adaptive armor worked it'll make build 1 really really powerful for team fights, however it's still broken.

Why rifle on scrapper is why you would wonder? The Range and Leap on rifle 5 alone is leaps ahead of what hammer can really offer for scrapper imo. With the amount of Field combo theirs no excuse as to why we wouldn't want to use rifle especially in today meta against Scrouges, Rangers, Holos and even Rev the Poke Range and combos given from rifle offers more options overall then what the SLOW and clunky hammer can really give us. With elixir X your pretty much given Close/Range combat options that can help secure a fight for your team depending on how good you are at kitting with rifle as well. The only issue we run into is that scrapper aren't really meant to use rifle , It feels really weird of gimmicky but the fact that it performance better then a hammer at the moment kinda shows you the state scrapper in.

[Ghos.1326]

@"zoopop.5630" said:My opinion atm is that it's still just as bad as it was, just less buggy now (still at least 3 major bugs afflicting the spec, on top of poor design choices behind gyros). The hammer cannot hold against a scourge, which is frankly still quite powerful. If a tank is so easily wrecked by a common build, it's not really a tank, and should not be considered as such.

scrapper suppose to be the "tank" version of engi however it's not tanky AT all and the fact that it gets burst down so easily by Mesmer, scourges, thief's, and warriors is a major issue. At best the class is designed to be a mediocre support bunker (AT BEST).

At best you can use the class as a bunker support http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUncoCtoiFpCubBkfhlKjScZCgwL86Kmvi+tj78G-jJRQABAs/w3PAApLDc+FAAA

Build 2 is for pure Rifle burst with gyro helping to keep your dps up at all times....however for this to work you need to actually have gyro land on target which at times doesn't work....http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnUUBtoidpCmXBkfhF2i67FuwDgO4H+lHME3gAA-jJROABn/AAe/CAwdZAA2fAA

IMO scrapper need to be completely redone for it to really even be meta/viable in high end games in rank. Also if Adaptive armor worked it'll make build 1 really really powerful for team fights, however it's still broken.

Why rifle on scrapper is why you would wonder? The Range and Leap on rifle 5 alone is leaps ahead of what hammer can really offer for scrapper imo. With the amount of Field combo theirs no excuse as to why we wouldn't want to use rifle especially in today meta against Scrouges, Rangers, Holos and even Rev the Poke Range and combos given from rifle offers more options overall then what the SLOW and clunky hammer can really give us. With elixir X your pretty much given Close/Range combat options that can help secure a fight for your team depending on how good you are at kitting with rifle as well. The only issue we run into is that scrapper aren't really meant to use rifle , It feels really weird of gimmicky but the fact that it performance better then a hammer at the moment kinda shows you the state scrapper in.

Part of what makes scrapper a tank is its barrier, and the functionality of the hammer. Hammer is not uberly powerful because it's main purpose is mostly for defensive, while offering bruiser level damage. It's not supposed to hit as hard as rifle. Though I do agree, some traits in the scrapper line should be looked at, and the 1 barrier bug, as well as the adaptive armor bug, needs to be addressed as well, as it can hamper the defensive abilities of the scrapper. I also made a forum post with a bunch of other posts on said post on how some traits can be changed or tweaked to better suit the playstyle the scrapper is designed to bring out of the engineer. Hopefully with enough views, and people knowing about it and helping to suggest them, some of them might actually get put into the game.I made a build, however, that makes scrapper a decent tanky spec. I'll have to post it here some time soon.

[zoopop.5630]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@"zoopop.5630" said:My opinion atm is that it's still just as bad as it was, just less buggy now (still at least 3 major bugs afflicting the spec, on top of poor design choices behind gyros). The hammer cannot hold against a scourge, which is frankly still quite powerful. If a tank is so easily wrecked by a common build, it's not really a tank, and should not be considered as such.

scrapper suppose to be the "tank" version of engi however it's not tanky AT all and the fact that it gets burst down so easily by Mesmer, scourges, thief's, and warriors is a major issue. At best the class is designed to be a mediocre support bunker (AT BEST).

At best you can use the class as a bunker support

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUncoCtoiFpCubBkfhlKjScZCgwL86Kmvi+tj78G-jJRQABAs/w3PAApLDc+FAAA

Build 2 is for pure Rifle burst with gyro helping to keep your dps up at all times....however for this to work you need to actually have gyro land on target which at times doesn't work....

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnUUBtoidpCmXBkfhF2i67FuwDgO4H+lHME3gAA-jJROABn/AAe/CAwdZAA2fAA

IMO scrapper need to be completely redone for it to really even be meta/viable in high end games in rank. Also if Adaptive armor worked it'll make build 1 really really powerful for team fights, however it's still broken.

Why rifle on scrapper is why you would wonder? The Range and Leap on rifle 5 alone is leaps ahead of what hammer can really offer for scrapper imo. With the amount of Field combo theirs no excuse as to why we wouldn't want to use rifle especially in today meta against Scrouges, Rangers, Holos and even Rev the Poke Range and combos given from rifle offers more options overall then what the SLOW and clunky hammer can really give us. With elixir X your pretty much given Close/Range combat options that can help secure a fight for your team depending on how good you are at kitting with rifle as well. The only issue we run into is that scrapper aren't really meant to use rifle , It feels really weird of gimmicky but the fact that it performance better then a hammer at the moment kinda shows you the state scrapper in.

Part of what makes scrapper a tank is its barrier, and the functionality of the hammer. Hammer is not uberly powerful because it's main purpose is mostly for defensive, while offering bruiser level damage. It's not supposed to hit as hard as rifle. Though I do agree, some traits in the scrapper line should be looked at, and the 1 barrier bug, as well as the adaptive armor bug, needs to be addressed as well, as it can hamper the defensive abilities of the scrapper. I also made a forum post with a bunch of other posts on said post on how some traits can be changed or tweaked to better suit the playstyle the scrapper is designed to bring out of the engineer. Hopefully with enough views, and people knowing about it and helping to suggest them, some of them might actually get put into the game.I made a build, however, that makes scrapper a decent tanky spec. I'll have to post it here some time soon.

That the thing the hammer doesn't do anything to consider it "tanky" at all, Reflecting something for 1 1/2 second or blocking attacks for 2seconds on hammer doesn't do anything when going up against Condi bombers like Mirage, Rev, and Necros. Matter Fact even Hammer 2/4 against Holo, Warriors, and power mesmer doesn't do fiddle sticks. If the Hammer granted protection , or even retaliation it'll be much better but in reality it doesn't. With the release of POF everything has been changed in terms of speed combat/nuking abilities that just cripples scrapper.

Hammer doesn't offer anything unless your fighting against a range bow /rifle class who doesn't know how to fight against a hammer scrapper. Scrapper aren't tank and IF they are planning to make them a Support class then they need to make Hammer feel like it's supportive instead.

[Ghos.1326]

@zoopop.5630 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:My opinion atm is that it's still just as bad as it was, just less buggy now (still at least 3 major bugs afflicting the spec, on top of poor design choices behind gyros). The hammer cannot hold against a scourge, which is frankly still quite powerful. If a tank is so easily wrecked by a common build, it's not really a tank, and should not be considered as such.

scrapper suppose to be the "tank" version of engi however it's not tanky AT all and the fact that it gets burst down so easily by Mesmer, scourges, thief's, and warriors is a major issue. At best the class is designed to be a mediocre support bunker (AT BEST).

At best you can use the class as a bunker support

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUncoCtoiFpCubBkfhlKjScZCgwL86Kmvi+tj78G-jJRQABAs/w3PAApLDc+FAAA

Build 2 is for pure Rifle burst with gyro helping to keep your dps up at all times....however for this to work you need to actually have gyro land on target which at times doesn't work....

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnUUBtoidpCmXBkfhF2i67FuwDgO4H+lHME3gAA-jJROABn/AAe/CAwdZAA2fAA

IMO scrapper need to be completely redone for it to really even be meta/viable in high end games in rank. Also if Adaptive armor worked it'll make build 1 really really powerful for team fights, however it's still broken.

Why rifle on scrapper is why you would wonder? The Range and Leap on rifle 5 alone is leaps ahead of what hammer can really offer for scrapper imo. With the amount of Field combo theirs no excuse as to why we wouldn't want to use rifle especially in today meta against Scrouges, Rangers, Holos and even Rev the Poke Range and combos given from rifle offers more options overall then what the SLOW and clunky hammer can really give us. With elixir X your pretty much given Close/Range combat options that can help secure a fight for your team depending on how good you are at kitting with rifle as well. The only issue we run into is that scrapper aren't really meant to use rifle , It feels really weird of gimmicky but the fact that it performance better then a hammer at the moment kinda shows you the state scrapper in.

Part of what makes scrapper a tank is its barrier, and the functionality of the hammer. Hammer is not uberly powerful because it's main purpose is mostly for defensive, while offering bruiser level damage. It's not supposed to hit as hard as rifle. Though I do agree, some traits in the scrapper line should be looked at, and the 1 barrier bug, as well as the adaptive armor bug, needs to be addressed as well, as it can hamper the defensive abilities of the scrapper. I also made a forum post with a bunch of other posts on said post on how some traits can be changed or tweaked to better suit the playstyle the scrapper is designed to bring out of the engineer. Hopefully with enough views, and people knowing about it and helping to suggest them, some of them might actually get put into the game.I made a build, however, that makes scrapper a decent tanky spec. I'll have to post it here some time soon.

That the thing the hammer doesn't do anything to consider it "tanky" at all, Reflecting something for 1 1/2 second or blocking attacks for 2seconds on hammer doesn't do anything when going up against Condi bombers like Mirage, Rev, and Necros. Matter Fact even Hammer 2/4 against Holo, Warriors, and power mesmer doesn't do fiddle sticks. If the Hammer granted protection , or even retaliation it'll be much better but in reality it doesn't. With the release of POF everything has been changed in terms of speed combat/nuking abilities that just cripples scrapper.

Hammer doesn't offer anything unless your fighting against a range bow /rifle class who doesn't know how to fight against a hammer scrapper. Scrapper aren't tank and IF they are planning to make them a Support class then they need to make Hammer feel like it's supportive instead.

Don't forget hammer 3. it evades attacks as well for each leap.

[zoopop.5630]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:My opinion atm is that it's still just as bad as it was, just less buggy now (still at least 3 major bugs afflicting the spec, on top of poor design choices behind gyros). The hammer cannot hold against a scourge, which is frankly still quite powerful. If a tank is so easily wrecked by a common build, it's not really a tank, and should not be considered as such.

scrapper suppose to be the "tank" version of engi however it's not tanky AT all and the fact that it gets burst down so easily by Mesmer, scourges, thief's, and warriors is a major issue. At best the class is designed to be a mediocre support bunker (AT BEST).

At best you can use the class as a bunker support

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUncoCtoiFpCubBkfhlKjScZCgwL86Kmvi+tj78G-jJRQABAs/w3PAApLDc+FAAA

Build 2 is for pure Rifle burst with gyro helping to keep your dps up at all times....however for this to work you need to actually have gyro land on target which at times doesn't work....

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnUUBtoidpCmXBkfhF2i67FuwDgO4H+lHME3gAA-jJROABn/AAe/CAwdZAA2fAA

IMO scrapper need to be completely redone for it to really even be meta/viable in high end games in rank. Also if Adaptive armor worked it'll make build 1 really really powerful for team fights, however it's still broken.

Why rifle on scrapper is why you would wonder? The Range and Leap on rifle 5 alone is leaps ahead of what hammer can really offer for scrapper imo. With the amount of Field combo theirs no excuse as to why we wouldn't want to use rifle especially in today meta against Scrouges, Rangers, Holos and even Rev the Poke Range and combos given from rifle offers more options overall then what the SLOW and clunky hammer can really give us. With elixir X your pretty much given Close/Range combat options that can help secure a fight for your team depending on how good you are at kitting with rifle as well. The only issue we run into is that scrapper aren't really meant to use rifle , It feels really weird of gimmicky but the fact that it performance better then a hammer at the moment kinda shows you the state scrapper in.

Part of what makes scrapper a tank is its barrier, and the functionality of the hammer. Hammer is not uberly powerful because it's main purpose is mostly for defensive, while offering bruiser level damage. It's not supposed to hit as hard as rifle. Though I do agree, some traits in the scrapper line should be looked at, and the 1 barrier bug, as well as the adaptive armor bug, needs to be addressed as well, as it can hamper the defensive abilities of the scrapper. I also made a forum post with a bunch of other posts on said post on how some traits can be changed or tweaked to better suit the playstyle the scrapper is designed to bring out of the engineer. Hopefully with enough views, and people knowing about it and helping to suggest them, some of them might actually get put into the game.I made a build, however, that makes scrapper a decent tanky spec. I'll have to post it here some time soon.

That the thing the hammer doesn't do anything to consider it "tanky" at all, Reflecting something for 1 1/2 second or blocking attacks for 2seconds on hammer doesn't do anything when going up against Condi bombers like Mirage, Rev, and Necros. Matter Fact even Hammer 2/4 against Holo, Warriors, and power mesmer doesn't do fiddle sticks. If the Hammer granted protection , or even retaliation it'll be much better but in reality it doesn't. With the release of POF everything has been changed in terms of speed combat/nuking abilities that just cripples scrapper.

Hammer doesn't offer anything unless your fighting against a range bow /rifle class who doesn't know how to fight against a hammer scrapper. Scrapper aren't tank and IF they are planning to make them a Support class then they need to make Hammer feel like it's supportive instead.

Don't forget hammer 3. it evades attacks as well for each leap.

That's right for a second. I just can't stand to like hammer at the moment with current meta at all. It's a bad bad match up today specs.

[vaxjani.9073]

From the games i played i havent got any problem with scrapper (didnt watch for adaptive armor bug, maybe it happened). I think its quite powerful in the right hands and have many favorable matchups. It can help in teamfights and do well in 1v1s and smaller fights too. Necro was always a counter to engineer, and engi in general doesnt fare too well against pure condition builds. Hammer is a good weapon in my opinion, i dont have any problem with it and i like to play with it.At the moment people are trying out builds so we cant say anything for sure, but i dont think scrapper is in a bad spot. (Note that i play a more aggressive scrapper with demolisher ammy and not a bunker build, and the enemies were around high gold-mid plat ppl)

[N A T E.3108]

Here are the issues with scrapper: with condition removals pulled from elixirs, it doesn't have condition removal capabilities while still doing damage; you can trait for condi removal with inventions and Medic Gyro, but at the same time, you are being forced to bring alchemy as well for survivability (without it, you are dead in one-spike from a power class) therefore preventing even semi-good dps from the other traitlines. Some might say that you should just bring the condition conversion elixir or the clear gyro, but in so doing, you replace a heavily needed stun break, leaving you dead in the water without Elixer S on recharge. In addition to this, they removed any good-source of protection (beyond condition conversion in alchemy) therefore making us severely crippled vs power spikes (the protection-injection nerf was severely uncalled for). Damage-wise, even when traited for damage, we don't do much; we have low-mobility, and limited resources beyond spamming acid bomb on point (which is a good option) but in most scenarios scrapper is not very viable. Even when fully traited for tanking/bunker, scrapper just isn't built for it; we cant face tank dps- we have to avoid it. A single mesmer can burst us in one spike, and a single warrior can hit us down 50% with one hit (don't get me started on deadeye) and you combine that in a team fight with just the slightest bit of condi, and BAM self-regulating defenses will rupt your clear and leave you with 4s of unavoidable hell.... and imminent death and a useless tank. When your "tank" cant even honestly tank one warrior, I'm not sure what the point of the class is. Mesmers, Guards, Holos, Rangers, Eles, and really even Necros are better at tanking than scrapper... so its kind of pointless to push it towards tanking when it wasn't a good enough rework to make it viable.

I personally run a demolisher, damage-focused, offensive scrap and I do okay, but it requires an insane amount of work to be effective. No one plays scrapper, and yet, it keeps getting nerfed. It was out of play before these updates, and it is essentially out of play now... and it was so much better before the updates... I miss the clears I had on elixirs, I miss the old adaptive armor, and I miss the 10s cd on protection injection (this wasn't even a nerf to holo, because they already have tons more prot than scrap). There might be a few straggler noobs trying scrap, but none are effective and all are useless. They need to stop nerfing a dead class to get to holo, and start buffing the scrap line to make up for the problems they are causing. They are trying to push it as a tank class, but it's not. It cant face tank damage.

Here are my few requests for scrapper that I think could help bring it up to speed:

1. (This is rather large) Rework gyros; they are useless until further notice (function gyro doesn't count).
2. Offer some form of condition removal in the scrapper specifically. Currently, unless traited up through inventions, there are relatively few options to deal with condi (I mostly anticipate condi-spikes and avoid them with toolkit 4/hammer 4/ Elixer S). It doesn't have to be a lot; maybe add a slight removal of like 2 condis to hammer 3, or shock shield.
3. Maybe a slightly larger range on Electro-Whirl. That could help with the lack of mobility.

Of course, I would like actual buffs to the class beyond these little things (slightly more damage... a little more range to hammer 3... CD reduction... etc) but I realize that such things might make the class viable.

The class is currently in a very bad place... please just do something. AND other people who will comment to say its fine and "OP"... honestly... how many "OP" and "Fine" or even "Balanced" classes have been out of play for ages? Even when a casual noob loads one up, it's a complete joke, and you all know it. Also, don't tell me about how OP it was at launch of HoT... you do realize how many metas ago that was?

Anyway... I love scrap... make it something I can continue to use please.

A L I E N

[Chaith.8256]

I have two Scrappers.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoCFpidpCubBEqil7jieVb1aVEhTUAsJA-jJxHABiv/gyPAAAuAA0XGAA( Alchemy mid-mid-mid )

This is a very, very tenacious survivor, revive utility, and condition remover of allies. Seems like the strongest build Scrapper has to offer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlUUhqrY9VwALQ7FLDGl47UChA9nn5h+XAsetHA-jJROABnfBAAY/hifAAwUGAA

This one is a teamfighting powerhouse that hard counters low ranked players whose whole team humps the mid point, mortar is the cornerstone here with the occasional 10k Electro-Whirl in self-defense.