Shouts

[michelada.2947]

Shouts became kinda useless after the addition of firebrand into the game , the cooldowns of the skills seems to high for what those skills do.

[brannigan.9831]

100% correct no reason to run them at all.

[otto.5684]

Stand your ground is good. Everything else is not.

Feel my wrath needs the PvP changes copied to PvE.

Retreat needs major CD reduction. 30 sec CD for one aegis and 24 sec swiftness is close to obsolete.

Save yourselves, extremely long CD, tries to do too much, yet fails in almost every respect.

Hold the line is useless. It is a relic from the past when protection meant something.

Receive the light is surely the biggest offender. Weak heal and long cast. It is almost impossible to use in any shape or form in PvP. It has no use anywhere else.

And this more of a game wide issue, but with boon removal/corruption becoming extremely prevelant, having a utility skill that only provides two boons (regardless of what they are) with 30 sec CD is no go in PvP.

Though guardian is full of utilities that are seriously outdated.

Concentrations.Spirit weapons.Some of the signets, particularly the active part.

Basically, anything outside mediation, traps and mantras is currently of limited to no use.

[LetoII.3782]

Power creeped to death

[michelada.2947]

I just hope that someday anet stop creating new content for a short period of time and focus their entire atention to fix the game, specially the classes in general, all the classes have outdated stuff that need's to be balanced or reworked.

[Felipe.1807]

Yeah, shouts are completely outdated, the only usefull is Stand your Ground, and thats on WvW cause the stab...but the same could be said about every other utility from core Guard with the exception of Meditations.

[Assic.2746]

Do you remember the time when cleansing condies with shouts was meta. It's sad to see how power creep devalued it. There are multiple skills which cleanse conditions better than shouts and even more skills which apply multiple conditions, removing 1 isn't even enough.

[Phoenix the One.4071]

Shame was very interesting playstyle.. and have no solution without overpowering stuff..Well maybe decrease firebrands ammunition.. feel like three charges are a lot, ofc balance the skill a bit after it..And maybe increase shouts range and make them like reapers shout, having a boon but also a condition? Narh it would pigeonhole the situation.And lowering the CD could make the immens powerfull with the shout synergy.I would hate to see charges, as this should not be the solution.But could increase the number to 10, but that would only so slightly help in wvw and maybe raids, and be useless anywhre else.

Maybe shouts aren’t the problem, but mantras.. and how to balance that, and still make the firebrand interesting? Reduce the boons they grant?Decrease the radius to be very melee and cluster focus, and increase shout to 900 maybe even 1200 to make them the range version?Also played with the idea of traps being deployable (both ranger and dh) for range.. if not 1200-1500, then 600 or 900. Would taht counter Scourge meta, and would it in the end be too OP..

Well in the end, I am happy tha it isn’t me who has to balance this mess xD

[otto.5684]

Even if FB is deleted tomorrow, that will not make shouts viable. Shouts were not a functional thing even before HoT release.

[cat.8975]

Most of them are still rather useful (at least in PvE), but I wouldn't hate seeing the cooldowns reduced. (Or maybe the ammo system. :wink: )

[michelada.2947]

mmmmm now that you mention it , applying the ammo system to shouts make's perfect sense

[Aeolus.3615]

• Remove boons from shouts, make a directs effect like paragon skills that cant stack with other shouts.
• add shout stances cancelers on next expantion on single target skills
• Reduce Mantras range and make them aoe.

Ammo system on shouts :\ we already have the useless SW with ammo system that Anet avoids to fix them and keep increasing and reverting back their CD....

@otto.5684 SyG is good but kinda feels incomplete to the current aoe power creep gameplay.

[Rhyse.8179]

Increase their radius to 1000 and max targets to 10 so they can reliably affect the entire party, to differentiate them from mantras. Then buff them, cause they are still very weak.

[cat.8975]

@Aeolus.3615 said:we already have the useless SW with ammo system that Anet avoids to fix them and keep increasing and reverting back their CD....

The only bad spirit weapon at the moment is the shield. The bow, sword, and hammer are all great skills. They could use a little bit of tweaking for usability in PvP scenarios, but for PvE they're perfectly fine.

[nativity.3057]

@cat.8975 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:we already have the useless SW with ammo system that Anet avoids to fix them and keep increasing and reverting back their CD....

The only bad spirit weapon at the moment is the shield. The bow, sword, and hammer are all great skills. They could use a little bit of tweaking for usability in PvP scenarios, but for PvE they're perfectly fine.

Is Bow good? I haven't been in many scenarios where I would need it. Sword and Hammer are great tho. I like swapping to it if the party is lacking vuln uptime or needs more CC (shattered observatory fractal). Most of the time though I'll just run Stand Your Ground for the stunbreak and stability for party members.

Also, while the other Shouts are pretty useless in PvP, I like to use Save Yourself in WvW. Solo only, of course, because I don't want to take conditions from nearby players. The boons it gives are super nice especially if you run some concentration (increased retal uptime = increased might stacks). My only gripe is the 50 second cooldown.

[Aeolus.3615]

@nativity.3057 said:

@cat.8975 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:we already have the useless SW with ammo system that Anet avoids to fix them and keep increasing and reverting back their CD....

The only bad spirit weapon at the moment is the shield. The bow, sword, and hammer are all great skills. They could use a little bit of tweaking for usability in PvP scenarios, but for PvE they're perfectly fine.

Is Bow good? I haven't been in many scenarios where I would need it. Sword and Hammer are great tho. I like swapping to it if the party is lacking vuln uptime or needs more CC (shattered observatory fractal). Most of the time though I'll just run Stand Your Ground for the stunbreak and stability for party members.

Also, while the other Shouts are pretty useless in PvP, I like to use Save Yourself in WvW. Solo only, of course, because I don't want to take conditions from nearby players. The boons it gives are super nice especially if you run some concentration (increased retal uptime = increased might stacks). My only gripe is the 50 second cooldown.

Well i was playing a DH with arround400-600 healing power, and the heals were pretty good sometimes 700, heal tick X 10-15 times since i dont own PoF, i cant confirm how strong it can be on a ministrel Fb, but it is one thing that i would love for several fb's spike that skill in one place :\For my experience since Anet removed the SW to ammo system i never magaged to hit players with it... lol this is true, they are very useless and easy to kite, dont even need to waste a dodge, and shield... that thing just stops working/casting and keep burning the ammo after some usage.

SyG is kinda mandatory, but for the current gameplay kinda lacking IMO(but Fb's can compensate it well), reason i dropped my shout guard to Rev, i like the combination of SY and Contemplation for more larger scale battles, pull everyones nearby and instantly cleanse, if u have a rev jalis onteam that would make u take half damage from condi pull :), or even better pain absortion.

[brannigan.9831]

I was talking about spvp where they are worthless and they are.

[otto.5684]

@cat.8975 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:we already have the useless SW with ammo system that Anet avoids to fix them and keep increasing and reverting back their CD....

The only bad spirit weapon at the moment is the shield. The bow, sword, and hammer are all great skills. They could use a little bit of tweaking for usability in PvP scenarios, but for PvE they're perfectly fine.

All of them are very weak. It is so bad that the SoJ is out dpsed by ToF. How much worse can it get?! The ammo at 25 secs renders them near obsolete. GL managing to hit anything in PvP.

[Aeolus.3615]

@otto.5684 said:

@cat.8975 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:we already have the useless SW with ammo system that Anet avoids to fix them and keep increasing and reverting back their CD....

The only bad spirit weapon at the moment is the shield. The bow, sword, and hammer are all great skills. They could use a little bit of tweaking for usability in PvP scenarios, but for PvE they're perfectly fine.

All of them are very weak. It is so bad that the SoJ is out dpsed by ToF. How much worse can it get?! The ammo at 25 secs renders them near obsolete. GL

managing to hit anything in PvP.

Exactly that lol, even shield SW is useless now, but BoT can be used to spike a healig burst from several ministrel fb's, but that's WvW gameplay.

The momment SW caster is pressing the SW skill, he is already spamming the healing skill!! LOL

The offensive SW wont hit players with passive speed as well.

[cat.8975]

@otto.5684 said:All of them are very weak. It is so bad that the SoJ is out dpsed by ToF. How much worse can it get?! The ammo at 25 secs renders them near obsolete. GL managing to hit anything in PvP.

As far as PvE goes, SoJ is favored over ToF. I will agree that they're not ideal for PvP due to how slow they are. Could probably be remedied with an even faster cast time, or making the sword swing faster. Hammer needs to be much faster too. In its current state, it's only useful for chaining hard CC.