Gathering Tool Update: what they didn't tell you

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

For those still interested, I can also confirm you can get tier six leather with this glyph. Got quite a few last night. :)

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Kovu.7560 said:

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

Glyph of Bounty

This one seems straightforward, giving a 33% chance per strike of getting another strike on the node, but it has much more nuance than that. First and foremost, this additional strike itself gets the same chance of generating yet another strike.

Theoretically, this can chain endlessly

, but statistically speaking, you won't get too many more.

Surely the bolded can't be true. There are other means of generating extra strikes (such as the Item Booster), and I've read that people can get those odds as high as 99%. (According to the fine folk over on reddit those bonuses are additive). If the bolded were true people would be able to generate infinite loot. That would have been exploited and nerfed by now.

~ Kovu

Turns out, guild tavern boost and banners don't add any chance at all of an extra strike, just enhance the possibility of getting more than one of a material in a single strike.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36654/research-gathering-effects-of-guild-tavern-and-guild-banner-buffs#latest

Boosters are still up in the air, but my own observations suggest that there very well could be a cap on extra strikes per node, though diminishing returns are unlikely.

I need a bigger sample size to be certain. I'll be throwing on boosters tonight to find out for sure.

[Hashberry.4510]

Put bounty on a plant tool today, surprised at how often it gave 3 to 4 procs on one plant.

[artemis.6781]

Just throwing this out there, but I get a lot of T5 & T6 leathers. I think yesterday I had a total of 15 T6 leathers in maybe an hour of running around gathering stuff for fun and trying out different nodes. I use MF buffs from the guild hall, food, and banners.

And it very well could have been that the RNG gods were looking down on me yesterday. I haven't been on today to try some more gathering experiments.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Seriously . . . sticky this thread.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

I did some testing with Glyph of Bounty and a Gathering Booster, and the results were not entirely what I expected.

These tests were done with the Bounty glyph and the Gathering Booster ONLY. No banner, no guild enhancement, no Heroic or Item booster. Tools used were with the Chop-it-all Logging Axe and Consortium Harvesting Sickle to avoid unusual hits/animation.

The first one, I harvested 70 cypress/palm saplings (T5) and 7 Orrian saplings (T6)

T5:1 extra hit: 70 saplings (100%)2 extra hits: 15 saplings (21.4%)3 extra hits: 4 saplings (5.7%)4 extra hits: 0 saplings (0%)

T6:1 extra hit: 1 (14.3%)2 extra hits: 0 (0%)

These are inclusive numbers, so all of the 3 extra hits are included in the 2 extra hits.

The first thing that struck me was the massive disparity between the T5 and T6 on generating any extra hits at all. My best guess is that the Booster does not work at all on T6, since I know from experience that the glyph does.

The second thing that struck me was the sheer regularity that the combination generated an extra strike on the T5. This seems to confirm that the chance is checked on every strike, as failing to do so on saplings would be only a 3.9% chance if the two stack additively and a 9% chance if they stack multiplicitvely. Given my small sample size, this seems reasonable.

However, for any extra strikes beyond the first, it looks like only one of the two modifiers applies. My hypothesis here is that once one of the modifiers triggers (glyph or booster), the other "turns off" for that node.

This was not the only test I did, however. I also tested on plants. This entire test was done in Sandswept Isles and had a variety of plants involved, a total of 30 plants.

1 extra hit: 29 plants (96.7%)2 extra hits: 8 plants (26.7%)3 extra hits: 2 plants (6.7%)4 extra hits: 0 plants (0%)

This I found unusual. Even assuming the item booster and glyph stack additively, I was well above average on first hits (average then would be 20, not 29). I acknowledge 30 plants is a small sample size, but this is well above expectations.

Again, extra hits beyond the first suggest that one of the two modifiers "turns off" once the other procs.

These tests, plus a number of unrecorded observations, suggests that there is a hard cap of 3 extra harvests and no more.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180

These tests, plus a number of unrecorded observations, suggests that there is a hard cap of 3 extra harvests and no more.

Extremely helpful again. This absolutely appears to be the case. A max of four total is all I've ever seen. So yes, it does appear the case with all nodes. Easiest to see with plants, but still noticeable with other nodes if one pays attention. While I would love there to be no hard cap, I absolutely understand why there is one. And rightfully so.

Again, extremely helpful post and thank you for sharing.

[Omnicron.2467]

Quick question, so the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast gathers three hits at the end of the animation, but without any extra strike buffs you only gather once from plants. So this functionality of the skin only applies when using the extra gathering strike buff right?

[Ensign.2189]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180

These tests, plus a number of unrecorded observations, suggests that there is a hard cap of 3 extra harvests and no more.

Extremely helpful again. This absolutely appears to be the case. A max of four total is all I've ever seen. So yes, it does appear the case with all nodes. Easiest to see with plants, but still noticeable with other nodes if one pays attention. While I would love there to be no hard cap, I absolutely understand why there is one. And rightfully so.

Again, extremely helpful post and thank you for sharing.

Note also that rich nodes never give extra hits - you get 10 total strikes regardless of booster.

Adding all these factors up, you get just under half an additional strike from bounty on a plant node (.475), while a normal wood/ore node grants just over 1 additional strike per regular node (and nothing on a rich ore node).

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Omnicron.2467 said:Quick question, so the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast gathers three hits at the end of the animation, but without any extra strike buffs you only gather once from plants. So this functionality of the skin only applies when using the extra gathering strike buff right?

No, it works the same regardless. The unbound gathering tool doesn't give extra hits, but does give all the gathered items in one hit or animation. This does include the bonus from Glyph of the Bounty.

For example, if I harvest a plant node with a sickle, and got four hits, I would have to hit 'F' four times. But with an Unbound skin, I would get the four hits, yet only have to hit 'F' once.

Hope this answered your question. ☺

[MachineManXX.9746]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@Omnicron.2467 said:Quick question, so the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast gathers three hits at the end of the animation, but without any extra strike buffs you only gather once from plants. So this functionality of the skin only applies when using the extra gathering strike buff right?

No, it works the same regardless. The unbound gathering tool doesn't give extra hits, but does give all the gathered items in one hit or animation. This does include the bonus from Glyph of the Bounty.

For example, if I harvest a plant node with a sickle, and got four hits, I would have to hit 'F' four times. But with an Unbound skin, I would get the four hits, yet only have to hit 'F' once.

Hope this answered your question. ☺

So then it seems that the unbound sickle is still better to use than the Consortium?

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@MachineManXX.9746 said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@Omnicron.2467 said:Quick question, so the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast gathers three hits at the end of the animation, but without any extra strike buffs you only gather once from plants. So this functionality of the skin only applies when using the extra gathering strike buff right?

No, it works the same regardless. The unbound gathering tool doesn't give extra hits, but does give all the gathered items in one hit or animation. This does include the bonus from Glyph of the Bounty.

For example, if I harvest a plant node with a sickle, and got four hits, I would have to hit 'F' four times. But with an Unbound skin, I would get the four hits, yet only have to hit 'F' once.

Hope this answered your question. ☺

So then it seems that the unbound sickle is still better to use than the Consortium?

If there's a high likelyhood of extra hits, yes. Low likelyhood then the Consortium is faster.

[zealex.9410]

Wasnt the diff in gathering speed between the diff tools known for a while now?

On everything else, good shit m8

[Omnicron.2467]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@"Omnicron.2467" said:Quick question, so the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast gathers three hits at the end of the animation, but without any extra strike buffs you only gather once from plants. So this functionality of the skin only applies when using the extra gathering strike buff right?

No, it works the same regardless. The unbound gathering tool doesn't give extra hits, but does give all the gathered items in one hit or animation. This does include the bonus from Glyph of the Bounty.

For example, if I harvest a plant node with a sickle, and got four hits, I would have to hit 'F' four times. But with an Unbound skin, I would get the four hits, yet only have to hit 'F' once.

Hope this answered your question. ☺

yes, thank you :) So the extra hits are "wasted" without a buff since you get one anyway :)

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

I recently bought Glyph of the Bounty for all my tools. I've found, so far, that four total is the cap for plants. But for wood and minerals, six is the total cap I've gotten as far as hits. This does not include rich nodes. This is incredibly helpful for mining nodes if you need the 'currency' they also drop.

For example, the crystals in the Sandswept Isle will always drop Volatile Magic, Empyreal Crystals, and often extra Difluorite Crystals. As of my experience, that's three extra hits of this material if you're lucky. I've heard rumor of some getting seven hits, but I cannot confirm. Please note, I used no boosters at the time of this testing.

Will continue to research and test this.

[Sarrs.4831]

Good writeup, but a few things need amending.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Rich veins have a whopping 97.2% chance of one extra strike, but, again, 33% for any after that.

Rich veins can never give a bonus strike.

It also does not work on synthesizers, like those found in WvW and in Guild halls.

It does work on WvW synthesizers. This includes the leather and cloth nodes.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:These tests, plus a number of unrecorded observations, suggests that there is a hard cap of 3 extra harvests and no more.

I've flax farmed for what feels like over a year and I've used Item Boosters. You will never get more than 3 bonus strikes on a node - barring some exceptions in the opposite direction; Orrian Pearls will never give bonus strikes. The last node in a group of nodes, including the various Flax farms, will never give bonus strikes - and will deactivate any bonus strikes you have left on other nodes.

Now that I've started using Glyph of Bounty as well I've also seen similar results to your test; harvesting on 59 characters daily since the release of the Glyph of Bounty, my anecdotal experience is that the first strike has an insanely high rate of enabling a second strike. My overall yields, though, imply that the +66% chance (or its 'real' +138% yield) is correct.

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:But with an Unbound skin, I would get the four hits, yet only have to hit 'F' once.

The Unbound Harvesting Tool only hits three times. If you get three procs, and thus four harvests, you'll need to press it a second time.If you feel especially like minmaxing, you can switch to another sickle with a different glyph for the last strike, as the fourth harvest can never give you a bonus swing.

[evilsofa.7296]

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

Glyph of BountyThis one seems straightforward, giving a 33% chance per strike of getting another strike on the node, but it has much more nuance than that. First and foremost, this additional strike itself gets the same chance of generating yet another strike. Theoretically, this can chain endlessly, but statistically speaking, you won't get too many more. Secondly, The unbound skins mentioned above will immedietly harvest this additional strike, with the sickle even immedietly harvesting a second extra strike. Third, because my testing suggests that the chance is calculated on each strike, this means your typical saplings and ore nodes have ~70% chance to get at least one additional strike. That said, I have a small sample size, so more testing is needed to confirm this.

It also appears that a node can only have one "extra strike" at a time. Once an extra strike has been generated, no more will be on that node until all "extras" are consumed. In other words, if the first strike on a sapling or ore node generates an extra, then the second and third will not do so. Once you harvest this "extra," you once again have a 33% chance of generating yet another. What this works out to on these nodes is a 70% chance of one extra strike, but only a 33% chance after that for additional strikes. Rich veins have a whopping 97.2% chance of one extra strike, but, again, 33% for any after that.

However, it should be noted that this glyph does have some limitations on the nodes it works on. It does not function inside home instances with exception of the Black Lion Garden Plot, where it does. It also does not work on synthesizers, like those found in WvW and in Guild halls.

Plant nodes are capped at 4 strikes total. Non-rich ore nodes and lumber nodes are capped at 6 strikes total. Rich ore nodes are capped at 10 strikes total, so the Glyph of Bounty or Item Booster will never have an effect on them. Those doing the rich ore mining route will want to use any glyph other than Bounty; one person reported being able to do the rich ore route in 15 minutes per character instead of 30 minutes per character with the Glyph of Industry but I cannot personally verify that.

My experience with extra strikes on non-rich ore nodes and lumber notes is not at all what you describe. When mining non-rich ore nodes and lumber nodes, if more than one extra strike is generated in the first three strikes, they will all be available on the second activation of the node. For example, if the first three strikes on an ore node generates two extra strikes, when I mine the node for the second time, there are two strikes available and the activation mines both of them. I do not recall having to do a third activation on a non-rich ore node or lumber node yet, even though that should be possible. If it makes any difference, I am not using Item Booster with the Glyph of Bounty, and the permanent tools I am using are the Shifting Sands Mining Pick and the Lucky Dog Harvesting Tool.

From the four flax farms, there are a total of 34 nodes (8 in Verdant Brink, 8 in Tangled Depths, 8 in Bloodstone Fen, 10 in Draconis Mons). With 9 characters, this normally got me a total of 306 nodes giving 306 strikes per day. The Glyph of Bounty increased this to 510 strikes per day. This is exactly 66.6667% more strikes per node, which is probably not a coincidence.

Rules can be quite different on LW3 nodes. Petrified Stumps are capped at 16 nodes plus 2 strikes on the 17th node per day per account, even when using the Glyph of Bounty. Without the Glyph of Bounty, that would add up to 50 strikes; the Glyph of Bounty allows you to have more strikes but still only ever gets 2 strikes on the 17th node. Most of the other LW3 nodes are capped at a certain number of nodes per day per account but not strikes, so using the Glyph of Bounty on them is very effective and desirable for making ascended trinkets faster.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Excellent addition. My experiences so far are the same. Four max for plants. Six max for trees and ores. I also noticed that the max I have gotten from Ancient Wood, Orrian Wood, and Ori ore is one extra. And only one. I'm guessing they're either capped that way or the extra drop rate is extremely low.

Either way, Glyph of Bounty is easily my favorite glyph now. :)

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@evilsofa.7296 said:

My experience with extra strikes on non-rich ore nodes and lumber notes is not at all what you describe. When mining non-rich ore nodes and lumber nodes, if more than one extra strike is generated in the first three strikes, they will all be available on the second activation of the node. For example, if the first three strikes on an ore node generates two extra strikes, when I mine the node for the second time, there are two strikes available and the activation mines both of them. I do not recall having to do a third activation on a non-rich ore node or lumber node yet, even though that should be possible. If it makes any difference, I am not using Item Booster with the Glyph of Bounty, and the permanent tools I am using are the Shifting Sands Mining Pick and the Lucky Dog Harvesting Tool.

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. Nodes can only have 1 extra strike at a time, but harvesting an extra strike and generating a new one does not break the harvesting animation.

If it behaved as you described, then we would see 2 extra strikes far more often on ore and wood nodes. As it is, there's a significant drop-off in frequency from 1 extra strike to 2 extra strikes, but not from 2 extra to 3 extra.

As for rich nodes, I've edited the OP to take that into account.

@Sarrs.4831 said:

It also does not work on synthesizers, like those found in WvW and in Guild halls.

It does work on WvW synthesizers. This includes the leather and cloth nodes.

I haven't gotten it to work on WvW synthesizers, but I admit I don't spend a lot of time harvesting there.

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:These tests, plus a number of unrecorded observations, suggests that there is a hard cap of 3 extra harvests and no more.

I've flax farmed for what feels like over a year and I've used Item Boosters. You will never get more than 3 bonus strikes on a node - barring some exceptions in the opposite direction; Orrian Pearls will never give bonus strikes. The last node in a group of nodes, including the various Flax farms, will never give bonus strikes - and will deactivate any bonus strikes you have left on other nodes.I've gotten extra harvests on Orrian Pearls, so I wouldn't say "never." You never will off the home instance one, though. I'll look into the flax farms, because what you're saying there doesn't make much sense. Not saying you're wrong, just saying it doesn't make sense for it to behave that way.

[Ashantara.8731]

Yes, some Gathering Tools are faster than others by skin, which is why I picked the fastest skins. For example, gathering with the Thresher-Sickle 5000 can be interrupted the second you see the XP popping up, because that is when the gahering materials enter your inventory; that makes it an extremely fast-to-use tool (compared to the Dog, for instance).

[evilsofa.7296]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:@"Sarrs.4831" said:

I've flax farmed for what feels like over a year and I've used Item Boosters. You will never get more than 3 bonus strikes on a node - barring some exceptions in the opposite direction; Orrian Pearls will never give bonus strikes. The last node in a group of nodes, including the various Flax farms, will never give bonus strikes - and will deactivate any bonus strikes you have left on other nodes.I've gotten extra harvests on Orrian Pearls, so I wouldn't say "never." You never will off the home instance one, though. I'll look into the flax farms, because what you're saying there doesn't make much sense. Not saying you're wrong, just saying it doesn't make sense for it to behave that way.

What I do know is that if you leave an extra strike on any node, and move on and harvest another node, you will lose the extra strikes on that previous node. So you always want to finish out the extra strikes on the node you are working on before harvesting something else.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

On a side note, I've noticed that the 'currency' nodes operate under the same rules as their base node. For example, Wildberry bushes could give a maximum of three extra hits, for a total of four, like other plant nodes. And nodes like Petrified wood, while rare, could give three more hits for a total of six, like other tree nodes.

Still, no luck getting more than one hit off tier six nodes though that weren't rich so far.

I'll test Orrian pearls and the flax farm later today to confirm.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

The flax farms in Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink, like all other farms I've encountered, would give me four hits total if I was lucky. No surprise there.

Now, Orrian Pearls . . . that was a surprise. As far as I know, I farmed every, single pearl in the zone . . . and not one gave me an extra hit. In two cases, I got an extra pearl for a total of two from those nodes in one hit, but I believe that's normal regardless. So yes, Glyph of Bounty will not help with Orrian Pearls. Just to be sure, I'll file a bug report.

I suspect this has to do with certain quests in the zone, but I'm hoping this is a bug instead. Yet, given how every other node in the zone gave me the usual amount of extra hits, I suspect it's not a bug and intended due to those above-mentioned quests.

Just to be sure, I'll file a bug report.

[evilsofa.7296]

Orrian Pearls do not give extra strikes.

I just harvested 84 Orrian Pearl nodes. On one character, instead of 21 Orrian Pearls, it had collected 22, but there had been no extra strikes and there were 21 Oysters harvested. I did not get that extra pearl from a daily bonus chest. Perhaps it is possible to rarely get two Orrian Pearls in one harvest (I did not notice it when it happened), but however I got it, it was not from an extra strike.

[evilsofa.7296]

WARNING WARNING WARNING

This weekend, we now have a Bonus Weekend Event boon on all characters, which includes "33% chance of earning extra resources when gathering."

Take this into consideration when collecting data on gathering.

Edit:"The gathering portion of this Bonus Weekend Event specifically provides players with a 33% chance to gain an extra strike while gathering, much in the same way that items like the Item/Heroic Boosters and the Glyph of Bounty work. (Side note: those special gathering effects will stack with the event bonuses this weekend, so gathering could be very rewarding!) To put the bonus another way, you will not have a 33% chance of earning more materials on each individual gathering strike, but instead may get a "bonus strike" at any node. The net result is the same: more loot!"

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/37064/bonus-weekend-event-gathering-tool-information#latest