STRAIGHT projectiles vs. ARCING

[lordhelmos.7623]

This an age old and classic problem with all projectiles.

There are generally 2 types of projectiles in the game: STRAIGHT (bullet physics) and ARCING (arrow physics).

STRAIGHT projectiles will always go their intended range then stop. ARCING projectiles will fly their intended range than arc into the floor.

Due to the way arcing projectiles work, it is possible for classes with ARCING projectiles to hit much farther than the intended range of their weapon by standing on elevated ground. This physics advantage is not shared by STRAIGHT projectiles -which always stop regardless of elevation.

The most abuse seen with ARCING projectiles is from the ranger longbow, which can hit over 2000+ meters with proper elevation. Even slight terrain hops can allow the longbow to hit over 1700m, granting a huge range advantage to the attacker.

Because of broken physics arcing projectiles like the ranger longbow will always be superior weapons when compared to guns. This allows the longbow to completely outclass every ranged weapon in the game with the exception of two, which is the deadeye rifle due to its one-shot capability and the mesmer greatsword due to its ability to hit instantly and bypass reflects.

Due to this, I recommend upgrading all rifle and pistol based weapons to have an increased projectile velocity by default to be competitive with bows. This makes sense from a physics view because bullets should be faster than arrows.

[Math.5123]

@lordhelmos.7623 said:This an age old and classic problem with all projectiles.

There are generally 2 types of projectiles in the game: STRAIGHT (bullet physics) and ARCING (arrow physics).

STRAIGHT projectiles will always go their intended range then stop. ARCING projectiles will fly their intended range than arc into the floor.

Due to the way arcing projectiles work, it is possible for classes with ARCING projectiles to hit much farther than the intended range of their weapon by standing on elevated ground. This physics advantage is not shared by STRAIGHT projectiles -which always stop regardless of elevation.

The most abuse seen with ARCING projectiles is from the ranger longbow, which can hit over 2000+ meters with proper elevation. Even slight terrain hops can allow the longbow to hit over 1700m, granting a huge range advantage to the attacker.

Because of broken physics arcing projectiles like the ranger longbow will always be superior weapons when compared to guns. This allows the longbow to completely outclass every ranged weapon in the game with the exception of two, which is the deadeye rifle due to its one-shot capability and the mesmer greatsword due to its ability to hit instantly and bypass reflects.

Due to this, I recommend upgrading all rifle and pistol based weapons to have an increased projectile velocity by default to be competitive with bows. This makes sense from a physics view because bullets should be faster than arrows.

Straight projectiles can't be side-stepped.

[saerni.2584]

And yet they can.*

At least several of them can. Body Shot comes to mind.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@lordhelmos.7623 said:This an age old and classic problem with all projectiles.

There are generally 2 types of projectiles in the game: STRAIGHT (bullet physics) and ARCING (arrow physics).

STRAIGHT projectiles will always go their intended range then stop. ARCING projectiles will fly their intended range than arc into the floor.

Due to the way arcing projectiles work, it is possible for classes with ARCING projectiles to hit much farther than the intended range of their weapon by standing on elevated ground. This physics advantage is not shared by STRAIGHT projectiles -which always stop regardless of elevation.

The most abuse seen with ARCING projectiles is from the ranger longbow, which can hit over 2000+ meters with proper elevation. Even slight terrain hops can allow the longbow to hit over 1700m, granting a huge range advantage to the attacker.

Because of broken physics arcing projectiles like the ranger longbow will always be superior weapons when compared to guns. This allows the longbow to completely outclass every ranged weapon in the game with the exception of two, which is the deadeye rifle due to its one-shot capability and the mesmer greatsword due to its ability to hit instantly and bypass reflects.

Due to this, I recommend upgrading all rifle and pistol based weapons to have an increased projectile velocity by default to be competitive with bows. This makes sense from a physics view because bullets should be faster than arrows.

A few flaws the “Arcing” Projectiles can hit for well over their “Range” regardless of Elevation, Elevation doesn’t play any factor into this it’s the same distance regardless of elevation, @AikijinX.6258 and I made a Video show casing this it’s in the Thief Subforum and as of yet there hasn’t been a statement issued by Anet clarifying if it’s intended or not, but there was a statement saying all skills ranged and Melee are supposed to have an Internet 15% Range buffer.

I just want to know if it’s intended and if it is why have incorrect Range indicators on the skills since as it sits currently 1200 Range Bows shoot over 1500 Range and 1500 Range shoot well over 1700 Range.

[Arcaedus.7290]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@lordhelmos.7623 said:This an age old and classic problem with all projectiles.

There are generally 2 types of projectiles in the game:

STRAIGHT

(bullet physics) and

ARCING

(arrow physics).

STRAIGHT projectiles will always go their intended range then stop. ARCING projectiles will fly their intended range than arc into the floor.

Due to the way arcing projectiles work, it is possible for classes with ARCING projectiles to hit much farther than the intended range of their weapon by standing on elevated ground. This physics advantage is not shared by STRAIGHT projectiles -which always stop regardless of elevation.

The most abuse seen with ARCING projectiles is from the ranger longbow, which can hit over 2000+ meters with proper elevation. Even slight terrain hops can allow the longbow to hit over 1700m, granting a huge range advantage to the attacker.

Because of broken physics arcing projectiles like the ranger longbow will always be superior weapons when compared to guns. This allows the longbow to completely outclass every ranged weapon in the game with the exception of two, which is the deadeye rifle due to its one-shot capability and the mesmer greatsword due to its ability to hit instantly and bypass reflects.

Due to this, I recommend upgrading all rifle and pistol based weapons to have an increased projectile velocity by default to be competitive with bows. This makes sense from a physics view because bullets should be faster than arrows.

Straight projectiles can't be side-stepped.

Ranger longbow is less side step-able than any of the bullet-based projectiles.

[Turk.5460]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@lordhelmos.7623 said:This an age old and classic problem with all projectiles.

There are generally 2 types of projectiles in the game:

STRAIGHT

(bullet physics) and

ARCING

(arrow physics).

STRAIGHT projectiles will always go their intended range then stop. ARCING projectiles will fly their intended range than arc into the floor.

Due to the way arcing projectiles work, it is possible for classes with ARCING projectiles to hit much farther than the intended range of their weapon by standing on elevated ground. This physics advantage is not shared by STRAIGHT projectiles -which always stop regardless of elevation.

The most abuse seen with ARCING projectiles is from the ranger longbow, which can hit over 2000+ meters with proper elevation. Even slight terrain hops can allow the longbow to hit over 1700m, granting a huge range advantage to the attacker.

Because of broken physics arcing projectiles like the ranger longbow will always be superior weapons when compared to guns. This allows the longbow to completely outclass every ranged weapon in the game with the exception of two, which is the deadeye rifle due to its one-shot capability and the mesmer greatsword due to its ability to hit instantly and bypass reflects.

Due to this, I recommend upgrading all rifle and pistol based weapons to have an increased projectile velocity by default to be competitive with bows. This makes sense from a physics view because bullets should be faster than arrows.

Straight projectiles can't be side-stepped.

They absolutely can. Ranger Longbow velocity is higher than War/Eng/DE rifle velocity. The only projectile that can compare is when a DE is kneeling.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Why is it a problem that different skills have different benefits? The OP focuses on the fact that arcing projectiles can extend the range by 10-50%. If that's intended and considered in balancing professions in competitive modes, then I'm okay with it. If the extended range wasn't intended, what are the actual issues with allowing some profs to have that long of a range? (After all some classes can't reliably get 1200 range in the first place.)

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:Why is it a problem that different skills have different benefits? The OP focuses on the fact that arcing projectiles can extend the range by 10-50%. If that's intended and considered in balancing professions in competitive modes, then I'm okay with it. If the extended range wasn't intended, what are the actual issues with allowing some profs to have that long of a range? (After all some classes can't reliably get 1200 range in the first place.)

Why have a Range Stated that doesn’t actually reflect the range of the weapon? Why have a PvP/Balance Dev state that all Melee and Ranged skills have an intended Range Buffer when clearly a large portion don’t have it? Based on previous Dev statements all ranged an Melee skills are to have a Range Buffer but they don’t, so who can say that the lack the extended range on those skills is intended? There’s an issue when 1200 Range is hitting further than 1500 Range.

[coro.3176]

The main problem is that the class that has close to 2000 range has some seriously powerful ranged burst. That's more or less okay in PvP where you can't abuse it. It's less fine in WvW where you can stack lots of stats + modifiers, then pew pew from almost twice other classes' engagement range while autoattacking for 7k and quickness-unblockable-onewolfpack-rapidfire-ing for 40k.

Now, if you're a melee or mid-ranged class, that's a LOT of ground to cover before you can even start interacting with the opponent - especially if they can kill you in 1-2 skills. You need to blow all your defenses or have stealth just to get close enough to engage.

basically this, from 2000 range is pretty ridiculous

[ZDragon.3046]

@saerni.2584 said:And yet they can.*

At least several of them can. Body Shot comes to mind.

Not too many of them can only the slower ones can such as necro staff auto.

Usually in most cases if you are not at the very end of the projectiles range a straight projectile will still hit you even if it does a buggy sudden angle change to do so

Usually anything that shoots faster than the projectile speed of engi rifel will hit you and cant be side stepped which is the majority of most straight projectiles in the game.Body shot is very slow and comparable to the speed of thief short bow auto attack, Engi pistol poison arrow volly. Slow projectiles are bad in general as for how the game tracks.

[Dralor.3701]

Those numbers you are stating are pretty exaggerated.

[ZDragon.3046]

@lordhelmos.7623 said:This an age old and classic problem with all projectiles.

There are generally 2 types of projectiles in the game: STRAIGHT (bullet physics) and ARCING (arrow physics).

STRAIGHT projectiles will always go their intended range then stop. ARCING projectiles will fly their intended range than arc into the floor.

Due to the way arcing projectiles work, it is possible for classes with ARCING projectiles to hit much farther than the intended range of their weapon by standing on elevated ground. This physics advantage is not shared by STRAIGHT projectiles -which always stop regardless of elevation.

The most abuse seen with ARCING projectiles is from the ranger longbow, which can hit over 2000+ meters with proper elevation. Even slight terrain hops can allow the longbow to hit over 1700m, granting a huge range advantage to the attacker.

Because of broken physics arcing projectiles like the ranger longbow will always be superior weapons when compared to guns. This allows the longbow to completely outclass every ranged weapon in the game with the exception of two, which is the deadeye rifle due to its one-shot capability and the mesmer greatsword due to its ability to hit instantly and bypass reflects.

Due to this, I recommend upgrading all rifle and pistol based weapons to have an increased projectile velocity by default to be competitive with bows. This makes sense from a physics view because bullets should be faster than arrows.

Most bullet projectiles are faster than most of the bow projectiles and are fine in the current game.

What i would be asking for is that slow arching projectiles be changed so that they could actually hit moving things beyond half their max range , Scoprion wire, warrior long bow auto, spectral grasp, etc. Things of this nature have a decent and i mean descent like 66% decent chance of just out right missing at their higher range values due to their projectile speed being so slow.The only reason rev shortbow actually hits its autos is because the projectile explodes at its max range which removes the factor side stepping it. (Same thing for ele fire staff auto)

Most of the projectiles in this game are fine as they are but changes to rifles and other bullet projectiles are not needed. Making them any faster would mean that more of your damage is dodged in 1 dodge (specifically on firearm skills that shoot multiple shots) or that many of the skills would be impossible to react to and thats no good either.

[Dralor.3701]

One other thing, the tooltips should be updated imo for the sake of consistency.

That being said these pointless nerf crying posts are really frustrating, blowing things out of proportion just hurts everyone and leads to more lopsided balance.

If you took one of those full glass (both gear/spec choices) you could just as easily insta kill them from stealth in return. High dps ranged needs to be viable as its the only scourge counter.