Flag DPS-Meter user in the game

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:All of the above would have been avoided if dps meter, no matter 3rd party or built in, was opt-in.

It is opt-in. You don't want your dps checked? You don't join the party.

A 3rd party toy from a person unrelated to Anet, not being a part of User Agreement and for whom and which Anet takes no responsibility for, should never be a gate for in-game content I paid for. Combat data is visible and public, okay, but ArcDPS is not part of the game and opt-in option for this tool should be required by default, not the other way around.

[Ashen.2907]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:All of the above would have been avoided if dps meter, no matter 3rd party or built in, was opt-in.

It is opt-in. You don't want your dps checked? You don't join the party.

A 3rd party toy from a person unrelated to Anet, not being a part of User Agreement and for whom and which Anet takes no responsibility for, should never be a gate for in-game content I paid for. Combat data is visible and public, okay, but ArcDPS is not part of the game and opt-in option for this tool should be required by default, not the other way around.

You did not pay to be in someone else's party.

It is completely opt in. You have to choose to put yourself in a situation where a dps meter can read your dps.

[Exatherion.3075]

As Commander I often see how people are trying to use that feature, without thinking about what the numbers actually mean. I personally tell my squads not to use that feature(I play daily at least 3 hours as Commander).

Those numbers have no connection to the reality. When i played Anarchy-Online; you could measure all kind of things with the Damage Dumper. But we knew that DPS wasn't everything. I've a lot people doing things that support the squad, just like sending invites to people in the Open-World etc.

It feels like you're supposed to play your character with high dps. I personally don't support that kind of behaviour where people discard half the game in favor of some more dps. I agree that there are things like raids where it makes sense. But I think that a DPS tool shouldn't be used to force ones own opinion how the game should be played on others. I talked often with less experienced players about that issue. They feel like it's a kinda forced on them. I personally had since release a heal/toughness armor on my Guardian. I survived everything, could rezz and so on. When i started playing raids with a guild years I experienced the same - I couldn't play the way I felt best anymore. PoF with the Firebrand changed that - I could heal, dps and even protect others and buff them. That made the gameplay feel great again. Same goes for the Holosmith - a very balanced combination.

When the game was released we had a very friendly and helpfull community. Nowadays as the game developed rezzing doesn't get you any participation in events - therefore you're sanctioned for not doing damage to the NPCs. I want everyone in my squad to rezz and to be helpfull. DPS isn't everything. Since PoF there's much more DPS in my groups. DPS is in contrast to post HoT no issue anymore. The problem is, that some classes have no real support. Some Professions cannot support the group as well as others. I love the Firebrand, he does everything you MMO-Manifesto promised. He broke the "Holy-Trinity" and is my favorite. Firebrand is perfect for a Commander.

I think that the topic is a bigger issue than the whole DPS-Meter thing. If I heal I get no loot, if I rezz I get no loot, if I do dps I get everything even though I might die - but who cares if it dies/finishes I still get loot. Those little things shape people behaviour. That's what I personally tell myself everytime from the perspective as developer.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:All of the above would have been avoided if dps meter, no matter 3rd party or built in, was opt-in.

It is opt-in. You don't want your dps checked? You don't join the party.

A 3rd party toy from a person unrelated to Anet, not being a part of User Agreement and for whom and which Anet takes no responsibility for, should never be a gate for in-game content I paid for. Combat data is visible and public, okay, but ArcDPS is not part of the game and opt-in option for this tool should be required by default, not the other way around.

You did not pay to be in someone else's party.

It is completely opt in. You have to choose to put yourself in a situation where a dps meter can read your dps.

It is not, because dps meter is not part of the game and me playing content I paid for doesn't mean I by default agree for people to use this tool on me.

[Cynn.1659]

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:Step 1 : Flag players that use DPS meters.Step 2 : ???????Step 3 : Profit

Step 1 : Flag players that use DPS meters.Step 2 : Watch players that wanted this flag get kicked for not using dps meter.Step 3: Watch them come to the forum to cry about it.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:It is not, because dps meter is not part of the game and me playing content I paid for doesn't mean I by default agree for people to use this tool on me.

Kicking you for not having enough AP (something that exists in game) is better then?

[sokeenoppa.5384]

"im Bad at My job as dps and i feel sad when ppl see it."

[flog.3485]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:All of the above would have been avoided if dps meter, no matter 3rd party or built in, was opt-in.

It is opt-in. You don't want your dps checked? You don't join the party.

A 3rd party toy from a person unrelated to Anet, not being a part of User Agreement and for whom and which Anet takes no responsibility for, should never be a gate for in-game content I paid for. Combat data is visible and public, okay, but ArcDPS is not part of the game and opt-in option for this tool should be required by default, not the other way around.

You did not pay to be in someone else's party.

It is completely opt in. You have to choose to put yourself in a situation where a dps meter can read your dps.

It is not, because dps meter is not part of the game and me playing content I paid for doesn't mean I by default agree for people to use this tool on me.

Of course dps meters are part of the game. ANET have given their consent for players to use ArcDPS.

[WeedyZeGreedy.8635]

It doesn't violate your privacy as anet started your dps belongs to the server. This is silly to me, anet should not waste time to make nitpicky features. Advertise your group as no dps check and that's it.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

@Cynn.1659 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:Step 1 : Flag players that use DPS meters.Step 2 : ???????Step 3 : Profit

Step 1 : Flag players that use DPS meters.Step 2 : Watch players that wanted this flag get kicked for not using dps meter.Step 3: Watch them come to the forum to cry about it.

Yeah that is mostly likely how it would go.Kinda same thing like: i wanna raid, but i dont want to learn encounters or build my class right---> cry at the forums that raids are too hard ^^

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:It is not, because dps meter is not part of the game and me playing content I paid for doesn't mean I by default agree for people to use this tool on me.

Kicking you for not having enough AP (something that exists in game) is better then?

Of course it isn't. But I don't want dps meter to be removed, I want it to be opt-in. This way groups will advertise "dps share required" in LFG so everyone knows what to expect and those who dont want to share, would have no reason to complain when kicked.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@flog.3485 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:All of the above would have been avoided if dps meter, no matter 3rd party or built in, was opt-in.

It is opt-in. You don't want your dps checked? You don't join the party.

A 3rd party toy from a person unrelated to Anet, not being a part of User Agreement and for whom and which Anet takes no responsibility for, should never be a gate for in-game content I paid for. Combat data is visible and public, okay, but ArcDPS is not part of the game and opt-in option for this tool should be required by default, not the other way around.

You did not pay to be in someone else's party.

It is completely opt in. You have to choose to put yourself in a situation where a dps meter can read your dps.

It is not, because dps meter is not part of the game and me playing content I paid for doesn't mean I by default agree for people to use this tool on me.

Of course dps meters are part of the game. ANET have given their consent for players to use ArcDPS.

And giving this consent they said they are officially unsupported and that people can use them at their own risk. They are not part of the client or user agreement between anet and its customers.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Of course it isn't. But I don't want dps meter to be removed, I want it to be opt-in. This way groups will advertise "dps share required" in LFG so everyone knows what to expect and those who dont want to share, would have no reason to complain when kicked.

That's already in the game, it's called reading the LFG entries. It's not hard to spot the runs that do not have dps meters. An "exp or fast" run will probably have dps meters while a "casual" run won't.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Combat data is uploaded for during a fight due too first to record that your dmg to target so other sees it too the meter is just doing the math with that data

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Regardless of people's position, their stance is likely to change on it and very soon. A simple tool that's either causing exclusion of other players (in a social game as some of you like to put it), and/or toxic behavior will inevitably cause the tool to be unsupported and thus banned.

Now if people would be civil about and used to track their own stats to better themselves instead of belitting others, maybe, just maybe the DPS meters stand a chance. As of now, don't expect them to be allowed for too much longer.

[nia.4725]

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:Regardless of people's position, their stance is likely to change on it and very soon. A simple tool that's either causing exclusion of other players (in a social game as some of you like to put it), and/or toxic behavior will inevitably cause the tool to be unsupported and thus banned.

Now if people would be civil about and used to track their own stats to better themselves instead of belitting others, maybe, just maybe the DPS meters stand a chance. As of now, don't expect them to be allowed for too much longer.

The thing is that DPS is already in the game, arcDPS only displays it. Players will ALWAYS find something to judge the skill of other players, since they want them to perform at a certain level. When I started playing it was AP (I remember a lot of LFGs with something like "lv 80 berserker +5k AP", now it's DPS for DPS players, for support players can be your boon uptime. Even if you remove arc, this will continue happening. The boss doesn't die in X minutes? You fail X mechanics? Kick. Even without arc.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Of course it isn't. But I don't want dps meter to be removed, I want it to be opt-in. This way groups will advertise "dps share required" in LFG so everyone knows what to expect and those who dont want to share, would have no reason to complain when kicked.

That's already in the game, it's called reading the LFG entries. It's not hard to spot the runs that do not have dps meters. An "exp or fast" run will probably have dps meters while a "casual" run won't.

No, it's not the same. The group I play with rarely uses the meter but posts KP reqs for CMs for example. That is not exclusive and there is no reason to assume anything one way or another.

[flog.3485]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@flog.3485 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:All of the above would have been avoided if dps meter, no matter 3rd party or built in, was opt-in.

It is opt-in. You don't want your dps checked? You don't join the party.

A 3rd party toy from a person unrelated to Anet, not being a part of User Agreement and for whom and which Anet takes no responsibility for, should never be a gate for in-game content I paid for. Combat data is visible and public, okay, but ArcDPS is not part of the game and opt-in option for this tool should be required by default, not the other way around.

You did not pay to be in someone else's party.

It is completely opt in. You have to choose to put yourself in a situation where a dps meter can read your dps.

It is not, because dps meter is not part of the game and me playing content I paid for doesn't mean I by default agree for people to use this tool on me.

Of course dps meters are part of the game. ANET have given their consent for players to use ArcDPS.

And giving this consent they said they are officially unsupported and that people can use them at their own risk. They are not part of the client or user agreement between anet and its customers.

Yes. And so ? They would not allow its use if it was truly damaging the experience of the players downloading it. The risk basically entails the lack of the notice from the designer to update the tool in a way that might not comply with the games’ regulation expressed by Chris Cleary (like BGDM).

All in all to say that irl, for example, Switzerland can interact with some specifics of laws that regulate EU members only, without having Switzerland be a full member of the EU.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@flog.3485 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@flog.3485 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:All of the above would have been avoided if dps meter, no matter 3rd party or built in, was opt-in.

It is opt-in. You don't want your dps checked? You don't join the party.

A 3rd party toy from a person unrelated to Anet, not being a part of User Agreement and for whom and which Anet takes no responsibility for, should never be a gate for in-game content I paid for. Combat data is visible and public, okay, but ArcDPS is not part of the game and opt-in option for this tool should be required by default, not the other way around.

You did not pay to be in someone else's party.

It is completely opt in. You have to choose to put yourself in a situation where a dps meter can read your dps.

It is not, because dps meter is not part of the game and me playing content I paid for doesn't mean I by default agree for people to use this tool on me.

Of course dps meters are part of the game. ANET have given their consent for players to use ArcDPS.

And giving this consent they said they are officially unsupported and that people can use them at their own risk. They are not part of the client or user agreement between anet and its customers.

Yes. And so ?

And so it's not part of the game.

[flog.3485]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@flog.3485 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@flog.3485 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:All of the above would have been avoided if dps meter, no matter 3rd party or built in, was opt-in.

It is opt-in. You don't want your dps checked? You don't join the party.

A 3rd party toy from a person unrelated to Anet, not being a part of User Agreement and for whom and which Anet takes no responsibility for, should never be a gate for in-game content I paid for. Combat data is visible and public, okay, but ArcDPS is not part of the game and opt-in option for this tool should be required by default, not the other way around.

You did not pay to be in someone else's party.

It is completely opt in. You have to choose to put yourself in a situation where a dps meter can read your dps.

It is not, because dps meter is not part of the game and me playing content I paid for doesn't mean I by default agree for people to use this tool on me.

Of course dps meters are part of the game. ANET have given their consent for players to use ArcDPS.

And giving this consent they said they are officially unsupported and that people can use them at their own risk. They are not part of the client or user agreement between anet and its customers.

Yes. And so ?

And so it's not part of the game.

Don’t stop at so. I have written more than that.

[nia.4725]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@flog.3485 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@flog.3485 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:All of the above would have been avoided if dps meter, no matter 3rd party or built in, was opt-in.

It is opt-in. You don't want your dps checked? You don't join the party.

A 3rd party toy from a person unrelated to Anet, not being a part of User Agreement and for whom and which Anet takes no responsibility for, should never be a gate for in-game content I paid for. Combat data is visible and public, okay, but ArcDPS is not part of the game and opt-in option for this tool should be required by default, not the other way around.

You did not pay to be in someone else's party.

It is completely opt in. You have to choose to put yourself in a situation where a dps meter can read your dps.

It is not, because dps meter is not part of the game and me playing content I paid for doesn't mean I by default agree for people to use this tool on me.

Of course dps meters are part of the game. ANET have given their consent for players to use ArcDPS.

And giving this consent they said they are officially unsupported and that people can use them at their own risk. They are not part of the client or user agreement between anet and its customers.

Yes. And so ?

And so it's not part of the game.

Anet does not support officially addons and it's obvious why. They haven't developed any of them. But they are okay with them being used, so there isn't a problem with players using them.

[Dayra.7405]

I wonder why you do not like the flag. It can be seen as a kind of title: I am always optimizing myself and my surroundings!I should help you to fill the party with the right people.

I also helps all others to stay away from performance pressure they don't like.

Why this opposition against this helpful separation of two groups of people that do not fit together?

Is it really that it is your main interest to spy and judge secretly?

[Xantaria.8726]

@"Dayra.7405" said:I wonder why you do not like the flag. It can be seen as a kind of title: I am always optimizing myself and my surroundings!I should help you to fill the party with the right people.

I also helps all others to stay away from performance pressure they don't like.

Why this opposition against this helpful separation of two groups of people that do not fit together?

Because as many already tried to tell you, its first the method how you want to implement it that is wrong, and second your reasoning. As long as this "flag" is not checking the users running programms, its fine, but you would need to do that in order for your "flag".Second your reasoning is that it violates your privacy, which then many tried to tell you that it doesnt. Also instead of dividing the community even further, everyone should work to get them closer. Your suggestion is just doing the opposite.

[nia.4725]

@Dayra.7405 said:I wonder why you do not like the flag. It can be seen as a kind of title: I am always optimizing myself and my surroundings!I should help you to fill the party with the right people.

I also helps all others to stay away from performance pressure they don't like.

Why this opposition against this helpful separation of two groups of people that do not fit together?

We have already told you. It will do more damage to non DPS meter users than to us.

Also, you should consider something you may not know. While a lot of people have arcDPS installed (the files are on the GW2 bin64 folder), arcDPS has an option menu that lets you hide/close the DPS window. That means that having arcDPS installed does not necessarily mean that we're using it. You'd be excluding people unfairly. I don't care if people know that I use arc (I have nothing to hide and the majority of content I play is full of players who use arcDPS), but would be fair to exclude me from a, idk, Tarir meta squad just because I have arcDPS installed? Even if I have it completely hidden because, honestly, I don't care about DPS in open world but it's too time consuming to remove arc from my computer files every time I'm not going to use it (it requires closing GW2, pasting/deleting the files and opening GW2 again). It just not makes sense, so I just hide the UI.

[Dayra.7405]

If you would reread the opening post you would see my edit it does not involve any process checking anymore.

Currently I do not play any T4 fractals nor raids to avoid stress. I cannot see how it can become worse.