Balance the scourge now, not when next expansion comes

[Zero.3871]

@morrolan.9608 said:

@"SweetPotato.7456" said:If you want to neft scourge, you have to understand why people are "not happy" with the current state of Scourge. You are not unhappy with scourge, You are unhappy because players are zerging.

If Scourge is neft, the scourge single roamers will be rendered unplayable.

If that is the only option then let them be nerfed, other specs aren't great 1v1 why should scourge be different? Let necros run reaper if they want to roam.

reaper in roaming? …. even with FB on your side, if you get Focus of 3 or morenemies in an 3v3 or 4v4 or something like that you are RIP. reaper is okay, but still lacks stability and some Sustain.

[Dralor.3701]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

Classes should all have a chose to counter every other class and its only scorg where this IS falling apart.

There is something wrong with the scorge class and ppl know it who play it and ppl who play vs it. Every one in GW2 knows the truth but are unwilling to deal with it. Stop defning something that is bluntly wrong.

i dont know why you are so salty, but scourge is by far not the greatest Problem of pof. xD i absolutely agree scourge Need nerfs because its

snowball effect

, that is the true Problem with scourge, that it get stronger with greater number , is problematic. ez solution for example would be to reduce target number shades have to 3.

on the other Hand scourge is still a

necromancer

, so it

lacks

massively Sustain (this class has no blocks, invuls or invis), boons (expecially stability), mobility.that are the weakpoints you can use to counter scourge. and EVERY class is faster than scourge, have more blocks, invuls etc. it is not only range that counter low mobility of scourge….

if you are not able to use that weak Points you should

adjust your build

, cause every class even melee classes can counter scourge. its ez to push a scourge even with a warrior and use Shield block when scourge is starting to bomb you. the bomb has a big WARNING before it Comes. so also the "instant" cast problematic People were complaining in the past isnt a Thing anymore.

so your Argument scourge hasnt enough counters is simply wrong, cause

you can stun, outrun, outrange them or simply block/dodge/be invul against all their shades

…

finally there are

many broken classes

in the game:

• Mirage
  : Condi burst, invis/invul uptime while 6 illusions/clones up, Unlimited mobility, unstunnable
• Spellbreaker
  : Full Counter + overall uptime for blocks/invuls/resistance too high, WoD simply is killing zergs and deciding more zergfights than any scourge.
  • Core Warri
    : dmg Output (especially the boost from Peak Performance)
• Druid
  : Heal when playing for example full apothecary stats (simply unkillable in 1v1), i really see alot of them :#
• Soulbeast
  : dmg Output (6k dmg AA on 1800 Range longbow while unblockable when patswap is broken), and that 1800 range on LB bug (in General on ranger)
• thief
  : invis uptime, there is no counter against all that invis spam in this game and that annoying staff perma dodge build
• ...

and that are just my top picks. other People will absolutely have further builds they could list...

Speed is only as much as what you get from your group dont talk about scorge as solo because that not how wvw works nor is how gw2 is balanced. Necro is out side of scorge is lacking for sure but scorge should not be the only viable verson of necro. For what ever reason Anet made scorge the best boon strip cc support aoe dmg class in the game as well as being very tankly to boot. Reaper has the best power dmg but it must be in DS to use its best skills core necro the same way but for some reason scorge can use all of its effects all the time AND is still heal-able by the necro skills at all times and by other players. That is a big deal that scorge dose not have to deal with the same netives of DS like the other version of necro.

You talk as if scorge is not a problem but how often do you see ppl run reaper or core necro in wvw who also have pof in a group with support players?

There is something wrong with the scorge class on many levels so much so that its changed the very meta it IS the only meta in wvw.

Your fooling your self if you think a few leaps and a few blocks relay make up for what scorge can do as a class and that your comply forgetting the other necro classes in this game who must deal with the same lack ofs but also the lack of having to use DS.

This is not just a question of one class vs another this is a question of with in the same class. Anet should be ASHAMED of this and all necro players should be raging out of there minds over this.

Calm down, people are agreeing with you that they need nerfs. For example I play a lot of classes but necro has for sure been my main. I don’t even like the design of scourge vs the core or hot specs. I think we can all agree nobody likes it when “their class” becomes the brain dead fotm either. Does that mean the spec needs to be deleted? No, but it needs some REASONABLE (since you like caps) adjustments.

You say one soulbeast doesn’t delete a zerg of scourge? Obviously.

Can classes that do counter the scourge kill the enemy scourge who are part of a zerg? Absolutely.

The statement that you shouldn’t have to change class also doesn’t hold much water. If anything WvW has proven that at various or all times certain classes are borderline useless to a zerg. Heaven forbid anyone has to switch classes to make their comp better in a player vs player environment.

These threads would be a lot better if everything wasn’t so blown out of proportion. If someone makes a counter arguement please don’t jump to some ridiculous extreme.

[Jski.6180]

@Dralor.3701 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

Classes should all have a chose to counter every other class and its only scorg where this IS falling apart.

There is something wrong with the scorge class and ppl know it who play it and ppl who play vs it. Every one in GW2 knows the truth but are unwilling to deal with it. Stop defning something that is bluntly wrong.

i dont know why you are so salty, but scourge is by far not the greatest Problem of pof. xD i absolutely agree scourge Need nerfs because its

snowball effect

, that is the true Problem with scourge, that it get stronger with greater number , is problematic. ez solution for example would be to reduce target number shades have to 3.

on the other Hand scourge is still a

necromancer

, so it

lacks

massively Sustain (this class has no blocks, invuls or invis), boons (expecially stability), mobility.that are the weakpoints you can use to counter scourge. and EVERY class is faster than scourge, have more blocks, invuls etc. it is not only range that counter low mobility of scourge….

if you are not able to use that weak Points you should

adjust your build

, cause every class even melee classes can counter scourge. its ez to push a scourge even with a warrior and use Shield block when scourge is starting to bomb you. the bomb has a big WARNING before it Comes. so also the "instant" cast problematic People were complaining in the past isnt a Thing anymore.

so your Argument scourge hasnt enough counters is simply wrong, cause

you can stun, outrun, outrange them or simply block/dodge/be invul against all their shades

…

finally there are

many broken classes

in the game:

• Mirage
  : Condi burst, invis/invul uptime while 6 illusions/clones up, Unlimited mobility, unstunnable
• Spellbreaker
  : Full Counter + overall uptime for blocks/invuls/resistance too high, WoD simply is killing zergs and deciding more zergfights than any scourge.
  • Core Warri
    : dmg Output (especially the boost from Peak Performance)
• Druid
  : Heal when playing for example full apothecary stats (simply unkillable in 1v1), i really see alot of them :#
• Soulbeast
  : dmg Output (6k dmg AA on 1800 Range longbow while unblockable when patswap is broken), and that 1800 range on LB bug (in General on ranger)
• thief
  : invis uptime, there is no counter against all that invis spam in this game and that annoying staff perma dodge build
• ...

and that are just my top picks. other People will absolutely have further builds they could list...

Speed is only as much as what you get from your group dont talk about scorge as solo because that not how wvw works nor is how gw2 is balanced. Necro is out side of scorge is lacking for sure but scorge should not be the only viable verson of necro. For what ever reason Anet made scorge the best boon strip cc support aoe dmg class in the game as well as being very tankly to boot. Reaper has the best power dmg but it must be in DS to use its best skills core necro the same way but for some reason scorge can use all of its effects all the time AND is still heal-able by the necro skills at all times and by other players. That is a big deal that scorge dose not have to deal with the same netives of DS like the other version of necro.

You talk as if scorge is not a problem but how often do you see ppl run reaper or core necro in wvw who also have pof in a group with support players?

There is something wrong with the scorge class on many levels so much so that its changed the very meta it IS the only meta in wvw.

Your fooling your self if you think a few leaps and a few blocks relay make up for what scorge can do as a class and that your comply forgetting the other necro classes in this game who must deal with the same lack ofs but also the lack of having to use DS.

This is not just a question of one class vs another this is a question of with in the same class. Anet should be ASHAMED of this and all necro players should be raging out of there minds over this.

Calm down, people are agreeing with you that they need nerfs. For example I play a lot of classes but necro has for sure been my main. I don’t even like the design of scourge vs the core or hot specs. I think we can all agree nobody likes it when “their class” becomes the brain dead fotm either. Does that mean the spec needs to be deleted? No, but it needs some REASONABLE (since you like caps) adjustments.

You say one soulbeast doesn’t delete a zerg of scourge? Obviously.

Can classes that do counter the scourge kill the enemy scourge who are part of a zerg? Absolutely.

The statement that you shouldn’t have to change class also doesn’t hold much water. If anything WvW has proven that at various or all times certain classes are borderline useless to a zerg. Heaven forbid anyone has to switch classes to make their comp better in a player vs player environment.

These threads would be a lot better if everything wasn’t so blown out of proportion. If someone makes a counter arguement please don’t jump to some ridiculous extreme.

Have you realty fought in wvw lately the ground is fire this is worst then the old dragon banner chron tricks and that got nerfed hard. Wvw is a frail thing after the last few updates population are falling things that make the game more boring like scorge are comply wrecking the fun to both the ppl using and getting hit but this class.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:Necro has the worst mobility in the gw2 what game are you even playing?

Yes, scourge is a spammy garbage spec but again please be real. You keep repeating the same stuff and yes we can all agree the current WvW meta is not healthy.

Again not sure what sever you are playing on but we push through other blobs all day, clouding works.

Because of scorge stacking that the very point i am trying to make scorge is both the problem and the fix in the current "unhealthy" meta. You play scorge to deal with scorge but then there more scorge causing more problems.

I mean.. I just play zerker soulbeast and kill them in one rapid fire if I feel frustrated with scourge. As I keep repeating obviously it is too good but there are still ways to adapt.

Complaining and not trying to adapt is not constructive and your own fault.

Making ridiculous claims about the class, also not constructive.

One zerker soulbeast dose not kill a zerg of scourge. Your mixing up 1v1 counters something that this game is NOT balanced for vs blob metas where this game is a lot more balanced for.

Adapt is changing a class build and gear not changing classes all together. Even swaping to a new wepon set is adapting but simply changing class is NOT adapting that called giving up.

The fact that you think changing class is adapting as means of dealing with scorge show there something wrong with the scorge class as all classes should be able to counter all other classes its on an issues of builds and strategy.

On the contrary, several times I've killed multiple scourge in the enemy zerg (which outnumbered us 2 to 1) resulting in the zerg turning tail and running. It's actually not that hard to do, but because many people just can't be bothered to jump on a ranger have no clue just how overpowered they are against Scourge. I imagine any other class that decides to play range and focus Scourge will come to the same conclusion; it's so mismatched you practically feel sorry for them killing them.

You know, I jumped on my warrior the other day, zerg clashing away, I run in dump my bubble, and of course I get blown up with conditions. Surprise Surprise, because there were no ranged around to take out the Scourge. I keep telling people, this and I'll keep telling them the more people complain about Scourge:

Get off your melee class and get on ranged. It doesn't matter whether or not you don't want to play range, do it anyway and stop complaining.

OK, I'm taking you up on your offer.

I like WvW.I like playing in Zergs.My WvW characters is LB / GS Soulbeast. Full exotics + ascendeds with a mix of DPS and defensive stats /runes.

My main and 1st love are my Guardian but I wouldn't ever consider bringing a melee into this meta.

Please come and show me how it's done, because saying "just use SB ranger" are just words.

Played WvW for a bit last night (first time in a long while actually), and the enemy zerg was doing shade spam. My group and their zerg would go back and forth -they would advance, blow their cooldowns, retreat to let them reset, and advance again.

Over and over in my mind are words like yours "Rangers counter scourge"

I couldnt tell by looking at the mass of players who was a necro and who wasn't.I tried to click on specific players to target them (vs. tab targeting) and my mouse was unreliable - I couldnt in most cases target the guy I was clicking on.I was able to pop my signet, sic' em and rapid fire before I was spammed with conditions.

So please teach me.

BONUS question: why do I get "obstructed" half the time when I tried to snipe enemy players manning cannons and such, but scourges can cover the battlements with blobs that incapacitate and kill multiple players at once?

My Necromancer is almost 60, and I've pretty much decided I might as well just play ezmode WvW like everyone else, since it doesn't appear that this is ever getting fixed.

[Arioch.4810]

Look at my Scourge,My Scourge is amazingHis armor is slickand he smells like raisin'

Have a stroke of its maneand it turns into a planethen in turns back againWhen you tug on its sand shade

OOO,thats dirty!

Do you think so?Well, i better not show youWhere the AoEs are madeSweet AoEsMmmm, sweet AoEsSweet AoEsYeah Sweet AoEs

Get on my ScourgeI'll take you round the universeAnd all the other places too

-But i think that gamempaly is boring?-Shut up woman, get on my Scourge

[Would shut up newbie, reroll to Scourge work beter here?]

[Dralor.3701]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

Classes should all have a chose to counter every other class and its only scorg where this IS falling apart.

There is something wrong with the scorge class and ppl know it who play it and ppl who play vs it. Every one in GW2 knows the truth but are unwilling to deal with it. Stop defning something that is bluntly wrong.

i dont know why you are so salty, but scourge is by far not the greatest Problem of pof. xD i absolutely agree scourge Need nerfs because its

snowball effect

, that is the true Problem with scourge, that it get stronger with greater number , is problematic. ez solution for example would be to reduce target number shades have to 3.

on the other Hand scourge is still a

necromancer

, so it

lacks

massively Sustain (this class has no blocks, invuls or invis), boons (expecially stability), mobility.that are the weakpoints you can use to counter scourge. and EVERY class is faster than scourge, have more blocks, invuls etc. it is not only range that counter low mobility of scourge….

if you are not able to use that weak Points you should

adjust your build

, cause every class even melee classes can counter scourge. its ez to push a scourge even with a warrior and use Shield block when scourge is starting to bomb you. the bomb has a big WARNING before it Comes. so also the "instant" cast problematic People were complaining in the past isnt a Thing anymore.

so your Argument scourge hasnt enough counters is simply wrong, cause

you can stun, outrun, outrange them or simply block/dodge/be invul against all their shades

…

finally there are

many broken classes

in the game:

• Mirage
  : Condi burst, invis/invul uptime while 6 illusions/clones up, Unlimited mobility, unstunnable
• Spellbreaker
  : Full Counter + overall uptime for blocks/invuls/resistance too high, WoD simply is killing zergs and deciding more zergfights than any scourge.
  • Core Warri
    : dmg Output (especially the boost from Peak Performance)
• Druid
  : Heal when playing for example full apothecary stats (simply unkillable in 1v1), i really see alot of them :#
• Soulbeast
  : dmg Output (6k dmg AA on 1800 Range longbow while unblockable when patswap is broken), and that 1800 range on LB bug (in General on ranger)
• thief
  : invis uptime, there is no counter against all that invis spam in this game and that annoying staff perma dodge build
• ...

and that are just my top picks. other People will absolutely have further builds they could list...

Speed is only as much as what you get from your group dont talk about scorge as solo because that not how wvw works nor is how gw2 is balanced. Necro is out side of scorge is lacking for sure but scorge should not be the only viable verson of necro. For what ever reason Anet made scorge the best boon strip cc support aoe dmg class in the game as well as being very tankly to boot. Reaper has the best power dmg but it must be in DS to use its best skills core necro the same way but for some reason scorge can use all of its effects all the time AND is still heal-able by the necro skills at all times and by other players. That is a big deal that scorge dose not have to deal with the same netives of DS like the other version of necro.

You talk as if scorge is not a problem but how often do you see ppl run reaper or core necro in wvw who also have pof in a group with support players?

There is something wrong with the scorge class on many levels so much so that its changed the very meta it IS the only meta in wvw.

Your fooling your self if you think a few leaps and a few blocks relay make up for what scorge can do as a class and that your comply forgetting the other necro classes in this game who must deal with the same lack ofs but also the lack of having to use DS.

This is not just a question of one class vs another this is a question of with in the same class. Anet should be ASHAMED of this and all necro players should be raging out of there minds over this.

Calm down, people are agreeing with you that they need nerfs. For example I play a lot of classes but necro has for sure been my main. I don’t even like the design of scourge vs the core or hot specs. I think we can all agree nobody likes it when “their class” becomes the brain dead fotm either. Does that mean the spec needs to be deleted? No, but it needs some REASONABLE (since you like caps) adjustments.

You say one soulbeast doesn’t delete a zerg of scourge? Obviously.

Can classes that do counter the scourge kill the enemy scourge who are part of a zerg? Absolutely.

The statement that you shouldn’t have to change class also doesn’t hold much water. If anything WvW has proven that at various or all times certain classes are borderline useless to a zerg. Heaven forbid anyone has to switch classes to make their comp better in a player vs player environment.

These threads would be a lot better if everything wasn’t so blown out of proportion. If someone makes a counter arguement please don’t jump to some ridiculous extreme.

Have you realty fought in wvw lately the ground is fire this is worst then the old dragon banner chron tricks and that got nerfed hard. Wvw is a frail thing after the last few updates population are falling things that make the game more boring like scorge are comply wrecking the fun to both the ppl using and getting hit but this class.

Yeah, WvW is pretty bad right now the pirate ship is real. Frustrating getting hit by insane meteor ticks too with the buff, ele not as OP as scourge but basically can’t melee in this meta.

[Dralor.3701]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

Classes should all have a chose to counter every other class and its only scorg where this IS falling apart.

There is something wrong with the scorge class and ppl know it who play it and ppl who play vs it. Every one in GW2 knows the truth but are unwilling to deal with it. Stop defning something that is bluntly wrong.

i dont know why you are so salty, but scourge is by far not the greatest Problem of pof. xD i absolutely agree scourge Need nerfs because its

snowball effect

, that is the true Problem with scourge, that it get stronger with greater number , is problematic. ez solution for example would be to reduce target number shades have to 3.

on the other Hand scourge is still a

necromancer

, so it

lacks

massively Sustain (this class has no blocks, invuls or invis), boons (expecially stability), mobility.that are the weakpoints you can use to counter scourge. and EVERY class is faster than scourge, have more blocks, invuls etc. it is not only range that counter low mobility of scourge….

if you are not able to use that weak Points you should

adjust your build

, cause every class even melee classes can counter scourge. its ez to push a scourge even with a warrior and use Shield block when scourge is starting to bomb you. the bomb has a big WARNING before it Comes. so also the "instant" cast problematic People were complaining in the past isnt a Thing anymore.

so your Argument scourge hasnt enough counters is simply wrong, cause

you can stun, outrun, outrange them or simply block/dodge/be invul against all their shades

…

finally there are

many broken classes

in the game:

• Mirage
  : Condi burst, invis/invul uptime while 6 illusions/clones up, Unlimited mobility, unstunnable
• Spellbreaker
  : Full Counter + overall uptime for blocks/invuls/resistance too high, WoD simply is killing zergs and deciding more zergfights than any scourge.
  • Core Warri
    : dmg Output (especially the boost from Peak Performance)
• Druid
  : Heal when playing for example full apothecary stats (simply unkillable in 1v1), i really see alot of them :#
• Soulbeast
  : dmg Output (6k dmg AA on 1800 Range longbow while unblockable when patswap is broken), and that 1800 range on LB bug (in General on ranger)
• thief
  : invis uptime, there is no counter against all that invis spam in this game and that annoying staff perma dodge build
• ...

and that are just my top picks. other People will absolutely have further builds they could list...

Speed is only as much as what you get from your group dont talk about scorge as solo because that not how wvw works nor is how gw2 is balanced. Necro is out side of scorge is lacking for sure but scorge should not be the only viable verson of necro. For what ever reason Anet made scorge the best boon strip cc support aoe dmg class in the game as well as being very tankly to boot. Reaper has the best power dmg but it must be in DS to use its best skills core necro the same way but for some reason scorge can use all of its effects all the time AND is still heal-able by the necro skills at all times and by other players. That is a big deal that scorge dose not have to deal with the same netives of DS like the other version of necro.

You talk as if scorge is not a problem but how often do you see ppl run reaper or core necro in wvw who also have pof in a group with support players?

There is something wrong with the scorge class on many levels so much so that its changed the very meta it IS the only meta in wvw.

Your fooling your self if you think a few leaps and a few blocks relay make up for what scorge can do as a class and that your comply forgetting the other necro classes in this game who must deal with the same lack ofs but also the lack of having to use DS.

This is not just a question of one class vs another this is a question of with in the same class. Anet should be ASHAMED of this and all necro players should be raging out of there minds over this.

Calm down, people are agreeing with you that they need nerfs. For example I play a lot of classes but necro has for sure been my main. I don’t even like the design of scourge vs the core or hot specs. I think we can all agree nobody likes it when “their class” becomes the brain dead fotm either. Does that mean the spec needs to be deleted? No, but it needs some REASONABLE (since you like caps) adjustments.

You say one soulbeast doesn’t delete a zerg of scourge? Obviously.

Can classes that do counter the scourge kill the enemy scourge who are part of a zerg? Absolutely.

The statement that you shouldn’t have to change class also doesn’t hold much water. If anything WvW has proven that at various or all times certain classes are borderline useless to a zerg. Heaven forbid anyone has to switch classes to make their comp better in a player vs player environment.

These threads would be a lot better if everything wasn’t so blown out of proportion. If someone makes a counter arguement please don’t jump to some ridiculous extreme.

Have you realty fought in wvw lately the ground is fire this is worst then the old dragon banner chron tricks and that got nerfed hard. Wvw is a frail thing after the last few updates population are falling things that make the game more boring like scorge are comply wrecking the fun to both the ppl using and getting hit but this class.

Yeah, WvW is pretty bad right now the pirate ship is real. Frustrating getting hit by insane meteor ticks too with the buff, ele not as OP as scourge but basically can’t melee in this meta.

[morrolan.9608]

@Dralor.3701 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

Classes should all have a chose to counter every other class and its only scorg where this IS falling apart.

There is something wrong with the scorge class and ppl know it who play it and ppl who play vs it. Every one in GW2 knows the truth but are unwilling to deal with it. Stop defning something that is bluntly wrong.

i dont know why you are so salty, but scourge is by far not the greatest Problem of pof. xD i absolutely agree scourge Need nerfs because its

snowball effect

, that is the true Problem with scourge, that it get stronger with greater number , is problematic. ez solution for example would be to reduce target number shades have to 3.

on the other Hand scourge is still a

necromancer

, so it

lacks

massively Sustain (this class has no blocks, invuls or invis), boons (expecially stability), mobility.that are the weakpoints you can use to counter scourge. and EVERY class is faster than scourge, have more blocks, invuls etc. it is not only range that counter low mobility of scourge….

if you are not able to use that weak Points you should

adjust your build

, cause every class even melee classes can counter scourge. its ez to push a scourge even with a warrior and use Shield block when scourge is starting to bomb you. the bomb has a big WARNING before it Comes. so also the "instant" cast problematic People were complaining in the past isnt a Thing anymore.

so your Argument scourge hasnt enough counters is simply wrong, cause

you can stun, outrun, outrange them or simply block/dodge/be invul against all their shades

…

finally there are

many broken classes

in the game:

• Mirage
  : Condi burst, invis/invul uptime while 6 illusions/clones up, Unlimited mobility, unstunnable
• Spellbreaker
  : Full Counter + overall uptime for blocks/invuls/resistance too high, WoD simply is killing zergs and deciding more zergfights than any scourge.
  • Core Warri
    : dmg Output (especially the boost from Peak Performance)
• Druid
  : Heal when playing for example full apothecary stats (simply unkillable in 1v1), i really see alot of them :#
• Soulbeast
  : dmg Output (6k dmg AA on 1800 Range longbow while unblockable when patswap is broken), and that 1800 range on LB bug (in General on ranger)
• thief
  : invis uptime, there is no counter against all that invis spam in this game and that annoying staff perma dodge build
• ...

and that are just my top picks. other People will absolutely have further builds they could list...

Speed is only as much as what you get from your group dont talk about scorge as solo because that not how wvw works nor is how gw2 is balanced. Necro is out side of scorge is lacking for sure but scorge should not be the only viable verson of necro. For what ever reason Anet made scorge the best boon strip cc support aoe dmg class in the game as well as being very tankly to boot. Reaper has the best power dmg but it must be in DS to use its best skills core necro the same way but for some reason scorge can use all of its effects all the time AND is still heal-able by the necro skills at all times and by other players. That is a big deal that scorge dose not have to deal with the same netives of DS like the other version of necro.

You talk as if scorge is not a problem but how often do you see ppl run reaper or core necro in wvw who also have pof in a group with support players?

There is something wrong with the scorge class on many levels so much so that its changed the very meta it IS the only meta in wvw.

Your fooling your self if you think a few leaps and a few blocks relay make up for what scorge can do as a class and that your comply forgetting the other necro classes in this game who must deal with the same lack ofs but also the lack of having to use DS.

This is not just a question of one class vs another this is a question of with in the same class. Anet should be ASHAMED of this and all necro players should be raging out of there minds over this.

Calm down, people are agreeing with you that they need nerfs. For example I play a lot of classes but necro has for sure been my main. I don’t even like the design of scourge vs the core or hot specs. I think we can all agree nobody likes it when “their class” becomes the brain dead fotm either. Does that mean the spec needs to be deleted? No, but it needs some REASONABLE (since you like caps) adjustments.

You say one soulbeast doesn’t delete a zerg of scourge? Obviously.

Can classes that do counter the scourge kill the enemy scourge who are part of a zerg? Absolutely.

The statement that you shouldn’t have to change class also doesn’t hold much water. If anything WvW has proven that at various or all times certain classes are borderline useless to a zerg. Heaven forbid anyone has to switch classes to make their comp better in a player vs player environment.

These threads would be a lot better if everything wasn’t so blown out of proportion. If someone makes a counter arguement please don’t jump to some ridiculous extreme.

Its absolutely impractical to expect zergs to completely change comp for a scourgeball comp and then change once its wiped especially with queues.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Malediktus.9250 said:Scourge and Firebrand are the worst that ever happened to WvW

Well FB is easy to balance, with some values up and down, Scourge is entirelly diferent, it's design is broken for this game, to spammy, while being offensive and deffensive at same time....

[perilisk.1874]

Seems like one thing they could do that might help a little would be to make the shades conceptually act as a transfer of AoE, rather than creating AoE. So, with no shades cast, shade skills pulse in a large AoE around the scourge with a target cap of 5. With one cast, the PBAoE is medium-sized with a cap of 4, with two shades cast the PBAoE is small (same as a shade, with a cap of 3), and with three cast, it doesn't pulse around the Scourge at all. Sand Savant would use a single shade with the largest AoE and a cap of 5, which would count as 3 shades (meaning, when cast, shade skills don't pulse around the scourge). And in all cases, there should be an overall target cap for scourge skills of 5, across all AoEs, in addition to the cap for each AoE.

So, it would be a nerf in some situations, but not entirely (could be considered a buff for melee scourge).

[Aeolus.3615]

Or remove the range from scourge, making it a class on very short range/melee range combat, also reducing the spam on the scourge overall, and increase number of targets on meteor storm to become 7-10 target aoe spell.

[Kilamanjaro.2705]

I main a scourge, before that a reaper. weak strong i dont care.Regardless, all it takes is one decent player to focus me and I'm down everytime. Thats called risk/reward.If we don't like risk/reward then I'll be waiting for the nerfs to permastealth thieves and low-risk mirage shatters that can down 3 to 5 moderate players by themselves.The Scourge doesn't need another nerf (although it got one this morning that I'm going to go checkout in a moment). All that needs to happen is zergs that dont run around hitting 1, 6 and 0 and instead pick their tatgets. That sand shade erupting all over my body is huge neon bullseye, click it stun unload and live. Don't click it and enjoy your run back from the waypoint*and for the record, I hate the "bomb-meta" which is really part of the complaint here in reality. When was the last time DPS was consistently in melee range? In stead the fight usually starts before you even see anyone on screen and you then have nothing but a field of AoE's, hell noone even uses finishing moves cuz they're broken too, you cant get em off 90%of the time, instead we drop an AoE on the down's to secure the kill #BoringAf . Bomb-run-cooldown-bomb-run...... maybe thats why ive been roaming more lately, bomb meta's are nauseating

[MudkipLover.3792]

Welp, the update today nerfed the Scourge a tiny bit in PvP/WvW.

[Kilamanjaro.2705]

@"MudkipLover.3792" said:Welp, the update today nerfed the Scourge a tiny bit in PvP/WvW.

I woul;d not call tripling the cooldown a "tiny" nerf

[aspirine.5839]

@Kilamanjaro.2705 said:

@"MudkipLover.3792" said:Welp, the update today nerfed the Scourge a tiny bit in PvP/WvW.

I woul;d not call tripling the cooldown a "tiny" nerf

Well at least it's a nerf :)

[Wizardauz.3761]

Necro player myself. (Reaper Main, but i know scourge)

Gotta be honest, while some players might see this nerf as "huge". I doubt Sand Savant will have much change on the strength of the specialization. You just wont see Sand Savant taken anymore sure. He'll just have multiple shades out instead.

The problem in my mind was how effective Scourge was for going Full Celestial. Being able to pump out good damage, condis, and be one of best supporting classes in team environments. The saying should go "Jack of all Trades, Master of None" which is what Celestial essential is in an armor-set. But the "Master of None" part doesn't seem to show through. Combine that with the fact that once you stack them they get exponentially stronger and provide even better support. While a single Scrouge on Paper doesn't seem OP vs "Insert Class Here", Scourge value after stacking gets even better.

Maybe the nerf will bring it into line. I doubt it though. Personally would like scourge to be balanced so other parts of Necro can be addressed.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:Necro has the worst mobility in the gw2 what game are you even playing?

Yes, scourge is a spammy garbage spec but again please be real. You keep repeating the same stuff and yes we can all agree the current WvW meta is not healthy.

Again not sure what sever you are playing on but we push through other blobs all day, clouding works.

Because of scorge stacking that the very point i am trying to make scorge is both the problem and the fix in the current "unhealthy" meta. You play scorge to deal with scorge but then there more scorge causing more problems.

I mean.. I just play zerker soulbeast and kill them in one rapid fire if I feel frustrated with scourge. As I keep repeating obviously it is too good but there are still ways to adapt.

Complaining and not trying to adapt is not constructive and your own fault.

Making ridiculous claims about the class, also not constructive.

One zerker soulbeast dose not kill a zerg of scourge. Your mixing up 1v1 counters something that this game is NOT balanced for vs blob metas where this game is a lot more balanced for.

Adapt is changing a class build and gear not changing classes all together. Even swaping to a new wepon set is adapting but simply changing class is NOT adapting that called giving up.

The fact that you think changing class is adapting as means of dealing with scorge show there something wrong with the scorge class as all classes should be able to counter all other classes its on an issues of builds and strategy.

On the contrary, several times I've killed multiple scourge in the enemy zerg (which outnumbered us 2 to 1) resulting in the zerg turning tail and running. It's actually not that hard to do, but because many people just can't be bothered to jump on a ranger have no clue just how overpowered they are against Scourge. I imagine any other class that decides to play range and focus Scourge will come to the same conclusion; it's so mismatched you practically feel sorry for them killing them.

You know, I jumped on my warrior the other day, zerg clashing away, I run in dump my bubble, and of course I get blown up with conditions. Surprise Surprise, because there were no ranged around to take out the Scourge. I keep telling people, this and I'll keep telling them the more people complain about Scourge:

Get off your melee class and get on ranged. It doesn't matter whether or not you don't want to play range, do it anyway and stop complaining.

OK, I'm taking you up on your offer.

I like WvW.I like playing in Zergs.My WvW characters is LB / GS Soulbeast. Full exotics + ascendeds with a mix of DPS and defensive stats /runes.

My main and 1st love are my Guardian but I wouldn't ever consider bringing a melee into this meta.

Please come and show me how it's done, because saying "just use SB ranger" are just words.

Played WvW for a bit last night (first time in a long while actually), and the enemy zerg was doing shade spam. My group and their zerg would go back and forth -they would advance, blow their cooldowns, retreat to let them reset, and advance again.

Over and over in my mind are words like yours "Rangers counter scourge"

I couldnt tell by looking at the mass of players who was a necro and who wasn't.I tried to click on specific players to target them (vs. tab targeting) and my mouse was unreliable - I couldnt in most cases target the guy I was clicking on.I was able to pop my signet, sic' em and rapid fire before I was spammed with conditions.

So please teach me.

BONUS question: why do I get "obstructed" half the time when I tried to snipe enemy players manning cannons and such, but scourges can cover the battlements with blobs that incapacitate and kill multiple players at once?

My Necromancer is almost 60, and I've pretty much decided I might as well just play ezmode WvW like everyone else, since it doesn't appear that this is ever getting fixed.

To get to the bonus question first, a lot of what a scourge does is ground targeted (shades and staff marks) and can be placed on top of walls/cannons. A ranger typically only has Barrage to hit enemies on walls. If you're trying to focus someone on a cannon, it's more efficient to burn down the cannon itself since Barrage is the only longbow skill that'll reliably hit the person using the cannon.

As to countering scourges in a zerg, I've found positioning to be king to avoid their condition spam. Soulbeast doesn't really need the boons of the ally zerg, and I've found pin sniping to be more effective if I'm off to the side of both zergs. Soulbeast has the tools to disengage if necessary (swoop on greatsword, swoop if using Owl beastmode), and the enemy zerg typically won't try and chase down a single ranger for fear of your zerg getting at their backline.

If you time it so you go after a scourge as your zerg pushes, you'll force that scourge to burn defensive cooldowns/life force to stay alive. The lack of pierce on longbow (natively at least) does make it so shots can be body blocked by other players, but height helps with that. If you can be somewhere with a higher elevation than the enemy zerg, then your arrows are more likely to get to your target without anything getting in the way (and elevation helps longbow's range).

Tab targeting is quicker (but still annoying if there are a lot of targets to cycle through) than trying to click on someone in a zerg in my experience. Also, the more you see scourges in action, the more familiar their animations will be to you. The trail of sand stunbreak of theirs is a dead giveaway for one.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@"Kilamanjaro.2705" said:I main a scourge, before that a reaper. weak strong i dont care.Regardless, all it takes is one decent player to focus me and I'm down everytime. Thats called risk/reward.If we don't like risk/reward then I'll be waiting for the nerfs to permastealth thieves and low-risk mirage shatters that can down 3 to 5 moderate players by themselves.The Scourge doesn't need another nerf (although it got one this morning that I'm going to go checkout in a moment). All that needs to happen is zergs that dont run around hitting 1, 6 and 0 and instead pick their tatgets. That sand shade erupting all over my body is huge neon bullseye, click it stun unload and live. Don't click it and enjoy your run back from the waypoint*and for the record, I hate the "bomb-meta" which is really part of the complaint here in reality. When was the last time DPS was consistently in melee range? In stead the fight usually starts before you even see anyone on screen and you then have nothing but a field of AoE's, hell noone even uses finishing moves cuz they're broken too, you cant get em off 90%of the time, instead we drop an AoE on the down's to secure the kill #BoringAf . Bomb-run-cooldown-bomb-run...... maybe thats why ive been roaming more lately, bomb meta's are nauseating

You say that zergs need to pick their targets, but that's the entire complaint around scourge: it doesn't need to because the problem is it poops out massive AoEs with Sand Savant like nothing else this game has seen.

Really, the target prioritization argument is the same counter as it is to the boonshare meta where nobody can seemingly die.

If target prio and counterengage in mass scale was so easy, people would have played zergs of rangers and thieves for a long time. It's just not realistic to do.

I don't think this change will really do much, but I think it's a start. Scourge is ironically the scourge of necromancer, as it's preventing a lot of buffs to core necro and reaper.

[Trejgon.9367]

@"Jski.6180" said:You talk as if scorge is not a problem but how often do you see ppl run reaper or core necro in wvw who also have pof in a group with support players?

we have one in our guild! he once was even asked why.

and the answer was.... "I didn't really like that new scourge thing"

and he's running reaper! and giving other necroses in a guild reaper builds!

as for the talk right above that post, yeah because everyone runs builds with alot of handy stuns while in zerg....pro-hint - even those that does cannot stun all the shades that big scourge groups can pop.

another prohint - for many of us out there in this specific scenarios sand shades does not even render - all you see is big red circle(s) on your approach path

[morrolan.9608]

@Kilamanjaro.2705 said:

@"MudkipLover.3792" said:Welp, the update today nerfed the Scourge a tiny bit in PvP/WvW.

I woul;d not call tripling the cooldown a "tiny" nerf

I would, especially when they can potentially not take that trait.

[Riba.3271]

The nerf basically made it so that scourge has 4 manifest sand shades instead of 6.You start with 3, then you recharge 1 instead of 3.After that you will be considerably worse.

It is pretty big nerf, remember when axe 3 got buffed to 2 boons and boon corruption went up considerably? It is same kind of effects because people were just spamming f1 to AoE corrupt boons (or give barrier, some of those useless blood magic healing scourges :angry: ).

It doesnt really affect the short faceroll fights and good scourges will still be fine with proper shade management. I myself think they should also nerf the manifest sand shades scourge starts with to 2 on big shade, 3 is too much to work with.

Btw having to take small shades is still a massive nerf, because the radius around the scourge will be so small that you can just kite it most of the time.

[Kilamanjaro.2705]

I've been in wvw alot since patch and have only seen one person so far to tell people to leave their scourges in the garage. There does seem to be less ground clutter.......but it's still a kitten bomb meta. (And if you missed it earlier in the thread, I main scourge usually)My damage on scourge is not changed much if i time my shades at about 10 seconds. But the loss seems to be in support, not damage as much.However, I stand by my earlier statement, If we're going to address one classes bombs we need to discuss them ALL. Push, bomb, regroup, cooldown, push, bomb, rinse, repeat, BROKEN.

[Emprer.7256]

It should either be effective in damage or support through builds but not in both. It's still very broken.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

Scourge is seriously broken. All those Red Rings of Death that bring out the red carpet are ridiculous. 1v1 I agree, no problems. However, when you come up against a zerg that is 80% Scourges with a few Spellbreakers and Firebrands thrown in for support...........It's downright stupid. ALL players should be viable in WvW in a zerg. When Commanders kick or ask for everything but Rangers, Thieves, and Mesmers......that's broken WvW. Everybody should be able to contribute equally. Anet needs to do some serious soul searching in regards to balancing out WvW. I hope they do it soon, cuz at this rate we are losing more players than gaining.

[Aeolus.3615]

@"oOStaticOo.9467" said:Scourge is seriously broken. All those Red Rings of Death that bring out the red carpet are ridiculous. 1v1 I agree, no problems. However, when you come up against a zerg that is 80% Scourges with a few Spellbreakers and Firebrands thrown in for support...........It's downright stupid. ALL players should be viable in WvW in a zerg. When Commanders kick or ask for everything but Rangers, Thieves, and Mesmers......that's broken WvW. Everybody should be able to contribute equally. Anet needs to do some serious soul searching in regards to balancing out WvW. I hope they do it soon, cuz at this rate we are losing more players than gaining.

Anet have stated before they wont pusnihs players, can u imagine how many of those bad players playing and stacking scourge will get "punishsed" if Anet balances scourge trully.This is a game to catter players who cares about titles and dont want to learn to play the class. xD