Celestial

[OriOri.8724]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:One thing to keep in mind about all this is the PvP team is not tied to the skills & balance release schedule. If we decide that adding in a nerfed Celestial amulet had a negative affect, we'd remove it again on the next release. So it would be a matter of 3 weeks or so rather than months.

Why can't the balance team get on your schedule then? Balance patches every couple months is an atrocious schedule for a competitive game mode.

[Dusk.4708]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We're open to adding additional amulets if we feel they will be a positive addition. We've been reading feedback. However, other new ones will take longer to add, since we'll need both new icon art and localization. Since Celestial already existed, we already have that stuff.

opening celestial back up in SPvP would open alot of builds back up and make the diversity of the game better IMO

[Supz.9836]

I would love to see celestial stats return, balance it sure, but it definitely promotes build diversity.

[tsuyosugiru.7634]

I had to login just to voice my opinion, But please Anet for the love of whatever you hold dearest, do not bring back any version of Celestial amulet. That amulet was just the purest form of kitten and I really think that it cannot be balanced for as long as we have access to passive/health threshold safety nets.

[marsamo.8061]

Do not bring back Celestial amulet, the offense and defense it offers is too much. Learn from the mistakes.The proposed 560 --> 500 stats will make zero difference.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Having stats at all is already bad enough for PvP. We could remove Amulets altogether and we'd lose like half of the spamminess and overstacking of effects.

Celestial only makes things worse.

[sephiroth.4217]

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@witcher.3197 said:

@Ario.8964 said:Don't know why everyone is complaining about season 1 when celestial comes back in. You can't blame the amulet

Why do people in this thread act as if celestial only existed in season 1? Didn't Abjured win a major tournament way before that with a 4 celestial comp (2 eles, 1 engi, 1 nec)? For nearly 2 years it was very oppressive on several classes - ele, warrior, necro, engi, then in HoT briefly ranger and mesmer.

Now it could work with all those plus new ones like s/d condi thief.

Everyone gets this wrong, Beijing winning comp was Two cele eles, Carrion Necro, Rabid Engi, Cele Engi. 3 Cele when the EU meta comp was two cele and a Cleric Guard.........

dude... condi s/d thief is way gone.. if you see someone running that build they are doing minimal damage with it. Do you even bother looking at patch notes? Celestial amulet was the highest skill cap meta.. Competition was at its peak and the main reason the majority of players didn't like it was due to it separating the bads from goods. Sry folks that is what happens when you put good players on a even playing ground across multiple classes against bad players.

Pretty sure Chaith was in that comp dude. I may be wrong but I think Chaith is one of the ESL guys.

[padreadamo.3986]

@Ara.4569 said:Removing amulets to balance PvP has always been the worst possible form of balance. So it's only natural they did it again and again... Not only are the real problems not addressed, but they also killed what was fine in the process.

As long as ANet refuses to split skills and traits, balance is doomed. And I'm not talking about 1-3 per profession in 2 years like they are doing, I'm talking MAJOR groundbreaking splits.

This is what needs to be done. Balance patches every 3-4 months that are NOT REAL balance patches need to stop. If they want to keep the changes small, then we should get them every month.

[Ario.8964]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We're open to adding additional amulets if we feel they will be a positive addition. We've been reading feedback. However, other new ones will take longer to add, since we'll need both new icon art and localization. Since Celestial already existed, we already have that stuff.

As far as amulets that already existed, has there been any consideration of reintroducing soldier and mercenary amulets? Both could be very nice additions to this game for many builds. Mercenary was a very good choice for mesmer and actually may be a solid choice for a hybrid engineer if cele is not taken instead. Soldier would allow people to possibly go for a tankier build than offered with paladin at the cost of being able to crit which is a sacrifice they should be able to make. Even if they aren't super popular, adding in amulets increases the possible choices people can make which ends up opening more build options for people to experiment with.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Having stats at all is already bad enough for PvP. We could remove Amulets altogether and we'd lose like half of the spamminess and overstacking of effects.

Celestial only makes things worse.

If amulets were invisible and everyone were on celestial amulet the game would feel better overall. Part of the problem right now is things like too much/fast spike damage and celestial doesnt bring higher spike to the table to make things worse, it brings a more well rounded defense to try to make things better on both sides (less spike coming from the guy with a more rounded defense).

@Falan.1839 said:With Mesmer already doing hybrid damage and scaling very well with healing power that will probably skyrocket that class quite a bit... Same for ele probably. I'm not sure if this is a good idea at all...

I think this mesmer relying on shatter will always be in a strange spot, I want a mes with redid mechanics like necros/guards get.

[messiah.1908]

imo cele amulet benefit classes and build which can stack might fast and longer. as only than you could benefit from the lower other sustain points like armor, hp, healing.so the classes whoc can do so are still ele, mesmer (some sustain build), engi and ranger. all other class like thief, warrior, necro rev, guard wont touch it.so yes i vote yes to more builds variety and fun

[sephiroth.4217]

@messiah.1908 said:imo cele amulet benefit classes and build which can stack might fast and longer. as only than you could benefit from the lower other sustain points like armor, hp, healing.so the classes whoc can do so are still ele, mesmer (some sustain build), engi and ranger. all other class like thief, warrior, necro rev, guard wont touch it.so yes i vote yes to more builds variety and fun

Didn't Scourge recently get a might stacking build outside of Spite/soul reaping? Not that it matters with all the boon corruptions/stripping floating around.

[Vitali.5039]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@messiah.1908 said:imo cele amulet benefit classes and build which can stack might fast and longer. as only than you could benefit from the lower other sustain points like armor, hp, healing.so the classes whoc can do so are still ele, mesmer (some sustain build), engi and ranger. all other class like thief, warrior, necro rev, guard wont touch it.so yes i vote yes to more builds variety and fun

Didn't Scourge recently get a might stacking build outside of Spite/soul reaping? Not that it matters with all the boon corruptions/stripping floating around.

Yes, party size might stacking (small radius) and might stacking on barriers/condi conversion.So even if Scourge will not be more dangerous it will provide might if running a sustain build for the joy of all the celestial users.

Boon corruption intensifies

[masskillerxploit.2165]

So might stacking is the actual problem but cele should not be implemented back into the game to get more build diversity because of ????... :thinking:we need cele amy back, it will bring alot more people into spvp.

[Mr Godlike.6098]

Hmm cele back....feels like lazy fix of ele's problems. Truth is it won't improve much for weaver (GIVE US DAMAGE AND ACESS TO IT) and tempest might be able to do 1v1's (lol DH will become extinct again) but who cares - spellbraker still will be god on side nodes with no counters. Personally I don't want celestial because firebrand and chrono exists.

[masskillerxploit.2165]

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:Hmm cele back....feels like lazy fix of ele's problems. Truth is it won't improve much for weaver (GIVE US DAMAGE AND ACESS TO IT) and tempest might be able to do 1v1's (lol DH will become extinct again) but who cares - spellbraker still will be god on side nodes with no counters. Personally I don't want celestial because firebrand and chrono exists.

What? firebrand dps blows in spvp, the only meta build that will ever exist for firebrand will be the bunker support build, and guess what, it will always be on a magi type amulet NOT CELESTIAL. I agree about chrono, but then again, its not cele amys fault its the overtuned spec's fault.

[Chaith.8256]

Celestial is coming back with less stats than 3stat Amulets: 4Stat Amulets: 3220 Stats. 3Stat Amulets: 3000 Stats. New Celestial: 2760 Stats, used to be 3360. The raw power increase is gone

[Mr Godlike.6098]

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:Hmm cele back....feels like lazy fix of ele's problems. Truth is it won't improve much for weaver (GIVE US DAMAGE AND ACESS TO IT) and tempest might be able to do 1v1's (lol DH will become extinct again) but who cares - spellbraker still will be god on side nodes with no counters. Personally I don't want celestial because firebrand and chrono exists.

What? firebrand dps blows in spvp, the only meta build that will ever exist for firebrand will be the bunker support build, and guess what, it will always be on a magi type amulet NOT CELESTIAL. I agree about chrono, but then again, its not cele amys fault its the overtuned spec's fault.

Of course celestial is better then magi on firebrand and I not talking about damage. With magi you kinda can do well against condi specs but celestial let's you do easier bunkering/1v1 against power builds ALSO (ekhem spellbraker). It's just more optimal.. Friebrand has protection, blocks, more stability and invulnerability with makes celestial version of bunker build far more superior then season 1 tempest. The only thing better then firebrand on cele was,be and will be chrono.

The real question is...do condi necro build's will still be able to do their job at killing bunkers. If not say hi to season 1.

[Muchacho.2390]

@Chaith.8256 said:Celestial is coming back with less stats than 3stat Amulets: 4Stat Amulets: 3220 Stats. 3Stat Amulets: 3000 Stats. New Celestial: 2760 Stats, used to be 3360. The raw power increase is gone

Ehh i think your math is wrong. Celestral has 7 different stats (1. power 2. precision 3. ferocity 4. condition damage 5. vitality 6. toughness 7. healing power) and from the other tread we know it will be 460 per stat, which means it would be 460*7=3220.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Muchacho.2390 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Celestial is coming back with less stats than 3stat Amulets: 4Stat Amulets: 3220 Stats. 3Stat Amulets: 3000 Stats. New Celestial: 2760 Stats, used to be 3360. The raw power increase is gone

Ehh i think your math is wrong. Celestral has 7 different stats (1. power 2. precision 3. ferocity 4. condition damage 5. vitality 6. toughness 7. healing power) and from the other tread we know it will be 460 per stat, which means it would be 460*7=3220.

Was just about to comment that.

[Chaith.8256]

@Muchacho.2390 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Celestial is coming back with less stats than 3stat Amulets: 4Stat Amulets: 3220 Stats. 3Stat Amulets: 3000 Stats. New Celestial: 2760 Stats, used to be 3360. The raw power increase is gone

Ehh i think your math is wrong. Celestral has 7 different stats (1. power 2. precision 3. ferocity 4. condition damage 5. vitality 6. toughness 7. healing power) and from the other tread we know it will be 460 per stat, which means it would be 460*7=3220.

Yeah my bad i thought i remembered there being 6. So it's on the same playing field as 4stat amulets

[Muchacho.2390]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Muchacho.2390 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Celestial is coming back with less stats than 3stat Amulets: 4Stat Amulets: 3220 Stats. 3Stat Amulets: 3000 Stats. New Celestial: 2760 Stats, used to be 3360. The raw power increase is gone

Ehh i think your math is wrong. Celestral has 7 different stats (1. power 2. precision 3. ferocity 4. condition damage 5. vitality 6. toughness 7. healing power) and from the other tread we know it will be 460 per stat, which means it would be 460*7=3220.

Yeah my bad i thought i remembered there being 6. So it's on the same playing field as 4stat amulets

Yes it was 6 stats before they introduced the ferocity stat.

[Ario.8964]

Regardless of math, cele is a lot less powerful than it used to be and the old builds that used it don't exist anymore and would be terrible in this meta. It'll be interesting to see what specs decide to take up cele over their current loadout and what specs decide to keep what they have.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

@Ario.8964 said:Regardless of math, cele is a lot less powerful than it used to be and the old builds that used it don't exist anymore and would be terrible in this meta. It'll be interesting to see what specs decide to take up cele over their current loadout and what specs decide to keep what they have.

Each class should be able to make a powerful celestial build however nerfed celestial in the current meta might be too weak in general

[Ario.8964]

I think if cele were 500 each it may be just enough for strong builds to appear without being op but the 460 to me seems questionable as far as performance. Again, I'll have to wait and see how builds perform once cele comes in and see what I can craft as far as working specs go.