What if a sylvari was the canonical "Commander"?

[Maulclaw.4365]

Mild spoilers ahead.

I can't stress this enough: I'm not here to discuss whether or not a sylvari should or shouldn't be the "canonical" commander... My goal is to see what people think in regards to the Personal Story's choices if this was the case.

So let's picture that ArenaNet acknowledged the fact that a sylvari character is the Commander... Which one of the choices would fit better into this "heroic" character?

The first chapter, Following The Dream, has the White Stag, the Green Knight and the Shield of the Moon. The first follows the story of a pure white stag, and it's the character's quest to find it; however, another sylvari is after it out and it turns out that the Nightmare Court also wants it for their own evil purposes. The second is about an invincible knight who wears a mighty armor, willing to challenge anyone for the sake of glory and power. The last one is about a sylvari who tries to claim his love who was seduced to join the Nightmare Court, which may lead to two different, and yet grim outcomes.

The second chapter, The Teachings of Ventari, has three of Ventari's teachings. Act with wisdom, but act leads to a story about trust and a special mirror; it already mentions Orr and the consequences that it may bring to Tyria. "All things have a right to grow" is a story about two twin sylvari who awakened from the same pod; it explores just how different they are and the consequences that a hylek poison might have if successful. "Where life goes, so too, should you" it's the most infamous ones, related to the strange sylvari of the name Malyck who was supposedly born from another Pale Tree.

I also have to ask which Order would fit this character the most. I would like to say Whispers because Tybalt is such a nice character, but I don't see it working for a sylvari of this nature.

What are your thoughts?

[Holykitten.3064]

I think the whole point of the Personal Story up until I think step 60, is to show content of character. And that whichever route you took to become the commander was appropriate, whether you’re a sensitive flower, or a Meatoberfest going drunk Norn.So I’m saying that they all fit depending on the personality you’re going for.There has been one story scene that I know of where Anet acknowledged (showed their ideal) pact commander, they were not Sylvari.

[SpaceRaccoon.9684]

At the time a character makes the decision to join the Order of Whispers they haven't met Tybalt yet, so he can't really factor into the decision. They've only met with the Order representatives of their race, so a Sylvari would only have met with Cai, Branthyn, and Iowerth (of the Whispers, Vigil, and Priory respectively).

[costepj.5120]

I love the way a Sylvari commander is treated differently in HoT story; some really nice touches.

[Maulclaw.4365]

@SpaceRaccoon.9684 said:At the time a character makes the decision to join the Order of Whispers they haven't met Tybalt yet, so he can't really factor into the decision. They've only met with the Order representatives of their race, so a Sylvari would only have met with Cai, Branthyn, and Iowerth (of the Whispers, Vigil, and Priory respectively).

I'm afraid you missed the point...

[Danikat.8537]

Well the whole of the Personal Story is designed so that it can fit together in any order and any combination fits as a 'canonical' backstory for the Commander. (Of those permitted obviously, I don't mean it'd fit if you did the sylvari level 10 story and the norn level 20 one then the charr level 30 etc.)

So any of the above is fine.

But my personal thoughts, if I was making a new sylvari now and wanted the 'best' fit for a canon Commander:

• Any level 10 story works. The Green Knight might be a good choice because Occam the Smith has a minor role in the story later on, or Shield of the Moon because if you're going to have to make a lot of tough choices you may as well get stuck into it. (Yes I know you as a player don't get much actual choice, but your character does.)
• I'd avoid 'Where Life Goes...'. Yes it's often considered the most interesting story but it would bother me that my character doesn't mention it or make any effort to find or contact Malyck during HoT.
• I'd probably pick Act with Wisdom because Carys and Tegwin can reappear later (depending on which stories you choose) and the opportunity to see Orr first hand (if you pick to ask Trahearne for help) acts as a good motive for your character later on.
• I'd join the Vigil because the sylvari seem more driven than most races to fight the dragons head-on (probably the Pale Tree's influence) and the Vigil is the only order intending to do that from the beginning, the others have to be persuaded that fighting the dragons is the only option.

But it would also be influenced by the character's personality. For example one of my sylvari would never join the Vigil because she doesn't like the military structure, she prefers the Order of Whispers because their agents have more freedom to act on their own judgement. And also to some extent my personal preference - I rarely pick The Green Knight just because I don't enjoy playing it as much as the others and I quite like the White Stag storyline.

[Ardid.7203]

There are many threads were they show many "choices" the commander takes after the second season make more sense if the character actually IS a sylvari.

[SpaceRaccoon.9684]

@"RandomWolf.3986" said:

@"SpaceRaccoon.9684" said:At the time a character makes the decision to join the Order of Whispers they haven't met Tybalt yet, so he can't really factor into the decision. They've only met with the Order representatives of their race, so a Sylvari would only have met with Cai, Branthyn, and Iowerth (of the Whispers, Vigil, and Priory respectively).

I'm afraid you missed the point...

Well maybe. What I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense from a storytelling perspective to have a character make decisions based on information they don't have. If you want to justify why this Sylvari character would canonically join the order of whispers you can't say "because Tybalt".

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Ardid.7203" said:There are many threads were they show many "choices" the commander takes after the second season make more sense if the character actually IS a sylvari.On the other hand, one major PoF story step doesn't make any sense for a sylvari commmander. Or any non-human one, for that matter.

[Dante.1763]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Ardid.7203" said:There are many threads were they show many "choices" the commander takes after the second season make more sense if the character actually IS a sylvari.On the other hand, one major PoF story step doesn't make any sense for a sylvari commmander. Or any non-human one, for that matter.

Up until PoF it made the most sense to me that the Commander was a sylvari, there is just so much that gets offered to them, extra dialogue options, meeting characters that are important later on, the Hot expansion which featured a bunch of stuff if you were a sylvari, might be missing something..

But Pof moved away a little bit from that.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Ardid.7203" said:There are many threads were they show many "choices" the commander takes after the second season make more sense if the character actually IS a sylvari.On the other hand, one major PoF story step doesn't make any sense for a sylvari commmander. Or any non-human one, for that matter.

Up until PoF it made the most sense to me that the Commander was a sylvari, there is just so much that gets offered to them, extra dialogue options, meeting characters that are important later on, the Hot expansion which featured a bunch of stuff if you were a sylvari, might be missing something..

But Pof moved away a little bit from that.

It's not a case of just "missing stuff" i am refering to. I am speaking specifically of the "The Departed" story step, which really should not affect every race the same way. Not even in GW1, where human gods were vastly more powerful and were, in fact, the gods of the world and not merely human gods, as in GW2.

Just as HoT was Sylvari-centric, PoF was human-centric, but in this case, this affected not only the little things and the feel of the story, but influenced the storyline to the point that some steps just do not make sense if you are not a human.

This has started to a lesser degree in LS3, by the way - the Commander's reaction to Lazarus makes sense practically only if you're a human or a charr. Other three races should really have no hard feelings about the Mursaat. Similarily with the later reveal - it shouldn't really affect non-human races that much. And especially the Charr reaction to that reveal should have been wildly different than the one we got.

(trying to put no spoilers here, but it's really hard to discuss things without major storyline spoiling :P)

[Holykitten.3064]

@"Ardid.7203" said:There are many threads were they show many "choices" the commander takes after the second season make more sense if the character actually IS a sylvari.

I disagree. HoT may have 1 or 2 unique lines of dialogue for Sylvari but the story makes more sense if you are any other race, and best for human, and you get a better play through by not only being a Human character, but to take a friend who plays a Sylvari through with you. If you’ve not done this you really should to experience Mordremoth corrupt your friend as you play through and get closer to him. I ran this story with my husband (Norn) while I played a Sylvari Necro, it was really surprising when I was corrupted, but a nice touch to the co-op of the story. In solo play of it with Sylvari, I think you still get corruption, but the reaction from NPCs are dull.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

@Astralporing.1957 said:This has started to a lesser degree in LS3, by the way - the Commander's reaction to Lazarus makes sense practically only if you're a human or a charr. Other three races should really have no hard feelings about the Mursaat. Similarily with the later reveal - it shouldn't really affect non-human races that much. And especially the Charr reaction to that reveal should have been wildly different than the one we got.

And don't forget the other thing that attracted some comment in LS3, that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a non-human, regardless of race, to

! join the Shining Blade, or even to see much of their secrets.

[Maulclaw.4365]

@Danikat.8537 said:Well the whole of the Personal Story is designed so that it can fit together in any order and any combination fits as a 'canonical' backstory for the Commander. (Of those permitted obviously, I don't mean it'd fit if you did the sylvari level 10 story and the norn level 20 one then the charr level 30 etc.)

So any of the above is fine.

But my personal thoughts, if I was making a new sylvari now and wanted the 'best' fit for a canon Commander:

• Any level 10 story works. The Green Knight might be a good choice because Occam the Smith has a minor role in the story later on, or Shield of the Moon because if you're going to have to make a lot of tough choices you may as well get stuck into it. (Yes I know you as a player don't get much actual choice, but your character does.)
• I'd avoid 'Where Life Goes...'. Yes it's often considered the most interesting story but it would bother me that my character doesn't mention it or make any effort to find or contact Malyck during HoT.
• I'd probably pick Act with Wisdom because Carys and Tegwin can reappear later (depending on which stories you choose) and the opportunity to see Orr first hand (if you pick to ask Trahearne for help) acts as a good motive for your character later on.
• I'd join the Vigil because the sylvari seem more driven than most races to fight the dragons head-on (probably the Pale Tree's influence) and the Vigil is the only order intending to do that from the beginning, the others have to be persuaded that fighting the dragons is the only option.

But it would also be influenced by the character's personality. For example one of my sylvari would never join the Vigil because she doesn't like the military structure, she prefers the Order of Whispers because their agents have more freedom to act on their own judgement. And also to some extent my personal preference - I rarely pick The Green Knight just because I don't enjoy playing it as much as the others and I quite like the White Stag storyline.

Thanks. That's the type of comment I was looking for!

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I like how they adapt the story to each race commander however I think the definitive commander should be a Norn female. Here's my reasoning behind that. Humans generally don't trust Charr and visa versa. Other species know Asura are out for themselves and while everyone does work with them; to say they trust the Asura is really stretching it. The Sylvari have their own reasons not to trust the Asura. Initially the Sylvari were seen as child like but treated with caution; there has been enough bad sylvari to make other races leery of them. Given that it was later found out they were created by Mordremoth, caution when dealing with them was justified.

The Norn is is the only ones that no one really has a general conflict with as a race. Of the Norn; the females seem to be less likely to become a chaotic factor during a fight and more likely to think things through. While it's not true of all female Norn, it was for Eir Stegalkin. She was the leader of Destiny's Edge. A Norn female is her natural successor.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:This has started to a lesser degree in LS3, by the way - the Commander's reaction to Lazarus makes sense practically only if you're a human or a charr. Other three races should really have no hard feelings about the Mursaat. Similarily with the later reveal - it shouldn't really affect non-human races that much. And especially the Charr reaction to that reveal should have been wildly different than the one we got.

And don't forget the other thing that attracted some comment in LS3, that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a non-human, regardless of race, to

! join the Shining Blade, or even to see much of their secrets.

Oh, please, i was desperately trying to forget that part :/Although you're right, of course. That one not only didn't have much sense, it was downright stupid for any non-human commander to do.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:This has started to a lesser degree in LS3, by the way - the Commander's reaction to Lazarus makes sense practically only if you're a human or a charr. Other three races should really have no hard feelings about the Mursaat. Similarily with the later reveal - it shouldn't really affect non-human races that much. And especially the Charr reaction to that reveal should have been wildly different than the one we got.

And don't forget the other thing that attracted some comment in LS3, that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a non-human, regardless of race, to

! join the Shining Blade, or even to see much of their secrets.

Oh, please, i was desperately trying to forget that part :/Although you're right, of course. That one not only didn't have much sense, it was downright stupid for any non-human commander to do.

Sorry. I thought it was worth mentioning since it attracted some (negative) comment at the time. I also think it doesn't make much sense for

! them to even invite a non-human commander to join.

[Maulclaw.4365]

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:I like how they adapt the story to each race commander however I think the definitive commander should be a Norn female. Here's my reasoning behind that. Humans generally don't trust Charr and visa versa. Other species know Asura are out for themselves and while everyone does work with them; to say they trust the Asura is really stretching it. The Sylvari have their own reasons not to trust the Asura. Initially the Sylvari were seen as child like but treated with caution; there has been enough bad sylvari to make other races leery of them. Given that it was later found out they were created by Mordremoth, caution when dealing with them was justified.

The Norn is is the only ones that no one really has a general conflict with as a race. Of the Norn; the females seem to be less likely to become a chaotic factor during a fight and more likely to think things through. While it's not true of all female Norn, it was for Eir Stegalkin. She was the leader of Destiny's Edge. A Norn female is her natural successor.

You saw all of those promo screenshots and the original launch trailer, didn't you?

[DeanBB.4268]

I guess I don't really understand this post/question. Every character that plays through the story, including every choice which is made, is the "canonical commander." How is it not? What other choice is there, other than not playing the story?

[Ardid.7203]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Ardid.7203" said:There are many threads were they show many "choices" the commander takes after the second season make more sense if the character actually IS a sylvari.On the other hand, one major PoF story step doesn't make any sense for a sylvari commmander. Or any non-human one, for that matter.

Up until PoF it made the most sense to me that the Commander was a sylvari, there is just so much that gets offered to them, extra dialogue options, meeting characters that are important later on, the Hot expansion which featured a bunch of stuff if you were a sylvari, might be missing something..

But Pof moved away a little bit from that.

It's not a case of just "missing stuff" i am refering to. I am speaking specifically of the "The Departed" story step, which really should not affect every race the same way. Not even in GW1, where human gods were vastly more powerful and were, in fact, the gods of the world and not merely

human

gods, as in GW2.

Just as HoT was Sylvari-centric, PoF was human-centric, but in this case, this affected not only the little things and the feel of the story, but influenced the storyline to the point that some steps just do not make sense if you are not a human.

This has started to a lesser degree in LS3, by the way - the Commander's reaction to Lazarus makes sense practically only if you're a human or a charr. Other three races should really have no hard feelings about the Mursaat. Similarily with the later reveal - it shouldn't really affect non-human races that much. And especially the Charr reaction to that reveal should have been wildly different than the one we got.

(trying to put no spoilers here, but it's really hard to discuss things without major storyline spoiling :P)

I fully agree whit the excessive humanization of the central character. I was just pointing there were some postulates about the sylvari commander being the "canonical" previously. IMO the Shinning Blade and Balthazar story threads do really little sense for any one that is not human (And even for some less traditional humans who may prefer to think by themselves...). As an Asura main player, the human centrism of the game is felt continuously, not only in the story.

[Maulclaw.4365]

@"DeanBB.4268" said:I guess I don't really understand this post/question. Every character that plays through the story, including every choice which is made, is the "canonical commander." How is it not? What other choice is there, other than not playing the story?

sigh

[Healix.5819]

@"DeanBB.4268" said:I guess I don't really understand this post/question. Every character that plays through the story, including every choice which is made, is the "canonical commander." How is it not? What other choice is there, other than not playing the story?

That's only your perspective of the story; there's only 1 official commander along with the choices they made. If GW3 was looking back at GW2 and had a statue of the first commander of the Pact, it'd probably be a female Norn, which is what ArenaNet has shown in

and the

recap for example.

[Eruaph.4039]

@"Healix.5819" said:That's only your perspective of the story; there's only 1 official commander along with the choices they made. If GW3 was looking back at GW2 and had a statue of the first commander of the Pact, it'd probably be a female Norn, which is what ArenaNet has shown in

and the

recap for example.

There is an assumption there is only one commander. For playing the game and getting the whole story you are generally only considered to be playing as one character. But I almost think it makes more sense that there is more than one commander, and that as more stories build about the doings of the commander more confusion about who he/she is arise.

Why is there only one second in command of the pact? It would make much more sense if there were several people. Who deals with the other potential catastrophes that happen before becoming the commander? When you look at how characters in GW1 have been dealt with it has always been a group of heroes (Not even the actual hero characters such as Koss and a leader). So if there is ever a GW3 that looks at the canon of GW2 I suspect it will probably talk about a small group.