No pet swapping in beast mode (still) ruins Soulbeast for me.

[InsaneQR.7412]

If they have technical issues with swapping pets while beastmode they could atleast consider some tweaks for traits. We want traits that have an effect when swappong in- AND outside. Like stunbreak while getting in and while getting out. Or copying boons to pet when leaving and taking them over when merging etc.In addition Beastmode should have no real CD for practical reasons. So we could swap into pet modes easier.

[mistsim.2748]

100% required. in this state, there is little point in trying to use both pets. you can't use the second one reactively, maybe just useful for prolonged engagements. You have to swap out of BM, swap pets, wait 8 more seconds, then swap back.

[Sedlina.1097]

@Arheundel.6451 said:Are you suggesting that eles camping fire should be rewarded somehow?

you are comparing apples to oranges. elemental attunements are their equivalent to swapping weapons. If you want to make a fitting comparison then at least stick with the same mechanicsSwapping pets means 3 different F skills for the soulbeast. Not 15 entire additional weapon abilitiest to burn through.

Soulbeast adds a layer of difficulty to rangers for certain, choosing the right pet at the right time is what is expected from the player, being able to swap in and out of soulbeast mode is what should divide the good from the bad.

The question is what is your point here? Soulbeast is not changing the core mechanic of pets or pet swapsWe still only have 2 pets. Nothing is changing here.We still got a cooldown on swapping pets. Again no change here.

A good suggestion would be to add an effect that help players when demerging, pet swap while in BM would only create balance problems and with it unnecessary nerfs to dmg and utility, once you remove the risk...there is no need for such a high reward no?!

What risk are you talking about?If you bring up statements that it would be too powerful to swap directly to the second pet's soulbeast mode without having to demerge, swap, wait, merge - then at least bring up an example to support your point

You sound as if you consider soulbeast mode as a 100 % gain with no sacrifice mechanic. The high reward that you imply also means that the pet as an entity is not active while the ranger is in soulbeast mode.As a reminder - the entire ranger profession is balanced around the permanent existance of the pet. The base power and scaling coefficient of ranger abilities is lower because the pet is a permanent addition to the ranger. If the ranger sacrifices the pet for F abilities it is not a pure gain. camping beasmode is not a pure gain

Thee point of soulbeast is to allow the player to merge with a pet when the situation requires it..not to change ranger into a demi-warrior

I would strongly suggest for you to watch interviews about the concept of elite specilizations. The entire point of specializations is the option to change a profession and the playstyle into something else.

[Billy.1879]

I think from as far as I can tell from playing so far as a condi ranger camping soulbeast seems better than swapping in and out to use the pet.

As far as game play goes at you may not see it now this could be one of the best things to ever happen to a ranger, it no longer means we are dependent on a pet and we are dependent on only ourselves. As it stands we have an extremely powerful condi build for PvE and as far as I can tell power soulbeast has seemed pretty nice for pvp and wvw.

Using a pet is still extremely useful in solo pve content even more so than camping soulbeast (because you know the pet tanks for you) and then having the option to completely remove the thing that has been holding rangers down from different game modes and be effective on our own is a breath of fresh air. Camping soulbeast in any group content seems better than using a pet and as far as I see it this is not a problem at all, it's a gift.

Giving us the ability to pet swap would completely be bonkers and make rangers so strong it would be stupid. I don't think I'd ever die again If I could camp soulbeast with a lynx then swap to a jacaranda to full heal myself and my allies if anything got a little hairy.

I do also not want the game style to pan out being stay in soulbeast to burn abilities then go back to the pet as we'd end up having an over complicated rotation.

What we have now is seems powerful and functional and asking to have pet swap is extremely overkill.

[Loopgru.1026]

@Billy.1879 said:As it stands we have an extremely powerful condi build for PvE and as far as I can tell power soulbeast has seemed pretty nice for pvp and wvw.

From a min/mix pve DPS perspective, yes, Soulbeast is better, albeit nowhere near the level of firebrand or Weaver.

That said, "seemed pretty nice" is pretty thin to go on for PvP and WvW. GS Soulbeast was fun during the preview weekend due to the AOO on Maul applying to itself and giving huge numbers, but that was since nerfed into Oblivion. With that gone, I think Soulbeast actually offers significantly less to a power build in either mode than a classic ranger with beast mastery or druid.

[Lain.5179]

+111111 OP

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Sedlina.1097 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Are you suggesting that eles camping fire should be rewarded somehow?

you are comparing apples to oranges. elemental attunements are their equivalent to swapping weapons. If you want to make a fitting comparison then at least stick with the same mechanicsSwapping pets means 3 different F skills for the soulbeast. Not 15 entire additional weapon abilitiest to burn through.

Soulbeast adds a layer of difficulty to rangers for certain, choosing the right pet at the right time is what is expected from the player, being able to swap in and out of soulbeast mode is what should divide the good from the bad.

The question is what is your point here? Soulbeast is not changing the core mechanic of pets or pet swapsWe still only have 2 pets. Nothing is changing here.We still got a cooldown on swapping pets. Again no change here.

A good suggestion would be to add an effect that help players when demerging, pet swap while in BM would only create balance problems and with it unnecessary nerfs to dmg and utility, once you remove the risk...there is no need for such a high reward no?!

What risk are you talking about?If you bring up statements that it would be too powerful to swap directly to the second pet's soulbeast mode without having to demerge, swap, wait, merge - then at least bring up an example to support your point

You sound as if you consider soulbeast mode as a 100 % gain with no sacrifice mechanic. The high reward that you imply also means that the pet as an entity is not active while the ranger is in soulbeast mode.As a reminder - the entire ranger profession is balanced around the permanent existance of the pet. The base power and scaling coefficient of ranger abilities is lower because the pet is a permanent addition to the ranger. If the ranger sacrifices the pet for F abilities it is not a pure gain.

camping beasmode is not a pure gain

Thee point of soulbeast is to allow the player to merge with a pet when the situation requires it..not to change ranger into a demi-warrior

I would strongly suggest for you to watch interviews about the concept of elite specilizations. The entire point of specializations

is

the option to change a profession and the playstyle into something else.

Nailed it.

You are actually weaker dmg wise in SBM(Soulbeastmode). You have a ton more utility woth gap closers, pulls, stuns etc. But to get the full gain of the utility we need the petswap in SBM or atleast no CD on SBM if they cannot make it happen on a technical level.If you want dmg or the active skill of the pet you have to swap out of SBM. If you need the utility you have to merge. If you need the other pet utility during the fight you need to swap pets. Demerging and waiting for remerging if you need a gap closer, CC or stunbreak can kill you.

Ranger mode is dmg mode and will always be, SBM is utility mode and needs the utility and versatility it presents.

[Billy.1879]

dont you do more damage with out a pet?

[Alchimist.4738]

The issue with pet swapping in beastmode is no one will ever use the pet anymore, I’d rather see the pet’s archetype effect (the statistic increase) remain for 5 seconds after we leave beastmode. On the other hand I also agree that giving pet swapping in beastmode would bring more flexibility to the spec.

[psizone.8437]

@Billy.1879 said:dont you do more damage with out a pet?

The player does, but you lose overall dps since the merge doesn't make up for the loss of the pet damage.

It's less of an issue against players in WvW since the pets can't reliable hit a target anyway.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Iniak.9815 said:I read the forums often but very rarely post. I logged in to post this exact sentiment.

Pet swapping while in soulbeast mode is 100% needed and necessary

for this to feel like a fully fleshed out specialization.

You're not supposed to camp beastmode

Well, they need to make changes then because it's counter-intuitive not to.

[Sedlina.1097]

@Billy.1879 said:dont you do more damage with out a pet?

since Psizone already answered the power damage related part I'll add the condition dmg explanation

with condition damage the answer to your question is - yes.The pet's power damage is a static value that keeps the weapon power scaling low for the ranger. But as condi soulbeast you have the bonus of getting more sources to apply conditions to your target. This works in your favor as the additional conditions scale with your equipment - while pet condition damage is static.

The big power dps benchmarks come from abusing the rock gazelle. Which is a boarderline broken pet both as core pet and for soulbeast modethe scaling is off the charts on this one - my guess is a missing comma for the power scaling. Those 32-80k charges are just silly

[Cyric.7813]

Agreed with topic starter.

Pet swapping in beastmode is needed: too much cd from leaving beastmode, 15-20 sec to change pet... Lets do common cd for merged and unmerged and it should be fine.

P.S. Sry my English.

[samanosuke asakura.6240]

battles or fast past guildwars and i too agree that pet camping is bad.but soulbeast is not fluid how am i suppose to roam with with this?i have been roaming condi spec the last 4 hours in wvw and soulbeast needs that changes soulbeast isn't fluid enough its clunky am going and 24/7 to not camp but at critical time soulbeast falls short. i want to use def ability on support pet wait i can't because i have to wait 6 more sec pls remove cd or makes pet swap possible.a couple sec in a fight can decide the outcome.

p.s : worst case scenario back to druid lads

[Dojo.1867]

I can see Arenanet trying to discourage pet camping but the current implementation actually makes it worse.

People wont even bother leaving beast form now because it is such a pain to use. They rather camp a single pet now.

[Cufufalating.8479]

@Alchimist.4738 said:The issue with pet swapping in beastmode is no one will ever use the pet anymore, I’d rather see the pet’s archetype effect (the statistic increase) remain for 5 seconds after we leave beastmode. On the other hand I also agree that giving pet swapping in beastmode would bring more flexibility to the spec.

Doesn't that say all you really need to know about our pets, though? If given a pure choice they are worried no one will use pets anymore then perhaps they need to get round to actually addressing the core problems we've had with pets for years.

[Alchimist.4738]

The issue with Beastmode is that there aren’t any incentive to unmerge with your pet, sure you could let your pet rotate with its skills (supposing the AI works), or unmerging to merge with your secondary pet, but losing the pet’s archetype for 10s. is too much of a loss, which means you’ll stay in Beastmode for 80% of the time if not 100%, therefore you’ll also use the same pet for most of the time.

I think giving pet swapping in Beastmode is a nice idea, it allows for more skills to come in play in your rotation, more easily at least, because right now if you want the skills from your secondary pet you need to unmerge, pet swap, wait for 10s., and then merge with the new pet, it’s tedious and not practical at all in PvP modes, here is an example. I play with Rock Gazelle as my primary pet, for Ferocious, Worldly Impact, and Charge, and Blue Moa as my secondary, for Harmonic Cry and Unflinching Fortitude, so here I have a dps pet and a pet to have survivability, but when I need to use my secondary pet in urgency I simply can’t because I have to wait for 10s., which signs my death warrant in sPvP. I don’t think having access to survivability skills easily would be too powerful, to start with because Soulbeast lacks a lot in that regard, particularly compared to Druid which has an easy access to survivability skills with Celestial Avatar, without sacrificing the pet I must say, and also because other classes have already easy access to survivability skills such as Firebrand with Resolution, amongst others.

However giving pet swapping in Beastmode doesn’t fix the fact that you don’t want to unmerge, in fact it worsen the issue, and so it’s not satisfactory. I think fixing the pet swapping condition damage scaling bug would really push people to merge/unmerge, at least for condition builds, power builds however might be better off remaining in Beastmode.

But yes pet swapping in Beastmode might be the best option to make Beastmode less frustrating to play with.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Iniak.9815 said:I read the forums often but very rarely post. I logged in to post this exact sentiment.

Pet swapping while in soulbeast mode is 100% needed and necessary

for this to feel like a fully fleshed out specialization.

You're not supposed to camp beastmode

Well, they need to make changes then because it's counter-intuitive not to.

I don't disagree with this at all!But to pet swap in BM ( which would not solve anything but rather make things worst) is not the solution, the perfect solution would be a defensive buff upon exiting BM that last 5s

[Loopgru.1026]

Honestly, the fantasy in my end is for SB to be more akin to WoW's old Feral druid implementation: A flexible multi role brawler that can adapt on the fly to changing situations, from mDPS to Tank to mobility, all instantly albeit with a cooldown between shifts.

As it stands, this is a step in the opposite direction- locking more options behind heavily restrictive cooldowns.

[mistsim.2748]

@Alchimist.4738 said:The issue with Beastmode is that there aren’t any incentive to unmerge with your pet

Unstoppable Union on its own is incentive enough. if you go with this trait, you shouldnt sit in BM.that being said, the more i play SB, the more I want pet swapping in BM. at this time, 10s is way too long to swap pets for BM utility.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Iniak.9815 said:I read the forums often but very rarely post. I logged in to post this exact sentiment.

Pet swapping while in soulbeast mode is 100% needed and necessary

for this to feel like a fully fleshed out specialization.

You're not supposed to camp beastmode

Well, they need to make changes then because it's counter-intuitive not to.

I don't disagree with this at all!But to pet swap in BM

( which would not solve anything but rather make things worst)

is not the solution, the perfect solution would be a defensive buff upon exiting BM

that last 5s

Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevant because it's a fact.

1. Every time you meld, you lose the boons your pet has, unless you trait for it, using two trait lines to make it effective.
2. Every time you un-meld, your pet starts with zero boons.
3. Every time you un-meld, your pet appears at your location, not your foes and needs to path back to it.
4. Every time you un-meld, you have to wait 10s before you can meld again.
5. When you un-meld, you lose the bonus stats you gain while melded.
6. While you are melded, you cannot access your pet-swap traits without un-melding and then waiting the 10s to re-meld.
7. When you meld, your pet's condition damage drops to zero.

[Kilrik.6320]

It would not be my favorite choice, nor would it resolve the repositioning, reactive AI issues, or even boon loss, but I would be more inclined to have a positive view of Soulbeast if there was zero cooldown for beastmode. I could see it functioning like an engineer's kit. If you are in beastmode, you can exit, switch pets and re-enter or not at your whim. This would would mean maybe 1-3 seconds between beastmode forms? It's not the most fluid, but it would allow for petswap triggers and it would vastly make the spec more fluid (not ideal) and the mechanics are basically already there since it's like an engie kit.

Personally speaking I could see it vastly improve the spec with just the one pet. Ex. Smokescale- You're merged 3 abilities on cooldown, un-merge smoke field- stealth, re-merge re-position, reactivate 3 abilities, or weapon attack. Similarly it could be done with a swap to Jacaranda from Smokescale. Offense using smoke, unmerge swap to Jacaranda, meld heal un-meld, attack a bit swap back to Smoke. The only cooldown would/should be the petswap in this case. I can accept the dmg loss as listed above if there could be more fluidity to the class spec.

[Alchimist.4738]

@Kilrik.6320 said:It would not be my favorite choice, nor would it resolve the repositioning, reactive AI issues, or even boon loss, but I would be more inclined to have a positive view of Soulbeast if there was zero cooldown for beastmode. I could see it functioning like an engineer's kit. If you are in beastmode, you can exit, switch pets and re-enter or not at your whim. This would would mean maybe 1-3 seconds between beastmode forms? It's not the most fluid, but it would allow for petswap triggers and it would vastly make the spec more fluid (not ideal) and the mechanics are basically already there since it's like an engie kit.

Personally speaking I could see it vastly improve the spec with just the one pet. Ex. Smokescale- You're merged 3 abilities on cooldown, un-merge smoke field- stealth, re-merge re-position, reactivate 3 abilities, or weapon attack. Similarly it could be done with a swap to Jacaranda from Smokescale. Offense using smoke, unmerge swap to Jacaranda, meld heal un-meld, attack a bit swap back to Smoke. The only cooldown would/should be the petswap in this case. I can accept the dmg loss as listed above if there could be more fluidity to the class spec.

The issue is going into beastmode heals the pet to full life, and I don’t know if it’s intended or the result of the way it has been coded, besides if you want to have access to the beatsmode skills of your secondary pet you’ll still have to press a lot of buttons (go out of beastmode (f5), pet swap (f4), go in beastmode (f5)) to achieve one thing, pet swapping (f4).

The more I play in sPvP the more I think beastmode should have a pet swap, a pet swap sharing the same cooldown as the one outside of beastmode. However in PvE pet swapping in beastmode will certainly lead to even more damage on condtion soulbeast, which is already quite a strong build, so it’s not entirely satisfying.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Iniak.9815 said:I read the forums often but very rarely post. I logged in to post this exact sentiment.

Pet swapping while in soulbeast mode is 100% needed and necessary

for this to feel like a fully fleshed out specialization.

You're not supposed to camp beastmode

Well, they need to make changes then because it's counter-intuitive not to.

I don't disagree with this at all!But to pet swap in BM

( which would not solve anything but rather make things worst)

is not the solution, the perfect solution would be a defensive buff upon exiting BM

that last 5s

Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevant because it's a fact.

1. Every time you meld, you lose the boons your pet has, unless you trait for it, using two trait lines to make it effective.
2. Every time you un-meld, your pet starts with zero boons.
3. Every time you un-meld, your pet appears at your location, not your foes and needs to path back to it.
4. Every time you un-meld, you have to wait 10s before you can meld again.
5. When you un-meld, you lose the bonus stats you gain while melded.
6. While you are melded, you cannot access your pet-swap traits without un-melding and then waiting the 10s to re-meld.
7. When you meld, your pet's condition damage drops to zero.

1. It's a fact that not everybody is having the same issues that you or others are having
2. Soulbeast is a high risk - high reward spec, whether the reward is high enough...it's a matter of opinions
3. Druid is still there to be played for those who dislike Soulbeast
4. Elites are not supposed to be upgrades over the previous ones, if many were expecting a Druid 2.0 with no pet...sorry

P.S I'd be great if somebody would show me in game what issues he's having because personally I'm not having those problems

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Iniak.9815 said:I read the forums often but very rarely post. I logged in to post this exact sentiment.

Pet swapping while in soulbeast mode is 100% needed and necessary

for this to feel like a fully fleshed out specialization.

You're not supposed to camp beastmode

Well, they need to make changes then because it's counter-intuitive not to.

I don't disagree with this at all!But to pet swap in BM

( which would not solve anything but rather make things worst)

is not the solution, the perfect solution would be a defensive buff upon exiting BM

that last 5s

Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevant because it's a fact.

1. Every time you meld, you lose the boons your pet has, unless you trait for it, using two trait lines to make it effective.
2. Every time you un-meld, your pet starts with zero boons.
3. Every time you un-meld, your pet appears at your location, not your foes and needs to path back to it.
4. Every time you un-meld, you have to wait 10s before you can meld again.
5. When you un-meld, you lose the bonus stats you gain while melded.
6. While you are melded, you cannot access your pet-swap traits without un-melding and then waiting the 10s to re-meld.
7. When you meld, your pet's condition damage drops to zero.

1. It's a fact that not everybody is having the same issues that you or others are having
2. Soulbeast is a high risk - high reward spec, whether the reward is high enough...it's a matter of opinions
3. Druid is still there to be played for those who dislike Soulbeast
4. Elites are not supposed to be upgrades over the previous ones, if many were expecting a Druid 2.0 with no pet...sorry

P.S I'd be great if somebody would show me in game what issues he's having because personally I'm not having those problems

You are having those issues because they are class issues, not player issues. They occur for everyone who plays it.