No pet swapping in beast mode (still) ruins Soulbeast for me.

[anduriell.6280]

Ok guys let's stop it there

We (whom don't like the CD) don't want to have the horrible mechanic at all. I don't like to have to wait 10 (or 5) seconds to get back my movement speed when i dismount or get in the water. Not that i think we could have an stun break every 5 seconds (with the trait). Also all the WvW and pvp reasons as i think those are pretty obvious.

If Anet can't integrate the pet swap while in beast mode then the best solution would be to put the cooldown after merging.

Which means, you are merged you need to swap pet, you leave beastmode, swap pets, and merge again. All done very fast. And then you get the 10 secs CD to be able to leave best mode. Which should not disrupt our game play like it does now.

I don't think the trait Eternal Bond would be affected by this as it triggers when you are downed (you lose all boons when the trait triggers).

I think that would be the sensible solution.

[Talonblaze.3175]

Easily accessible pet swapping is definitely a requirement. Either with BM having no CD and rework the traits so its not broken or simply have it functionally in there when melded (ideal).

I can see a reason for both sides as to why they do or don't want to camp beast mode, however the swapping aspect is a boon for everyone involved.Those who enjoy the solo-meld play can utilize switching between stat types or BM skills rather easily and back and forth when desired. That way they don't feel locked out of their playstyle and don't have to unmeld, sit and watch the pet for 10 seconds before they get what they want.

However, those who enjoy the dancing in and out also get an advantage from this.Not only do you get the same benefits as above with immediate stat swaps and skill usage; you also get quick easy access to your other pet without needing to leave BM either and with likely only a small tell for the enemy to even know it happens.This provides tactical play since the moment you leave, its now your 2nd pet and you get to unleash the fury there on unsuspecting foes who might be close.It makes your opponent pay attention to your melds alot more when they have to check what they might be dealing with once you leave the meld.Can lead to some very deadly combinations if done right.

Either way, melded pet swapping is a win-win.But as of current, the pet traits between core ranger and SB don't work well enough to merit this clunkiness unlike other classes.

[Adenin.5973]

If there are technical issues with allowing petswap in beastmode, then just let petswapping outside of BM reset our BM.

[kharmin.7683]

For me, a casual PvE player, it's more about immersion than stats. Personally I don't want pet swapping in Beastmode. From a "realistic" fantasy point, my character ought to have to unmerge to summon a different (secondary) pet. Having said that, I fully support the lower CD for merging in/out of Beastmode. I find that to be a sensible and fair compromise.

Again, just my thoughts/opinions on the matter. And my vote, I suppose.

[psizone.8437]

@kharmin.7683 said:For me, a casual PvE player, it's more about immersion than stats. Personally I don't want pet swapping in Beastmode. From a "realistic" fantasy point, my character ought to have to unmerge to summon a different (secondary) pet. Having said that, I fully support the lower CD for merging in/out of Beastmode. I find that to be a sensible and fair compromise.

Again, just my thoughts/opinions on the matter. And my vote, I suppose.

If you're only interested in it from an immersion point of view, couldn't you just not utilise the option to swap whilst in Beastmode?

[Wondrouswall.7169]

@psizone.8437 said:If you're only interested in it from an immersion point of view, couldn't you just not utilise the option to swap whilst in Beastmode?

That would make sense, though.

[kharmin.7683]

@psizone.8437 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:For me, a casual PvE player, it's more about immersion than stats. Personally I don't want pet swapping in Beastmode. From a "realistic" fantasy point, my character ought to have to unmerge to summon a different (secondary) pet. Having said that, I fully support the lower CD for merging in/out of Beastmode. I find that to be a sensible and fair compromise.

Again, just my thoughts/opinions on the matter. And my vote, I suppose.

If you're only interested in it from an immersion point of view, couldn't you just not utilise the option to swap whilst in Beastmode?

Absolutely. Didn't mean to infer that I was advocating against the suggestion. Would be interesting to know how it might affect balance in other modes of play.

[Durzlla.6295]

I feel like petswapping IN beast mode would result in beast mode getting nerfed since you suddenly don't know what kind of pet the ranger has stats from, what skills/F3 they have etc.

For balance purposes and thematic purposes I'd prefer to have it set so it's a 5s Cd for exiting beast mode and a 5s Cd on reentering beast mode that way there's still a 10s Cd on jumping in and popping the F3, but not as bad for camping beast mode, or even dancing in and out.

EDIT: and for the love of god give us at least one trait that has an effect that triggers upon unmerging.

[Krispera.5087]

@Durzlla.6295 said:I feel like petswapping IN beast mode would result in beast mode getting nerfed since you suddenly don't know what kind of pet the ranger has stats from, what skills/F3 they have etc.

I can understand, but some professions have hidden skills too and engineer tool belt skill is a good example of that. They could make a new telling animation on which type of pet we are in, but you can see that with the buff icon.

[psizone.8437]

@Durzlla.6295 said:I feel like petswapping IN beast mode would result in beast mode getting nerfed since you suddenly don't know what kind of pet the ranger has stats from, what skills/F3 they have etc.

Outside of the 3-4 consistently used pets it's already pretty difficult to know which stats the Ranger will be getting from their pet (the stat boost isn't all that game changing either) and the merged skills are currently not strong enough to warrant nerfs even if they allowed us to swap whilst merged.

A lot of the fun and challenge of fighting players comes from not knowing exactly what they're running and changing how you fight based on what appears.

[Cufufalating.8479]

@Krispera.5087 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:I feel like petswapping IN beast mode would result in beast mode getting nerfed since you suddenly don't know what kind of pet the ranger has stats from, what skills/F3 they have etc.

I can understand, but some professions have hidden skills too and engineer tool belt skill is a good example of that. They could make a new telling animation on which type of pet we are in, but you can see that with the buff icon.

I don't see it being a problem. It's no different to not knowing what 2nd weapon someone has at the start of the fight. When they start using it you'll know. Until then, why should you know?

[Terimac.5871]

I agree, pet swapping in beast mode is very much needed! And i think it's pretty easy for the devs to make such a change. Keep this thread alive so hopefully one of the devs may see it.

[Durzlla.6295]

@Cufufalating.8479 said:

@Krispera.5087 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:I feel like petswapping IN beast mode would result in beast mode getting nerfed since you suddenly don't know what kind of pet the ranger has stats from, what skills/F3 they have etc.

I can understand, but some professions have hidden skills too and engineer tool belt skill is a good example of that. They could make a new telling animation on which type of pet we are in, but you can see that with the buff icon.

I don't see it being a problem. It's no different to not knowing what 2nd weapon someone has at the start of the fight. When they start using it you'll know. Until then, why should you know?

The difference is when you swap from a LB to a GS, or from d/d to A/T etc I can very clearly see what your new weapons are and can react appropriately, same if you're running around with a bird and then swap into a pig.

However, if you add swap to beast mode there's no tell, no indication that I just went from a bird to a pig and you're about to be thrown on the floo for 3s.

[Zenith.7301]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Cufufalating.8479 said:

@Krispera.5087 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:I feel like petswapping IN beast mode would result in beast mode getting nerfed since you suddenly don't know what kind of pet the ranger has stats from, what skills/F3 they have etc.

I can understand, but some professions have hidden skills too and engineer tool belt skill is a good example of that. They could make a new telling animation on which type of pet we are in, but you can see that with the buff icon.

I don't see it being a problem. It's no different to not knowing what 2nd weapon someone has at the start of the fight. When they start using it you'll know. Until then, why should you know?

The difference is when you swap from a LB to a GS, or from d/d to A/T etc I can very clearly see what your new weapons are and can react appropriately, same if you're running around with a bird and then swap into a pig.

However, if you add swap to beast mode there's no tell, no indication that I just went from a bird to a pig and you're about to be thrown on the floo for 3s.

Except that animation to throw you into the floor still exists. A thief doesn't have an animation for steal based on weaponswap, yet you don't see them restricting his access to his class mechanic.

The ranger traitlines are littered with pet swap traits that now won't even work with an elite spec, especially in PvE where you don't want to exit the merge.

[Laki.7160]

Doesn't ruin it for me. In fact, if swapping pets either in or out of beastmode makes it in to the class as part of the expected rotation, I'd swap off of it and play something else.

As it stands, soulbeast is basically a way of adding a few new (and for the most part, interesting) skills to my rotation and removing the dependency on pet AI. That's perfect, to me. That's exactly what I wanted.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Durzlla.6295 said:I feel like petswapping IN beast mode would result in beast mode getting nerfed since you suddenly don't know what kind of pet the ranger has stats from, what skills/F3 they have etc.

For balance purposes and thematic purposes I'd prefer to have it set so it's a 5s Cd for exiting beast mode and a 5s Cd on reentering beast mode that way there's still a 10s Cd on jumping in and popping the F3, but not as bad for camping beast mode, or even dancing in and out.

EDIT: and for the love of god give us at least one trait that has an effect that triggers upon unmerging.

Well there is the big clue icon on the health bar to tell you what type of pet it is, which gives you the stats and 1 skill immediately.

[Hawken.7932]

@Laki.7160 said:Doesn't ruin it for me. In fact, if swapping pets either in or out of beastmode makes it in to the class as part of the expected rotation, I'd swap off of it and play something else.

As it stands, soulbeast is basically a way of adding a few new (and for the most part, interesting) skills to my rotation and removing the dependency on pet AI. That's perfect, to me. That's exactly what I wanted.

Doesn't ruin it for me either. I can very clearly see why the reasons behind the current implementation. Just for one, being able to full heal your pet by merging into it. My pets are basically invincible with this ability, as only the cooldown stands between me and that full heal. Having the pet tank harder content is a breeze.

Swapping in and out of beast mode has no incentive? Are people even playing soulbeast who say this?

[Einlanzer.1627]

Pretty ridiculous that this wasn't addressed following feedback from the beta weekend. It seems to me that it's only there to force rangers to still interact with their pets, which I don't understand the purpose of Anet devs trying to mandate for players. Seems really myopic.

[Einlanzer.1627]

@psizone.8437 said:

@Loopgru.1026 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:You're not supposed to camp beastmode

One dev made one comment about pet weaving being interesting and people act like it was written in the stars. Things change based on how players respond to it.

Remember, Reaper was "supposed" to be a power spec, too...

All these complaints against being able to swap are just "The dev said no, even though they didn't actually say no, and I don't want people to have options."

This cannot be emphasized enough. It's basically only really bad groupthinker types making this argument. Even if the devs did say no, it makes no sense for them to force it on players in this way. So they would basically need to be told they were wrong.

[zinkz.7045]

For PvP/WvW the mechanic is terrible, say you have a damage oriented pet and and a support one like the tree thing, you can't wait ten seconds for the cooldown to switch to the tree pet to use for example the f3 resistance skill when you are facing other players you will either be dead or not need it at that point, it is just poorly designed.

GIven Anet seem to like quick fixes then the easiest thing to do would be to make it so the cooldown happens when you enter beastmode for a pet (like Holosmith going into photon mode), that way there is still the cooldown, but you get a bit more flexibility so at least after 10 seconds you can then quickly leave beast mode, swap pet and enter beast mode for that pet.

[Despond.2174]

The whole dismount issue for me has really dissuaded me. I don't mind the merge mechanic but having auto demerge and cds every mount/dismount was an issue.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Kilrik.6320 said:It would not be my favorite choice, nor would it resolve the repositioning, reactive AI issues, or even boon loss, but I would be more inclined to have a positive view of Soulbeast if there was zero cooldown for beastmode. I could see it functioning like an engineer's kit. If you are in beastmode, you can exit, switch pets and re-enter or not at your whim. This would would mean maybe 1-3 seconds between beastmode forms? It's not the most fluid, but it would allow for petswap triggers and it would vastly make the spec more fluid (not ideal) and the mechanics are basically already there since it's like an engie kit.

Personally speaking I could see it vastly improve the spec with just the one pet. Ex. Smokescale- You're merged 3 abilities on cooldown, un-merge smoke field- stealth, re-merge re-position, reactivate 3 abilities, or weapon attack. Similarly it could be done with a swap to Jacaranda from Smokescale. Offense using smoke, unmerge swap to Jacaranda, meld heal un-meld, attack a bit swap back to Smoke. The only cooldown would/should be the petswap in this case. I can accept the dmg loss as listed above if there could be more fluidity to the class spec.

My preferred changes would be reducing the cooldown on BM to ~2 seconds (like an Engineer's kit), and make the normal f2 skill accessible in BM. Damage is still higher out of BM under most circumstances, and there are more options.

@Durzlla.6295 said:I feel like petswapping IN beast mode would result in beast mode getting nerfed since you suddenly don't know what kind of pet the ranger has stats from, what skills/F3 they have etc.

Not knowing ~600 worth of stats is bad, but not knowing what amulet your opponent has (3000+) is perfectly fine?

[Lazze.9870]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Iniak.9815 said:I read the forums often but very rarely post. I logged in to post this exact sentiment.

Pet swapping while in soulbeast mode is 100% needed and necessary

for this to feel like a fully fleshed out specialization.

You're not supposed to camp beastmode

You don't understand the problem with the lack of pet swap if you think that's the reason for why people want it.

[Lazze.9870]

@Alchimist.4738 said:The issue with pet swapping in beastmode is no one will ever use the pet anymore, I’d rather see the pet’s archetype effect (the statistic increase) remain for 5 seconds after we leave beastmode. On the other hand I also agree that giving pet swapping in beastmode would bring more flexibility to the spec.

Look at the current meta dps build for rangers in raids. Does it merge in and out of beastmode because it has to in order to swap pets? No. It stays with one pet the entire fight. In every fight. What you're "afraid" of with added pet swap in beastmode is already happening in one game mode.

In PvP people would still merge in and out for the added utility and the advantage of having a pet to damage or cc your opponent. There is also not a single reason to start any fight in pvp while merged with your pet. What pet swap would give us is a way to react in a fight by giving us the option to change our beastmode skills for different utility, and to proc pet swap traits. Pet swap would obviously be on a universal cooldown.

People arguing against pet swap in beastmode are literally arguing against added utility and QoL. Because they don't like the thought of someone camping beastmode.. Are you serious? You're arguing against gameplay, fluidity and viability because you want this "theme" of dancing in and out of beastmode? So what if some people wanna camp the mode? They already do! And those people aren't climbing the pvp ladder, to put it like that.

[Harry Foud.1935]

That would be too op imo. Like the fact that when you die while your pet doesnt die and just stops being merged with you.