What happened to Commanders?

[Strider Pj.2193]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Ari.4672 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes

I guess you ignored this part of what he said. It's the hypercasuals who flame the commander that was mentioned in the quote you chose.

Unfortunately taking things out of context and hyperbole doesn't help either side.

Is this an EU thing? Or maybe just specific servers thing?

Because in 5 years of WvW, I can honestly say I have

never

witnessed what you are describing. You get random salty people in map chat angry about an objective that was lost due to slow/no response. People angry about no callouts for things under attack. People salty about getting instagibbed by cheese/low-skill builds.

But random "hypercasuals" berating a comm because he refused to do what they demanded? Literally never seen it.

I don't have the problem personally. My response was more to the individual's response which poorly characterized the post made by Etheri.

And yes, it does happen. I've seen coms trolled heavily on NA that wishbto run certain comps. They ask nicely and are greeted with salt.

It isn't often, but it happens.

[Etheri.5406]

I'm saying if you're too casual to feel like doing what the group asks, you shouldn't follow them. It's OK that some people want to play differently, let them. Even if there are no other tags.

Not respecting other groups and their wishes isn't "nice", and most of the time your server relies on those guilds more than they're willing to admit. Where did the commanders go? Well gee I don't know.

[Trajan.4953]

@Ari.4672 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

This... explains so much of the current sad state of WvW.

[Sovereign.1093]

all servers i have been at or fought against were good or challenging because they had that one guy or two leading.

only on tmezone i played

when i was in deso, moorta and seth

cd, jarvan, leax, uncle

bg, m (sorry only remember the first letter now)

sbi, s (same as above)

sos, dad guild, salty pickle guys

sfr, tken

ns, krif pata fab blue

etc. etc.

to those i did not mention, you probably play at a differnt timezone.

and w/o these reg tags people normally dont show up.

coms make the difference.

[Dami.5046]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Ari.4672 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes

I guess you ignored this part of what he said. It's the hypercasuals who flame the commander that was mentioned in the quote you chose.

Unfortunately taking things out of context and hyperbole doesn't help either side.

Is this an EU thing? Or maybe just specific servers thing?

Because in 5 years of WvW, I can honestly say I have

never

witnessed what you are describing. You get random salty people in map chat angry about an objective that was lost due to slow/no response. People angry about no callouts for things under attack. People salty about getting instagibbed by cheese/low-skill builds.

But random "hypercasuals" berating a comm because he refused to do what they demanded? Literally never seen it.

nor have I. And at the moment I come under the banner 'hypercasual'.What a phase. 'Hi guys, I'm hyercasual can I help you take that keep?'You know If some people just helped with the daily and got 'rid' of your casuals off the map, then the world would be a happier place, no?

[Ari.4672]

@"Etheri.5406" said:I'm saying if you're too casual to feel like doing what the group asks, you shouldn't follow them. It's OK that some people want to play differently, let them. Even if there are no other tags.

Not respecting other groups and their wishes isn't "nice", and most of the time your server relies on those guilds more than they're willing to admit. Where did the commanders go? Well gee I don't know.

I do what I want - you don't tell me.

No groups state things to people near them either. It sounds more like you have issues more with the people on your server than anything..... guess you need to move server....

[Traveller.7496]

@"Dami.5046" said:nor have I. And at the moment I come under the banner 'hypercasual'.What a phase. 'Hi guys, I'm hyercasual can I help you take that keep?'You know If some people just helped with the daily and got 'rid' of your casuals off the map, then the world would be a happier place, no? ¨

They're not talking about random roamers. Of course you can flip camps and kill sentries. What they're describing are the people who want to join squads but refuse to bring classes and builds that the commanders ask for and get mad about it. (You may have seen the cries about "elitist commanders"?)

They are hypercasual because they feel like they cannot be asked to comply to the wishes of the commander for the greater good, but rather are the masters of their own destiny and cannot be told by anyone what to do. Which is of course fine if they roam around and make their own party, but surely a commander can ask what kind of a group composition they want in their own squad?

[Dami.5046]

@Traveller.7496 said:

@"Dami.5046" said:nor have I. And at the moment I come under the banner 'hypercasual'.What a phase. 'Hi guys, I'm hyercasual can I help you take that keep?'You know If some people just helped with the daily and got 'rid' of your casuals off the map, then the world would be a happier place, no? ¨

They're not talking about random roamers. Of course you can flip camps and kill sentries. What they're describing are the people who want to join squads but refuse to bring classes and builds that the commanders ask for and get mad about it. (You may have seen the cries about "elitist commanders"?)

They are hypercasual because they feel like they cannot be asked to comply to the wishes of the commander for the greater good, but rather are the masters of their own destiny and cannot be told by anyone what to do. Which is of course fine if they roam around and make their own party, but surely a commander can ask what kind of a group composition they want in their own squad?

The only thing any comm has asked that i'm aware of is to go on TS on my Server. This mind set of you must do as you are told, you must be meta, is nothing short of what happens in a playground at school.If you had read my post it clearly states that 'people helping people in wvw' should be the norm. You know if i get to an undefended tower and a comm is there , you really think I would change to SB from my ranger?My answer is no and thats polite.

[Etheri.5406]

@Dami.5046 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Ari.4672 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes

I guess you ignored this part of what he said. It's the hypercasuals who flame the commander that was mentioned in the quote you chose.

Unfortunately taking things out of context and hyperbole doesn't help either side.

Is this an EU thing? Or maybe just specific servers thing?

Because in 5 years of WvW, I can honestly say I have

never

witnessed what you are describing. You get random salty people in map chat angry about an objective that was lost due to slow/no response. People angry about no callouts for things under attack. People salty about getting instagibbed by cheese/low-skill builds.

But random "hypercasuals" berating a comm because he refused to do what they demanded? Literally never seen it.

nor have I. And at the moment I come under the banner 'hypercasual'.What a phase. 'Hi guys, I'm hyercasual can I help you take that keep?'You know If some people just helped with the daily and got 'rid' of your casuals off the map, then the world would be a happier place, no?

So you don't have core rangers with 1k+ WvW rank and yet several signets chasing you around permanently? Strange ;) I get them crying about us demanding proper builds while quite literally stalking any of our comms when they do well nearly 24/7. Move to a different server... didn't we create our server for exactly that purpose? Yeah I think we did.

I agree. I must get "rid" of them by doing their dailies for them with my group. Clearly that would make the world a better place and me a better commander. Remember where I said these casuals can go do stuff on their own if they want it? Where I said they don't have the right to join a group they disagree with, only to then tell them how they should play? "You should just do their dailies every half hour instead of ... trying to lead the style and for the people you enjoy playing with !!!"

No in reality it's more like this boys. I get a good group together and we kill the enemies a few times. They give up. I get an army of players the moment they start getting beat because YAY FREE BAGS COME QUICK BOYS. I continuously ask them to go to discord with links, and to swap to useful builds, with links. They ignore all of these requests completely. They're getting bags - clearly they're already doing perfect.

I move towards the keep. I continue to ask them to swap to something useful that will allow them to survive. We're literally attacking a T3 eb keep, i'm not sure what they expect.. What do they think will happen? No siege or ACs? Rangerproof farm where you can sit in the back? They're struggling to sustain a single normal AC on the outer, but they still don't seem to grasp that if I get through it'll get progressively worse. That even if my group can farm in there for 30 minutes straight before wiping, they'll be dead in less than 2. There is no (big) queue yet. I continue to tell them to swap and come to discord for this. More than half my group (30+ players) ignore this. They do not come disc, or get a proper setup. As soon as I get into inner 20/30 are dead on the floor. We mock them in discord and ask them again, nicely, in chat to swap. Instead they demand a res. I tell my players not to bother ressing anyone in siege fire on an inner keep, and that hte outer is still open. They stay there a full 5 minutes demanding res in chat instead.

We get through the inner, cause the other 30 players are capable of pressing their buttons and 30 capable players is more than almost any server can manage. Half the pugs have rerun back to me. We push in with 50+. Within the first 3 minutes, virtually everyone who doesn't have a capable party and sustainable build is dead. Maybe one or two selfish full-tank druid builds survive, but by the 10th minute they're dead too. I end up fighting 30 vs a mapqueue of unorganised pugs inside their EB keep. Once we clear most siege, we barely lose players and can survive quite a while. Because we're farming EB keep - altho we can't flip it as we can't control the lord and their respawns with half the numbers once all the pugs die on engage + rally our initial spikes - we get a massive queue. Obviously my players can't get in. Most pugs that refused to swap aren't smart enough to realise they'll NEVER survive inside the keep because their gameplay and build isn't adapted for it. After rallying, they ask me where keep is open, if peopel can portal them, sometimes even begging res in the middle of the lordsroom. Yeah goodluck with that buddy. They afk around waiting for me to get out, trying to get in but incapable of doing so. If I need to regroup, I get them in but most can't survive more than a couple of minutes.

I play 30v60 inside the keep and do well. The moment I go out of the keep, we quickly get 70+ and completely stomp the enemies. Because the pugs are still hungry for bags - just not hungry enough to listen or do anything I ask. They'd rather casually leech where possible. This is a stalemate : most of my players are annoyed and in queue. Most of the pugs on my map are annoyed they can't play with us. The enemies won't come out and play with us open field the way the pugs like, because we'd steamroll over them. Yet over time the enemy zone organised better to defend their keep and between siege and 70 players, flipping an EB keep becomes progressively more impossible.

So we're in the stalemate : I can't go into the keep and continue to pressure. They siege to an extent where eventually I can't even get inside. They won't come outside, as their pugs won't jump either and my pugs are there waiting for the 70v30. Meanwhile I have 50+ queue on the map because OMAGOD COMMANDER ATTACKING A KEEP QUICK GO THERE?? and half the community players I enjoy playing with are stuck in that queue. Pugs tell me to regroup, to portal them in, to open the gates, to attack something else, to not stand in acs... But they won't come discord or change builds despite me asking for hours - even before the queue.

So what are my options? Right :Option 1) Kill your pugs. This is an amazing sport where you continuously go to places where pugs die. Pugs hate dying. Any kind of siege will do. 2 acs is enough to kill 10 mobile ACs aka rangers. If I keep hitting the keep and wiping the pugs, sure I intentionally make my own zerg tank acs for an hour or more but it cleanses the map of most of these "pugs" that will "help me cap the keep". x DOption 2) hide tag, pretend you go to other maps, ... ??? profit. Pugs don't come to discord and they aren't smart. They do get very mad if you do this and they get jebaited. Suddenly you're evil and toxic.Option 3) go other map, tell people in discord first. Again, they get pretty annoyed if you do this. But is it unfair? Nah.

No matter which one you do, they'll STILL cry on teamchat / mapchat about it. If you tag down or hide your tag from them, they'll still throw a tantrum and demand commanders. If you reply to their "commander plz" with discord link, they still won't figure out we HAVE ACTIVE COMMANDERS and all they need to do is go discord to find them.

Yeah sorry - most casuals don't help you cap a keep. They make it progressively harder by dying on engage and refusing to play organised / coordinated enough to actually hard farm keeps while throwing a tantrum when you tell them they're deadweight. Because that's the truth, against defended objectives if you don't play coordinated inside a coordinated group you're usually not helping.

@Ari.4672

I do what I want - you don't tell me.

Yeah that's my point. You want commanders but you do what you want. Nobody can tell you what to do! A commander is there to ... tell you what? Right, nothing! He's a dorito for you to follow that must provide bags and structure while you do what you want!

Oh by the way, why does nobody want to tag? Are you saying it's not fun leading a huge group of players if most of them "do what they want"? Are you saying it's not fun to "command" or "lead" yet... half of them are so entitled they just go "you can't tell me what to do". And by the way, that's fair, they can't tell you what to do. But if you don't want to listen to them, why are you following that commander?

Right. If you don't WANT to listen to your commander, if your commander can't tell you what to do, find a commander you like more or go do something else. Go roam if you're so strict about only doing whatever /you/ want. Respect the fact that some groups and players want to play coordinated, together, as a team. Realise that some players and commanders do expect these commanders to actually lead. They are quite literally there to tell you what to do. Now I'll happily listen to MY PLAYERS who support me whenever I lead and who will do what I ask even if they disagree. But I'm not a puppet that has to do whatever a pug demands while they won't even listen to a word I say unless it magically aligns with their feelings.

Again : A happier place existed when CASUAL PUGS also accepted that some groups don't want to play their casual pug style. Some groups are NOT for them. I also don't go follow a casual group to then flame them for not being more hardcore about fights. If I don't like it i will actually leave. Not difficult. If you cannot respect this, then you will create an environment which isn't exactly as you like. Maybe, guilds suddenly move together to avoid these players and stack servers. Maybe commanders and guilds magically dissapear. Can you blame them if nobody respects their wishes? I can't.

I'm sure these hardcore guilds will get replaced by casual WvW guilds leading 24/7 providing you with great casual-minded entertainment... Oh wait we're in a thread talking about no commanders at all. Why is that again? Must be toxic elitists their fault!

[Traveller.7496]

@Dami.5046 said:The only thing any comm has asked that i'm aware of is to go on TS on my Server. This mind set of you must do as you are told, you must be meta, is nothing short of what happens in a playground at school.

In a tactical large-scale combat a level of organizing is required to achieve the best results. That may require voice comms or a certain type of party/squad composition. Is it so wrong that some commanders want this more tactical approach? There's still gonna be squads where anything goes and the commander will just be typemanding.

You are perfectly free to roam, havoc or help defend random objectives on your ranger. But the point is that sometimes a commander will want their squad to feature certain classes and builds. Will you start an argument that you must be allowed in on your ranger, or try to bring something that is requested? That's the point I'm trying to make. I guess for some people it's unfathomable to adjust their own playstyle to cope with the group's?

[Dami.5046]

@Traveller.7496 said:

@Dami.5046 said:The only thing any comm has asked that i'm aware of is to go on TS on my Server. This mind set of you must do as you are told, you must be meta, is nothing short of what happens in a playground at school.

In a tactical large-scale combat a level of organizing is required to achieve the best results. That may require voice comms or a certain type of party/squad composition. Is it so wrong that some commanders want this more tactical approach? There's still gonna be squads where anything goes and the commander will just be typemanding.

You are perfectly free to roam, havoc or help defend random objectives on your ranger. But the point is that sometimes a commander will want their squad to feature certain classes and builds. Will you start an argument that you must be allowed in on your ranger, or try to bring something that is requested? That's the point I'm trying to mak

If a comm is all that, then they will have the Builds they want. The point i'm saying that if a daily is say, take a keep, why is there so much disdain if someone offers another pair of hands so to speak?

[Ari.4672]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Dami.5046 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Ari.4672 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes

I guess you ignored this part of what he said. It's the hypercasuals who flame the commander that was mentioned in the quote you chose.

Unfortunately taking things out of context and hyperbole doesn't help either side.

Is this an EU thing? Or maybe just specific servers thing?

Because in 5 years of WvW, I can honestly say I have

never

witnessed what you are describing. You get random salty people in map chat angry about an objective that was lost due to slow/no response. People angry about no callouts for things under attack. People salty about getting instagibbed by cheese/low-skill builds.

But random "hypercasuals" berating a comm because he refused to do what they demanded? Literally never seen it.

nor have I. And at the moment I come under the banner 'hypercasual'.What a phase. 'Hi guys, I'm hyercasual can I help you take that keep?'You know If some people just helped with the daily and got 'rid' of your casuals off the map, then the world would be a happier place, no?

So you don't have core rangers with 1k+ WvW rank and yet several signets chasing you around permanently? Strange ;) I get them crying about us demanding proper builds while quite literally stalking any of our comms when they do well nearly 24/7. Move to a different server... didn't we create our server for exactly that purpose? Yeah I think we did.

I agree. I must get "rid" of them by doing their dailies for them with my group. Clearly that would make the world a better place and me a better commander. Remember where I said these casuals can go do stuff on their own if they want it? Where I said they don't have the right to join a group they disagree with, only to then tell them how they should play? "You should just do their dailies every half hour instead of ... trying to lead the style and for the people you enjoy playing with !!!"

No in reality it's more like this boys. I get a good group together and we kill the enemies a few times. They give up. I get an army of players the moment they start getting beat because YAY FREE BAGS COME QUICK BOYS. I continuously ask them to go to discord with links, and to swap to useful builds, with links. They ignore all of these requests completely. They're getting bags - clearly they're already doing perfect.

I move towards the keep. I continue to ask them to swap to something useful that will allow them to survive. We're literally attacking a T3 eb keep, i'm not sure what they expect.. What do they think will happen? No siege or ACs? Rangerproof farm where you can sit in the back? They're struggling to sustain a single normal AC on the outer, but they still don't seem to grasp that if I get through it'll get progressively worse. That even if my group can farm in there for 30 minutes straight before wiping, they'll be dead in less than 2. There is no (big) queue yet. I continue to tell them to swap and come to discord for this. More than half my group (30+ players) ignore this. They do not come disc, or get a proper setup. As soon as I get into inner 20/30 are dead on the floor. We mock them in discord and ask them again, nicely, in chat to swap. Instead they demand a res. I tell my players not to bother ressing anyone in siege fire on an inner keep, and that hte outer is still open. They stay there a full 5 minutes demanding res in chat instead.

We get through the inner, cause the other 30 players are capable of pressing their buttons and 30 capable players is more than almost any server can manage. Half the pugs have rerun back to me. We push in with 50+. Within the first 3 minutes, virtually everyone who doesn't have a capable party and sustainable build is dead. Maybe one or two selfish full-tank druid builds survive, but by the 10th minute they're dead too. I end up fighting 30 vs a mapqueue of unorganised pugs inside their EB keep. Once we clear most siege, we barely lose players and can survive quite a while. Because we're farming EB keep - altho we can't flip it as we can't control the lord and their respawns with half the numbers once all the pugs die on engage + rally our initial spikes - we get a massive queue. Obviously my players can't get in. Most pugs that refused to swap aren't smart enough to realise they'll NEVER survive inside the keep because their gameplay and build isn't adapted for it. After rallying, they ask me where keep is open, if peopel can portal them, sometimes even begging res in the middle of the lordsroom. Yeah goodluck with that buddy. They afk around waiting for me to get out, trying to get in but incapable of doing so. If I need to regroup, I get them in but most can't survive more than a couple of minutes.

I play 30v60 inside the keep and do well. The moment I go out of the keep, we quickly get 70+ and completely stomp the enemies. Because the pugs are still hungry for bags - just not hungry enough to listen or do anything I ask. They'd rather casually leech where possible. This is a stalemate : most of my players are annoyed and in queue. Most of the pugs on my map are annoyed they can't play with us. The enemies won't come out and play with us open field the way the pugs like, because we'd steamroll over them. Yet over time the enemy zone organised better to defend their keep and between siege and 70 players, flipping an EB keep becomes progressively more impossible.

So we're in the stalemate : I can't go into the keep and continue to pressure. They siege to an extent where eventually I can't even get inside. They won't come outside, as their pugs won't jump either and my pugs are there waiting for the 70v30. Meanwhile I have 50+ queue on the map because OMAGOD COMMANDER ATTACKING A KEEP QUICK GO THERE?? and half the community players I enjoy playing with are stuck in that queue. Pugs tell me to regroup, to portal them in, to open the gates, to attack something else, to not stand in acs... But they won't come discord or change builds despite me asking for hours - even before the queue.

So what are my options? Right :Option 1) Kill your pugs. This is an amazing sport where you continuously go to places where pugs die. Pugs hate dying. Any kind of siege will do. 2 acs is enough to kill 10 mobile ACs aka rangers. If I keep hitting the keep and wiping the pugs, sure I intentionally make my own zerg tank acs for an hour or more but it cleanses the map of most of these "pugs" that will "help me cap the keep". x DOption 2) hide tag, pretend you go to other maps, ... ??? profit. Pugs don't come to discord and they aren't smart. They do get very mad if you do this and they get jebaited. Suddenly you're evil and toxic.Option 3) go other map, tell people in discord first. Again, they get pretty annoyed if you do this. But is it unfair? Nah.

No matter which one you do, they'll STILL cry on teamchat / mapchat about it. If you tag down or hide your tag from them, they'll still throw a tantrum and demand commanders. If you reply to their "commander plz" with discord link, they still won't figure out we HAVE ACTIVE COMMANDERS and all they need to do is go discord to find them.

Yeah sorry - most casuals don't help you cap a keep. They make it progressively harder by dying on engage and refusing to play organised / coordinated enough to actually hard farm keeps while throwing a tantrum when you tell them they're deadweight. Because that's the truth, against defended objectives if you don't play coordinated inside a coordinated group you're usually not helping.

@Ari.4672

I do what I want - you don't tell me.

Yeah that's my point. You want commanders but you do what you want. Nobody can tell you what to do! A commander is there to ... tell you what? Right, nothing! He's a dorito for you to follow that must provide bags and structure while you do what you want!

Oh by the way, why does nobody want to tag? Are you saying it's not fun leading a huge group of players if most of them "do what they want"? Are you saying it's not fun to "command" or "lead" yet... half of them are so entitled they just go "you can't tell me what to do". And by the way, that's fair, they can't tell you what to do. But if you don't want to listen to them, why are you following that commander?

Right. If you don't WANT to listen to your commander, if your commander can't tell you what to do, find a commander you like more or go do something else. Go roam if you're so strict about only doing whatever /you/ want. Respect the fact that some groups and players want to play coordinated, together, as a team. Realise that some players and commanders do expect these commanders to actually lead. They are quite literally there to tell you what to do. Now I'll happily listen to MY PLAYERS who support me whenever I lead and who will do what I ask even if they disagree. But I'm not a puppet that has to do whatever a pug demands while they won't even listen to a word I say unless it magically aligns with their feelings.

Again : A happier place existed when CASUAL PUGS also accepted that some groups don't want to play their casual pug style. Some groups are NOT for them. I also don't go follow a casual group to then flame them for not being more hardcore about fights. If I don't like it i will actually leave. Not difficult. If you cannot respect this, then you will create an environment which isn't exactly as you like. Maybe, guilds suddenly move together to avoid these players and stack servers. Maybe commanders and guilds magically dissapear. Can you blame them if nobody respects their wishes? I can't.

I'm sure these hardcore guilds will get replaced by casual WvW guilds leading 24/7 providing you with great casual-minded entertainment... Oh wait we're in a thread talking about no commanders at all. Why is that again? Must be toxic elitists their fault!

Ego - pure ego and where is it that I said need commanders? I say remove from the game as all we get are egotistical self-important people who think they can dictate things and they are the most toxic of players trying to lay down demands. It's an online game and community not a "my bois are best" club

[Sovereign.1093]

@Ari.4672 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

casuals and non casuals are welcome.

i think you guys are the backbone.

my guild runs regular with 7 members and 5 to 10 regular friends. sometimes non ts ppl follow sometimes they do their own thing and we dont mind.

sometimes the non ts probably carries us. hehe

[Etheri.5406]

@Ari.4672 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Dami.5046 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Ari.4672 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes

I guess you ignored this part of what he said. It's the hypercasuals who flame the commander that was mentioned in the quote you chose.

Unfortunately taking things out of context and hyperbole doesn't help either side.

Is this an EU thing? Or maybe just specific servers thing?

Because in 5 years of WvW, I can honestly say I have

never

witnessed what you are describing. You get random salty people in map chat angry about an objective that was lost due to slow/no response. People angry about no callouts for things under attack. People salty about getting instagibbed by cheese/low-skill builds.

But random "hypercasuals" berating a comm because he refused to do what they demanded? Literally never seen it.

nor have I. And at the moment I come under the banner 'hypercasual'.What a phase. 'Hi guys, I'm hyercasual can I help you take that keep?'You know If some people just helped with the daily and got 'rid' of your casuals off the map, then the world would be a happier place, no?

So you don't have core rangers with 1k+ WvW rank and yet several signets chasing you around permanently? Strange ;) I get them crying about us demanding proper builds while quite literally stalking any of our comms when they do well nearly 24/7. Move to a different server... didn't we create our server for exactly that purpose? Yeah I think we did.

I agree. I must get "rid" of them by doing their dailies for them with my group. Clearly that would make the world a better place and me a better commander. Remember where I said these casuals can go do stuff on their own if they want it? Where I said they don't have the right to join a group they disagree with, only to then tell them how they should play? "You should just do their dailies every half hour instead of ... trying to lead the style and for the people you enjoy playing with !!!"

No in reality it's more like this boys. I get a good group together and we kill the enemies a few times. They give up. I get an army of players the moment they start getting beat because YAY FREE BAGS COME QUICK BOYS. I continuously ask them to go to discord with links, and to swap to useful builds, with links. They ignore all of these requests completely. They're getting bags - clearly they're already doing perfect.

I move towards the keep. I continue to ask them to swap to something useful that will allow them to survive. We're literally attacking a T3 eb keep, i'm not sure what they expect.. What do they think will happen? No siege or ACs? Rangerproof farm where you can sit in the back? They're struggling to sustain a single normal AC on the outer, but they still don't seem to grasp that if I get through it'll get progressively worse. That even if my group can farm in there for 30 minutes straight before wiping, they'll be dead in less than 2. There is no (big) queue yet. I continue to tell them to swap and come to discord for this. More than half my group (30+ players) ignore this. They do not come disc, or get a proper setup. As soon as I get into inner 20/30 are dead on the floor. We mock them in discord and ask them again, nicely, in chat to swap. Instead they demand a res. I tell my players not to bother ressing anyone in siege fire on an inner keep, and that hte outer is still open. They stay there a full 5 minutes demanding res in chat instead.

We get through the inner, cause the other 30 players are capable of pressing their buttons and 30 capable players is more than almost any server can manage. Half the pugs have rerun back to me. We push in with 50+. Within the first 3 minutes, virtually everyone who doesn't have a capable party and sustainable build is dead. Maybe one or two selfish full-tank druid builds survive, but by the 10th minute they're dead too. I end up fighting 30 vs a mapqueue of unorganised pugs inside their EB keep. Once we clear most siege, we barely lose players and can survive quite a while. Because we're farming EB keep - altho we can't flip it as we can't control the lord and their respawns with half the numbers once all the pugs die on engage + rally our initial spikes - we get a massive queue. Obviously my players can't get in. Most pugs that refused to swap aren't smart enough to realise they'll NEVER survive inside the keep because their gameplay and build isn't adapted for it. After rallying, they ask me where keep is open, if peopel can portal them, sometimes even begging res in the middle of the lordsroom. Yeah goodluck with that buddy. They afk around waiting for me to get out, trying to get in but incapable of doing so. If I need to regroup, I get them in but most can't survive more than a couple of minutes.

I play 30v60 inside the keep and do well. The moment I go out of the keep, we quickly get 70+ and completely stomp the enemies. Because the pugs are still hungry for bags - just not hungry enough to listen or do anything I ask. They'd rather casually leech where possible. This is a stalemate : most of my players are annoyed and in queue. Most of the pugs on my map are annoyed they can't play with us. The enemies won't come out and play with us open field the way the pugs like, because we'd steamroll over them. Yet over time the enemy zone organised better to defend their keep and between siege and 70 players, flipping an EB keep becomes progressively more impossible.

So we're in the stalemate : I can't go into the keep and continue to pressure. They siege to an extent where eventually I can't even get inside. They won't come outside, as their pugs won't jump either and my pugs are there waiting for the 70v30. Meanwhile I have 50+ queue on the map because OMAGOD COMMANDER ATTACKING A KEEP QUICK GO THERE?? and half the community players I enjoy playing with are stuck in that queue. Pugs tell me to regroup, to portal them in, to open the gates, to attack something else, to not stand in acs... But they won't come discord or change builds despite me asking for hours - even before the queue.

So what are my options? Right :Option 1) Kill your pugs. This is an amazing sport where you continuously go to places where pugs die. Pugs hate dying. Any kind of siege will do. 2 acs is enough to kill 10 mobile ACs aka rangers. If I keep hitting the keep and wiping the pugs, sure I intentionally make my own zerg tank acs for an hour or more but it cleanses the map of most of these "pugs" that will "help me cap the keep". x DOption 2) hide tag, pretend you go to other maps, ... ??? profit. Pugs don't come to discord and they aren't smart. They do get very mad if you do this and they get jebaited. Suddenly you're evil and toxic.Option 3) go other map, tell people in discord first. Again, they get pretty annoyed if you do this. But is it unfair? Nah.

No matter which one you do, they'll STILL cry on teamchat / mapchat about it. If you tag down or hide your tag from them, they'll still throw a tantrum and demand commanders. If you reply to their "commander plz" with discord link, they still won't figure out we HAVE ACTIVE COMMANDERS and all they need to do is go discord to find them.

Yeah sorry - most casuals don't help you cap a keep. They make it progressively harder by dying on engage and refusing to play organised / coordinated enough to actually hard farm keeps while throwing a tantrum when you tell them they're deadweight. Because that's the truth, against defended objectives if you don't play coordinated inside a coordinated group you're usually not helping.

@Ari.4672

I do what I want - you don't tell me.

Yeah that's my point. You want commanders but you do what you want. Nobody can tell you what to do! A commander is there to ... tell you what? Right, nothing! He's a dorito for you to follow that must provide bags and structure while you do what you want!

Oh by the way, why does nobody want to tag? Are you saying it's not fun leading a huge group of players if most of them "do what they want"? Are you saying it's not fun to "command" or "lead" yet... half of them are so entitled they just go "you can't tell me what to do". And by the way, that's fair, they can't tell you what to do. But if you don't want to listen to them, why are you following that commander?

Right. If you don't WANT to listen to your commander, if your commander can't tell you what to do, find a commander you like more or go do something else. Go roam if you're so strict about only doing whatever /you/ want. Respect the fact that some groups and players want to play coordinated, together, as a team. Realise that some players and commanders do expect these commanders to actually lead. They are quite literally there to tell you what to do. Now I'll happily listen to MY PLAYERS who support me whenever I lead and who will do what I ask even if they disagree. But I'm not a puppet that has to do whatever a pug demands while they won't even listen to a word I say unless it magically aligns with their feelings.

Again : A happier place existed when CASUAL PUGS also accepted that some groups don't want to play their casual pug style. Some groups are NOT for them. I also don't go follow a casual group to then flame them for not being more hardcore about fights. If I don't like it i will actually leave. Not difficult. If you cannot respect this, then you will create an environment which isn't exactly as you like. Maybe, guilds suddenly move together to avoid these players and stack servers. Maybe commanders and guilds magically dissapear. Can you blame them if nobody respects their wishes? I can't.

I'm sure these hardcore guilds will get replaced by casual WvW guilds leading 24/7 providing you with great casual-minded entertainment... Oh wait we're in a thread talking about no commanders at all. Why is that again? Must be toxic elitists their fault!

Ego - pure ego and where is it that I said need commanders? I say remove from the game as all we get are egotistical self-important people who think they can dictate things and they are the most toxic of players trying to lay down demands. It's an online game and community not a "my bois are best" club

If you do not -lets ignore the thread completely and pull everything out of context to blame others for being "elitist" because they don't embrace your hypercasual playstyle, what's the problem with NOT following groups that would rather not have you follow them? Surely you can agree with other players wanting to play differently and allowing them to do so ;)

i think you guys are the backbone.

The backbone is dead and progressively getting worse across every server.

my guild runs regular with 7 members and 5 to 10 regular friends. sometimes non ts ppl follow sometimes they do their own thing and we dont mind.

Sometimes I clown around and let anyone join as they wish. Sometimes I want to play organised and set rules. Is it not my right to command and lead my players as I wish? Especially if I can find plenty of players willing to follow? Appearantly not - that's just insane ego.

Oh by the way, where did the commanders go?!?!

[Sovereign.1093]

in nsp? well, more and more coms are popping. maybe to our server. =p

i only focus on those in ts who are in squad. i cant force them to do what i want, i just do my best to set the stage so they do what i expect of them.

coordination is a long term project. my guys 6 months before, die when a zerg passes. one sneeze, gg. now, they rush to the blob with me. we still die, but sometimes we pull a win. and the feeling is just awesome.

[Dami.5046]

where have the comms gone?Oh they are still there. They just don't tag up because they don't want us roamers joining in.Has that not been discussed before?

[Sovereign.1093]

@Dami.5046 said:where have the comms gone?Oh they are still there. They just don't tag up because they don't want us roamers joining in.Has that not been discussed before?

sadly there are those who shoo players away. :/

[Chaba.5410]

@Dami.5046 said:The point i'm saying that if a daily is say, take a keep, why is there so much disdain if someone offers another pair of hands so to speak?

People aren't playing for keeps. I mean dailies. Yes, pun intended.

Dailies often don't have any connection to what is or isn't strategic for the time someone is logged into a match. For example, if all keeps are T3, that's often a three hour grind to take and a guild rallied for 2 hours maybe isn't looking to spend their playtime doing that.

Besides, you really only need three dailies for the AP. There are others to choose from and with the time you spend trying to take a T3 keep, you could've made up that WXP by killing grub and doing some other things. You really want to spend three hours for a single daily?

[Rampage.7145]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Dami.5046 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Ari.4672 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes. And you boys frequently promote that. Just follow the zerg and press 1. Don't play with them. Don't care about them. If they ask things you disagree with ignore them and follow anyways.

So what you are saying is people who have a life and do casual WvW to get some rewards and do dailys are a problem? Really? I've been in WvW and had many people as solos grouping up to take camps, towers and keeps. Hell with one other person, both of us solo we grouped and took a tower. That is an issue? We took points for the server, contributed to the skirmish and the war score. You shun them? Or is your life so perfect WvW that nothing can harm it and unless uber-pro and full of self-righteous ego you can't go into WvW?

Sorry your mistaken - so many people only join WvW guilds and follow people who payed a little cash to make themselves look good for once (oooo ooo look people following me!!) to use them. I've seen many guilds where people follow a commander and some do things, but many in that guild sit there just "following the zerg" and capitalizing on what others do. None of this working as one crap as very few do - and many commanders do go to the aid of others, some don't and just run away to satisfy their own plans - and ignore their server when asked to help.

Some commanders are good, some get crap because they fail at things, and some are so up their own jacksie that they should just admit they use people and be done with it.

btw - if/when I follow a commanders group sometimes I am invited to the squad and join, sometimes not invited- but never does anyone say anything at all as I am still helping and contributing - so all this asking must happen on special servers.... as I've never seen it at all....

The biggest problem is the amount of hypercasual players harassing ANY group that wants to play organised / coordinated without respecting their wishes

I guess you ignored this part of what he said. It's the hypercasuals who flame the commander that was mentioned in the quote you chose.

Unfortunately taking things out of context and hyperbole doesn't help either side.

Is this an EU thing? Or maybe just specific servers thing?

Because in 5 years of WvW, I can honestly say I have

never

witnessed what you are describing. You get random salty people in map chat angry about an objective that was lost due to slow/no response. People angry about no callouts for things under attack. People salty about getting instagibbed by cheese/low-skill builds.

But random "hypercasuals" berating a comm because he refused to do what they demanded? Literally never seen it.

nor have I. And at the moment I come under the banner 'hypercasual'.What a phase. 'Hi guys, I'm hyercasual can I help you take that keep?'You know If some people just helped with the daily and got 'rid' of your casuals off the map, then the world would be a happier place, no?

So you don't have core rangers with 1k+ WvW rank and yet several signets chasing you around permanently? Strange ;) I get them crying about us demanding proper builds while quite literally stalking any of our comms when they do well nearly 24/7. Move to a different server... didn't we create our server for exactly that purpose? Yeah I think we did.

I agree. I must get "rid" of them by doing their dailies for them with my group. Clearly that would make the world a better place and me a better commander. Remember where I said these casuals can go do stuff on their own if they want it? Where I said they don't have the right to join a group they disagree with, only to then tell them how they should play? "You should just do their dailies every half hour instead of ... trying to lead the style and for the people you enjoy playing with !!!"

No in reality it's more like this boys. I get a good group together and we kill the enemies a few times. They give up. I get an army of players the moment they start getting beat because YAY FREE BAGS COME QUICK BOYS. I continuously ask them to go to discord with links, and to swap to useful builds, with links. They ignore all of these requests completely. They're getting bags - clearly they're already doing perfect.

I move towards the keep. I continue to ask them to swap to something useful that will allow them to survive. We're literally attacking a T3 eb keep, i'm not sure what they expect.. What do they think will happen? No siege or ACs? Rangerproof farm where you can sit in the back? They're struggling to sustain a single normal AC on the outer, but they still don't seem to grasp that if I get through it'll get progressively worse. That even if my group can farm in there for 30 minutes straight before wiping, they'll be dead in less than 2. There is no (big) queue yet. I continue to tell them to swap and come to discord for this. More than half my group (30+ players) ignore this. They do not come disc, or get a proper setup. As soon as I get into inner 20/30 are dead on the floor. We mock them in discord and ask them again, nicely, in chat to swap. Instead they demand a res. I tell my players not to bother ressing anyone in siege fire on an inner keep, and that hte outer is still open. They stay there a full 5 minutes demanding res in chat instead.

We get through the inner, cause the other 30 players are capable of pressing their buttons and 30 capable players is more than almost any server can manage. Half the pugs have rerun back to me. We push in with 50+. Within the first 3 minutes, virtually everyone who doesn't have a capable party and sustainable build is dead. Maybe one or two selfish full-tank druid builds survive, but by the 10th minute they're dead too. I end up fighting 30 vs a mapqueue of unorganised pugs inside their EB keep. Once we clear most siege, we barely lose players and can survive quite a while. Because we're farming EB keep - altho we can't flip it as we can't control the lord and their respawns with half the numbers once all the pugs die on engage + rally our initial spikes - we get a massive queue. Obviously my players can't get in. Most pugs that refused to swap aren't smart enough to realise they'll NEVER survive inside the keep because their gameplay and build isn't adapted for it. After rallying, they ask me where keep is open, if peopel can portal them, sometimes even begging res in the middle of the lordsroom. Yeah goodluck with that buddy. They afk around waiting for me to get out, trying to get in but incapable of doing so. If I need to regroup, I get them in but most can't survive more than a couple of minutes.

I play 30v60 inside the keep and do well. The moment I go out of the keep, we quickly get 70+ and completely stomp the enemies. Because the pugs are still hungry for bags - just not hungry enough to listen or do anything I ask. They'd rather casually leech where possible. This is a stalemate : most of my players are annoyed and in queue. Most of the pugs on my map are annoyed they can't play with us. The enemies won't come out and play with us open field the way the pugs like, because we'd steamroll over them. Yet over time the enemy zone organised better to defend their keep and between siege and 70 players, flipping an EB keep becomes progressively more impossible.

So we're in the stalemate : I can't go into the keep and continue to pressure. They siege to an extent where eventually I can't even get inside. They won't come outside, as their pugs won't jump either and my pugs are there waiting for the 70v30. Meanwhile I have 50+ queue on the map because OMAGOD COMMANDER ATTACKING A KEEP QUICK GO THERE?? and half the community players I enjoy playing with are stuck in that queue. Pugs tell me to regroup, to portal them in, to open the gates, to attack something else, to not stand in acs... But they won't come discord or change builds despite me asking for hours - even before the queue.

So what are my options? Right :Option 1) Kill your pugs. This is an amazing sport where you continuously go to places where pugs die. Pugs hate dying. Any kind of siege will do. 2 acs is enough to kill 10 mobile ACs aka rangers. If I keep hitting the keep and wiping the pugs, sure I intentionally make my own zerg tank acs for an hour or more but it cleanses the map of most of these "pugs" that will "help me cap the keep". x DOption 2) hide tag, pretend you go to other maps, ... ??? profit. Pugs don't come to discord and they aren't smart. They do get very mad if you do this and they get jebaited. Suddenly you're evil and toxic.Option 3) go other map, tell people in discord first. Again, they get pretty annoyed if you do this. But is it unfair? Nah.

No matter which one you do, they'll STILL cry on teamchat / mapchat about it. If you tag down or hide your tag from them, they'll still throw a tantrum and demand commanders. If you reply to their "commander plz" with discord link, they still won't figure out we HAVE ACTIVE COMMANDERS and all they need to do is go discord to find them.

Yeah sorry - most casuals don't help you cap a keep. They make it progressively harder by dying on engage and refusing to play organised / coordinated enough to actually hard farm keeps while throwing a tantrum when you tell them they're deadweight. Because that's the truth, against defended objectives if you don't play coordinated inside a coordinated group you're usually not helping.

@Ari.4672

I do what I want - you don't tell me.

Yeah that's my point. You want commanders but you do what you want. Nobody can tell you what to do! A commander is there to ... tell you what? Right, nothing! He's a dorito for you to follow that must provide bags and structure while you do what you want!

Oh by the way, why does nobody want to tag? Are you saying it's not fun leading a huge group of players if most of them "do what they want"? Are you saying it's not fun to "command" or "lead" yet... half of them are so entitled they just go "you can't tell me what to do". And by the way, that's fair, they can't tell you what to do. But if you don't want to listen to them, why are you following that commander?

Right. If you don't WANT to listen to your commander, if your commander can't tell you what to do, find a commander you like more or go do something else. Go roam if you're so strict about only doing whatever /you/ want. Respect the fact that some groups and players want to play coordinated, together, as a team. Realise that some players and commanders do expect these commanders to actually lead. They are quite literally there to tell you what to do. Now I'll happily listen to MY PLAYERS who support me whenever I lead and who will do what I ask even if they disagree. But I'm not a puppet that has to do whatever a pug demands while they won't even listen to a word I say unless it magically aligns with their feelings.

Again : A happier place existed when CASUAL PUGS also accepted that some groups don't want to play their casual pug style. Some groups are NOT for them. I also don't go follow a casual group to then flame them for not being more hardcore about fights. If I don't like it i will actually leave. Not difficult. If you cannot respect this, then you will create an environment which isn't exactly as you like. Maybe, guilds suddenly move together to avoid these players and stack servers. Maybe commanders and guilds magically dissapear. Can you blame them if nobody respects their wishes? I can't.

I'm sure these hardcore guilds will get replaced by casual WvW guilds leading 24/7 providing you with great casual-minded entertainment... Oh wait we're in a thread talking about no commanders at all. Why is that again? Must be toxic elitists their fault!

this not 100% accurate, this is 200% accurate, there is nothing else to be said in this whole thread just spam this message over and over and all the retards who wonder what happened to commander will maybe read this and understand how a commader feels in 2018 and why nobody wants to command.

[Etheri.5406]

@Rampage.7145 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

this not 100% accurate, this is 200% accurate,there is nothing else to be said in this whole thread

just spam this message over and over and all the kitten who wonder what happened to commander will maybe read this and understand how a commader feels in 2018 and why nobody wants to command.

No problem, I got this.

[Rayya.2591]

i do not understand this etheri guy, and why he hate rangers :(

[Dami.5046]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Dami.5046 said:The point i'm saying that if a daily is say, take a keep, why is there so much disdain if someone offers another pair of hands so to speak?

People aren't playing for keeps. I mean dailies. Yes, pun intended.

Dailies often don't have any connection to what is or isn't strategic for the time someone is logged into a match. For example, if all keeps are T3, that's often a three hour grind to take and a guild rallied for 2 hours maybe isn't looking to spend their playtime doing that.

Besides, you really only need three dailies for the AP. There are others to choose from and with the time you spend trying to take a T3 keep, you could've made up that WXP by killing grub and doing some other things. You really want to spend three hours for a single daily?

It was just an example. geez.But I get it, no one with a tag wants to help any one but themselves .Over and out.

[Stormscar.5489]

Reading most comments in this thread is just another confirmation that 90%+ of the remaining population is just formed of absolute trash casuals who just want easy rewards. They must have thought they're coming to another Auric Basin or Palawadan where you can come on whatever build, require 0 organisation, 11111 for some time and get rewards. And somehow they don't understand why some players would like engaging their braincells when playing a video game.

[Loosmaster.8263]

@Rayya.2591 said:i do not understand this etheri guy, and why he hate rangers :(

He's not the only one. You have to look at the Grand scheme of things and see what a ranger does/ doesn't bring to an organized group and in particular the player.

[Dami.5046]

@Stormscar.5489 said:Reading most comments in this thread is just another confirmation that 90%+ of the remaining population is just formed of absolute trash casuals who just want easy rewards. They must have thought they're coming to another Auric Basin or Palawadan where you can come on whatever build, require 0 organisation, 11111 for some time and get rewards. And somehow they don't understand why some players would like engaging their braincells when playing a video game.

This comment made my day.:3