Is condition damage out of control?

[Dediggefedde.4961]

@"Etheri.5406"Might be that my opinion has mistakes. ^^Yes, I don't compare power against condi damage in zergs. For me "out of control" means, that there is no effective counter. So I consider the needed cleansing. And I think I made a point to that by saying scourges easily spamming condis faster than most classes can group-cleanse them with effort.

I'm not an expert of mage, so I hope mage cleansing experts don't take offense when I say that they might have a problem in the current meta.Firebrand F1 has the pulsing resistance field, which gives you enough time to cleanse, even if corruption is applied once between pulses.I remember a time where druids were requested in guild WvW-Raids of ~30 people, hence the mention... Heal-rev also was a thing once, also lacking cleansing for the current meta.

But I also read here that a lot of servers seem to play more on power now, so maybe it's just my little bracket that's every matchup experiencing all those old-school condi-scourges. ^^

[Zexanima.7851]

Like other people have stated, I don't think it's the damage or the amount but the frequency of application and the play style of something like condi mirage/theif. It's not that it's really 'op' as you can beat it reliably if you know what you're doing but it's just no fun to play against in my opinion.

[Sylosis.7125]

Honestly i think the game is in a good place right now balance wise, this goes for both power and condi. People just need to get organised and this wont happen on the majority of servers due to a casual mindset of players and commanders.

People complaining are probably on the other end of a beating by a far more experienced or hardcore minded server/group/player(s).

I witnessed a sqaud of 50 that included 30 scourge and they were gettgin 1 pushed.... (why? i hear you say) Commander was backpedaling, ranged were stacked behind commander so not in range to do dmg and the other team were way more aggressive in flanking pushes including there warrior bubbles/engauges.

The game has very few experienced people left in it and they tend to want to play with like minded/capable players...hence why good teams attract good players. And thats why you are getting 1 pushed or you feel condis is an issue, the skill difference between players/commanders on some servers can be huge.

Last week, fsp and gandara were enjoying fights for hours on end as there skill lvl was similar, however on most occasions WSR were bored with no fights as they were 1 pushing everything and enemy either had no commander or were hiding. (i think it is called Vabbi syndrome lel)

If people/commanders mentality changed then it woudlnt feel like power/condi is OP. Rather than try other things or get more organised its far easier to blame condi/power, pugs or composition then tag off.

'we tried everything but they still 1 pushed us' however fact was they literally did the same thing 10 times in a row and expected a change to occur.

People dont take criticim/feedback well usually, they get easily offended when there ability is questioned. People playing this game for 6 years and still making the same poor decisions and teaching newer players bad habits, for example Lazy Peon (youtuber) saying in one of his videos "its important for all players to stack on the commander tag"....... lmao, Yeah plz stack 50 on tag so i can easily kite your mindless zombie ball and bomb that 1 spot and kill you all.

p.s for all the firebrands out there that dont support your party or die first push..... you are probably another reason why this post occurs QQ CONDI lel.

[Rezzet.3614]

condition damage is ok, condition spam on the other hand is a problem, conditions offer more than just damage such as weakness,daze,blind, chill

[Comus.7365]

if it's not condis it'll be something else that they'll stack.. it's the nature of blob fights. they could nerf everything into the ground and make you hit eachother with wet noodles.. it's just a matter of who's got the most noodles and in some cases who's got the better aim.

[Xenash.1245]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Xenash.1245 said:I don't think we should really ever be looking at things in this manner and instead be seeing how many counters power/condition based builds have and how easily accessible those counters are.

I will say though that dealing with a mass of scourges in a blob, feels like I'm being forced to lick Satan's taint.

Edit: I'm rather indifferent, only voted yes because of my feelings on scourges in a blob.

More than 50% of the damage in the blobs I play with is power. Opinion?

I don't really doubt that all, I was just voicing my opinion as to how I felt about scourges, they're not the worst thing ever by far but they're still annoying to deal with when clumped up. Personally I'd like a lot of things changed in WvW be it power/conditions so that there's a greater variety of builds across the board instead of everyone running the same general specs.

[Comus.7365]

@Xenash.1245 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Xenash.1245 said:I don't think we should really ever be looking at things in this manner and instead be seeing how many counters power/condition based builds have and how easily accessible those counters are.

I will say though that dealing with a mass of scourges in a blob, feels like I'm being forced to lick Satan's taint.

Edit: I'm rather indifferent, only voted yes because of my feelings on scourges in a blob.

More than 50% of the damage in the blobs I play with is power. Opinion?

I don't really doubt that all, I was just voicing my opinion as to how I felt about scourges, they're not the worst thing ever by far but they're still annoying to deal with when clumped up. Personally I'd like a lot of things changed in WvW be it power/conditions so that there's a greater variety of builds across the board instead of everyone running the same general specs.

i'm pretty new at this so here's some thought from running around in WvW for a couple of days.add some spread mechanics maybe?encourage people to group up but not mindlessly(blobs)skirmishes should be the most rewarding thing.i may add more as i encounter them but those where some initial thoughts.as a new player it's easy to fall for the "follow the tag" gameplay and if that happens it's easy to get bored/lost if there's not one around.

[Simonoly.4352]

Condition damage can be potent in very small scale roaming when you're caught with your pants down without a sensible cleanse option. Otherwise its attributable for a tiny numbers of death compared to direct damage. Can't remember the last time I actually died to conditions alone.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Yeah. I'll answer no when I'm no longer getting condi spammed from stealth, evades, and at range.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

no, not really. in zerg figtht's its all about class stacking and when you have 15 scourge's then ofc you're going to melt stuff. remember the time when symbolic avenger trait was bugged? look how fast them gates melted because of guardian stacking (not a very good example but you get the point)

[DeceiverX.8361]

It's never really been a damage issue (Aside from pre-nerf reaper, pre-confusion-rework, and condi mirage) so much as Dire/TB gear allowing full damage builds which ignore armor to also run tank stats.

Conditions are more problematic right now than ever just because of the sheer amount of spamming of control effects.

Perma-weakness/cripple/vuln/chill ruins fights.

[LetoII.3782]

Only 70% scourgeses in this blob time to ragelog

[Lahmia.2193]

@LetoII.3782 said:Only 70% scourgeses in this blob time to ragelog

A sizable part of Grieving scourges damage is power, just saying.

[Rezzet.3614]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:Only 70% scourgeses in this blob time to ragelog

A sizable part of Grieving scourges damage is power, just saying.

yep i play serk scourge anddump 8k Pulses with my aoe

scourge's problem is simply the massive aoe coverage , drop nukes, get back, drop nukes rinse and repeat

conditions are there to act as anti heals and cc and anti offense via weakness blind or whatever

[Etheri.5406]

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"LetoII.3782" said:Only 70% scourgeses in this blob time to ragelog

A sizable part of Grieving scourges damage is power, just saying.

yep i play serk scourge anddump 8k Pulses with my aoe

"I voted condi is OP, I take the only condi class and play it power" It does 8k pulses!I'm sorry you're not doing 8k pulses per pulse on your zerk scourge, just saying.I also really don't grasp how you can say condi is OP, take the best condi class, play it on full zerk and still try to reason that... condi is OP. I guess it's just not fun for you to play something so OP so you have to play it zerk :trollface:

scourge's problem is simply the massive aoe coverage , drop nukes, get back, drop nukes rinse and repeat

Which massive AoE coverage? If the AoE coverage was the issue, ele would be 100x more OP than scourge. I mean my ele auto attacks hit 8k+... Meteo hits double that with some RNG. Scourge using their spike for 8k damage every 15-30s? Whooptedy fucking doo. If fights go longer than 1 minute (I know, it's hard to not get one pushed) then the cd of meteor is lower than the CD of a single shadespike.

Don't even think about mentioning weapon skills; marks are purely utility and axe / offhand or scepter / offhand are there for corrupts and utility more than straight damage too. Scourge is OP because it has high corrupts, which is required to bomb, and each offensive skill doubles as defensive. You either cleanse, or barrier, or both.

It's not the raw damage or the condi that's an issue; it's the combination of damage corrupts and supports all in one build to excessive degrees. Frankly one shade bomb every 30 seconds isn't that much AoE.

conditions are there to act as anti heals and cc and anti offense via weakness blind or whatever

The only part you said that's kinda accurate. Altho conditions can also do this thing called damage. Also the best conditions are still soft CC, not blinds or weakness.

[Peutrifectus.4830]

Reign in the power creep. Crunch some numbers to reign in the elite specs.

[coro.3176]

It's just certain builds (scourge, condi mirage) that are still overperforming.

It's 100% not "condi" as a whole. If you don't believe me, try running condi rev or condi ranger or engi.

[MihaiSnm.9275]

ofc it is, you cant even survive a condi shower from 1 dude if you dont take with you atleast 2 condi cleanse which is totally bs. The power damage is out of control as well, full tanks get melted in a matter of seconds. Basically every pof elite spec does this, but anet has to eat too i guess by overtuning every new elite spec like always to grab the cash, fuck balance let's all have overpowered classes, one button press 10 condies or oneshot. Imo condies should be fully supportive and in no way offensive since it's extremely effective with gear that gives you toughness vit and condi dmg lol meanwhile a soldier full build would get you no crit no dmg and you'll still die cuz you are melee range.

[Rezzet.3614]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"LetoII.3782" said:Only 70% scourgeses in this blob time to ragelog

A sizable part of Grieving scourges damage is power, just saying.

yep i play serk scourge anddump 8k Pulses with my aoe

"I voted condi is OP, I take the only condi class and play it power" It does 8k pulses!I'm sorry you're not doing 8k pulses per pulse on your zerk scourge, just saying.I also really don't grasp how you can say condi is OP, take the best condi class, play it on full zerk and still try to reason that... condi is OP. I guess it's just not fun for you to play something so OP so you have to play it zerk :trollface:

scourge's problem is simply the massive aoe coverage , drop nukes, get back, drop nukes rinse and repeat

Which massive AoE coverage? If the AoE coverage was the issue, ele would be 100x more OP than scourge. I mean my ele auto attacks hit 8k+... Meteo hits double that with some RNG. Scourge using their spike for 8k damage every 15-30s? Whooptedy kitten doo. If fights go longer than 1 minute (I know, it's hard to not get one pushed) then the cd of meteor is lower than the CD of a single shadespike.

Don't even think about mentioning weapon skills; marks are purely utility and axe / offhand or scepter / offhand are there for corrupts and utility more than straight damage too. Scourge is OP because it has high corrupts, which is required to bomb, and each offensive skill doubles as defensive. You either cleanse, or barrier, or both.

It's not the raw damage or the condi that's an issue; it's the combination of damage corrupts and supports all in one build to excessive degrees. Frankly one shade bomb every 30 seconds isn't that much AoE.

conditions are there to act as anti heals and cc and anti offense via weakness blind or whatever

The only part you said that's kinda accurate. Altho conditions can also do this thing called damage. Also the best conditions are still soft CC, not blinds or weakness.

well y ou clearly havent played the game properly if you cant tell some conditions shut down enemies even if they dont kill themChill Greatly slows enemy movement and adds 66% cooldown duration on skillsWeakness drops 50% of power attacks by 50% damage and drops endurance regen by 50%poison counters healsetc etc etc...by aoe coverage i mean the 300 radius around the scourge and the 300 from the shadein the case of scourge its not just a matter of damage however they also provide support allies via barrier and further oppress enemies via boon corruption

and while i mentioned scourge it doesnt mean scourge is the sole reason why i think conditions are over tuned

and you're correct im not doing 8k damage on my serk scourge because i am running half Viper gearall it takes is 3 button presses to unless said damage you figure out the rest

but yeah im not stating that condition OP becuz scurge , i mentioned something about the profession but that doesnt mean that scourge is why i think condi OP, theres a whole lot more to it

[Etheri.5406]

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"LetoII.3782" said:Only 70% scourgeses in this blob time to ragelog

A sizable part of Grieving scourges damage is power, just saying.

yep i play serk scourge anddump 8k Pulses with my aoe

"I voted condi is OP, I take the only condi class and play it power" It does 8k pulses!I'm sorry you're not doing 8k pulses per pulse on your zerk scourge, just saying.I also really don't grasp how you can say condi is OP, take the best condi class, play it on full zerk and still try to reason that... condi is OP. I guess it's just not fun for you to play something so OP so you have to play it zerk :trollface:

scourge's problem is simply the massive aoe coverage , drop nukes, get back, drop nukes rinse and repeat

Which massive AoE coverage? If the AoE coverage was the issue, ele would be 100x more OP than scourge. I mean my ele auto attacks hit 8k+... Meteo hits double that with some RNG. Scourge using their spike for 8k damage every 15-30s? Whooptedy kitten doo. If fights go longer than 1 minute (I know, it's hard to not get one pushed) then the cd of meteor is lower than the CD of a single shadespike.

Don't even think about mentioning weapon skills; marks are purely utility and axe / offhand or scepter / offhand are there for corrupts and utility more than straight damage too. Scourge is OP because it has high corrupts, which is required to bomb, and each offensive skill doubles as defensive. You either cleanse, or barrier, or both.

It's not the raw damage or the condi that's an issue; it's the combination of damage corrupts and supports all in one build to excessive degrees. Frankly one shade bomb every 30 seconds isn't that much AoE.

conditions are there to act as anti heals and cc and anti offense via weakness blind or whatever

The only part you said that's kinda accurate. Altho conditions can also do this thing called damage. Also the best conditions are still soft CC, not blinds or weakness.

well y ou clearly havent played the game properly if you cant tell some conditions shut down enemies even if they dont kill them

Chill Greatly slows enemy movement and adds 66% cooldown duration on skillsWeakness drops 50% of power attacks by 50% damage and drops endurance regen by 50%poison counters healsetc etc etc...

I clearly state the ONLY part of your post that makes some sense is that. I clearly state that some of the best conditions are soft CC ones; not blind or even weakness. Not sure what this replies to?

by aoe coverage i mean the 300 radius around the scourge and the 300 from the shadein the case of scourge its not just a matter of damage however they also provide support allies via barrier and further oppress enemies via boon corruption

and while i mentioned scourge it doesnt mean scourge is the sole reason why i think conditions are over tuned

"By AoE coverage I mean 300 radius + 300 radius". Nice. Wanna add up the radii and CD's and compare to weaver? I'd say weaver wins. So we come back to... it's really the mix of boonstrip / barrier / damage / support rather than AoE coverage? Nice, i'm glad we're being accurate. I'm glad you instantly admit that's how it works and go "that's what I meant" rephrasing what I said to you.

and you're correct im not doing 8k damage on my serk scourge because i am running half Viper gearall it takes is 3 button presses to unless said damage you figure out the rest

So now it's "zerk" but really half viper. And you're not doing 8k per pulse. You're doing 8k in total, which is ... well really bad to be honest. If you were doing 8k per pulse it'd be broken and scourges would be running zerk; but it is not. Also zerk is bad. Viper is bad. I wanna say you'll figure it out but I highly doubt that...

but yeah im not stating that condition OP becuz scurge , i mentioned something about the profession but that doesnt mean that scourge is why i think condi OP, theres a whole lot more to it

So you said condi is OP, it's not about scourge and a lot more to it, you won't say anything about that.

I'm waiting for an actual argument as to why condi is op. You play POWER on the most condi heavy zerg class in the game; and the only part of "condi is op" that I see here is how you have... cover conditions?

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

I voted yes....But I also wanted to say no.

It's given classes and specific builds that are an issue. Condi dmg used to be an extra DOT, not a main dmg dealer, with buffs to condi and builds this has changed big time, not only has condi reached power levels of dmg, but you can run defensive stats while doing it, and the builds can have VERY high survivability and escape in roaming. I main DH, so many unblockables in the game now, and I run around with 16k HP. I rolled a condi Mirage last week, exotic gear only, not only does it do higher spike dmg than my DH (and WAY easier to land), it has more HP and armor, its dmg sustain is also insane. But that is not even the problem, it's evades for days, stealth, stuns, blinds, ports, leaps, more ports, reflects, more spamable stuns, target breaks, clones, invulnerability. The problem is spam, I have to setup my burst on DH, block? Bust fail. Stab? Burst fail. Dodge? Burst fail. etc etc and when that burst fails, its on a long (30sec) CD, as most dmg comes from a single trap. The dmg on Mirage however, is just constant spam, is easy to land, and can be done over and over.

I will admit that right now, I have very little idea of what I am doing on the build, and don't have much of a rotation, and I am face rolling people. DH isn't bad, but it's no where near where it was, I am honestly thinking about maining Mirage because of how OP it is.

I am picking on Mirage yes, but that is because I just rolled one, and it's one of the bigger offenders. Give me a few weeks on playing it to adjust and get a rotation/counters down and it's going to be down right stupid. I have waited and waited for the meta to change and something to be done about these builds, but anet doesn't get it.....So I might as well join the fun.

[Rezzet.3614]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"LetoII.3782" said:Only 70% scourgeses in this blob time to ragelog

A sizable part of Grieving scourges damage is power, just saying.

yep i play serk scourge anddump 8k Pulses with my aoe

"I voted condi is OP, I take the only condi class and play it power" It does 8k pulses!I'm sorry you're not doing 8k pulses per pulse on your zerk scourge, just saying.I also really don't grasp how you can say condi is OP, take the best condi class, play it on full zerk and still try to reason that... condi is OP. I guess it's just not fun for you to play something so OP so you have to play it zerk :trollface:

scourge's problem is simply the massive aoe coverage , drop nukes, get back, drop nukes rinse and repeat

Which massive AoE coverage? If the AoE coverage was the issue, ele would be 100x more OP than scourge. I mean my ele auto attacks hit 8k+... Meteo hits double that with some RNG. Scourge using their spike for 8k damage every 15-30s? Whooptedy kitten doo. If fights go longer than 1 minute (I know, it's hard to not get one pushed) then the cd of meteor is lower than the CD of a single shadespike.

Don't even think about mentioning weapon skills; marks are purely utility and axe / offhand or scepter / offhand are there for corrupts and utility more than straight damage too. Scourge is OP because it has high corrupts, which is required to bomb, and each offensive skill doubles as defensive. You either cleanse, or barrier, or both.

It's not the raw damage or the condi that's an issue; it's the combination of damage corrupts and supports all in one build to excessive degrees. Frankly one shade bomb every 30 seconds isn't that much AoE.

conditions are there to act as anti heals and cc and anti offense via weakness blind or whatever

The only part you said that's kinda accurate. Altho conditions can also do this thing called damage. Also the best conditions are still soft CC, not blinds or weakness.

well y ou clearly havent played the game properly if you cant tell some conditions shut down enemies even if they dont kill them

Chill Greatly slows enemy movement and adds 66% cooldown duration on skillsWeakness drops 50% of power attacks by 50% damage and drops endurance regen by 50%poison counters healsetc etc etc...

I clearly state the ONLY part of your post that makes some sense is that. I clearly state that some of the best conditions are soft CC ones; not blind or even weakness. Not sure what this replies to?

by aoe coverage i mean the 300 radius around the scourge and the 300 from the shadein the case of scourge its not just a matter of damage however they also provide support allies via barrier and further oppress enemies via boon corruption

and while i mentioned scourge it doesnt mean scourge is the sole reason why i think conditions are over tuned

"By AoE coverage I mean 300 radius + 300 radius". Nice. Wanna add up the radii and CD's and compare to weaver? I'd say weaver wins. So we come back to... it's really the mix of boonstrip / barrier / damage / support rather than AoE coverage? Nice, i'm glad we're being accurate. I'm glad you instantly admit that's how it works and go "that's what I meant" rephrasing what I said to you.

and you're correct im not doing 8k damage on my serk scourge because i am running half Viper gearall it takes is 3 button presses to unless said damage you figure out the rest

So now it's "zerk" but really half viper. And you're not doing 8k per pulse. You're doing 8k in total, which is ... well really bad to be honest. If you were doing 8k per pulse it'd be broken and scourges would be running zerk; but it is not. Also zerk is bad. Viper is bad. I wanna say you'll figure it out but I highly doubt that...

but yeah im not stating that condition OP becuz scurge , i mentioned something about the profession but that doesnt mean that scourge is why i think condi OP, theres a whole lot more to it

So you said condi is OP, it's not about scourge and a lot more to it, you won't say anything about that.

I'm waiting for an actual argument as to why condi is op. You play POWER on the most condi heavy zerg class in the game; and the only part of "condi is op" that I see here is how you have... cover conditions?

alright can run bunker while having max condition damage

some professions apply conditions nonstop to such levels its just not worth bothering cleansing them

some professions allow for little to no counter play because of disruptive condition spam such as daze

then theres profession design , most conditions are applied at long range, some professions are highly mobile have teleports or shadow steps , some can transfer conditions back at enemies ontop of having access to a large arsenal of conditions

then theres stuff like runes of perplexity

also the current design of conditions

theres cripple,chill and torment,immobilize,slow punishing movementthen theres confusion,chill,daze,slow punishing skill usage and evadetaunt and stun prevent both

so yea not all condi is op but in some builds there's some problems.

[Etheri.5406]

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"LetoII.3782" said:Only 70% scourgeses in this blob time to ragelog

A sizable part of Grieving scourges damage is power, just saying.

yep i play serk scourge anddump 8k Pulses with my aoe

"I voted condi is OP, I take the only condi class and play it power" It does 8k pulses!I'm sorry you're not doing 8k pulses per pulse on your zerk scourge, just saying.I also really don't grasp how you can say condi is OP, take the best condi class, play it on full zerk and still try to reason that... condi is OP. I guess it's just not fun for you to play something so OP so you have to play it zerk :trollface:

scourge's problem is simply the massive aoe coverage , drop nukes, get back, drop nukes rinse and repeat

Which massive AoE coverage? If the AoE coverage was the issue, ele would be 100x more OP than scourge. I mean my ele auto attacks hit 8k+... Meteo hits double that with some RNG. Scourge using their spike for 8k damage every 15-30s? Whooptedy kitten doo. If fights go longer than 1 minute (I know, it's hard to not get one pushed) then the cd of meteor is lower than the CD of a single shadespike.

Don't even think about mentioning weapon skills; marks are purely utility and axe / offhand or scepter / offhand are there for corrupts and utility more than straight damage too. Scourge is OP because it has high corrupts, which is required to bomb, and each offensive skill doubles as defensive. You either cleanse, or barrier, or both.

It's not the raw damage or the condi that's an issue; it's the combination of damage corrupts and supports all in one build to excessive degrees. Frankly one shade bomb every 30 seconds isn't that much AoE.

conditions are there to act as anti heals and cc and anti offense via weakness blind or whatever

The only part you said that's kinda accurate. Altho conditions can also do this thing called damage. Also the best conditions are still soft CC, not blinds or weakness.

well y ou clearly havent played the game properly if you cant tell some conditions shut down enemies even if they dont kill them

Chill Greatly slows enemy movement and adds 66% cooldown duration on skillsWeakness drops 50% of power attacks by 50% damage and drops endurance regen by 50%poison counters healsetc etc etc...

I clearly state the ONLY part of your post that makes some sense is that. I clearly state that some of the best conditions are soft CC ones; not blind or even weakness. Not sure what this replies to?

by aoe coverage i mean the 300 radius around the scourge and the 300 from the shadein the case of scourge its not just a matter of damage however they also provide support allies via barrier and further oppress enemies via boon corruption

and while i mentioned scourge it doesnt mean scourge is the sole reason why i think conditions are over tuned

"By AoE coverage I mean 300 radius + 300 radius". Nice. Wanna add up the radii and CD's and compare to weaver? I'd say weaver wins. So we come back to... it's really the mix of boonstrip / barrier / damage / support rather than AoE coverage? Nice, i'm glad we're being accurate. I'm glad you instantly admit that's how it works and go "that's what I meant" rephrasing what I said to you.

and you're correct im not doing 8k damage on my serk scourge because i am running half Viper gearall it takes is 3 button presses to unless said damage you figure out the rest

So now it's "zerk" but really half viper. And you're not doing 8k per pulse. You're doing 8k in total, which is ... well really bad to be honest. If you were doing 8k per pulse it'd be broken and scourges would be running zerk; but it is not. Also zerk is bad. Viper is bad. I wanna say you'll figure it out but I highly doubt that...

but yeah im not stating that condition OP becuz scurge , i mentioned something about the profession but that doesnt mean that scourge is why i think condi OP, theres a whole lot more to it

So you said condi is OP, it's not about scourge and a lot more to it, you won't say anything about that.

I'm waiting for an actual argument as to why condi is op. You play POWER on the most condi heavy zerg class in the game; and the only part of "condi is op" that I see here is how you have... cover conditions?

some professions apply conditions nonstop to such levels its just not worth bothering cleansing them

?????

some professions allow for little to no counter play because of disruptive condition spam such as daze

Daze is a condition now? Nice! Cleansing the daze bois!

then theres profession design , most conditions are applied at long range, some professions are highly mobile have teleports or shadow steps , some can transfer conditions back at enemies ontop of having access to a large arsenal of conditions

Conditions can be applied at range? That does sound OP. And some classes have mobility? Yeah that also makes condies OP.

then theres stuff like runes of perplexity

Runes of perplexity exist. Nice!

also the current design of conditionstheres cripple,chill and torment,immobilize,slow punishing movementthen theres confusion,chill,daze,slow punishing skill usage and evadeso yea not all condi is op but in some builds there's some problems.

There are damaging condies and they hurt me, soft CC condies and they stop me from running away and others that prevent me from fighting back. Clearly condi counters everything and it's super duper OP.

Thanks for the explenation. It was clear and concise. I understand your reasoning completely.

[Rezzet.3614]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"LetoII.3782" said:Only 70% scourgeses in this blob time to ragelog

A sizable part of Grieving scourges damage is power, just saying.

yep i play serk scourge anddump 8k Pulses with my aoe

"I voted condi is OP, I take the only condi class and play it power" It does 8k pulses!I'm sorry you're not doing 8k pulses per pulse on your zerk scourge, just saying.I also really don't grasp how you can say condi is OP, take the best condi class, play it on full zerk and still try to reason that... condi is OP. I guess it's just not fun for you to play something so OP so you have to play it zerk :trollface:

scourge's problem is simply the massive aoe coverage , drop nukes, get back, drop nukes rinse and repeat

Which massive AoE coverage? If the AoE coverage was the issue, ele would be 100x more OP than scourge. I mean my ele auto attacks hit 8k+... Meteo hits double that with some RNG. Scourge using their spike for 8k damage every 15-30s? Whooptedy kitten doo. If fights go longer than 1 minute (I know, it's hard to not get one pushed) then the cd of meteor is lower than the CD of a single shadespike.

Don't even think about mentioning weapon skills; marks are purely utility and axe / offhand or scepter / offhand are there for corrupts and utility more than straight damage too. Scourge is OP because it has high corrupts, which is required to bomb, and each offensive skill doubles as defensive. You either cleanse, or barrier, or both.

It's not the raw damage or the condi that's an issue; it's the combination of damage corrupts and supports all in one build to excessive degrees. Frankly one shade bomb every 30 seconds isn't that much AoE.

conditions are there to act as anti heals and cc and anti offense via weakness blind or whatever

The only part you said that's kinda accurate. Altho conditions can also do this thing called damage. Also the best conditions are still soft CC, not blinds or weakness.

well y ou clearly havent played the game properly if you cant tell some conditions shut down enemies even if they dont kill them

Chill Greatly slows enemy movement and adds 66% cooldown duration on skillsWeakness drops 50% of power attacks by 50% damage and drops endurance regen by 50%poison counters healsetc etc etc...

I clearly state the ONLY part of your post that makes some sense is that. I clearly state that some of the best conditions are soft CC ones; not blind or even weakness. Not sure what this replies to?

by aoe coverage i mean the 300 radius around the scourge and the 300 from the shadein the case of scourge its not just a matter of damage however they also provide support allies via barrier and further oppress enemies via boon corruption

and while i mentioned scourge it doesnt mean scourge is the sole reason why i think conditions are over tuned

"By AoE coverage I mean 300 radius + 300 radius". Nice. Wanna add up the radii and CD's and compare to weaver? I'd say weaver wins. So we come back to... it's really the mix of boonstrip / barrier / damage / support rather than AoE coverage? Nice, i'm glad we're being accurate. I'm glad you instantly admit that's how it works and go "that's what I meant" rephrasing what I said to you.

and you're correct im not doing 8k damage on my serk scourge because i am running half Viper gearall it takes is 3 button presses to unless said damage you figure out the rest

So now it's "zerk" but really half viper. And you're not doing 8k per pulse. You're doing 8k in total, which is ... well really bad to be honest. If you were doing 8k per pulse it'd be broken and scourges would be running zerk; but it is not. Also zerk is bad. Viper is bad. I wanna say you'll figure it out but I highly doubt that...

but yeah im not stating that condition OP becuz scurge , i mentioned something about the profession but that doesnt mean that scourge is why i think condi OP, theres a whole lot more to it

So you said condi is OP, it's not about scourge and a lot more to it, you won't say anything about that.

I'm waiting for an actual argument as to why condi is op. You play POWER on the most condi heavy zerg class in the game; and the only part of "condi is op" that I see here is how you have... cover conditions?

some professions apply conditions nonstop to such levels its just not worth bothering cleansing them

?????

some professions allow for little to no counter play because of disruptive condition spam such as daze

Daze is a condition now? Nice! Cleansing the daze bois!

then theres profession design , most conditions are applied at long range, some professions are highly mobile have teleports or shadow steps , some can transfer conditions back at enemies ontop of having access to a large arsenal of conditions

Conditions can be applied at range? That does sound OP. And some classes have mobility? Yeah that also makes condies OP.

then theres stuff like runes of perplexity

Runes of perplexity exist. Nice!

also the current design of conditionstheres cripple,chill and torment,immobilize,slow punishing movementthen theres confusion,chill,daze,slow punishing skill usage and evadeso yea not all condi is op but in some builds there's some problems.

There are damaging condies and they hurt me, soft CC condies and they stop me from running away and others that prevent me from fighting back. Clearly condi counters everything and it's super duper OP.

Thanks for the explenation. It was clear and concise. I understand your reasoning completely.

snarky response

what you said is invalid because i dint accept it and my opinion is the one that matters

solid logic right there , should try running politics.

why dont you try elaborate as to why condition spam is Absolutely Perfectly Balanced

because i said it is imbalanced in some cases you are flat out saying it is all perfect.

[Etheri.5406]

I'm not saying it's perfect; I'm saying the balance between condition damage and power damage in zergs is relatively even. Condies themselves are not as obnoxious as they were before as long as you spec appropriately in zergs.

If players choose not to, then obviously they will (and should) die to these conditions. The only condi class is scourge and while scourge is still very, very strong it's strength isn't "too much condition damage" but rather doing too much at once. There are no other oppresive condi classes in zergs whatsoever.

Roaming mirage is an issue and trailblazer / dire is more of a problem than "condi" itself.