GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

A comment concerning JP’s claim that her firing is about sexism. Another man fired for twitter posts, and he wasn’t even posting on an account with his workplace identified. James Gunn fired for offensive tweets.

No JP it wasn’t sexism that got you fired. It was not following company policy concerning ANet’s customers in how you respond to them while repping ANet.

(I didn’t post a link to the James Gunn tweets as the ones I saw were about pedophilia and even a link would probably get this post deleted.)

[maddoctor.2738]

I think anyone that still believes JP was fired due to "sexism" or that "sexism" exists in Arenanet (maybe it does, but it's certainly not visible in any way) needs a reality check because it's not an argument that stands to logic.

[Sondergaard.8469]

At the end of the day, ArenaNet held two of their devs to the same standards they hold their players. Zero tolerance for toxicity. It's a policy that was implemented a long time ago, and one I personally agree with. Regardless of her reasons, be it a bad day or a long term issue, her reaction was so far on the extreme side of things it became toxic. It's even harder to defend this as a 'one off' occasion when she has illustrated a history of very toxic and hateful comments with little to no provocation.

Example: Telling a widow to commit suicide because she was offended that JP was celebrating her husband's death.

Apply this line of conversation to any player in Guild Wars 2, and say they got reported. What do you think would happen? It's very easy to see why, when they are trying to enforce these rules against toxicity and promote less toxicity in gaming in general, that they would hold their devs to an even HIGHER standard, because they are supposed to setting the example for everyone else.

It becomes much harder to enforce those rules when you have someone on your own team undermining that image.

[The Knight of Hope.8023]

@Sondergaard.8469 And, y'know, a little courtesy and professionalism goes a long way to convince people who don't like each other to agree to disagree in civil society. The fact that a large segment of our population does not expect public figures they admire to act courteously and professionally when representing their values tells us a lot about the quality of their ideas. We cannot hope to build better relationships and a better future by allowing ourselves to embrace treating other people the way this lady chose to treat the gentleman on Twitter. It's just not possible.

[Zaklex.6308]

@The Knight of Hope.8023 said:@IndigoSundown.5419 The issue here is misbehavior, not the content of the conversation. If you would, imagine for a moment what would have happened if this had been a male ArenaNET employee who accused a woman of being up to no good based on the fact that she was female. The ideologues here who are upset with ArenaNET over this lady's firing would've thrown them a parade in the streets for getting rid of that guy. None of the pretext they're basing their defense of her on now would be applied in the same way to the gentleman in that other scenario. The reality is, what she did is indefensible under any circumstances. It's not ethical to libel someone and represent your company poorly in public in order to make yourself feel powerful when someone criticizes you or makes you feel bad about yourself. Even if he had been being rude, it would still be a malicious and negligent overreaction. No company on Earth wants to be forced to associate with someone who mistreats their customers and their partners that way and puts their future at risk. It's not fair to the other people at ArenaNET or the investors who depend on ArenaNET for them to have to suffer the consequences of her bad behavior. For once, we need to think about accountability in terms of actions and consequences, instead of the pretenses those actions were taken under.

JP said nothing that can be considered libel in a court of law, at least not the U.S....unless name calling is now considered libel(which it isn't). No one would have suffered had they taken the time to wait for the Supervisors to return and decide what to do with a level head instead of emotionally, a simple suspension behind closed doors and advising the community it had been handled internally would have sufficed(except for the non-GW2 blowhards that infiltrated the call for her head). Civility is dead, it has been for ages, there's no chance on bringing it back unless you want to return to the time of knights and kings...no, wait, it didn't exist then either...battles and arguments have been fought since the beginning of time, civility never wins in the end. You don't have to act courteous and professional to agree to disagree either, people do it all the time and still remain hostile towards each other, besides the fact you don't have to like the people you work with, just work with them(it really isn't that hard to work with someone you dislike, I have to do it all the time).

[The Knight of Hope.8023]

@Zaklex.6308 The definition of libel is a false accusation made in print. Libel is a civil dispute, so it covers a wide range of false allegations. Most libel suits are settled outside of court or are dismissed because it's difficult to prove damages, which is the standard of judgment in a civil proceeding. If the lady who libeled this man had instead chosen to libel someone with a high profile like Pewdiepie or Elon Musk, and had managed to get her message out to enough people to impact their businesses, she would be much more likely to be finding herself in civil court right now. I actually find it pretty disturbing that there are those who would accept this kind of character assassination on behalf of their ideological agenda. Of course, no matter the impact or the viability of a lawsuit, libeling or slandering someone simply isn't okay. If it had been you who she had accused of being up to no good based upon your maleness or femaleness, I would consider that just as malicious as if she had done it to anybody else. I would hope that you would feel the same way.

[Zaklex.6308]

@The Knight of Hope.8023 said:@Zaklex.6308 The definition of libel is a false accusation made in print. Libel is a civil dispute, so it covers a wide range of false allegations. Most libel suits are settled outside of court or are dismissed because it's difficult to prove damages, which is the standard of judgment in a civil proceeding. If the lady who libeled this man had instead chosen to libel someone with a high profile like Pewdiepie or Elon Musk, and had managed to get her message out to enough people to impact their businesses, she would be much more likely to be finding herself in civil court right now. I actually find it pretty disturbing that there are those who would accept this kind of character assassination on behalf of their ideological agenda. Of course, no matter the impact or the viability of a lawsuit, libeling or slandering someone simply isn't okay. If it had been you who she had accused of being up to no good based upon your maleness or femaleness, I would consider that just as malicious as if she had done it to anybody else. I would hope that you would feel the same way.

If calling someone a sexist is going to be considered libel, then we're opening a huge can of worms here, because basically you'd be saying that anything you call someone else could be called libel. Honestly though, people can call me what ever they want, don't care, the people that know me, my friends, family, some co-workers, they know who I am, the rest, they're immaterial, they're nobodies so I don't care what they think of me, so it's going to be pretty hard for someone to libel me personally...unless it's an outright lie that I can prove is false, but a label, some of those are hard to disprove.

[The Knight of Hope.8023]

@Zaklex.6308 What is or isn't libel is not subject to feelings or opinions. Just because you don't feel that you have to worry about your own well-being when it comes to libel doesn't mean you're entitled to decide that it's not a malicious and destructive thing to do. Furthermore, it is a very serious thing to publish a false accusation assassinating someone's character as a hater or bigot on social media. People's lives can be and are ruined by defamation on a daily basis, cutting them off from society and limiting or denying them the ability to maintain employment. The fact that there are people defending this woman for having done this who don't care about these consequences for no other reason than the fact that they share her ideology is horrifying and inexcusable. It's certainly not helping anyone's case that it was okay for her to do what she did, quite the opposite.

[Zaklex.6308]

@The Knight of Hope.8023
All I'm saying is it's a lot different to call someone a murderer when they aren't or accuse them of being a thief vs. calling them a sexist or bigot, once again, it comes down to a matter of context. I'm not really defending her, she should've just ignored the comment, but he also could've written a little differently so as to remove any remote possibility of it being construed as sexist, but that would've taken having English as your first language, and then assuming that the person you're addressing might see it as sexist...and we all know what happens when you assume(hey, just like JP did, she assumed and look what happened).

[maddoctor.2738]

@Zaklex.6308 said:@The Knight of Hope.8023

All I'm saying is it's a lot different to call someone a murderer when they aren't or accuse them of being a thief vs. calling them a sexist or bigot, once again, it comes down to a matter of context. I'm not really defending her, she should've just ignored the comment, but he also could've written a little differently so as to remove any remote possibility of it being construed as sexist, but that would've taken having English as your first language, and then assuming that the person you're addressing might see it as sexist...and we all know what happens when you assume(hey, just like JP did, she assumed and look what happened).

I guess that's why there was an apology by Deroir once he figured she was offended by his tweet. But that was disregarded too, and nearly 1 hour later there was an attack on the community itself. The important part is that she said far worse things in the past, but Arenanet let it pass, because it didn't affect her job, Guild Wars 2, or Arenanet as a company. Which shows that Arenanet actually cares about their employees and lets them keep their social media separate from work. People have been fired by other companies for what they type(d) on social media, even though their tweets weren't in response to their work, so we can say that Arenanet has a very lenient policy towards their employees.

[The Knight of Hope.8023]

@Zaklex.6308 I'm glad you're not defending this person, but please consider: There is only a difference in your mind. Falsely accusing others of race or gender based discrimination is defamation, and can destroy their lives. The only reason why anyone is defending this lady here is because they agree with her politics. And the fact that they would okay with it, even happy about it, if her accusations were to destroy his reputation and ruin his life says a lot about who they are and what they hope to accomplish. We cannot afford to let people off the hook for behaving this way, regardless of whether or not we agree with their ideas. I can't afford it, you can't afford it, society can't afford it. It's not sustainable.

[morrolan.9608]

@Sondergaard.8469 said:At the end of the day, ArenaNet held two of their devs to the same standards they hold their players. Zero tolerance for toxicity.

Man thats funny try pvping or wvwing and see what gets said. 1000 times worse than what Price said.

[The Knight of Hope.8023]

@morrolan.9608 For once I actually agree with you; I don't think it's fair to claim ArenaNET holds the players to the same standards as their employees. Of course, we're all paying customers with no platform and who don't represent the company in public. We're not supposed to be held to standards of professionalism and stewardship, because we have no power, affiliation or visibility. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Being vicious and libelous in public and being vicious and libelous in public to the customers and partners of a company that you're known to represent are two entirely different things.

[Loli Ruri.8307]

Why are we still discussing this?

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

Why are we still discussing this?

they say 2 days later

[Bloodstealer.5978]

I am of the opinion that any customer facing company in the world should now use the JP Twitter Feed in their new employee induction training program. This would allow them to show employees how NOT to conduct yourself and what IS NOT acceptable behaviour .. whilst making the whole induction experience just that little bit more fun. Cos reading her latest twitter storm, does nothing but make me chuckle hard.She is clearly running out of ammunition and stretching for support by her fingertips. I cant believe any company would be willing to consider hiring this person now, she is clearly far too much work for not a lot of gain...

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

how is everything a gender issue with her?

Literally no one cares if she is female or a dolphin!

[yann.1946]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:how is everything a gender issue with her?

Literally no one cares if she is female or a dolphin!

We'll a part of her following and media cares. Otherwise this wouldn't have blown up.

I agree their was very little to support the sexism claim tho

[SpaceMarine.1836]

I have hard time understanding people who still support her even after this recent twitter barrage of hers. She just doesn't appear to be a sane, mentally stable person.

[The Knight of Hope.8023]

@"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:how is everything a gender issue with her?

Literally no one cares if she is female or a dolphin!

This is the frame within which ideologues like her believe the world operates. She accused the guy who was providing her polite feedback of being up to no good based only upon the fact that he was male as her sole piece of evidence. They believe exactly the thing that they accuse other people of believing: That everyone who looks or thinks differently from them are bad people who are out to get them. The only way they justify their bad behavior is by claiming other people behaved badly first and thus deserved it. When you boil this ideology down, it's the same erroneous reasoning used by grade school kids on the playground. "Everyone's secretly mean to me, so it's okay to be mean to them." There is a maturity problem that underpins many of these kinds of ideological movements that is not insignificant.

[Loli Ruri.8307]

I saw the quartering video today, and I'm lolzing at how she has not learned anything. Maybe she can do story writing for Starbucks or McDonalds. XD

[Zabi Zabi.3561]

@Loli Ruri.8307 said:I saw the quartering video today, and I'm lolzing at how she has not learned anything. Maybe she can do story writing for Starbucks or McDonalds. XD

there is one thing we can do and this may be a bit harsh on some players in the Living World Story waiting line (sorry folks) but maybe get in touch with a head Dev, ask them to scrap Prices ideas ENTIRELY (including the character she leaked named Cooties) and start from scratch.

This will surely put a hornet (not a bee) in her Bonnet

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Zabi Zabi.3561 said:

@Loli Ruri.8307 said:I saw the quartering video today, and I'm lolzing at how she has not learned anything. Maybe she can do story writing for Starbucks or McDonalds. XD

there is one thing we can do and this may be a bit harsh on some players in the Living World Story waiting line (sorry folks) but maybe get in touch with a head Dev, ask them to scrap Prices ideas ENTIRELY (including the character she leaked named Cooties) and start from scratch.

This will surely put a hornet (not a bee) in her Bonnet

she was not talking about a character... i think

and any work she had done is probably too far along to scrap, and therefore too expensive.

[Zabi Zabi.3561]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Zabi Zabi.3561 said:

@Loli Ruri.8307 said:I saw the quartering video today, and I'm lolzing at how she has not learned anything. Maybe she can do story writing for Starbucks or McDonalds. XD

there is one thing we can do and this may be a bit harsh on some players in the Living World Story waiting line (sorry folks) but maybe get in touch with a head Dev, ask them to scrap Prices ideas ENTIRELY (including the character she leaked named Cooties) and start from scratch.

This will surely put a hornet (not a bee) in her Bonnet

she was not talking about a character... i think

and any work she had done is probably too far along to scrap, and therefore too expensive.

well that steams my bacon... Price doesn't deserve to have anything future in GW2 to gloat over

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Zabi Zabi.3561 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Zabi Zabi.3561 said:

@Loli Ruri.8307 said:I saw the quartering video today, and I'm lolzing at how she has not learned anything. Maybe she can do story writing for Starbucks or McDonalds. XD

there is one thing we can do and this may be a bit harsh on some players in the Living World Story waiting line (sorry folks) but maybe get in touch with a head Dev, ask them to scrap Prices ideas ENTIRELY (including the character she leaked named Cooties) and start from scratch.

This will surely put a hornet (not a bee) in her Bonnet

she was not talking about a character... i think

and any work she had done is probably too far along to scrap, and therefore too expensive.

well that steams my bacon... Price doesn't deserve to have anything future in GW2 to gloat over

shes also probably going to have an easy time getting a new job too, since some company will try to score some brownie points.... until they fire her for the same reason as her last 2 jobs.... it might not be a pattern, but its damn close.