>25K from stealth in an instant and go back to stealth instantly.

[Player.9621]

its a bs cheapshot class and anyone who says oitherwise is either one of them or has never had to deal with oneanything that can oneshot with that much stealth is a joke

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I'm an apologist of just deleting stealth, already said on these forums why.But if you insist on having this kitten mechanic, just remove the capability to stack it and make it reveal you whether you attack or not. Also redesign Shadow Meld, counters to counters are just dumb to begin with.

Then they would have to Rework a lot of things and remove a lot of the counterplay to counterplay in game, like Resistance would have to not be Corruptible, Unblockables would have to be removed(since Blocks are there to counterplay Attacks), Revealed would have to be removed since Stealth is Counterplay to being targeted/seen..the list goes on

[BlueMelody.6398]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@urdriel.8496 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@urdriel.8496 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@urdriel.8496 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

huge advantage in what? 1vsX fights? i didnt know the game was about that.

Warriors don't have access to stealth and they're still arguably the easiest

and

most effective to play 1v1. The meta roaming builds for War/SB practically play the game for you. No stealth.

Does the warr do a 15k+ hit from stealth, and restealthes? If so, I would like which skill that is, so I can use it, thanks

He can break your head with 15k+ eviscerate while being invulnerable to damage and condis for 10secs , in fact any good warrior will wipe the floor with a DE thief.

DE thief is really funny for trolling people from walls, any tree, any rock, any little ramp will obstruct his shots.

I thought this was the wvw forum, no?

He can break your head with 15k+ eviscerate while being invulnerable to damage and condis for 10secs , in fact any good warrior will wipe the floor with a DE thief.

*Any half-decent DE will never get killed by a warrior since they can stealth to range and reset the fight indefinitely. No good thief should ever die to a warrior, even if they can't kill them.

fify

rush is autotargeted it will follow you even if you stealth , shield block trait could kill the DE or at least will make him to stop attacking with no DJ attacks , Spellbreaker have a ton of gap closers , antidamage skills and is virtually immune to ccs, plus usually you use marauder in WvW so they have 26k hp.

I don't know what game you're playing, but if I hit Rush on a targeted thief and he stealths before I arrive, nothing happens and zero damage. It does NOT follow a stealthed player, it loses target instantly.

I don't know where you get "tons of gap closers" from, you have the aforementioned rush, and...what, gs3 kind of, which is short range. You also have sword 2 and bull's charge (both target-based as well), which are NOT optimized for most builds and I don't use them at all. So unless I change my build 100% to counter thieves and only thieves, I have zero chance of killing a thief that doesn't totally screw up. I maintain my contention.

Clearly you're not playing gw2 then. Downes many thievs with rush I to stealth, and as for gap closers vs thief you got rush bulls charge whirling attack dagger #2 f1

You don't get to count skills/weapons that aren't really useful in a general wvw build. Daggers/swords/bulls rush are not things I would use

except

to specifically counter a thief, and I'm not changing my build for that. If the only argument you can make about "high mobility" is to build for that and not much else, then the argument holds.

I am playing gw2, and I have

never

tagged a thief with rush who stealthed after I started my rush. Never.

You do know that skills don’t show in combat log or floating numbers when you hit someone in stealth right? So you wouldn’t even know if it hits

If you have no way of knowing whether you hit and the next time you see the thief he's 5000 units away or backstabbing you out of stealth from somewhere else, then it makes zero difference. You're actually helping my argument.

No that’s not helping your argument, you can still hit them and it highlights the fact that you don’t know for a fact that you never hit them with those skills and if you had better in game knowledge you would know to follow up cc abilities like that with AAs since those will chain if you are hitting them or not, it’s pretty simple and if he is instantly attacking you or over 5000 units away(which no one Thief skill puts them that far away and requires large initiative investment and the use of multiple CDs to achieve, that means they wasted a stun break and/or tons of initiative and CDs...

Yes, I'm going to stand there flailing away at thin air while the thief laughs in stealth from over yonder. No, I'm not going to stand in the random spot where I last saw the thief attacking nothing because he's not there. GS5 is not a knockdown so even if I did actually hit him he's already gone off and resetting.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@urdriel.8496 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@urdriel.8496 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@urdriel.8496 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

huge advantage in what? 1vsX fights? i didnt know the game was about that.

Warriors don't have access to stealth and they're still arguably the easiest

and

most effective to play 1v1. The meta roaming builds for War/SB practically play the game for you. No stealth.

Does the warr do a 15k+ hit from stealth, and restealthes? If so, I would like which skill that is, so I can use it, thanks

He can break your head with 15k+ eviscerate while being invulnerable to damage and condis for 10secs , in fact any good warrior will wipe the floor with a DE thief.

DE thief is really funny for trolling people from walls, any tree, any rock, any little ramp will obstruct his shots.

I thought this was the wvw forum, no?

He can break your head with 15k+ eviscerate while being invulnerable to damage and condis for 10secs , in fact any good warrior will wipe the floor with a DE thief.

*Any half-decent DE will never get killed by a warrior since they can stealth to range and reset the fight indefinitely. No good thief should ever die to a warrior, even if they can't kill them.

fify

rush is autotargeted it will follow you even if you stealth , shield block trait could kill the DE or at least will make him to stop attacking with no DJ attacks , Spellbreaker have a ton of gap closers , antidamage skills and is virtually immune to ccs, plus usually you use marauder in WvW so they have 26k hp.

I don't know what game you're playing, but if I hit Rush on a targeted thief and he stealths before I arrive, nothing happens and zero damage. It does NOT follow a stealthed player, it loses target instantly.

I don't know where you get "tons of gap closers" from, you have the aforementioned rush, and...what, gs3 kind of, which is short range. You also have sword 2 and bull's charge (both target-based as well), which are NOT optimized for most builds and I don't use them at all. So unless I change my build 100% to counter thieves and only thieves, I have zero chance of killing a thief that doesn't totally screw up. I maintain my contention.

Clearly you're not playing gw2 then. Downes many thievs with rush I to stealth, and as for gap closers vs thief you got rush bulls charge whirling attack dagger #2 f1

You don't get to count skills/weapons that aren't really useful in a general wvw build. Daggers/swords/bulls rush are not things I would use

except

to specifically counter a thief, and I'm not changing my build for that. If the only argument you can make about "high mobility" is to build for that and not much else, then the argument holds.

I am playing gw2, and I have

never

tagged a thief with rush who stealthed after I started my rush. Never.

You do know that skills don’t show in combat log or floating numbers when you hit someone in stealth right? So you wouldn’t even know if it hits

If you have no way of knowing whether you hit and the next time you see the thief he's 5000 units away or backstabbing you out of stealth from somewhere else, then it makes zero difference. You're actually helping my argument.

No that’s not helping your argument, you can still hit them and it highlights the fact that you don’t know for a fact that you never hit them with those skills and if you had better in game knowledge you would know to follow up cc abilities like that with AAs since those will chain if you are hitting them or not, it’s pretty simple and if he is instantly attacking you or over 5000 units away(which no one Thief skill puts them that far away and requires large initiative investment and the use of multiple CDs to achieve, that means they wasted a stun break and/or tons of initiative and CDs...

Yes, I'm going to stand there flailing away at thin air while the thief laughs in stealth from over yonder. No, I'm not going to stand in the random spot where I last saw the thief attacking nothing because he's not there. GS5 is not a knockdown so even if I did actually hit him he's already gone off and resetting.

Lulz, I never said just stand in the random spot and it’s not random if it’s the last place the Thief was.... and it doesn’t take much to see if an AA hits anything before you move along, but hey I already know you don’t know how exactly how Stealth works based on your above comments, so it’s understandable that certain strategies on fighting stealth wouldn’t be used, or thought of.

[Kageseigi.2150]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:Yes, I'm going to stand there flailing away at thin air while the thief laughs in stealth from over yonder. No, I'm not going to stand in the random spot where I last saw the thief attacking nothing because he's not there.

That's what Thieves have to do to other Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers, and Engineers when they go into Stealth. But I'll tell you it's a lot easier to cleave with a Dagger than it is with a Rifle.

I can't tell you how many times the only reason I've been saved from blind cleave is because I got a Shadow Refuge off right as I go down... and I'm able to shadowstep just far enough away to revive myself before I become visible again. Without Shadow Refuge, I'd be toast.

[Taqe.1342]

If its ok to one shot ppl from stealth, from safe distance, then why other proffesions don't have one shot skills? If its fine and they got lots of time and opportuninty to counter play, then lets buff let say reaper shroud skill #5 to deal 24k crits? You have to be in shroud, in close range and cast time is long? plenty of time to counterplay?I don't even understand who in their right mind thinks 24k from stealth from distance is fine ... let alone one shotting ppl from full health :/

[Velran.1052]

oh boy cant wait for this thread to be ignored and for anet to still not do anything about perma stealth builds. At the very least make it so the DE elite doesn't remove revealed so we can maybe have a chance at fighting this.

[kmfart.7480]

He downs you at 00:25, then moves away & stealths, and u get fully stomped starting at 00:30. Shadow meld takes 0,5s to cast, stomp takes 3,5s to complete, plus some positioning required by the thief costing more time. Thats alot to do perfectly in such short time. Although it is barely possible, it's more likely there's actually 2 thiefs, or that one being a macro cheater.

[Kageseigi.2150]

@Taqe.1342 said:I don't even understand who in their right mind thinks 24k from stealth from distance is fine ... let alone one shotting ppl from full health :/

He didn't get one-shot. That's the big issue. He had been marked and hit several times before the video began. He had been hit enough that the Deadeye had built up full malice. That's why the Backstab hit so hard.

Before the video began, he got hit by:

1 x Deadeye's Mark (maybe more than once)1 x Spotter's Shot6 x Three Round Burst (3 per skill use)1 x Deadly Aim1 x Binding Shadow

That's 6 skills and 9 hits he took before the Backstab.

Not only that, he stood there while he was marked, took absolutely no defensive action, and had everything but the elite off cooldown.

[storm.3120]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:blabla

Only thing you can blame him is not using signet when he nearly died from backstab(and leaving OP veteran protection lol). What defensive actions he supposed to do before getting hit ? Random dodge against shadow arts thief to get killed when he waste both ?Fyi even with 0 malice thief hits for 15k , got hit by that after fighting 1x4 but people surprsied by 21k with malice ...

@kmfart.7480 said:He downs you at 00:25, then moves away & stealths, and u get fully stomped starting at 00:30. Shadow meld takes 0,5s to cast, stomp takes 3,5s to complete, plus some positioning required by the thief costing more time. Thats alot to do perfectly in such short time. Although it is barely possible, it's more likely there's actually 2 thiefs, or that one being a macro cheater.

He gets killed ,thief cast meld(you are sure its 0.5s because he seems to disappear close to instant after downing) ,start stomp ,use shadowstep away to finish stomp cast where noone can cleave/aoe body/interrupt and return when stomp 0.1s from being finished... you are incredibly new to the game and think this simple actions are...macro'd ?really ? Its like im getting whispers on engi that i macro two toolbelt skills in same time ...

[Kageseigi.2150]

@"Odik.4587" said:"blabla"

Alas, casting pearls before the swine.Doesn't matter. I don't blame him for anything. He did nothing, and he died. That's fine with me. I encourage more players to do nothing so I can kill them also. So please, everyone who's not on my team, just go afk or stand there when you're marked like you're watching Mickey Mouse on parade! :-D

Everything you do is absolutely futile! There is no escape! So don't you even dare try!

YOU WILL DIE TO MY DEADEYE!!!

[storm.3120]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:"blabla"

Alas, casting pearls before the swine.Doesn't matter. I don't blame him for anything. He did nothing, and he died. That's fine with me. I encourage more players to do nothing so I can kill them also. So please, everyone who's not on my team, just go afk or stand there when you're marked like you're watching Mickey Mouse on parade! :-D

Everything you do is absolutely futile! There is no escape! So don't you even dare try!

YOU WILL DIE TO MY DEADEYE!!!

Trying to dodge to anticipate permastealth burst and he can try again and again and nothing stop him from it (actually 1s cd if he miss xD) .On WvW ? pretty much they would die if they would stay and try to kill you ,they will :)Even as Mirage I cant catch thief because perma stealth... and 'desync' 1s no one gets revealed after losing stealth. So after 1s of opptunity to fight back,they DODGE ROLL and get it again... Its cost too much time and efforts to kill even bad DE so its never worth trying to fight :)

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:I'm an apologist of just deleting stealth, already said on these forums why.But if you insist on having this kitten mechanic, just remove the capability to stack it and make it reveal you whether you attack or not. Also redesign Shadow Meld, counters to counters are just dumb to begin with.

Then they would have to Rework a lot of things and remove a lot of the counterplay to counterplay in game, like Resistance would have to not be Corruptible, Unblockables would have to be removed(since Blocks are there to counterplay Attacks), Revealed would have to be removed since Stealth is Counterplay to being targeted/seen..the list goes on

They wouldn't have to rework a lot of things.I understand the idea behind those and how it's supposed to add an addional tactical layer, but it's still dumb because the "mid" counterplay becomes useless.But hey I guess we can add more and more counterplay to counterplay!Let's add "Kormir's sight", while under this boon you can see stealthed players. How cool is that to counter shadowmeld? Then we can give thieves some boon corruption tools to corrupt "Kormir's sight" into "You can't see kitten" in which your monitor turns all black"!Let's add "Kormir's fleshshield" which turns unblockables into blockables! And then "Abaddon's power" which penetrates "Kormir fleshshield".Sounds like a cool game, right?! No, it sounds like crap, because that's what counterplay to counterplay is - crap.

[Velran.1052]

@kmfart.7480 said:He downs you at 00:25, then moves away & stealths, and u get fully stomped starting at 00:30. Shadow meld takes 0,5s to cast, stomp takes 3,5s to complete, plus some positioning required by the thief costing more time. Thats alot to do perfectly in such short time. Although it is barely possible, it's more likely there's actually 2 thiefs, or that one being a macro cheater.

What? Its literally 4 buttons. elite -> interact -> shadowstep x2

How is that difficult? Its the most standard basic combo that every thief does.

[Iozeph.5617]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I'm an apologist of just deleting stealth, already said on these forums why.But if you insist on having this kitten mechanic, just remove the capability to stack it and make it reveal you whether you attack or not. Also redesign Shadow Meld, counters to counters are just dumb to begin with.

Then they would have to Rework a lot of things and remove a lot of the counterplay to counterplay in game, like Resistance would have to not be Corruptible, Unblockables would have to be removed(since Blocks are there to counterplay Attacks), Revealed would have to be removed since Stealth is Counterplay to being targeted/seen..the list goes on

They wouldn't have to rework a lot of things.I understand the idea behind those and how it's supposed to add an addional tactical layer, but it's still dumb because the "mid" counterplay becomes useless.But hey I guess we can add more and more counterplay to counterplay!Let's add "Kormir's sight", while under this boon you can see stealthed players. How cool is that to counter shadowmeld? Then we can give thieves some boon corruption tools to corrupt "Kormir's sight" into "You can't see kitten" in which your monitor turns all black"!Let's add "Kormir's fleshshield" which turns unblockables into blockables! And then "Abaddon's power" which penetrates "Kormir fleshshield".Sounds like a cool game, right?! No, it sounds like crap, because that's what counterplay to counterplay is - crap.

I want stealth gone but I wouldn't dare ask for it, not even on the worst of my days.

Yes, they would have to rework some things and even those few would break the game for everyone else. Some examples.

Remove stealth from thieves and what do you give them in return? For a start you change many of their weapon skills to include more evade frames. They'll be given access to long duration weakness and blinds. Then, as they no longer have stealth, in compensation they'll get an additional bar of endurance baseline with an additional one to be traited for in acrobatics. Add on the additional one they'll get from traiting Daredevil, the on-dodge abilities they have within that spec line, and suddenly you're looking at five dodges -something far worse than it ever was when they had stealth. Imagine that one v one. Imagine that two or even five v one.

It would be a new meta in no time, annoying as hell - The Daredevil Dodge Blob. What fun.

[bq pd.2148]

@kmfart.7480 said:He downs you at 00:25, then moves away & stealths, and u get fully stomped starting at 00:30. Shadow meld takes 0,5s to cast, stomp takes 3,5s to complete, plus some positioning required by the thief costing more time. Thats alot to do perfectly in such short time. Although it is barely possible, it's more likely there's actually 2 thiefs, or that one being a macro cheater.

using macros is stupid for allmost anything in this game as there are not many builds that can do really fast actions. as long as you are able to do it yourself it is allways going to be better to do it yourself as that will execute it with less issues. trying to make a macro with a port stomp is pretty difficult as you would need the macro to make a decision for the ground target based on the camera ankle/visuals and it would never do such cool things as port stomping through the upper floor in SM. learning to press 4 buttons within 4 seconds is alot easier than making a macro that can do what i did in those 4 seconds.but your correct that positioning takes more then 5seconds, positioning is the reason the ranger died at 25s into the clip altho i had full malice before it started. because i had to wait for the ranger to be in a position were my shadowmeld will not be interrupted by the guards or his ally. on open field he would be long dead before the clip started.

[Vornollo.5182]

Classic non Thieves ranting about Thieves, refusing to actually play and try it for themselves. 1970 range Longbow ranting about 1500 range rifle who clearly had have to be visible over the course of 6 separate skill uses... Mirages ranting about dodges being too efficient...This thread is just too good, lol.

---

Everyone pointing fingers at whatever isn't their own Main profession without actually having a proper grasp of basic game mechanics...Dislike ANet all you want, but damn I'm glad to see this community has no actual say in it.

EDIT:Oh while we're at it...

@Velran.1052 said:

@kmfart.7480 said:He downs you at 00:25, then moves away & stealths, and u get fully stomped starting at 00:30. Shadow meld takes 0,5s to cast, stomp takes 3,5s to complete, plus some positioning required by the thief costing more time. Thats alot to do perfectly in such short time. Although it is barely possible, it's more likely there's actually 2 thiefs, or that one being a macro cheater.

What? Its literally 4 buttons. elite -> interact -> shadowstep x2

How is that difficult? Its the most standard basic combo that every thief does.

That's difficult because there's also a Holosmith there who, judging by his Merciless Legend title, has a pretty decent grasp of the mechanics in this game. There's a variety of ways that he could have counter-pressured and potentially kill this Thief before the Stomp could complete, that's even with the use of Shadowstep...Most Engi's are running Lock On at the moment. So that's an easy reveal, using Holographic Shockwave with a little bit of timing would've easily interrupted the stomp while cc'ing the Thief, that's just for starters.Considering that the Thief used his Shadowstep already, he'd have blown his biggest stunbreak on the stomp, making him essentially a sitting duck while also being in the revealed state. Chain CC is a major issue for all Thieves...So just for this little snippet of video, clearly much has been left out of this video in terms of set-up, the Thief has blown several rather critical CD's, most of his decisions would've gotten him killed against players who are able to react just as fast as people can react against any other Class that uses something like a CC into a Burst of any shape or form (Ranger themselves having a rather famous chain like that, with actual proven higher range...).Heck, even the Rangers' pets can quite comfortably be used to interrupt stomps and deal counterpressure....

And no, this was definitely one Thief and I highly doubt he used macro's... This is truly not too difficult to pull off at all. Easy trick with easy counters.

---

I agree that ranged abilities shouldn't be hitting like this, but to just point fingers at a gimmicky build that has no use anywhere outside of some small-scale roaming... Are people actually for real? Lol.

Also, let's not forget that what killed this guy, was a Malicious Backstab...Malicious, kitten, Backstab.Like... Go out there and try to land that against a player who's not AFK or scared like some Deer caught in a pair of headlights.

[Turk.5460]

@Taqe.1342 said:If its ok to one shot ppl from stealth, from safe distance, then why other proffesions don't have one shot skills? If its fine and they got lots of time and opportuninty to counter play, then lets buff let say reaper shroud skill #5 to deal 24k crits? You have to be in shroud, in close range and cast time is long? plenty of time to counterplay?I don't even understand who in their right mind thinks 24k from stealth from distance is fine ... let alone one shotting ppl from full health :/

This thread isn't about from a distance. At all.

[Iozeph.5617]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Taqe.1342 said:If its ok to one shot ppl from stealth, from safe distance, then why other proffesions don't have one shot skills? If its fine and they got lots of time and opportuninty to counter play, then lets buff let say reaper shroud skill #5 to deal 24k crits? You have to be in shroud, in close range and cast time is long? plenty of time to counterplay?I don't even understand who in their right mind thinks 24k from stealth from distance is fine ... let alone one shotting ppl from full health :/

This thread isn't about from a distance. At all.

To be fair, shadow-stepping in from twelve hundred range and unleashing a rotation, then running when it gets too hot only to reset again is a thing as well. Deadeye might change the avenue of attack slightly but the core still holds. Engage, dump damage, disengage, reset, dump more -rinse, repeat- until they collapse or break off pursuit.

Getting what feels to be insta-downed isn't fun. It sucks, but we've all had it coming and are all partially to blame here.

The thief community whinged endlessly when they were told they were getting Deadeye. 'It's too different!' Some of us told them it was actually a good thing. A ranged option for blob on blob when in WvW, a slot for ranged DPS in raids so that a profession that has been historically group-unfriendly across several games now has a place in most game modes for being included in group play. That's awesome. We should all be happy for them.

But on top of all that was an unspoken -save by a few- potential for ranged ganking and ranged gank groups. Something having a shield on one's bar or having the ability to dodge wasn't going to help if one couldn't anticipate that particular hammer coming down.

The community was warned about this. Even so, the thieves cried harder and louder, the rest of the player community believed it, and so dismissed them as a viable threat.

Suckers.

But now, now that many of those crybaby thieves have cooled off, dried their tears, have actually learned the ins and outs of their new spec line - and are mopping the floor with the rest of us besides- now stealth has to go? Now the mechanics have to change? As if some of the other cheese encountered in fully visible open field fights hasn't and doesn't in any way balance things out? No?

Well, this is what we get when everyone demands new and creative implementations of elite spec lines for their chosen professions with every expansion instead of just a single, separate, new profession(As with Revenant). Any semblance of balance has since farted, zipped around the room, and sailed out the window -never to be seen again. Regaining it isn't going to get any easier for Anet and it probably won't feel any better from our end of things from this point forward -not with a total of twenty seven current professions and a possibility of thirty six around the corner.

We asked for this. Enjoy.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Iozeph.5617 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Taqe.1342 said:If its ok to one shot ppl from stealth, from safe distance, then why other proffesions don't have one shot skills? If its fine and they got lots of time and opportuninty to counter play, then lets buff let say reaper shroud skill #5 to deal 24k crits? You have to be in shroud, in close range and cast time is long? plenty of time to counterplay?I don't even understand who in their right mind thinks 24k from stealth from distance is fine ... let alone one shotting ppl from full health :/

This thread isn't about from a distance. At all.

To be fair, shadow-stepping in from twelve hundred range and unleashing a rotation, then running when it gets too hot only to reset again is a thing as well. Deadeye might change the avenue of attack slightly but the core still holds. Engage, dump damage, disengage, reset, dump more -rinse, repeat- until they collapse or break off pursuit.

I don't understand this bit. They have already ported you you from 1200 range and back again and somehow it's worked in there favour? Yo do realize you can actually kite the other direction and pretty much stalled the thief from then on as he just wasted pretty much all I initiative and the main stun breaker - I doubt he will have any thing left to chase you now.

[Iozeph.5617]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Iozeph.5617 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Taqe.1342 said:If its ok to one shot ppl from stealth, from safe distance, then why other proffesions don't have one shot skills? If its fine and they got lots of time and opportuninty to counter play, then lets buff let say reaper shroud skill #5 to deal 24k crits? You have to be in shroud, in close range and cast time is long? plenty of time to counterplay?I don't even understand who in their right mind thinks 24k from stealth from distance is fine ... let alone one shotting ppl from full health :/

This thread isn't about from a distance. At all.

To be fair, shadow-stepping in from twelve hundred range and unleashing a rotation, then running when it gets too hot only to reset again is a thing as well. Deadeye might change the avenue of attack slightly but the core still holds. Engage, dump damage, disengage, reset, dump more -rinse, repeat- until they collapse or break off pursuit.

I don't understand this bit. They have already ported you you from 1200 range and back again and somehow it's worked in there favour? Yo do realize you can actually kite the other direction and pretty much stalled the thief from then on as he just wasted pretty much all I initiative and the main stun breaker - I doubt he will have any thing left to chase you now.

It's the shark rule. They're going to bite first for a taste before deciding to go all in or cut and run.

Should probably go without saying but generally, in any given situation, it's the thief stalling you. They don't have to do anything but annoy you and tie you up forever, engaging and breaking off and re-engaging until you're so fed up with it you either run and fail to get to whatever objective you were going for, you blink and hit the wrong button and make the first mistake which gives them an opening to finish you off(this often includes pursuing them when you shouldn't), or they keep you there long enough for players from their side to come along and assist in rolling you. If they've made you do anything you weren't intending or wanting to do from point A to point B then yes it's working in their favour. At least in wvw, which is mostly what I play when I have the time, that's what the good ones do. I hate it. Mostly means whenever I encounter one that I'm not going to get to where I wanted unless the blob comes from over the hill behind me to scare them off. But I don't begrudge it of them. Everyone has to have some sort of role to play, even if all it is is spoiler.

If a thief is actually pursuing, as in trying to get you downed regardless of the risk to the point that they've stuck their neck out with no escape then A.) they probably aren't that good a thief player or B.) they've watched you some -perhaps as you've roamed -trying to take objectives etc., have a rough estimate of your build after engaging previously, and and have reasoned you're probably a bad/slow enough player that they'll win against you regardless. (see shark rule above)

For my own sake, though I have one I don't bother going out on it. Unless it's something a player is willing to spend the time to get good at it's just too easy to be embarrassed playing a thief. But why punish the good ones? Why screw the mediocre ones over based on the performance of those elite few? When has that ever made anybody happy when it's done to their chosen profession?

Back to the point of this thread- I hate stealth but it doesn't mean I agree with it being removed for this reason. In the current state of wvw, which is still blob heavy, thieves are still essentially bottom feeders. That hasn't changed from the start. And even against blobs they're mostly sniping fat kids, over extenders, singles or small groups. The sort of numbers being quoted here require a sufficient setup for the Deadeye. Which is as people have said, a roamer, small group, or blob -for whatever reason- standing still long enough to provide an easy target.

What's to say other than the game has snipers now? We've known about it for months and so if we leave an entrance area/keep and travel out in the open not expecting to be shot at from an oblique angle then half of the trip back to the anvil is on us(same as when it was base thieves doing it). I still roam with a small group when time affords, I still get downed a lot while I'm at it but that's just part of the game and the risk of trying to get away with murder in enemy territory in such small numbers. Is it stupid? Yes, probably, but some times I just don't want to follow a blob around for hours waiting for my brain to leak out of my ear. In many ways griing about it's no better or worse than getting bent out of shape over being nearly insta-downed by insane amounts of overlapping gtaoe when fighting blob on blob.

If it isn't one thing it's another.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Iozeph.5617 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Iozeph.5617 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Taqe.1342 said:If its ok to one shot ppl from stealth, from safe distance, then why other proffesions don't have one shot skills? If its fine and they got lots of time and opportuninty to counter play, then lets buff let say reaper shroud skill #5 to deal 24k crits? You have to be in shroud, in close range and cast time is long? plenty of time to counterplay?I don't even understand who in their right mind thinks 24k from stealth from distance is fine ... let alone one shotting ppl from full health :/

This thread isn't about from a distance. At all.

To be fair, shadow-stepping in from twelve hundred range and unleashing a rotation, then running when it gets too hot only to reset again is a thing as well. Deadeye might change the avenue of attack slightly but the core still holds. Engage, dump damage, disengage, reset, dump more -rinse, repeat- until they collapse or break off pursuit.

I don't understand this bit. They have already ported you you from 1200 range and back again and somehow it's worked in there favour? Yo do realize you can actually kite the other direction and pretty much stalled the thief from then on as he just wasted pretty much all I initiative and the main stun breaker - I doubt he will have any thing left to chase you now.

It's the shark rule. They're going to bite first for a taste before deciding to go all in or cut and run.

Should probably go without saying but generally, in any given situation, it's the thief stalling you. They don't have to do anything but annoy you and tie you up forever, engaging and breaking off and re-engaging until you're so fed up with it you either run and fail to get to whatever objective you were going for, you blink and hit the wrong button and make the first mistake which gives them an opening to finish you off(this often includes pursuing them when you shouldn't), or they keep you there long enough for players from their side to come along and assist in rolling you.

If they've made you do anything you weren't intending or wanting to do from point A to point B then yes it's working in their favour.

At least in wvw, which is mostly what I play when I have the time, that's what the good ones do. I hate it. Mostly means whenever I encounter one that I'm not going to get to where I wanted unless the blob comes from over the hill behind me to scare them off. But I don't begrudge it of them. Everyone has to have some sort of role to play, even if all it is is spoiler.

If a thief is actually pursuing, as in trying to get you downed regardless of the risk to the point that they've stuck their neck out with no escape then A.) they probably aren't that good a thief player or B.) they've watched you some -perhaps as you've roamed -trying to take objectives etc., have a rough estimate of your build after engaging previously, and and have reasoned you're probably a bad/slow enough player that they'll win against you regardless. (see shark rule above)

For my own sake, though I have one I don't bother going out on it. Unless it's something a player is willing to spend the time to get good at it's just too easy to be embarrassed playing a thief. But why punish the good ones? Why screw the mediocre ones over based on the performance of those elite few? When has that ever made anybody happy when it's done to their chosen profession?

Back to the point of this thread- I hate stealth but it doesn't mean I agree with it being removed for this reason. In the current state of wvw, which is still blob heavy, thieves are still essentially bottom feeders. That hasn't changed from the start. And even against blobs they're mostly sniping fat kids, over extenders, singles or small groups. The sort of numbers being quoted here require a sufficient setup for the Deadeye. Which is as people have said, a roamer, small group, or blob -for whatever reason- standing still long enough to provide an easy target.

What's to say other than the game has snipers now? We've known about it for months and so if we leave an entrance area/keep and travel out in the open not expecting to be shot at from an oblique angle then half of the trip back to the anvil is on us(same as when it was base thieves doing it). I still roam with a small group when time affords, I still get downed a lot while I'm at it but that's just part of the game and the risk of trying to get away with murder in enemy territory in such small numbers. Is it stupid? Yes, probably, but some times I just don't want to follow a blob around for hours waiting for my brain to leak out of my ear. In many ways griing about it's no better or worse than getting bent out of shape over being nearly insta-downed by insane amounts of overlapping gtaoe when fighting blob on blob.

If it isn't one thing it's another.

You are talking complete nonsense and it clearly shows how little understanding of how thief works and how much of a burden iniaitve is in the longer run in fights. No thief is in any position to fight when they have just been forced to port away and burn their main stun breaker and what are they going to chase you with if they used most of iniaitve up? Shortbow #5 cost 6.

You say things like the thief is the 1 stalling you because h/she forced you to go else where - when its the thief thats the 1 who wants to kill you and all of the time you are kiting he has to use iniaitve to close the gap, most are telegrpahic too so they can be either dodged or counter bursted back.

[ninao.1208]

I also got hit with 20k+ crits some times, while using pwr/tgh/vit armor, that's just ridiculous, a single successful crit hit can headshot a lot of builds, I'm not crying about players taking advantage of it, the game allows to do it, so ppl will do it. This is just terrible balance. Stuff like this is the reason I don't spend money in the gem store, heck, I'm already regretting the money I spent in the HoT/PoF expansions.Max crit dmg from a single skill should be caped. I don't give a dam if ppl can heashot mobs in pve, but in a game mode where ppl fight other players it is ridiculous.

[Iozeph.5617]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:You are talking complete nonsense and it clearly shows how little understanding of how thief works and how much of a burden iniaitve is in the longer run in fights. No thief is in any position to fight when they have just been forced to port away and burn their main stun breaker and what are they going to chase you with if they used most of iniaitve up? Shortbow #5 cost 6.

You say things like the thief is the 1 stalling you because h/she forced you to go else where - when its the thief thats the 1 who wants to kill you and all of the time you are kiting he has to use iniaitve to close the gap, most are telegrpahic too so they can be either dodged or counter bursted back.

And you're getting your pants in a bunch for no good reason here. You're arguing that a thief is in no position to fight after having done x, y, and z. That initiative is a burden in long fights. I know how initiative works, know how front-loading works, and I'm not even contesting that. I'm saying the thief doesn't need to kill you or engage in a drawn out toe to toe fight to ruin your day. That's all. Does he want to take you out? Probably, but he doesn't need to if the aim is to tie you up and harass you to keep you from an objective or linking back up with your group/squad. Getting the bag is a bonus. If he absolutely must have that bag, and with less risk besides, that's what Deadeye is for now.

But even if he isn't running Deadeye if he pounces on you unaware from distance and you're running glass you're probably done. If you're not glass then he disengages. If he's good he's going to test you once to see which one you are first before fully committing and that will determine how he engages from there on.

If you're running away from him or dodging all over the place -doing your best imitation of a chicken with its head cut off- to avoid a hit or a shot you fear is coming up next he doesn't need to chase you because you're the one reacting. That's control. If he does give chase he's either stupid or you're just that bad or slow enough -even running away- that he doesn't have to burn everything to catch you. Either way you're not getting where you want to go in any reasonable amount of time and are marching to his tune. So we're clear this is just one thief. We're not even getting into whether he's paired up with another or several others.

Now, if you want to keep sounding off all day about how awesome you are at one v one, or kiting, or how you never get distracted by or lose to a well-played thief then go ahead. It's a free forum and there's bound to be at least one exception to every rule out there. Knock yourself out.

[SweetPotato.7456]

@MUDse.7623 said:that was WvW not spvp. the build used there you wont see in spvp because it is way to reliant on stealth wich is pretty stupid in spvp. different modes, different playstyles. you have way more time and way more space to fight in WvW. soo wrong forum.

you and your holo (with Merciless Legend title so prolly not full noob) of whom i wasnt sure if he had lock on were in your buffed camp so ofc i fought cautiously. you didnt show the malice buildup in the video that was before.

Yes there are thief like this in spvp