New boss release rate

[zealex.9410]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Like in fractals. Dugeons pre hot and i suppose still have a better system. Ppl can play for as long as they want and not feel like they hit a wall or that they're rewarded very poorly because they want to play more of the content the game offers

Swamps of the Mists was a thing pre hot. Fortunately they fixed that by adding the daily system, without it the fractal system was horrible and gave incentive to run only the same fractal (the fastest one). With a daily system there is incentive to run a different set of fractals every day, so variety wins.

As for Dungeons, they now give you a reward for running 8 different individual paths. In the beginning it was all about running CoF P1 with as many characters as possible. Then more "easy" paths were added but we never had incentive to run

8

of those. The system was similar to the fractal one, run the fastest/easiest path. Now at least you can be rewarded for running 8 different paths. They could expand this and make Dungeon Master repeatable (finish every dungeon path for an extra reward) but the reward would need to be amazing to give incentive to do so.

And they killed any reason to do fractals after the 3 daily ones. This is not a trade we should have to make other games have moved past this and allowed for ppl to have more to do with their game and time.

The way dungeons worked allowed you put alot more effort into each path learn it and optimise it because u werent limite to once or twice a week for said path. Even today's dungeon system with the refreshable 8 paths allows for this to some extent to happen.

The only thing that remotely resembles that in fotm are cms.

Honestly the daily t1-4 feel more like a job than playing the game.

And doing fractal 40 over and over and over for hours feels like a game? Yeah, no. I'd much rather have the current system, thank you very much.

Lol who said repeating the same fractal over and over and over. This is poor balancing in terms of rewards or the fractal it self being outlier. Something which they adress with updates.

Im saying that i dont want raids to become something that i do 5 or 6 encounters of per week and dont touch again while theres so much more of them to play. Which is exactly what fractals are atm.

You'll always have a single fastest fractal. They killed fractal 40 farm, people started to do the same on 42. If it wasn't for the dailies, you can bet these would be the only decent groups you'd find.

And I'm not saying raids should be 5-6 encounters per week. But they shouldn't expand indefinitely either. But 5 wings per week is actually nice. 6 may be fine too. 10? Way too much.

I get yoyr point but theres ppl who cant clear 5 or 6 wings and ppl who clear multiple times (even on alts). I dont think the game should hard limit ppl from playing more of their game's content (which is what imo fractals suffer from atm). It all really depends on ppl's time.

Have some weeklies dailies with more loot and then have enticing rewards for the other fractals/raid wings so if someone (god forbid) has more than 2 hours a week can play the content they enjoy.

As for always having a single faster fractal, idd but much like swampland and molten duo they try to adress that.

[Cyninja.2954]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Like in fractals. Dugeons pre hot and i suppose still have a better system. Ppl can play for as long as they want and not feel like they hit a wall or that they're rewarded very poorly because they want to play more of the content the game offers

Swamps of the Mists was a thing pre hot. Fortunately they fixed that by adding the daily system, without it the fractal system was horrible and gave incentive to run only the same fractal (the fastest one). With a daily system there is incentive to run a different set of fractals every day, so variety wins.

As for Dungeons, they now give you a reward for running 8 different individual paths. In the beginning it was all about running CoF P1 with as many characters as possible. Then more "easy" paths were added but we never had incentive to run

8

of those. The system was similar to the fractal one, run the fastest/easiest path. Now at least you can be rewarded for running 8 different paths. They could expand this and make Dungeon Master repeatable (finish every dungeon path for an extra reward) but the reward would need to be amazing to give incentive to do so.

And they killed any reason to do fractals after the 3 daily ones. This is not a trade we should have to make other games have moved past this and allowed for ppl to have more to do with their game and time.

The way dungeons worked allowed you put alot more effort into each path learn it and optimise it because u werent limite to once or twice a week for said path. Even today's dungeon system with the refreshable 8 paths allows for this to some extent to happen.

The only thing that remotely resembles that in fotm are cms.

Honestly the daily t1-4 feel more like a job than playing the game.

And doing fractal 40 over and over and over for hours feels like a game? Yeah, no. I'd much rather have the current system, thank you very much.

Lol who said repeating the same fractal over and over and over. This is poor balancing in terms of rewards or the fractal it self being outlier. Something which they adress with updates.

Im saying that i dont want raids to become something that i do 5 or 6 encounters of per week and dont touch again while theres so much more of them to play. Which is exactly what fractals are atm.

You'll always have a single fastest fractal. They killed fractal 40 farm, people started to do the same on 42. If it wasn't for the dailies, you can bet these would be the only decent groups you'd find.

And I'm not saying raids should be 5-6 encounters per week. But they shouldn't expand indefinitely either. But 5 wings per week is actually nice. 6 may be fine too. 10? Way too much.

I get yoyr point but theres ppl who cant clear 5 or 6 wings and ppl who clear multiple times (even on alts). I dont think the game should hard limit ppl from playing more of their game's content (which is what imo fractals suffer from atm). It all really depends on ppl's time.

Have some weeklies dailies with more loot and then have enticing rewards for the other fractals/raid wings so if someone (god forbid) has more than 2 hours a week can play the content they enjoy.

I don't think more loot or reward is what this game needs. If you are part of the 5-10% clearing all raid wing and doing CM fractals daily, you have outpaced the majority of the games Population.

Arenanet has Designed them selves it to a corner raid reward wise. 17 LI per week is already borderline to much for the legendary armor carrot. What the game needs is longterm goals for raids, not more grind. Similar to fractals upgrades just not limited since people have already reached fractal god.

This will just get worse as more wing get introduced. The players only interested in their 1 legendary armor will speed through the content, the longterm raiders will get board.

More rewards are merely a bandaid on a deeper issue. What more rewards? I'm swimming in LI, ascended, magnetite shards and Gold. I don't even grind or farm any more at all. Raids and daily fractals make me more gold than I can spend on stuff I don't need except more legendary weapons(which are inferior to the 3 bank tabs full of ascended weapons I have).

[maddoctor.2738]

@"zealex.9410" said:As ppl already dont run w2 and 5 because the rewards they give are not balanced with the effort they take so ppl will skip them (like they've been doing with spirit woods or any other event that doesnt give li for a long time)

If they added a weekly achievement then you'd run all the Wings equally. Without a weekly system then w2 and w5 will remain the least run wings. I get what you are saying about balancing their rewards, but that's an absolute impossibility. They CANNOT balance the rewards with the effort. Otherwise they'd either have to make all wings similar or take this into consideration when creating them, severely limiting the originality and even the pace of release, which is already slow. Let's not add another modifier (balanced reward/effort of wings) into the mix and push for 1 raid wing every 2 years.

"Maaan i love dhuum,i wish i had a reason to do that encounter more than once every month"You can run Dhuum as much as you want if you like that boss, just like how you can run Dhuum now. If they add an extra incentive for running other bosses on a particular week, that won't remove your ability to continue running Dhuum as you like.

With the current system instead (or a "dungeon-like" system) you'd say "Man I love Dhuum, I wish I had a reason to do that encounter... ever" Like how many are running Arah P4 nowadays? Yes such a nice system the dungeon system. If there wasn't a daily system in Fractals then fractals like Nightmare or Shattered Observatory wouldn't be run at all. Evidence? During the Swamp of the Mists era, everyone was running Swamp. Previous to that, when the Fractals were random, players would simply re-roll their fractal if it wasn't to their liking. Now, with a daily incentive, you no longer re-roll AND you play all fractals equally. I'd rather have a system like that which gives incentive to run every Raid Wing, rather than a system where everyone runs the fastest/easier Wings instead. And to say it again, balancing reward/effort between the raid wings is an impossibility.

[zealex.9410]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Like in fractals. Dugeons pre hot and i suppose still have a better system. Ppl can play for as long as they want and not feel like they hit a wall or that they're rewarded very poorly because they want to play more of the content the game offers

Swamps of the Mists was a thing pre hot. Fortunately they fixed that by adding the daily system, without it the fractal system was horrible and gave incentive to run only the same fractal (the fastest one). With a daily system there is incentive to run a different set of fractals every day, so variety wins.

As for Dungeons, they now give you a reward for running 8 different individual paths. In the beginning it was all about running CoF P1 with as many characters as possible. Then more "easy" paths were added but we never had incentive to run

8

of those. The system was similar to the fractal one, run the fastest/easiest path. Now at least you can be rewarded for running 8 different paths. They could expand this and make Dungeon Master repeatable (finish every dungeon path for an extra reward) but the reward would need to be amazing to give incentive to do so.

And they killed any reason to do fractals after the 3 daily ones. This is not a trade we should have to make other games have moved past this and allowed for ppl to have more to do with their game and time.

The way dungeons worked allowed you put alot more effort into each path learn it and optimise it because u werent limite to once or twice a week for said path. Even today's dungeon system with the refreshable 8 paths allows for this to some extent to happen.

The only thing that remotely resembles that in fotm are cms.

Honestly the daily t1-4 feel more like a job than playing the game.

And doing fractal 40 over and over and over for hours feels like a game? Yeah, no. I'd much rather have the current system, thank you very much.

Lol who said repeating the same fractal over and over and over. This is poor balancing in terms of rewards or the fractal it self being outlier. Something which they adress with updates.

Im saying that i dont want raids to become something that i do 5 or 6 encounters of per week and dont touch again while theres so much more of them to play. Which is exactly what fractals are atm.

You'll always have a single fastest fractal. They killed fractal 40 farm, people started to do the same on 42. If it wasn't for the dailies, you can bet these would be the only decent groups you'd find.

And I'm not saying raids should be 5-6 encounters per week. But they shouldn't expand indefinitely either. But 5 wings per week is actually nice. 6 may be fine too. 10? Way too much.

I get yoyr point but theres ppl who cant clear 5 or 6 wings and ppl who clear multiple times (even on alts). I dont think the game should hard limit ppl from playing more of their game's content (which is what imo fractals suffer from atm). It all really depends on ppl's time.

Have some weeklies dailies with more loot and then have enticing rewards for the other fractals/raid wings so if someone (god forbid) has more than 2 hours a week can play the content they enjoy.

I don't think more loot or reward is what this game needs. If you are part of the 5-10% clearing all raid wing and doing CM fractals daily, you have outpaced the majority of the games Population.

Arenanet has Designed them selves it to a corner raid reward wise. 17 LI per week is already borderline to much for the legendary armor carrot. What the game needs is longterm goals for raids, not more grind. Similar to fractals upgrades just not limited since people have already reached fractal god.

This will just get worse as more wing get introduced. The players only interested in their 1 legendary armor will speed through the content, the longterm raiders will get board.

More rewards are merely a bandaid on a deeper issue. What more rewards? I'm swimming in LI, ascended, magnetite shards and Gold. I don't even grind or farm any more at all. Raids and daily fractals make me more gold than I can spend on stuff I don't need except more legendary weapons(which are inferior to the 3 bank tabs full of ascended weapons I have).

Long term rewards are fine imo. Every mode has them and they are quite long long term (esp if you looks at stuff like wvw legendary armor or the fractal titles.

Furthermore these rewards are for an even smaller % than the ppl who can clear t4 and cms. U can start the game lvl up and in 2 months or less be in a position where u clear daily t4s and cms.

It will take you a year plus from scratch prob to reach fractal god. Longterm acount upgrades dont need to be prioritised over mid to short term rewards.

Although id take a fractal armor in any form honestly. The game just need more sinks to throw money and currencies at so they dont have to deal with the same issue every time new exoansions, legendaries etc come out.

[zealex.9410]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:As ppl already dont run w2 and 5 because the rewards they give are not balanced with the effort they take so ppl will skip them (like they've been doing with spirit woods or any other event that doesnt give li for a long time)

If they added a weekly achievement then you'd run all the Wings equally. Without a weekly system then w2 and w5 will remain the least run wings. I get what you are saying about balancing their rewards, but that's an absolute impossibility. They CANNOT balance the rewards with the effort. Otherwise they'd either have to make all wings similar or take this into consideration when creating them, severely limiting the originality and even the pace of release, which is already slow. Let's not add another modifier (balanced reward/effort of wings) into the mix and push for 1 raid wing every 2 years.

"Maaan i love dhuum,i wish i had a reason to do that encounter more than once every month"You can run Dhuum as much as you want if you like that boss, just like how you can run Dhuum

now

. If they add an extra incentive for running

other

bosses on a particular week, that won't remove your ability to continue running Dhuum as you like.

With the current system instead (or a "dungeon-like" system) you'd say "Man I love Dhuum, I wish I had a reason to do that encounter... ever" Like how many are running Arah P4 nowadays? Yes such a nice system the dungeon system. If there wasn't a daily system in Fractals then fractals like Nightmare or Shattered Observatory wouldn't be run at all. Evidence? During the Swamp of the Mists era, everyone was running Swamp. Previous to that, when the Fractals were random, players would simply re-roll their fractal if it wasn't to their liking. Now, with a daily incentive, you no longer re-roll AND you play all fractals equally. I'd rather have a system like that which gives incentive to run every Raid Wing, rather than a system where everyone runs the fastest/easier Wings instead. And to say it again, balancing reward/effort between the raid wings is an impossibility.

It will lower my incentive to run that boss in case other bosses are just alot more rewarding. Case in point any other fractal tham the non dailies and dungeons compaired to other instanced content.

[zealex.9410]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:As ppl already dont run w2 and 5 because the rewards they give are not balanced with the effort they take so ppl will skip them (like they've been doing with spirit woods or any other event that doesnt give li for a long time)

If they added a weekly achievement then you'd run all the Wings equally. Without a weekly system then w2 and w5 will remain the least run wings. I get what you are saying about balancing their rewards, but that's an absolute impossibility. They CANNOT balance the rewards with the effort. Otherwise they'd either have to make all wings similar or take this into consideration when creating them, severely limiting the originality and even the pace of release, which is already slow. Let's not add another modifier (balanced reward/effort of wings) into the mix and push for 1 raid wing every 2 years.

"Maaan i love dhuum,i wish i had a reason to do that encounter more than once every month"You can run Dhuum as much as you want if you like that boss, just like how you can run Dhuum

now

. If they add an extra incentive for running

other

bosses on a particular week, that won't remove your ability to continue running Dhuum as you like.

With the current system instead (or a "dungeon-like" system) you'd say "Man I love Dhuum, I wish I had a reason to do that encounter... ever" Like how many are running Arah P4 nowadays? Yes such a nice system the dungeon system. If there wasn't a daily system in Fractals then fractals like Nightmare or Shattered Observatory wouldn't be run at all. Evidence? During the Swamp of the Mists era, everyone was running Swamp. Previous to that, when the Fractals were random, players would simply re-roll their fractal if it wasn't to their liking. Now, with a daily incentive, you no longer re-roll AND you play all fractals equally. I'd rather have a system like that which gives incentive to run every Raid Wing, rather than a system where everyone runs the fastest/easier Wings instead. And to say it again, balancing reward/effort between the raid wings is an impossibility.

Shattered and nightmare would be run regardless of the t4 dailies. Cms put plenty of reason to run them.

The dungeon system works in dungeons because u need a sizeable amount of paths to do and the pool doesnt increase. Meanwhile we are still at 3 fractals per day and we have 19 fractals available.

Fractals and raids could work with both systems, have the 3 or w/e fractals with enhanced rewards so ppl can do those and get the bulk of rewards and have a repeatable "do x diff fractals" "do x raid encounters". U got the best of both worlds.

As for it being impossible, blizzard was balancing rewards for longer and shorter fractals and the instanced content team at anet is reworking/tuning fractals to be more in line with current ones while also making sure theres not any crazy outlier and all new fractals remain in line.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"zealex.9410" said:Shattered and nightmare would be run regardless of the t4 dailies. Cms put plenty of reason to run them.

Talking about their normal versions not the CM version. What about Twilight Oasis then that doesn't have a CM? CMs are irrelevant, the harder or more challenging fractals will stop being run the moment they remove the daily system and the only reason all fractals are still being run is because we have that system.

Fractals and raids could work with both systems, have the 3 or w/e fractals with enhanced rewards so ppl can do those and get the bulk of rewards and have a repeatable "do x diff fractals" "do x raid encounters". U got the best of both worlds.

Even if you add a "do x raid encounters" "incentive" that won't help the less run paths. Just see how many are running Arah P4 for example.Plus by adding that repeatable reward you make sure to reward players with 24 hours a day to spend on the game. That's also bad reward design.

[Feanor.2358]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Like in fractals. Dugeons pre hot and i suppose still have a better system. Ppl can play for as long as they want and not feel like they hit a wall or that they're rewarded very poorly because they want to play more of the content the game offers

Swamps of the Mists was a thing pre hot. Fortunately they fixed that by adding the daily system, without it the fractal system was horrible and gave incentive to run only the same fractal (the fastest one). With a daily system there is incentive to run a different set of fractals every day, so variety wins.

As for Dungeons, they now give you a reward for running 8 different individual paths. In the beginning it was all about running CoF P1 with as many characters as possible. Then more "easy" paths were added but we never had incentive to run

8

of those. The system was similar to the fractal one, run the fastest/easiest path. Now at least you can be rewarded for running 8 different paths. They could expand this and make Dungeon Master repeatable (finish every dungeon path for an extra reward) but the reward would need to be amazing to give incentive to do so.

And they killed any reason to do fractals after the 3 daily ones. This is not a trade we should have to make other games have moved past this and allowed for ppl to have more to do with their game and time.

The way dungeons worked allowed you put alot more effort into each path learn it and optimise it because u werent limite to once or twice a week for said path. Even today's dungeon system with the refreshable 8 paths allows for this to some extent to happen.

The only thing that remotely resembles that in fotm are cms.

Honestly the daily t1-4 feel more like a job than playing the game.

And doing fractal 40 over and over and over for hours feels like a game? Yeah, no. I'd much rather have the current system, thank you very much.

Lol who said repeating the same fractal over and over and over. This is poor balancing in terms of rewards or the fractal it self being outlier. Something which they adress with updates.

Im saying that i dont want raids to become something that i do 5 or 6 encounters of per week and dont touch again while theres so much more of them to play. Which is exactly what fractals are atm.

You'll always have a single fastest fractal. They killed fractal 40 farm, people started to do the same on 42. If it wasn't for the dailies, you can bet these would be the only decent groups you'd find.

And I'm not saying raids should be 5-6 encounters per week. But they shouldn't expand indefinitely either. But 5 wings per week is actually nice. 6 may be fine too. 10? Way too much.

I get yoyr point but theres ppl who cant clear 5 or 6 wings and ppl who clear multiple times (even on alts). I dont think the game should hard limit ppl from playing more of their game's content (which is what imo fractals suffer from atm). It all really depends on ppl's time.Have some weeklies dailies with more loot and then have enticing rewards for the other fractals/raid wings so if someone (god forbid) has more than 2 hours a week can play the content they enjoy.

As for always having a single faster fractal, idd but much like swampland and molten duo they try to adress that.

That's the thing. What the fractal system does is to give an even ground to people with very different amounts of free time to play. Note that some people still farm the fractals. So you can invest more time and get more rewards if you like. But it's just a choice you make, much like the choice to farm SW, Tarir or Istan. But it's not like you get extra gated rewards (cosmic essences, various kps or LI). All these have a very prominent use in getting you in various groups. Now imagine if these weren't restricted and could be farmed. How much would it inflate LFG requirements? And what would happen with people who have the time to clear now, but don't have the time to farm the same content for hours every day?

As for addressing the single fastest fractal issue, they're addressing it, but it's just changing which one is fastest. Like I said, when 40 got changed people just moved to 42. If that gets changed, they'll move to another again.

[zealex.9410]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:Shattered and nightmare would be run regardless of the t4 dailies. Cms put plenty of reason to run them.

Talking about their normal versions not the CM version. What about Twilight Oasis then that doesn't have a CM? CMs are irrelevant, the harder or more challenging fractals will stop being run the moment they remove the daily system and the only reason all fractals are still being run is because we have that system.

Cms are very relevant, they work outside the daily t4 and recc system and they give enhanced rewards which fir the time they take are actually pretty ok. Im positive theres more shattered or nightmare being done weekly than any other fractal and thats great, they hae the most replayability.

Oasis will have prob a hard time or would have idk its only once or twice a week so if i miss it i do ti get to run it /s.

Guess goes to show how much ppl love the oldschool dungeon like fractals.

Fractals and raids could work with both systems, have the 3 or w/e fractals with enhanced rewards so ppl can do those and get the bulk of rewards and have a repeatable "do x diff fractals" "do x raid encounters". U got the best of both worlds.

Even if you add a "do x raid encounters" "incentive" that won't help the less run paths. Just see how many are running Arah P4 for example.Plus by adding that repeatable reward you make sure to reward players with 24 hours a day to spend on the game. That's also bad reward design.

Why is bad design to reward players for putting more time into the game when Ow, pvp, wvw, etc all work like that?

If someone wants to spend 1, 4 or 24 hours in a game tthats their choice if they want to spend their time like that.

Thats a minority tho which is w/e.

[zealex.9410]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Like in fractals. Dugeons pre hot and i suppose still have a better system. Ppl can play for as long as they want and not feel like they hit a wall or that they're rewarded very poorly because they want to play more of the content the game offers

Swamps of the Mists was a thing pre hot. Fortunately they fixed that by adding the daily system, without it the fractal system was horrible and gave incentive to run only the same fractal (the fastest one). With a daily system there is incentive to run a different set of fractals every day, so variety wins.

As for Dungeons, they now give you a reward for running 8 different individual paths. In the beginning it was all about running CoF P1 with as many characters as possible. Then more "easy" paths were added but we never had incentive to run

8

of those. The system was similar to the fractal one, run the fastest/easiest path. Now at least you can be rewarded for running 8 different paths. They could expand this and make Dungeon Master repeatable (finish every dungeon path for an extra reward) but the reward would need to be amazing to give incentive to do so.

And they killed any reason to do fractals after the 3 daily ones. This is not a trade we should have to make other games have moved past this and allowed for ppl to have more to do with their game and time.

The way dungeons worked allowed you put alot more effort into each path learn it and optimise it because u werent limite to once or twice a week for said path. Even today's dungeon system with the refreshable 8 paths allows for this to some extent to happen.

The only thing that remotely resembles that in fotm are cms.

Honestly the daily t1-4 feel more like a job than playing the game.

And doing fractal 40 over and over and over for hours feels like a game? Yeah, no. I'd much rather have the current system, thank you very much.

Lol who said repeating the same fractal over and over and over. This is poor balancing in terms of rewards or the fractal it self being outlier. Something which they adress with updates.

Im saying that i dont want raids to become something that i do 5 or 6 encounters of per week and dont touch again while theres so much more of them to play. Which is exactly what fractals are atm.

You'll always have a single fastest fractal. They killed fractal 40 farm, people started to do the same on 42. If it wasn't for the dailies, you can bet these would be the only decent groups you'd find.

And I'm not saying raids should be 5-6 encounters per week. But they shouldn't expand indefinitely either. But 5 wings per week is actually nice. 6 may be fine too. 10? Way too much.

I get yoyr point but theres ppl who cant clear 5 or 6 wings and ppl who clear multiple times (even on alts). I dont think the game should hard limit ppl from playing more of their game's content (which is what imo fractals suffer from atm). It all really depends on ppl's time.Have some weeklies dailies with more loot and then have enticing rewards for the other fractals/raid wings so if someone (god forbid) has more than 2 hours a week can play the content they enjoy.

As for always having a single faster fractal, idd but much like swampland and molten duo they try to adress that.

That's the thing. What the fractal system does is to give an even ground to people with very different amounts of free time to play. Note that some people

still

farm the fractals. So you

can

invest more time and get more rewards if you like. But it's just a choice you make, much like the choice to farm SW, Tarir or Istan. But it's not like you get extra gated rewards (cosmic essences, various kps or LI). All these have a very prominent use in getting you in various groups. Now imagine if these weren't restricted and could be farmed. How much would it inflate LFG requirements? And what would happen with people who have the time to clear now, but don't have the time to farm the same content for hours every day?

As for addressing the single fastest fractal issue, they're addressing it, but it's just changing which one is fastest. Like I said, when 40 got changed people just moved to 42. If that gets changed, they'll move to another again.

Dont twists things. I never said to make dailies themselves repeatable, just the base content.

U can do Ow metas multiple times a day for the full value. U can do fractals once a day for great value and then not do them again because if you are looking for worthwile content might as well do said ow.

U play how much u want/can just because someone might not be able or doesnt want to play for more than an hour a day why does every one else have to nit be rewarded after that first hour?

Thats like saying "dont realese too much content because i wont be able to farm it"I dont think u should be able to do daily t4 or daily cms endlessly and get li or cosmic essense each time.

The fastest fractal will keep changing and they will keep tunning, its an ever evolving mmo. Thats the reason why i said also having a system that rewards doing more diff instances and not spam 1 single instance.

[maddoctor.2738]

@zealex.9410 said:Cms are very relevant, they work outside the daily t4 and recc system and they give enhanced rewards which fir the time they take are actually pretty ok. Im positive theres more shattered or nightmare being done weekly than any other fractal and thats great, they hae the most replayability.

Yes but CMs don't have anything to do with the normal version of those fractals.

Why is bad design to reward players for putting more time into the game when Ow, pvp, wvw, etc all work like that?All the major/unique rewards are once per day, like the large meta rewards, world boss rewards and so on. As for PvP rewards they are very limited by the active season.

The fastest fractal will keep changing and they will keep tunning, its an ever evolving mmo. Thats the reason why i said also having a system that rewards doing more diff instances and not spam 1 single instance.That's what the daily system for fractals does.

[Malediktus.9250]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

living story is so successful they forgot about other content and cut funds for the sustainers of the game like raiders and fractal players who constantly play this game everyday for hours. doesn't look successful at all.instead the living story they could make dungeons via that stories and make unique sets and weapons skins from that dungeon to force people to play together and actually think and play the game and not just do story once, 2nd time for achievements and that's it. nothing to do anymore. gameplay in story isn't fun at all. dungeons would be fun. and final conclusion of story like mordremoth, scarlet, zhaitan, balthazar etc to be raid bosses. boom, people grind this game everyday for hours and not play some story once and quit till another chapter comes. people don't go back doing story. they just do it to unlock maps and rewards without effort. there's no real progression behind living story.

And yet people keep playing. The add a new raid, and they get 10% of the people who play playing. They add a new living world, and I'm sure they get a bigger return on that investment. Obviously they must if they keep doing it.

what bigger return? do story once, do some achievement in maps, farm it a bit and that's it. what really gives 'em return is the gemstore. what keep the player base are raids. no raids means no end game. no end game means people won't play this game and won't spend money on gemstore. people invent a lot of gold just to gear characters for raids. some evne buy gems and convert 'em to gold. casual players don't need gear. all they need are skins and some are exclusive to raiding.

Bigger return means getting more people playing the game for more hours. Surely that's logical. More people spending money in the gem store. That's the biggest return. The living story obviously provides that, and raids probably don't. Because if raids did that's what they'd be doing.

And if they didn't, they wouldn't be doing them. And they do. For all the complaints about the pace, it can't be much faster in this game. You need to balance the pace of adding new content with the pace the players interested in them exhaust it. This does not mean the pace at which the top, hardcore players exhaust it. It means the pace of the average raider.

Plus, they probably want to limit the weekly raiding time somehow instead of extending it indefinitely. Meaning they probably won't want to rush new wings until they have a good idea how to do it.

I believe the weekly raiding time is a non issue. If your group only has 2 hours a week do your favorite 4 raid wings. Noone is forced to do all of them. Even if there would be 1000 raid wings it would not be a problem. In fact it would be a breath of fresh air to have enough choices to not have to do the same bosses every week.

Mmm... if you only do your favorites, you'll always have the feeling you're missing out something. I think it would be better to have a "weekly raid wings" system in place, much like we have daily fractals. The game should give you an incentive to play a different subset every week. This way it will both give you a sense of job well done

and

it will keep you entertained longer, as what you suggest would become routine grind much faster. Some variance is always preferable.I prefer not. I already hate the fact that the game chooses which fractals to play for me (and not even randomized, the rotation stays the same until Anet brings a fractal update like 1-2 times a year)

"Missing out" is just a psychological problem. Everywhere in life you have to set priorities since a day only has 24 hours.

[Feanor.2358]

@"Malediktus.9250" said:"Missing out" is just a psychological problem. Everywhere in life you have to set priorities since a day only has 24 hours.

Of course. But it is a problem many players will have. As a game developer, you can wish for them to change, or you can adapt your design to circumvent the issue.

[Malediktus.9250]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:"Missing out" is just a psychological problem. Everywhere in life you have to set priorities since a day only has 24 hours.

Of course. But it is a problem many players

will

have. As a game developer, you can wish for them to change, or you can adapt your design to circumvent the issue.

And ruin raids the same way they ruined fractals back then?

[zealex.9410]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Cms are very relevant, they work outside the daily t4 and recc system and they give enhanced rewards which fir the time they take are actually pretty ok. Im positive theres more shattered or nightmare being done weekly than any other fractal and thats great, they hae the most replayability.

Yes but CMs don't have anything to do with the normal version of those fractals.

Why is bad design to reward players for putting more time into the game when Ow, pvp, wvw, etc all work like that?All the major/unique rewards are once per day, like the large meta rewards, world boss rewards and so on. As for PvP rewards they are very limited by the active season.

The fastest fractal will keep changing and they will keep tunning, its an ever evolving mmo. Thats the reason why i said also having a system that rewards doing more diff instances and not spam 1 single instance.That's what the daily system for fractals does.

Cms are not diff fractals, shattered cm is still shattered when im playong 100cm i playing that specific content multiple times. When i play cliff side in the daily t4s i do ot once a week when its on rota.

What major unique rewards are locked once a day for metas? It even matter tho theres still value from doing them multiple time for the non unique rewards.

[maddoctor.2738]

@zealex.9410 said:Cms are not diff fractals, shattered cm is still shattered when im playong 100cm i playing that specific content multiple times. When i play cliff side in the daily t4s i do ot once a week when its on rota.

Nothing is stopping you from playing any fractal you want at any point you want. The dailies are there to focus the fractal runners on specific ones so all of them get the spotlight.

What major unique rewards are locked once a day for metas? It even matter tho theres still value from doing them multiple time for the non unique rewards.The actual rewards that you do the metas for, like Amalgamated Gemstones, Reclaimed Metal Plates, Intact Mosaics and so on. There is value in doing them multiple times, as much as there is value in running Fractals multiple times, for more greens and blues.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Malediktus.9250" said:I prefer not. I already hate the fact that the game chooses which fractals to play for me (and not even randomized, the rotation stays the same until Anet brings a fractal update like 1-2 times a year)

"Missing out" is just a psychological problem. Everywhere in life you have to set priorities since a day only has 24 hours.

If the game didn't pick which Fractal you should play (it doesn't btw, you can always run any fractal you want nothing is actually stopping you) then the easiest/fastest fractals would be the only ones that were being run. Just like how the game was before they added the daily fractals!

Also, randomizing them wouldn't make much sense. By having the same rotation players can actually plan on which day to run (for a specific fractal they want to run) instead of logging in, seeing the available ones, logging out.

[zealex.9410]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Cms are not diff fractals, shattered cm is still shattered when im playong 100cm i playing that specific content multiple times. When i play cliff side in the daily t4s i do ot once a week when its on rota.

Nothing is stopping you from playing any fractal you want at any point you want. The dailies are there to focus the fractal runners on specific ones so all of them get the spotlight.

If i wanted tk nake some gold or anything or say that i got value for the time i spend then no i dont get that from post daily fractals. Dungeons ow etc are all alot more profitabke to do post daily t4s.

What major unique rewards are locked once a day for metas? It even matter tho theres still value from doing them multiple time for the non unique rewards.The actual rewards that you do the metas for, like Amalgamated Gemstones, Reclaimed Metal Plates, Intact Mosaics and so on. There is value in doing them multiple times, as much as there is value in running Fractals multiple times, for more greens and blues.

Are you certain is once oer day and not once per meta? im pretty sure its once per meta since i was doing them alot to cut down on the cost of buying the stones.

And besides just opening the bags and salvaging the gear fives a good return making them worth running

[Cyninja.2954]

@zealex.9410 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:The actual rewards that you do the metas for, like Amalgamated Gemstones, Reclaimed Metal Plates, Intact Mosaics and so on. There is value in doing them multiple times, as much as there is value in running Fractals multiple times, for more greens and blues.

Are you certain is once oer day and not once per meta? im pretty sure its once per meta since i was doing them alot to cut down on the cost of buying the stones.

And besides just opening the bags and salvaging the gear fives a good return making them worth running

Be sure, but it's once per day.

Case in point: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tangled_Depths:_Hero%27s_Choice_Chest

Obtained from Gerent's Chest in Tangled Depths, once per day per account.

All other map metas follow suite like AB, Tequatle, VB, etc.

[Malediktus.9250]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:I prefer not. I already hate the fact that the game chooses which fractals to play for me (and not even randomized, the rotation stays the same until Anet brings a fractal update like 1-2 times a year)

"Missing out" is just a psychological problem. Everywhere in life you have to set priorities since a day only has 24 hours.

If the game didn't pick which Fractal you should play (it doesn't btw, you can always run any fractal you want nothing is actually stopping you) then the easiest/fastest fractals would be the only ones that were being run. Just like how the game was before they added the daily fractals!

Also, randomizing them wouldn't make much sense. By having the same rotation players can actually plan on which day to run (for a specific fractal they want to run) instead of logging in, seeing the available ones, logging out.

The rewards for fractals not in daily rotation are completly worthless though.

And your 2nd argument is irrelevant also. I bet less than 1% of the fractal players know the 25 day rotation by heart. Even less if you include the daily changing instabilities.

[Feanor.2358]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:"Missing out" is just a psychological problem. Everywhere in life you have to set priorities since a day only has 24 hours.

Of course. But it is a problem many players

will

have. As a game developer, you can wish for them to change, or you can adapt your design to circumvent the issue.

And ruin raids the same way they ruined fractals back then?

I don't see ruined fractals. And no, their rewards outside the daily cycle aren't completely worthless either. People used to run F40 for the gold and karma. They run F42 now for the same reasons. It was never very popular, but only because it was never easy to get an efficient enough group to make the g/hr worthwhile. And I'd say it shouldn't be. Speedruns like this will burn most players out of the game in no time. You shouldn't give incentives for that.

[Etheri.5406]

@Malediktus.9250 said:I can agree with @"Etheri.5406". He is making a lot of good points and I can admit that despite having him on my ingame blocklist for annoying me in WvW lol.

Were you on ranger? :thinking:

I find it funny that GW2 was designed as a no-grind game. You don't "need" to do fractals. Yet they were added for vertical progression, with rewards and incentives. Players grinded it to fractal god, then realised they didn't even enjoy the gameplay anymore.

I find it sad the community asks anet to make the game more grindy and "rewarding", then grinds that content & those rewards until it's neither fun or rewarding anymore; then blames anet for it. The game allows you to play whatever you find fun. If you're farming fractals because you feel like you need to you're making questionable life decisions.

I wish anet would make more FUN content, rather than REWARDING content. But hey, what do I know ;) No forum credibility :trollface:

[Feanor.2358]

@Etheri.5406 said:I wish anet would make more FUN content, rather than REWARDING content. But hey, what do I know ;) No forum credibility :trollface:

Fun is subjective, rewards are universal.I get what you're saying, but it's not as easy as it sounds. And even the most fun content turns into routine grind after repeating it for a while. You cannot create new content at the pace players exhaust it. It's physically impossible, not to mention extremely expensive.

[Etheri.5406]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:I wish anet would make more FUN content, rather than REWARDING content. But hey, what do I know ;) No forum credibility :trollface:

Fun is subjective, rewards are universal.I get what you're saying, but it's not as easy as it sounds. And even the most fun content turns into routine grind after repeating it for a while. You cannot create new content at the pace players exhaust it. It's physically impossible, not to mention extremely expensive.

Reward inbalance (which is quite large at this point in the game) promotes playing what is rewarding OR what you find fun; rather than playing what you find FUN and getting fair rewards for it. This only SPEEDS UP the exhaustion of content, as non-rewarding content is exhausted sooner, struggles maintaining players and activity and eventually runs dry. Meanwhile high-rewarding content is often grinded on repeat, which also makes players burn out faster.

Content replayability goes DOWN with having reward inbalance. Yet players just want more and more rewards and the moment rewards are nerfed they lose their minds.

How active are istan and SW compared to less rewarding maps? even similar large-meta oriented maps?

But hey; demanding high-rewards on the favorite content of XXX is more important than long-term game health. I remember having core maps played occasionally when map rewards are high. Those trains are fully dead cause istan is better. I remember some orr maps having reward trains. Also dead, istan and sw are plain better. Not a little bit either, several factors...

If rewards aren't being balanced; and right now they really aren't, do you think the dev efforts for low-reward maps are worthwhile? How active is the map for S4E2 compared to S4E1 (istan)? How will these maps compare long term? Does it improve the value of your development efforts to have the maps be almost ignored for being not rewarding compared to other ones?

And yeah, balancing rewards... Who'd have thought that's something you should do? :trollface: It's not even that difficult, just need to ignore the insane amount of tears when you nerf some insane material farms.I remember fractals being nerfed along with dungeons making overall rewars in the game more even. I remember players losing their minds about it, until everything (including HoT maps) were buffed. I don't remember it doing well for replayability. I do remember it leading to certain things getting grinded more.

I see them ignore istan, still. How do you think istan promotes either replayability or game health on the long term? I don't think it does either. I remember how "dungeons were played" because of obscene rewards; and how quickly this "fun gameplay" was abandonned when they weren't top rewards anymore.

I realise it's impossible to put everything on the same line. I do think it's possible to bring them MUCH closer together than they are now. Iteratively, as always.Perhaps we need some GPH benchmarks ;) I expect factor 5 to factor 10 differences between high anad low end farms.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I can agree with @Etheri.5406. He is making a lot of good points and I can admit that

despite having him on my ingame blocklist for annoying me in WvW lol.

Were you on ranger? :thinking:

I find it funny that GW2 was designed as a no-grind game. You don't "need" to do fractals. Yet they were added for vertical progression, with rewards and incentives. Players grinded it to fractal god, then realised they didn't even enjoy the gameplay anymore.

I find it sad the community asks anet to make the game more grindy and "rewarding", then grinds that content & those rewards until it's neither fun or rewarding anymore; then blames anet for it. The game allows you to play whatever you find fun. If you're farming fractals because you feel like you need to you're making questionable life decisions.

I wish anet would make more FUN content, rather than REWARDING content. But hey, what do I know ;) No forum credibility :trollface:

MMO can't exist without a grind.