New boss release rate

[zealex.9410]

@"maxwelgm.4315" said:For a large portion of the game's life (I'd say up until the release of LS3 which is not long ago at all!), GW2 was kind of "lost" and developers couldn't fixate on what they actually wanted the game to be. Too much experimentation was done for too long, from the awfully unplanned Season 01 that can't be replayed by people, leaving an actual, meaningful gap in our personal story, to wasting a reasonable amount of real life money in promoting the already dying PvP scene as Esports. Raids were announced with HoT as part of this experimentation, they decided to develop something, I believe, simply because they didn't develop it into the game before. They are now at a point where they kind of know what to do with the game, but having the entire core game basically amount to a glorified beta surely has taken its toll.

A lot of their experiments get abandoned and the game goes on accumulating content that is clearly cut in half. To mention a few, everything related to Guilds and Guild halls, WvW in its entirety, dungeons, the many festivals that are full repetitions with barely any new additions every year, sPvP in its entirety, among other things. Now, even if Raids did not get abandoned (yet?), their overall design philosophy of always looking for something "new", "innovative", "shinier", instead of going for a better cadence at the cost of this constant innovation, still shows there very sharply. Many can say the bosses are released too slowly and that we have few of them, but I don't see a lot of people complaining, on the other hand (and that is a complaint you can make to WoW bosses), that bosses are too much of a repetition and/or feel too unoriginal. We can't quite say KC is the same as Gorseval or VG is the same as any of those because time has been taken to ensure the bosses remain a unique and as interesting of a challenge as possible even if it's not an insane level of challenge. In sum, I can't say if this is a good or bad thing objectively, but I definitely like the bosses that we do have, to the point I strongly oppose that they decided to improve release cadence if they have to resort to what other MMOs do (which is, masking your lack of boss uniqueness and new mechanics with vertical progression). However, I can obviously understand the frustration of people who enjoy this content so much that they do it regularly and have already exhausted their gameplay with the current selection of instances.

I think its easier to say that wow's raid bosses might feel too simmilar or repetitive because they've been doing it for 10+ years and each raid release for the is a full 7-13 boss raid.

[zealex.9410]

@"Vinceman.4572" said:Lel, the jungle is active because of 3 meta event or event parts:

1. Wyvern in Verdant Brink for the daily gemstone - nothing else. The hardcore or non-casual community spawns on the platform because they have toons there. Almost no one is doing T4 on VB any more. It's kinda funny everytime you start the fight with the hardcore guys and good dmg and when the "casuals" arrive you need 4 times longer to get the hp-bar down.
2. Chak Gerent - Where people use one way point in Tangled Depths, namely "Ley-Line Confluence Waypoint" to get to the 4 lanes, rarely seen: "shroom up" so people kill the treasure shroom before the meta. Nobody is interested in anything else there. Oh and I forgot, most of the people are about 15-25 minute afk and just reserve their place on the map. Almost all of them are doing nothing till spawn due to a simple reason: There's nothing of important value to do.
3. Battle of Tarir - Right after Gerent the crowd switches over and meet some others that haven't participated in Gerent. Again, one meta fight, nothing else.

Do you know the situation afterwards? The maps are empty as before because there is nothing else left. Increase the rewards on Desolation and Vabbi meta and you'll have the same result for those maps and there will be no difference at all compared to the jungle maps. It's the rewards that bring people together. It has been like that in the past and it'll in the future. Same reason why people play Istan. Hey, even the freaking Silverwastes has a "RIBA" lfg on every hour at the day. You can also count fractals to that. The pure T4 + Recs variant is 20+g every day. Delete that + the need for precursor achievements and the lfg would be emptier than the earth after a nuclear war.

Tbh, the HoT maps are fine, the PoF maps too. When I wasn't interested in legendaries series 2, achievements and maxing out masteries I didn't spend any minute longer in the HoT sector. It's only the metas that bring people back. Hey even speed run guilds are there during night (qT south lane meme)...just because there's a meta and then they leave again.

In no way are the HoT maps better than the PoF maps. It's just about the meta rewards.

I disagree. Highly preference but the map team imo did a better job with the hot maps. Pof maps are great but they are alot less interesting than the hot ones.

Also Hot imo does a better job of bringing ppl together and putting the mmo to gw2 which i find is limited in core (outside of world bosses) and esp in pof.

Activities and events in hot were more group based in general.

[Vayne.8563]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

[zealex.9410]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

[Vayne.8563]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

Is the game successful though?

[zealex.9410]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

It wasnt the format that killed esports. It was the balance that killed it. Theyve also been doing lw for years but its format has changed sagnificantly with each itteration bar the last one.

[Vayne.8563]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

Is the game successful though?

It's one of the most successful MMOs in the last six years. By any standard I know of it's successful. The real tip is that there's usually a business plan in place and if a game exceeds expectations, it's successful, which seems to be the case with Guild Wars 2. At least that's what's been said by NcSoft at stock calls. There have been no big layoffs. The game is six years old. It's still coming out with regular updates. It's still considered one of the more successful MMOs.

The only scale in which this is not successful if you compare it with WoW. And that's not a measure of success, only of dominance in an industry. It's comparable with pretty much every other MMO that's come out in the time frame.

[Vinceman.4572]

@zealex.9410 said:Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Yeah, that's us when we sit in front of the PC for 4+ hours a day. Sure, we are doing other stuff as well but still we are playing more than the majority of players. No wonder that we eat content that fast. See, I don't exempt myself from it but here we are again: in our bubble, our surrounding. That's not what others look like!

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

They were also wrong with open world difficulty in HoT and made it easier. Something I also couldn't understand since I had no problems when running around, especially not with friends or groups/squads. But I had to accept it, the majority wanted or needed it.

@zealex.9410 said:I disagree. Highly preference but the map team imo did a better job with the hot maps. Pof maps are great but they are alot less interesting than the hot ones.

Subjective, nothing more, nothing less, tbh. Also, PoF hasn't had its focus on the map although a lot of people praised them on reddit. I still remember all the posts last year when they came out with the expansion and the problems after the first days were solved. People loved the design of the sulfur area in Desolation and were thankful for all the enclaves in the desert territories.Anyways, the focus was mounts and they delivered. Oh hell yeah, they delivered. They won several prices bringing the mount thing to the next level. I know all that is mostly directed towards casual gameplay and we only use them in wing 5 to bridge an abyss but here we go again: This game predominantly is for the casual crowd.

Also Hot imo does a better job of bringing ppl together and putting the mmo to gw2 which i find is limited in core (outside of world bosses) and esp in pof.

And there's a reason why they put people together. My whole paragraph is about that: The reward for metas. Put something similar to the Desolation and Vabbi meta, give something of value to the Augury Rock event in Elon Riverlands, same to the treasure hunt of Desert Highlands and you'll see different results immediately for sure. Look at Crystal Oases the Big Choya fight is always well visited - often different map instances because of the confetti infusion although they admitted only 11 of them have dropped since PoF release (which still is a horrible decision imho)!

Overall it was also a game design choice to not make them like HoT meta maps. I'm sure it's also crystal clear for you that they did this on purpose.

Activities and events in hot were more group based in general.

Not true, the usual events are as hard or easy as in PoF so there's no groups needed. The only events besides the meta where it is different are HoT hero points because a lot of players are not able to solo them. That's why people are organizing HP trains. PoF hero points are easier but there are also trains. You just don't see them because you don't look at those lfgs.

[Cristalyan.5728]

@"Malediktus.9250" said:

I believe we can agree that Anet is always delivering too slow and too little too late. And that applies regardless of the parts of the game you enjoy. Open world content, story, dungeons/fractals/raids, guild missions, achievements, pvp, wvw etc.And people on reddit always treat Anet as a small indie company. We cant do this - we cant have that - because it is too much work. So of course Anet can lean back and just continue their glacial slow speeds of everything - and still most of the time release something with a lot of flaws.Anet is a company with like 80mil of revenue per year and should not be treated as such. Saying something is too much work is most of the time not acceptable for such a large company.

Completely agree with everything. "Too slow, too little, too late" . Being a debate regarding the instanced content (raids) maybe I should not add this, but I cannot restrain: Where are our second generation Legendary weapons? You really need 3 months to design one? Now you skipped even the legendary journey - it is a brainless gathering fiesta. So, even in this conditions you need 3 months for a Legendary?Taking into account Anet statement that to design ONE armor they need even more months, then the OP should be content to a raid wing every 6-9 months. Theoretically you can have even 2 wings per year (in a good year, with only 6 months needed for a wing). In the same time you can have 4 legendary weapons. To count what we have: from the HoT launch we had 17 raid bosses. From the same Hot launch we had 13 Legendary weapons. I don't know how the raiders feel, but I think the fact that a legendary weapon is harder to design than a raid encounter is truly strange.

But, to be honest, this is not ANet's fault. It is our fault. A company failing to fulfill their promises should be sanctioned in some ways by the customers. What was our sanction: buying the next expansion, even if HoT is not even now complete. And accepting the "excuses" that ANet cannot work to finish HoT because they have another xPAC in progress. And then hearing the excuse with working on another aspect every time someone complained: no time for raids because we are working on fractals, no time for fractals because we have Legendaries to complete, no time for Legendary because we have LS to work on, delaying the launch of LS because we have no time etc.

With our tacit acceptance, ANet need no work. If we accept the argument with "no time" then we will have no content.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:

I believe we can agree that Anet is always delivering too slow and too little too late. And that applies regardless of the parts of the game you enjoy. Open world content, story, dungeons/fractals/raids, guild missions, achievements, pvp, wvw etc.And people on reddit always treat Anet as a small indie company. We cant do this - we cant have that - because it is too much work. So of course Anet can lean back and just continue their glacial slow speeds of everything - and still most of the time release something with a lot of flaws.Anet is a company with like 80mil of revenue per year and should not be treated as such. Saying something is too much work is most of the time not acceptable for such a large company.

Completely agree with everything. "Too slow, too little, too late" . Being a debate regarding the instanced content (raids) maybe I should not add this, but I cannot restrain: Where are our second generation Legendary weapons? You really need 3 months to design one? Now you skipped even the legendary journey - it is a brainless gathering fiesta. So, even in this conditions you need 3 months for a Legendary?Taking into account Anet statement that to design ONE armor they need even more months, then the OP should be content to a raid wing every 6-9 months. Theoretically you can have even 2 wings per year (in a good year, with only 6 months needed for a wing). In the same time you can have 4 legendary weapons. To count what we have: from the HoT launch we had 17 raid bosses. From the same Hot launch we had 13 Legendary weapons. I don't know how the raiders feel, but I think the fact that a legendary weapon is harder to design than a raid encounter is truly strange.

But, to be honest, this is not ANet's fault. It is our fault. A company failing to fulfill their promises should be sanctioned in some ways by the customers. What was our sanction: buying the

next

expansion, even if HoT is not even now complete. And accepting the "excuses" that ANet cannot work to finish HoT because they have another xPAC in progress. And then hearing the excuse with working on another aspect every time someone complained: no time for raids because we are working on fractals, no time for fractals because we have Legendaries to complete, no time for Legendary because we have LS to work on, delaying the launch of LS because we have no time etc.

With our tacit acceptance, ANet need no work. If we accept the argument with "no time" then we will have no content.

While I agree on most things being late.

The reason why customers do not "sanction" Arenanet and GW2 is simple: most of the competition is far worse.

I'd even bet that WoW is a lot worse in the story department and unique content department. Blizzard has not been original in years. They at best copy good competitor ideas. Plus rehashing the same content over and over and over. How often has the burning leagion or some kind if undead threatened Azeroth by now?

[zealex.9410]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Yeah, that's us when we sit in front of the PC for 4+ hours a day. Sure, we are doing other stuff as well but still we are playing more than the majority of players. No wonder that we eat content that fast. See, I don't exempt myself from it but here we are again: in our bubble, our surrounding. That's not what others look like!

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

They were also wrong with open world difficulty in HoT and made it easier. Something I also couldn't understand since I had no problems when running around, especially not with friends or groups/squads. But I had to accept it, the majority wanted or needed it.

@zealex.9410 said:I disagree. Highly preference but the map team imo did a better job with the hot maps. Pof maps are great but they are alot less interesting than the hot ones.

Subjective, nothing more, nothing less, tbh. Also, PoF hasn't had its focus on the map although a lot of people praised them on reddit. I still remember all the posts last year when they came out with the expansion and the problems after the first days were solved. People loved the design of the sulfur area in Desolation and were thankful for all the enclaves in the desert territories.Anyways, the focus was mounts and they delivered. Oh hell yeah, they delivered. They won several prices bringing the mount thing to the next level. I know all that is mostly directed towards casual gameplay and we only use them in wing 5 to bridge an abyss but here we go again: This game predominantly is for the casual crowd.

Also Hot imo does a better job of bringing ppl together and putting the mmo to gw2 which i find is limited in core (outside of world bosses) and esp in pof.

And there's a reason why they put people together. My whole paragraph is about that: The reward for metas. Put something similar to the Desolation and Vabbi meta, give something of value to the Augury Rock event in Elon Riverlands, same to the treasure hunt of Desert Highlands and you'll see different results immediately for sure. Look at Crystal Oases the Big Choya fight is always well visited - often different map instances because of the confetti infusion

although

they admitted only 11 of them have dropped since PoF release (which still is a horrible decision imho)!

Overall it was also a game design choice to not make them like HoT meta maps. I'm sure it's also crystal clear for you that they did this on purpose.

Activities and events in hot were more group based in general.

Not true, the usual events are as hard or easy as in PoF so there's no groups needed. The only events besides the meta where it is different are HoT hero points because a lot of players are not able to solo them. That's why people are organizing HP trains. PoF hero points are easier but there are also trains. You just don't see them because you don't look at those lfgs.

Play time in maps can drag alot if you are unlucky with groups or badly timed to do the events. Its not like if i play for 4 hours ill make progress every min of it. Maybe the first day ir so because im getting all the easy achievements but after that u just w8 for eveents to spawn and timegates to run out.

You can say just as easily that maps werent the main focus of Hot. Hot developed all the systems that are headlines for pof and future expacs. Maps have always been anets strong suit and they deliver in that area. Hot headlines were elite specs masteries and legendary crafting.

After a few days the problems with pof were solved? What problems? Because what i remember was them buffing the rewards across the board in pof with lw ep1 and ppl still complained. Lol 3 to 4 days after the exoac launch ppl were complaining that there was no content. But again the design of the maps was never bad i myself really enjoy the desert as a concept and the way anet made them. But still the design of hot maps was far more interesting to me imho.

[Draco.9480]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

Well it's not like we get much Open World content either, but the majority of the population is playing Open World, yet we get so little of it. And by Open World I mean repeatable open world encounters. Yes we got a new map with Episode 3, but the meta is boring, the map itself lacks reasons to revisit it, other than the achievement grind for the turrets. The bosses and events use old mechanics, and there is nothing new. A Bug in the System was also bad regarding the open world, Sandswept Isles is also barren and lacks players, as much as Domain Kourna does. Daybreak was fine, sure it had the Palawadan meta which wasn't very exciting, but I think Amala was a nice Open World boss. The zone itself had way more things to do including acquiring 2 brand new weapon sets (!!!) something rather unique for a Living World episode.

Always people on Sandswept Isles and frankly I find people in every Season 3 map and every Season 4 map so far. That's because it's not designed to zerg. People seem to think that if you don't have something like Palawadan or Auric Basin, a zone is dead. It's simply not true. A zone is populated and events tend to get done. They're simply done by people who don't want to zerg. There are plenty of us around, but you don't see us all together in one place, so it's easy to assume we're low in numbers.

I'm relatively sure that's not the case.

yeah i see how many people play the desert maps compared to the jungle. it's a joke. you don't see much activity in desert. minority of people who can't do anything in this game besides doing events in maps going to istan to get extra rewards and destroyed the value of T6 mats and the collection exotic weapons for the elite specs of PoF. jungle is always active. in HoT there were tons of people playing pvp and raids more actively. then the casual players who got used to dungeons which is is lame content got angry cuz they couldn't sync with other people in gameplay and failed hard and gave up. best maps are the jungle which 3 and 4 layers that needed actually thinking how to explore it and not cheese it with mounts in open flat map that anyone can do without thinking. people only in instan for rewards and that's it. they play like zombies and don't really enjoy it. the seasons in PvP are actually are anti competitive cuz it puts randoms with you. at start it was cool till they removed the premade of 5 people which killed it. I don't enjoy playing pvp anymore cuz I've to play with people I don't know and everyone flame and blame each other. can't even form pvp guilds cuz can't choose static pvp teams.

Umm, I'm in the desert, sometimes for hours at a time, and there are always people there. I rock up to a hero point and I have people show up quite often, almost as often as they do in HoT maps. I run into smaller groups as often.

HoT maps are smaller, denser and on timers. There are definitely more people at META events in HOT. If only maps just consisted of metas. Your annecdotal evidence differs from mine Presumably you don't spend time in the desert.

cuz nothing to do. 2nd the hp in desert aren't engaging, they melt in 5 seconds. jungle you who champs that are actually engaging in solo. i can fly more at the jungle than at the desert with griffon. you actually have more progression in the jungle with collections, raiding, legendary armor, currencies, skins and etc. for desert armor skins like bounty and others i just use pvp reward track. the desert bored me really quickly.

also if not the raids i wouldn't come back to the game. the moment they said raids in HoT expansion it dragged me back to the game. was so good till that lack of funding in PoF. a year passed and only a single wing with 2 bosses and 2 events during the 2nd expansion. this is disappointing. I barely do anything in this game now cuz of it.

[Draco.9480]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

living story is so successful they forgot about other content and cut funds for the sustainers of the game like raiders and fractal players who constantly play this game everyday for hours. doesn't look successful at all.instead the living story they could make dungeons via that stories and make unique sets and weapons skins from that dungeon to force people to play together and actually think and play the game and not just do story once, 2nd time for achievements and that's it. nothing to do anymore. gameplay in story isn't fun at all. dungeons would be fun. and final conclusion of story like mordremoth, scarlet, zhaitan, balthazar etc to be raid bosses. boom, people grind this game everyday for hours and not play some story once and quit till another chapter comes. people don't go back doing story. they just do it to unlock maps and rewards without effort. there's no real progression behind living story.

[Vayne.8563]

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

Well it's not like we get much Open World content either, but the majority of the population is playing Open World, yet we get so little of it. And by Open World I mean repeatable open world encounters. Yes we got a new map with Episode 3, but the meta is boring, the map itself lacks reasons to revisit it, other than the achievement grind for the turrets. The bosses and events use old mechanics, and there is nothing new. A Bug in the System was also bad regarding the open world, Sandswept Isles is also barren and lacks players, as much as Domain Kourna does. Daybreak was fine, sure it had the Palawadan meta which wasn't very exciting, but I think Amala was a nice Open World boss. The zone itself had way more things to do including acquiring 2 brand new weapon sets (!!!) something rather unique for a Living World episode.

Always people on Sandswept Isles and frankly I find people in every Season 3 map and every Season 4 map so far. That's because it's not designed to zerg. People seem to think that if you don't have something like Palawadan or Auric Basin, a zone is dead. It's simply not true. A zone is populated and events tend to get done. They're simply done by people who don't want to zerg. There are plenty of us around, but you don't see us all together in one place, so it's easy to assume we're low in numbers.

I'm relatively sure that's not the case.

yeah i see how many people play the desert maps compared to the jungle. it's a joke. you don't see much activity in desert. minority of people who can't do anything in this game besides doing events in maps going to istan to get extra rewards and destroyed the value of T6 mats and the collection exotic weapons for the elite specs of PoF. jungle is always active. in HoT there were tons of people playing pvp and raids more actively. then the casual players who got used to dungeons which is is lame content got angry cuz they couldn't sync with other people in gameplay and failed hard and gave up. best maps are the jungle which 3 and 4 layers that needed actually thinking how to explore it and not cheese it with mounts in open flat map that anyone can do without thinking. people only in instan for rewards and that's it. they play like zombies and don't really enjoy it. the seasons in PvP are actually are anti competitive cuz it puts randoms with you. at start it was cool till they removed the premade of 5 people which killed it. I don't enjoy playing pvp anymore cuz I've to play with people I don't know and everyone flame and blame each other. can't even form pvp guilds cuz can't choose static pvp teams.

Umm, I'm in the desert, sometimes for hours at a time, and there are always people there. I rock up to a hero point and I have people show up quite often, almost as often as they do in HoT maps. I run into smaller groups as often.

HoT maps are smaller, denser and on timers. There are definitely more people at META events in HOT. If only maps just consisted of metas. Your annecdotal evidence differs from mine Presumably you don't spend time in the desert.

cuz nothing to do. 2nd the hp in desert aren't engaging, they melt in 5 seconds. jungle you who champs that are actually engaging in solo. i can fly more at the jungle than at the desert with griffon. you actually have more progression in the jungle with collections, raiding, legendary armor, currencies, skins and etc. for desert armor skins like bounty and others i just use pvp reward track. the desert bored me really quickly.

also if not the raids i wouldn't come back to the game. the moment they said raids in HoT expansion it dragged me back to the game. was so good till that lack of funding in PoF. a year passed and only a single wing with 2 bosses and 2 events during the 2nd expansion. this is disappointing. I barely do anything in this game now cuz of it.

That's why there are different areas for different people who play the game. There are people who still avoid HoT like the plague, and some people who have never even bought it. What you do is fine. That's true. You do it. But that doesn't mean that other people don't do other things. There are some people that even find PoF too hard.

[Vayne.8563]

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

living story is so successful they forgot about other content and cut funds for the sustainers of the game like raiders and fractal players who constantly play this game everyday for hours. doesn't look successful at all.instead the living story they could make dungeons via that stories and make unique sets and weapons skins from that dungeon to force people to play together and actually think and play the game and not just do story once, 2nd time for achievements and that's it. nothing to do anymore. gameplay in story isn't fun at all. dungeons would be fun. and final conclusion of story like mordremoth, scarlet, zhaitan, balthazar etc to be raid bosses. boom, people grind this game everyday for hours and not play some story once and quit till another chapter comes. people don't go back doing story. they just do it to unlock maps and rewards without effort. there's no real progression behind living story.

And yet people keep playing. The add a new raid, and they get 10% of the people who play playing. They add a new living world, and I'm sure they get a bigger return on that investment. Obviously they must if they keep doing it.

[Draco.9480]

@"Vinceman.4572" said:Lel, the jungle is active because of 3 meta event or event parts:

1. Wyvern in Verdant Brink for the daily gemstone - nothing else. The hardcore or non-casual community spawns on the platform because they have toons there. Almost no one is doing T4 on VB any more. It's kinda funny everytime you start the fight with the hardcore guys and good dmg and when the "casuals" arrive you need 4 times longer to get the hp-bar down.
2. Chak Gerent - Where people use one way point in Tangled Depths, namely "Ley-Line Confluence Waypoint" to get to the 4 lanes, rarely seen: "shroom up" so people kill the treasure shroom before the meta. Nobody is interested in anything else there. Oh and I forgot, most of the people are about 15-25 minute afk and just reserve their place on the map. Almost all of them are doing nothing till spawn due to a simple reason: There's nothing of important value to do.
3. Battle of Tarir - Right after Gerent the crowd switches over and meet some others that haven't participated in Gerent. Again, one meta fight, nothing else.

Do you know the situation afterwards? The maps are empty as before because there is nothing else left. Increase the rewards on Desolation and Vabbi meta and you'll have the same result for those maps and there will be no difference at all compared to the jungle maps. It's the rewards that bring people together. It has been like that in the past and it'll in the future. Same reason why people play Istan. Hey, even the freaking Silverwastes has a "RIBA" lfg on every hour at the day. You can also count fractals to that. The pure T4 + Recs variant is 20+g every day. Delete that + the need for precursor achievements and the lfg would be emptier than the earth after a nuclear war.

Tbh, the HoT maps are fine, the PoF maps too. When I wasn't interested in legendaries series 2, achievements and maxing out masteries I didn't spend any minute longer in the HoT sector. It's only the metas that bring people back. Hey even speed run guilds are there during night (qT south lane meme)...just because there's a meta and then they leave again.

In no way are the HoT maps better than the PoF maps. It's just about the meta rewards.

cuz flat maps are the same as complex 3-4 layers maps with closing wps at last map and champs as hp and making new players get lost is the same right?

[Vinceman.4572]

@Draco.9480 said:cuz flat maps are the same as complex 3-4 layers maps with closing wps at last map and champs as hp and making new players get lost is the same right?

Eh? What does that add to your argumentation? Quite nothing.People still don't play on this map because there are complex layers. They are not there, what do you even talk about, lol. They just go to these map because of the metas. I also mentioned HP trains, they are there as well for PoF maps. Meanwhile a lot of people can solo the HoT hero points. Easy peasy brain afk with some builds like old school minion master core necro. Hero points + metas = the only reason to visit HoT maps - nothing freaking else.And getting lost on a HoT map is nothing that adds value to casual players, it's more of a nightmare for them and a reason for never coming back again. There is nothing of that on PoF maps what a lot of players on those maps prefer and they declare it almost every day in map chat. ^^

[Draco.9480]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

living story is so successful they forgot about other content and cut funds for the sustainers of the game like raiders and fractal players who constantly play this game everyday for hours. doesn't look successful at all.instead the living story they could make dungeons via that stories and make unique sets and weapons skins from that dungeon to force people to play together and actually think and play the game and not just do story once, 2nd time for achievements and that's it. nothing to do anymore. gameplay in story isn't fun at all. dungeons would be fun. and final conclusion of story like mordremoth, scarlet, zhaitan, balthazar etc to be raid bosses. boom, people grind this game everyday for hours and not play some story once and quit till another chapter comes. people don't go back doing story. they just do it to unlock maps and rewards without effort. there's no real progression behind living story.

And yet people keep playing. The add a new raid, and they get 10% of the people who play playing. They add a new living world, and I'm sure they get a bigger return on that investment. Obviously they must if they keep doing it.

what bigger return? do story once, do some achievement in maps, farm it a bit and that's it. what really gives 'em return is the gemstore. what keep the player base are raids. no raids means no end game. no end game means people won't play this game and won't spend money on gemstore. people invent a lot of gold just to gear characters for raids. some evne buy gems and convert 'em to gold. casual players don't need gear. all they need are skins and some are exclusive to raiding.

[Vayne.8563]

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

living story is so successful they forgot about other content and cut funds for the sustainers of the game like raiders and fractal players who constantly play this game everyday for hours. doesn't look successful at all.instead the living story they could make dungeons via that stories and make unique sets and weapons skins from that dungeon to force people to play together and actually think and play the game and not just do story once, 2nd time for achievements and that's it. nothing to do anymore. gameplay in story isn't fun at all. dungeons would be fun. and final conclusion of story like mordremoth, scarlet, zhaitan, balthazar etc to be raid bosses. boom, people grind this game everyday for hours and not play some story once and quit till another chapter comes. people don't go back doing story. they just do it to unlock maps and rewards without effort. there's no real progression behind living story.

And yet people keep playing. The add a new raid, and they get 10% of the people who play playing. They add a new living world, and I'm sure they get a bigger return on that investment. Obviously they must if they keep doing it.

what bigger return? do story once, do some achievement in maps, farm it a bit and that's it. what really gives 'em return is the gemstore. what keep the player base are raids. no raids means no end game. no end game means people won't play this game and won't spend money on gemstore. people invent a lot of gold just to gear characters for raids. some evne buy gems and convert 'em to gold. casual players don't need gear. all they need are skins and some are exclusive to raiding.

Bigger return means getting more people playing the game for more hours. Surely that's logical. More people spending money in the gem store. That's the biggest return. The living story obviously provides that, and raids probably don't. Because if raids did that's what they'd be doing.

Let's flip the page. A new raid, if that's what it was would get me to play exactly zero seconds. None. Not one. A new zone keeps me busy, usually for weeks. That's a fact for me. My experience. That's because I personally don't enjoy raids and I personally find them a waste of my time. So what does a new raid do for me. If 90% of the playerbase doesn't raid, what does it do for them?

I'm willing to wager more people do living story than raid. I'm willing to wager more people log in to do the story. And I'm willing to wager more people spend more time in game over it. Furthermore, I believe more people spend more on gems. That's more return for the company, which is precisely why companies form in the first place. To make money.

[Dante.1763]

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

living story is so successful they forgot about other content and cut funds for the sustainers of the game like raiders and fractal players who constantly play this game everyday for hours. doesn't look successful at all.instead the living story they could make dungeons via that stories and make unique sets and weapons skins from that dungeon to force people to play together and actually think and play the game and not just do story once, 2nd time for achievements and that's it. nothing to do anymore. gameplay in story isn't fun at all. dungeons would be fun. and final conclusion of story like mordremoth, scarlet, zhaitan, balthazar etc to be raid bosses. boom, people grind this game everyday for hours and not play some story once and quit till another chapter comes. people don't go back doing story. they just do it to unlock maps and rewards without effort. there's no real progression behind living story.

And yet people keep playing. The add a new raid, and they get 10% of the people who play playing. They add a new living world, and I'm sure they get a bigger return on that investment. Obviously they must if they keep doing it.

what bigger return? do story once, do some achievement in maps, farm it a bit and that's it. what really gives 'em return is the gemstore. what keep the player base are raids. no raids means no end game. no end game means people won't play this game and won't spend money on gemstore. people invent a lot of gold just to gear characters for raids. some evne buy gems and convert 'em to gold. casual players don't need gear. all they need are skins and some are exclusive to raiding.

From a "casuals" standpoint: The only reason im even doing raids right now is i want legendary armor for my main character, if i could obtain it in PVE through some other means id never touch raids in the first place(and thats literally why its there, to force people in PVE into raids), the entire nature of raids(no not the difficulty, the forced classes and forced roles) goes against one of the core reasons i bought this game despite my love of GW1, and i dont think they ever should have been added. FYI Vayne is correct, i spend more time in each of the zones farming them for the minis and the skins than i have ever spent doing raids, i come back to the game to do just that. i could also care less about the skins they contain(raids) even though my ultimate goal is to have all the skins i can obtain unlocked.

[zealex.9410]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

living story is so successful they forgot about other content and cut funds for the sustainers of the game like raiders and fractal players who constantly play this game everyday for hours. doesn't look successful at all.instead the living story they could make dungeons via that stories and make unique sets and weapons skins from that dungeon to force people to play together and actually think and play the game and not just do story once, 2nd time for achievements and that's it. nothing to do anymore. gameplay in story isn't fun at all. dungeons would be fun. and final conclusion of story like mordremoth, scarlet, zhaitan, balthazar etc to be raid bosses. boom, people grind this game everyday for hours and not play some story once and quit till another chapter comes. people don't go back doing story. they just do it to unlock maps and rewards without effort. there's no real progression behind living story.

And yet people keep playing. The add a new raid, and they get 10% of the people who play playing. They add a new living world, and I'm sure they get a bigger return on that investment. Obviously they must if they keep doing it.

what bigger return? do story once, do some achievement in maps, farm it a bit and that's it. what really gives 'em return is the gemstore. what keep the player base are raids. no raids means no end game. no end game means people won't play this game and won't spend money on gemstore. people invent a lot of gold just to gear characters for raids. some evne buy gems and convert 'em to gold. casual players don't need gear. all they need are skins and some are exclusive to raiding.

From a "casuals" standpoint: The only reason im even doing raids right now is i want legendary armor for my main character, if i could obtain it in PVE through some other means id never touch raids in the first place(and thats literally why its there, to force people in PVE into raids), the entire nature of raids(no not the difficulty, the forced classes and forced roles) goes against one of the core reasons i bought this game despite my love of GW1, and i dont think they ever should have been added. FYI Vayne is correct, i spend more time in each of the zones farming them for the minis and the skins than i have ever spent doing raids, i come back to the game to do just that. i could also care less about the skins they contain(raids) even though my ultimate goal is to have all the skins i can obtain unlocked.

Im pretty sure gw1 had meta comps for its endgame.

[Dante.1763]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

living story is so successful they forgot about other content and cut funds for the sustainers of the game like raiders and fractal players who constantly play this game everyday for hours. doesn't look successful at all.instead the living story they could make dungeons via that stories and make unique sets and weapons skins from that dungeon to force people to play together and actually think and play the game and not just do story once, 2nd time for achievements and that's it. nothing to do anymore. gameplay in story isn't fun at all. dungeons would be fun. and final conclusion of story like mordremoth, scarlet, zhaitan, balthazar etc to be raid bosses. boom, people grind this game everyday for hours and not play some story once and quit till another chapter comes. people don't go back doing story. they just do it to unlock maps and rewards without effort. there's no real progression behind living story.

And yet people keep playing. The add a new raid, and they get 10% of the people who play playing. They add a new living world, and I'm sure they get a bigger return on that investment. Obviously they must if they keep doing it.

what bigger return? do story once, do some achievement in maps, farm it a bit and that's it. what really gives 'em return is the gemstore. what keep the player base are raids. no raids means no end game. no end game means people won't play this game and won't spend money on gemstore. people invent a lot of gold just to gear characters for raids. some evne buy gems and convert 'em to gold. casual players don't need gear. all they need are skins and some are exclusive to raiding.

From a "casuals" standpoint: The only reason im even doing raids right now is i want legendary armor for my main character, if i could obtain it in PVE through some other means id never touch raids in the first place(and thats literally why its there, to force people in PVE into raids), the entire nature of raids(no not the difficulty, the forced classes and forced roles) goes against one of the core reasons i bought this game despite my love of GW1, and i dont think they ever should have been added. FYI Vayne is correct, i spend more time in each of the zones farming them for the minis and the skins than i have ever spent doing raids, i come back to the game to do just that. i could also care less about the skins they contain(raids) even though my ultimate goal is to have all the skins i can obtain unlocked.

Im pretty sure gw1 had meta comps for its endgame.

Sure(at least till heroes came out and you could solo most of its end game content), but thats my point, this game wasnt supposed to have that. I got tired of it in GW1, having to wait ages for a monk or a tank was irritating as hell, and that type of gameplay didnt exist in GW2 until raids got added(outside of literally not allowing classes in to dungeons, ranger and necro being those classes), i dont like that type of gameplay.

[Vayne.8563]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

living story is so successful they forgot about other content and cut funds for the sustainers of the game like raiders and fractal players who constantly play this game everyday for hours. doesn't look successful at all.instead the living story they could make dungeons via that stories and make unique sets and weapons skins from that dungeon to force people to play together and actually think and play the game and not just do story once, 2nd time for achievements and that's it. nothing to do anymore. gameplay in story isn't fun at all. dungeons would be fun. and final conclusion of story like mordremoth, scarlet, zhaitan, balthazar etc to be raid bosses. boom, people grind this game everyday for hours and not play some story once and quit till another chapter comes. people don't go back doing story. they just do it to unlock maps and rewards without effort. there's no real progression behind living story.

And yet people keep playing. The add a new raid, and they get 10% of the people who play playing. They add a new living world, and I'm sure they get a bigger return on that investment. Obviously they must if they keep doing it.

what bigger return? do story once, do some achievement in maps, farm it a bit and that's it. what really gives 'em return is the gemstore. what keep the player base are raids. no raids means no end game. no end game means people won't play this game and won't spend money on gemstore. people invent a lot of gold just to gear characters for raids. some evne buy gems and convert 'em to gold. casual players don't need gear. all they need are skins and some are exclusive to raiding.

From a "casuals" standpoint: The only reason im even doing raids right now is i want legendary armor for my main character, if i could obtain it in PVE through some other means id never touch raids in the first place(and thats literally why its there, to force people in PVE into raids), the entire nature of raids(no not the difficulty, the forced classes and forced roles) goes against one of the core reasons i bought this game despite my love of GW1, and i dont think they ever should have been added. FYI Vayne is correct, i spend more time in each of the zones farming them for the minis and the skins than i have ever spent doing raids, i come back to the game to do just that. i could also care less about the skins they contain(raids) even though my ultimate goal is to have all the skins i can obtain unlocked.

Im pretty sure gw1 had meta comps for its endgame.

It's true. But there's nothing you had to play that content to get. I mean, obby shards and ectos you could farm feathers and buy if you wanted. Or decayed Ore emblems. Tormented weapons you could buy with gold. Stand around Spamadan and buy those. Or minis or whatever. Farm and buy was a viable option in Guild Wars 1. Stuff wasn't locked behind that content. Casuals could get what they want without doing stuff they didn't enjoy. It's a win, win. Those who enjoyed DOA and did it over and over again, could continue to do it, and sell their weapons.

Anet decided not to do this is this game, thus changing the dynamic, since now I'm forced to raid if I want X. I don't prefer that, and so raids are now something I have to endure to get what I want.

Edit: My wife and I did beat DOA, each taking 3 heroes each btw, without having to find six other people to do it with. So you really can't compare the games or situations.

[zealex.9410]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Draco.9480 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

Consider u can be done with the map in 4 to 5 days. (unless theres a timegated collection)

As an explorer and collector, I'm about experiencing a map. A raid caps you out once you beat the boss until next week. But there's caps on currency that keep people from raiding all the time. A raid might keep someone busy for a couple of months, an hour or two at a time. The thing is a lot of raids are just something someone runs through once a week for the currency, they have it on farm and that's it.

Well, get this, casual people farm the new zones. Like Raids, each zone usually has a time-gated currency. Want the new back pack skin, you have to have 700 of the currency of the current zone plus do the collections

All any MMO ever is is a collection of stuff to do to get the stuff you want. In a lot of games people are forced to raid to get the stuff they want, but here that's not true. That's why I don't play most games and I do play this one. I spend more time in new zones that four days, and that's every new zone that's come out. It's a new place to explore, a new place to farm, there are achievements to get, collections to finish.

I tend not to use Dulfy except as a last resort. If you're figuring out stuff on your own it certainly takes longer. Coming from an adventure game background, to me, that's part of the game. Those who don't see achievements are part of the game, or don't run to dulfy to look everything up, are going to say that raiding is better or keeps you busy longer, because they like that kind of content. But if you're in that 10% that raid, that means 90% of the population aren't doing that. How many people are in those new zones and what percentage of the population spends more than 4 days in them? Does anyone know?

I bet Anet does.

Anet does what it does because it gets people back to the game and playing. They wouldn't keep doing it if it doesn't work. If a new raid got more people back to the game and playing they'd come out more often. It's just logic.

Well anet thought they knew what they doing during the esports period. They can be wrong.

And when i said 4 days i meant fir collections, story, experience, exploration. Everything.

Anet tried to get esports off the ground. They've been doing Living Story for a very very long time. If it wasn't working, like esports, it would have stopped. They're not wrong because the game is successful. I guarantee you 100% it's not successful because of raids.

living story is so successful they forgot about other content and cut funds for the sustainers of the game like raiders and fractal players who constantly play this game everyday for hours. doesn't look successful at all.instead the living story they could make dungeons via that stories and make unique sets and weapons skins from that dungeon to force people to play together and actually think and play the game and not just do story once, 2nd time for achievements and that's it. nothing to do anymore. gameplay in story isn't fun at all. dungeons would be fun. and final conclusion of story like mordremoth, scarlet, zhaitan, balthazar etc to be raid bosses. boom, people grind this game everyday for hours and not play some story once and quit till another chapter comes. people don't go back doing story. they just do it to unlock maps and rewards without effort. there's no real progression behind living story.

And yet people keep playing. The add a new raid, and they get 10% of the people who play playing. They add a new living world, and I'm sure they get a bigger return on that investment. Obviously they must if they keep doing it.

what bigger return? do story once, do some achievement in maps, farm it a bit and that's it. what really gives 'em return is the gemstore. what keep the player base are raids. no raids means no end game. no end game means people won't play this game and won't spend money on gemstore. people invent a lot of gold just to gear characters for raids. some evne buy gems and convert 'em to gold. casual players don't need gear. all they need are skins and some are exclusive to raiding.

From a "casuals" standpoint: The only reason im even doing raids right now is i want legendary armor for my main character, if i could obtain it in PVE through some other means id never touch raids in the first place(and thats literally why its there, to force people in PVE into raids), the entire nature of raids(no not the difficulty, the forced classes and forced roles) goes against one of the core reasons i bought this game despite my love of GW1, and i dont think they ever should have been added. FYI Vayne is correct, i spend more time in each of the zones farming them for the minis and the skins than i have ever spent doing raids, i come back to the game to do just that. i could also care less about the skins they contain(raids) even though my ultimate goal is to have all the skins i can obtain unlocked.

Im pretty sure gw1 had meta comps for its endgame.

It's true. But there's nothing you had to play that content to get. I mean, obby shards and ectos you could farm feathers and buy if you wanted. Or decayed Ore emblems. Tormented weapons you could buy with gold. Stand around Spamadan and buy those. Or minis or whatever. Farm and buy was a viable option in Guild Wars 1. Stuff wasn't locked behind that content. Casuals could get what they want without doing stuff they didn't enjoy. It's a win, win. Those who enjoyed DOA and did it over and over again, could continue to do it, and sell their weapons.

Anet decided not to do this is this game, thus changing the dynamic, since now I'm forced to raid if I want X. I don't prefer that, and so raids are now something I have to endure to get what I want.

Edit: My wife and I did beat DOA, each taking 3 heroes each btw, without having to find six other people to do it with. So you really can't compare the games or situations.

You are forced to i suppose open the instance walk up to the boss, hit it once and afk.

Amd i was merely compairing the existance of metas and comps in both games.