New boss release rate

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sillytune.1580 said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

[Cyninja.2954]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sillytune.1580 said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

If you visit a mental asylum, yes.

You are making very wild, disturbing suggestions. None of which you have so far supported with evidence or which in any way are supported by common belief.

Even if people were as delusional as you believe they are as a whole, that still does not prove that they would engage in an activity which they do not enjoy en mass. That goes against any type of market research or function (which you too have not dis-proven or proven that it is dysfunctional).

You do realize that at face value currently (without any proof), you sound like a being trapped in your own subjective bubble while wanting to desperately be right, on a games forum, for a subject which got 1.7k not unique views.

Simple math dictates that the chances of you being delusional or arrogant enough are infinitely higher than there being a flaw in multiple areas like GW2 popularity, the general mental health of a huge group of people (actually all adults according to you) or the revenue and content model adopted by Arenanet.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Mireles Lore.5942 said:It is kinda of an interesting thing to see how far raids have dropped off in their content priority. Anet has a history of developing things then abandoning them. No amount of popularity seems to save them. As a guild leader of 13 years, I can see how there decisions are wiping out the veteran player base. Many long standing guilds I knew from Guild Wars 1 are not around anymore.

There was a time the 6-8 months following HoT that raids were the only PvE content being released. We saw 9 bosses released in that time period. Many people were lured to this content on just the idea of legendary armor even though it would come much much later. If you were a PvE community you had to become proficient in providing clears for your community or you saw the most dedicated members leave your guild and it died. We absorbed so many guilds and had a handful of commanders working hard to accommodate incoming players. It was insane, but a matter of survival that PvE guilds were able to tackle this content. Many of them did not make it as well as many people quit because they could/would not keep up with the commitment or deemed mechanically proficient enough to be taken on them.

Presently we are seeing 2-4 bosses released every 8-10 months. You can not maintain a community based on challenging end game content with such a slow release of that type of content. Now the other side of the spectrum is leaving the game because clearing the same wings with nothing new for the greater part of a year is boring. After everyone got their legendary armor, motivation to raid is even lower. Right now we got a legendary trinket we will finally get to make this year? Maybe? The gap between new people looking to get into raiding to make legendary armor and the veteran players that still regularly clear in one night on a weekly basis is getting very wide. It only stands to get wider as more and more people decide get bored, quit, and never come back. Now just the opposite is happening, we have had to return to a casual focus just to maintain activity in our communities.

As someone that is both a community leader and has completed all the raid content Anet has to offer many times. Anet really should have stuck to their guns on at-least one of these decisions. One they should have maintained the casual mentality, never made raids and displaced so many people from the game they had been casually completing for years. Or two, stuck with developing high end content in a manner that kept the player base they created introducing raids entertained.

Pretty much this. And we've been telling them, back when raids were announced, that this might happen, that it isn't possible to cater to both groups at the same time without some negative consequences.

They thought they could do that. And what some of us predicted happened, in almost the exact way we thought it will end.

When they introduced raids, they probably thought that adding one more type of content, for the players that weren't challenged enough by what was already in the game, can't hurt, and wouldn't change the game that much, beyond getting the most skilled players more engaged. Unfortunately, the content was too good, and too well marketed. It was so enticing that players that liked that type of content were willing to abandon their old communities if that was the price of being able to play it. It was also enticing enough that it pulled players that didn't really like raids or challenges (but were really interested in rewards, or followed the first group for social reasons). And then came the players that were very much interested, but weren't really good enough for it. And of course, the rest of the players felt left behind (because in reality they were left behind).

The first group had fun with the content, but not all of them were able to rebuild social connections up to the level they had before (and had much more shallower ties to the new guilds/groups/communities they were now in). That was even worse for the second group. The third group got either angry or disheartened very quick, because they could feel that new content to b just beyond their grasp. And the last group suddenly felt that it may not be the same game they came to in the first place (in addition to having to deal with the shattering of the old communities they were in), and many felt that they are now only second-class citizens in it. The months of only raid releases, and content drought for everyone else, didn't help there.

On the other hand, many of the raiders didn't realize, that Anet never intended for the focus of the game to shift towards raids so much. Devs were never planning to put as much resources for raid development as the people enamored with it expected. When it didn't happen, many ended up being disappointed.

So, basically, introducing raids caused a real mess in the old, mostly casual community, heavily damaging it and making many players quit. At the same time it didn't really bring all that many new players to the game - nor did it bring back many of the old ones. And even for some of those that did came, it was only temporary.

By that time they've probably realized the situation, and decided they do have to keep their old casual players in the game somehow. At that point however raids were strongly entrenched in the game, and it wasn't possible to just remove (or fully abandon) them. It was not possible to just turn back time and go to the game before.

And thus, we're where we are now. With both sides disappointed.

[Vinceman.4572]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

The F you are smoking? Gimme sumtin.I don't know anybody with imaginary friends and believes in fairy tails and I'm an adult since 18 years now. Where do you find such individuals?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

the fairy tales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

imaginary friends

So, what have religion and god to do with GW2? It's obvious that the average GW2 player doesn't see this game as a religion and setting it up as an integral part of their lives or even believe in a world which contains dragons and where you can't die.Fundamental religious people are a different thing but they are clearly not the majority, precisely they are a little nuance in that whole picture and play no role until the next terror attack and everybody's freaking out and going crazy about the change of the world. The more realistic approach is the old man/woman going to church on sundays living an usual life with usual moral standards. That's not delusional by definition.

[Feanor.2358]

@Astralporing.1957 said:And thus, we're where we are now. With both sides disappointed.

Are they, though? Or are some vocal minorities on both sides disappointed, while the majorities are having fun playing the game?

[zealex.9410]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Fact is, even if a small percentage plays raids, it shouldn't take 9 months to release a tiny raid wing with 3 bosses. It's just laughable. It's not that the rest of the content is much. There are zero dungeons and there are 1-2 fractals per year...

Deepstone took 8 months ;-;It actually took far less. By the moment they released they were already far into working on the next one. It's just that they don't want to release too soon, because the players might expect the

next

one to be done with the same speed as well. Better to keep to the schedule.But yeah, deepstone took them about 5 months if i remember correctly, and a single raid wing is much more work compared to that.

I really dont care how fast it was done iternally. It still took 8 months to come out. The next one might be done by next month but we wont see it for the next 5 to 6 months.

Much like the raid is practically done and VO will take them another month or 2.

[yann.1946]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sillytune.1580 said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

We'll it's not a delusion because their is no proof God doesn't exist.Believing something while their is no proof is not delusional. (otherwise you would consider the math community delusional)

[Amaranthe.3578]

@yann.1946 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sillytune.1580 said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

We'll it's not a delusion because their is no proof God doesn't exist.Believing something while their is no proof is not delusional. (otherwise you would consider the math community delusional)

theres no proof faeries arent realguess thats not a delusion too huh

[yann.1946]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sillytune.1580 said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

We'll it's not a delusion because their is no proof God doesn't exist.Believing something while their is no proof is not delusional. (otherwise you would consider the math community delusional)

theres no proof faeries arent realguess thats not a delusion too huh

Indeed. It might sound unbelievable (which I agree on) but it is not a delusion.

It honestly says a lot about you're character that you rather belittle people for not sharing you're opinion.

[yann.1946]

On the other hand believing that the world is flat is a delusion because their is evidence to proof the contrary.

[RazielSpecter.6295]

Are we still talking about Raid?

[Sephylon.4938]

Yup, next raid is us fighting THE grawl god and his army of faries in the plains of imagination

[Etheri.5406]

@yann.1946 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Sillytune.1580" said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

We'll it's not a delusion because their is no proof God doesn't exist.Believing something while their is no proof is not delusional. (otherwise you would consider the math community delusional)

I see you struggle with the difference between conceptual thinking and religion. Math isn't "true" or "false" nor a description of reality - something which religion does claim to be.

Math uses base rules which cannot be proven or disproven (axioms), and looks at which things can be proven IFF these axioms are assumed true. These proven rules can then be used in any systems for which the axioms can be assumed / proven / approached as true.

There are several different "maths" which use different "axioms" (base rules, starting conditions). And from these, they arrive at different conclusions. These are used to approach or model different real life situations. There is no such thing as an "absolute" truth in math or logic. There is only "in... system, XXX is true" or even "if ... is true, then ... is also true".

Math doesn't make statements which aren't proven other than the axioms. Everything else in a logical system is proven from said axioms. Also funnily enough, math also proved that a complete yet consistent system of axioms cannot exist. And at no point are axioms chosen to represent "reality". They're conceptual.

You should stick to religion. Altho I assume i'll get a reply along the lines of "you can't prove math exists so it doesn't !!!!!".

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Sillytune.1580" said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

We'll it's not a delusion because their is no proof God doesn't exist.Believing something while their is no proof is not delusional. (otherwise you would consider the math community delusional)

I see you struggle with the difference between conceptual thinking and religion. Math isn't "true" or "false" nor a description of reality - something which religion does claim to be.

Math uses base rules which cannot be proven or disproven (axioms), and looks at which things can be proven IFF these axioms are assumed true. These proven rules can then be used in any systems for which the axioms can be assumed / proven / approached as true.

There are several different "maths" which use different "axioms" (base rules, starting conditions). And from these, they arrive at different conclusions. These are used to approach or model different real life situations. There is no such thing as an "absolute" truth in math or logic. There is only "in... system, XXX is true".

Math doesn't make statements which aren't proven other than the axioms. Everything else in a logical system is proven from said axioms. Also funnily enough, math also proved that a complete yet consistent system of axioms cannot exist. And at no point are axioms chosen to represent "reality". They're conceptual.

You should stick to religion. Altho I assume i'll get a reply along the lines of "you can't prove math exists so it doesn't !!!!!".

Dude you are flying waaaay higher than he could ever possibly comprehend.

[Etheri.5406]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Sillytune.1580" said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

We'll it's not a delusion because their is no proof God doesn't exist.Believing something while their is no proof is not delusional. (otherwise you would consider the math community delusional)

I see you struggle with the difference between conceptual thinking and religion. Math isn't "true" or "false" nor a description of reality - something which religion does claim to be.

Math uses base rules which cannot be proven or disproven (axioms), and looks at which things can be proven IFF these axioms are assumed true. These proven rules can then be used in any systems for which the axioms can be assumed / proven / approached as true.

There are several different "maths" which use different "axioms" (base rules, starting conditions). And from these, they arrive at different conclusions. These are used to approach or model different real life situations. There is no such thing as an "absolute" truth in math or logic. There is only "in... system, XXX is true".

Math doesn't make statements which aren't proven other than the axioms. Everything else in a logical system is proven from said axioms. Also funnily enough, math also proved that a complete yet consistent system of axioms cannot exist. And at no point are axioms chosen to represent "reality". They're conceptual.

You should stick to religion. Altho I assume i'll get a reply along the lines of "you can't prove math exists so it doesn't !!!!!".

Dude you are flying waaaay higher than he could ever possibly comprehend.

That's true even if you discuss any GW2 topics. You can try to have a reasonable conversation about balance or game design, but it'll go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above their heads all the same. So should anet simplify GW2 design because players lack understanding of the game? I don't think so.

But clearly most of the players disagree. Anet pls content much too hard. I almost ragequit on HoT release because pocket raptors bit me. I'm a pact commander, I can't die to a horde of mini raptors that breaks my immersion. It's anet's task to teach players, and it's never players responsibility to learn :trollface:

[yann.1946]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Sillytune.1580" said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

We'll it's not a delusion because their is no proof God doesn't exist.Believing something while their is no proof is not delusional. (otherwise you would consider the math community delusional)

I see you struggle with the difference between conceptual thinking and religion. Math isn't "true" or "false" nor a description of reality - something which religion does claim to be.

Math uses base rules which cannot be proven or disproven (axioms), and looks at which things can be proven IFF these axioms are assumed true. These proven rules can then be used in any systems for which the axioms can be assumed / proven / approached as true.

There are several different "maths" which use different "axioms" (base rules, starting conditions). And from these, they arrive at different conclusions. These are used to approach or model different real life situations. There is no such thing as an "absolute" truth in math or logic. There is only "in... system, XXX is true" or even "if ... is true, then ... is also true".

Math doesn't make statements which aren't proven other than the axioms. Everything else in a logical system is proven from said axioms. Also funnily enough, math also proved that a complete yet consistent system of axioms cannot exist. And at no point are axioms chosen to represent "reality". They're conceptual.

You should stick to religion. Altho I assume i'll get a reply along the lines of "you can't prove math exists so it doesn't !!!!!".

Thank you for for mentioning goebbels incompleteness theorem. And assuming about my background :)

My point which flew over everyone's head apperently is that a delusion is something people believe while their is evidence to the contrary.

The believe or disbelief in God at this point are both still consistent with the observed reality as their is no conclusive proof in either direction.

Like zorn's lemma is consistent with ZF but it's negation also.

The reason I brought math as an example is also because it starts with axioms which you can't proof but which you assume to be true till you stumble upon a contradiction. It is not delusional to believe ZFC is true because we haven't found a contradiction yet.

The claim that faith tries to tell how the world works while math doesn't is just quite a bad way to look at faith. It just claims we believe this are the axioms of the spiritual.

[Etheri.5406]

@yann.1946 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Sillytune.1580" said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

We'll it's not a delusion because their is no proof God doesn't exist.Believing something while their is no proof is not delusional. (otherwise you would consider the math community delusional)

I see you struggle with the difference between conceptual thinking and religion. Math isn't "true" or "false" nor a description of reality - something which religion does claim to be.

Math uses base rules which cannot be proven or disproven (axioms), and looks at which things can be proven IFF these axioms are assumed true. These proven rules can then be used in any systems for which the axioms can be assumed / proven / approached as true.

There are several different "maths" which use different "axioms" (base rules, starting conditions). And from these, they arrive at different conclusions. These are used to approach or model different real life situations. There is no such thing as an "absolute" truth in math or logic. There is only "in... system, XXX is true" or even "if ... is true, then ... is also true".

Math doesn't make statements which aren't proven other than the axioms. Everything else in a logical system is proven from said axioms. Also funnily enough, math also proved that a complete yet consistent system of axioms cannot exist. And at no point are axioms chosen to represent "reality". They're conceptual.

You should stick to religion. Altho I assume i'll get a reply along the lines of "you can't prove math exists so it doesn't !!!!!".

Thank you for for mentioning gobels incompleteness theorem. And assuming about my background :)

My point which flew over everyone's head apperently is that a delusion is something people believe while their is evidence to the contrary.

The believe or disbelief in God at this point are both still consistent with the observed reality as their is no conclusive proof in either direction.

Like zorn's lemma is consistent with ZF but it's negation also.

The reason I brought math as an example is also because it starts with axioms which you can't proof but which you assume to be true till you stumble upon a contradiction. It is not delusional to believe ZFC is true because we haven't found a contradiction yet.

The claim that faith tries to tell how the world works while math doesn't is just quite a bad way to look at faith. It just claims we believe this are the axioms of the spiritual.

You don't get it, still. ZF nor ZFC are an approximation of reality. The contradictions are NOT CONTRADICTIONS WITH REALITY. They are contradictions with ITSELF.Both ZF and ZFC are conceptual; and will always remain such. ZF is just paradoxical which ZFC isn't (as far as we know). I don't "believe in ZFC", I just consider it to be a concept which doesn't contradict itself. ZF didn't contradict with reality, it contradicts with itself. At NO POINT does math check if ZFC contradicts REALITY. Because that is NOT math, it's life sciences / physics.

I see newtonian mechanics as an approximation of (a subset of) reality, and quantum mechanics as an improved approximation of said reality. You can state newtonian mechanics can't be proven, and that i'd agree with. You can state unconditionally believing in newtonian mechanics without proof is delusional, and frankly I'd agree. But ZFC doesn't claim or attempt to approximate or be consistent with reality, only with itself (which it cannot prove iff it is due to godel).

Believing ZFC can't be paradoxical without proof is delusional. Believing ZFC is most likely not paradoxical is fair. Believing god "can" be real is fair. Believing god can't be real without proof is delusional. Believing god must be real without proof is just as delusional. So I agree with the statement that there is no proof in either direction for or against god.

I disagreed with the concept that math falls under the same description. At no point does math make ANY claims about reality. It makes conceptual claims within a set of axioms and us discussing the existance of inconsistent axiomatic sets doesn't change the fact that at no point ANY claims are made regarding reality. These questions are either physics or philosophy, but not math.

So again; I can agree with your point you tried to make. I completely disagree with how you compared it to math.

[yann.1946]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Sillytune.1580" said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

We'll it's not a delusion because their is no proof God doesn't exist.Believing something while their is no proof is not delusional. (otherwise you would consider the math community delusional)

I see you struggle with the difference between conceptual thinking and religion. Math isn't "true" or "false" nor a description of reality - something which religion does claim to be.

Math uses base rules which cannot be proven or disproven (axioms), and looks at which things can be proven IFF these axioms are assumed true. These proven rules can then be used in any systems for which the axioms can be assumed / proven / approached as true.

There are several different "maths" which use different "axioms" (base rules, starting conditions). And from these, they arrive at different conclusions. These are used to approach or model different real life situations. There is no such thing as an "absolute" truth in math or logic. There is only "in... system, XXX is true" or even "if ... is true, then ... is also true".

Math doesn't make statements which aren't proven other than the axioms. Everything else in a logical system is proven from said axioms. Also funnily enough, math also proved that a complete yet consistent system of axioms cannot exist. And at no point are axioms chosen to represent "reality". They're conceptual.

You should stick to religion. Altho I assume i'll get a reply along the lines of "you can't prove math exists so it doesn't !!!!!".

Thank you for for mentioning gobels incompleteness theorem. And assuming about my background :)

My point which flew over everyone's head apperently is that a delusion is something people believe while their is evidence to the contrary.

The believe or disbelief in God at this point are both still consistent with the observed reality as their is no conclusive proof in either direction.

Like zorn's lemma is consistent with ZF but it's negation also.

The reason I brought math as an example is also because it starts with axioms which you can't proof but which you assume to be true till you stumble upon a contradiction. It is not delusional to believe ZFC is true because we haven't found a contradiction yet.

The claim that faith tries to tell how the world works while math doesn't is just quite a bad way to look at faith. It just claims we believe this are the axioms of the spiritual.

You don't get it, still. ZF nor ZFC are an approximation of reality. The contradictions are NOT CONTRADICTIONS WITH REALITY. They are contradictions with ITSELF.Both ZF and ZFC are conceptual; and will always remain such. ZF is just paradoxical which ZFC isn't (as far as we know). I don't "believe in ZFC", I just consider it to be a concept which doesn't contradict itself. ZF didn't contradict with reality, it contradicts with itself. At NO POINT does math check if ZFC contradicts REALITY. Because that is NOT math, it's life sciences / physics.

I see newtonian mechanics as an approximation of (a subset of) reality, and quantum mechanics as an improved approximation of said reality. You can state newtonian mechanics can't be proven, and that i'd agree with. You can state unconditionally believing in newtonian mechanics without proof is delusional, and frankly I'd agree. But ZFC doesn't claim or attempt to approximate or be consistent with reality, only with itself (which it cannot prove iff it is due to godel).

Believing ZFC

can't

be paradoxical without proof is delusional. Believing ZFC is most likely not paradoxical is fair. Believing god "can" be real is fair. Believing god can't be real without proof is delusional. Believing god must be real without proof is just as delusional. So I agree with the statement that there is no proof in either direction for or against god.

I disagreed with the concept that math falls under the same description. At no point does math make ANY claims about reality. It makes conceptual claims within a set of axioms and us discussing the existance of inconsistent axiomatic sets doesn't change the fact that at no point ANY claims are made regarding reality. These questions are either physics or philosophy, but not math.

So again; I can agree with your point you tried to make. I completely disagree with how you compared it to math.

I see where you're coming from.But the definition of delusional is strongly believing in something while their is strong prove that it is false. Thus believing without prove in either side is per definition not delusional.

I actually used math because most people don't really know the details of what math actually is. So most people just consider the axioms true instead of where proving things under these assumptions.Which is something most engineers etc do anyway. For most people a math theorem is just true or false (how many people say Pythagoras theorem is true in ZFC).

P. S. ZF is as consistent as ZFC. You're probably thinking about the set of all sets who don't posses themself as counterexampple but it doesn't "exist" in ZF

[Etheri.5406]

@yann.1946 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Sillytune.1580" said:I honestly will never understand the zealot with which the gw2 forum/reddit community defends anet, and guild wars 2.

It's a quite interesting topic on how majority of vocal players regarding these subjects are perfectly

fine

with playing the game that simply put: --> doesn't deliver.

Honestly, I'd find it weird if it weren't like that. If the game doesn't deliver, I don't play it. Why would I waste my time trying to convince devs to make the game to my liking? Not only that's highly unrealistic, the market is full of games. Chances are, if I'm not finding what I seek in one, I can find it in another.

Because you have already invested time in the game and you cannot admit to yourself it doesn't deliver

No, I don't think that's it. My hundreds of hours in D3 meant nothing when the game ceased to be fun for me and I simply quit. I currently spend time in GW2 because I like to.

Ofc you dont think thats it.Doesnt change the fact thats its the case fot most people.

Again, proof.

You are literally arguing that the market does not work or is severely flawed. Having to chose between market and your subjective opinion, take a guess as to how many people will take your side?

You really want proof the average person does not make desicions based on rational?Just how dim are you?

That's a strawman, I never said people always make rational decisions, I said an entire player base or group will gravitate towards a subjective result on a matter of enjoyment.

Okay let's try this differently:

What is more likely:

That an entire player base of a successful MMO is delusional and keeps playing a game they do not enjoy. Or even a part of that player base which is more invested as a whole acts so.

Or:

You being highly biased and assumptive.

Careful with the personals please, you are the one making wild claims unwilling to support them trapped in your own subjective bubble (see, I can make assumptions to).

I think its fair to say the vast majority of people are completely delusional.

Yeah... let me put it this way - if you're driving on a freeway and despite your expectations you see lots of people driving in the wrong direction in your lane, chances are it's not their fault, it's yours.

Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

We'll it's not a delusion because their is no proof God doesn't exist.Believing something while their is no proof is not delusional. (otherwise you would consider the math community delusional)

I see you struggle with the difference between conceptual thinking and religion. Math isn't "true" or "false" nor a description of reality - something which religion does claim to be.

Math uses base rules which cannot be proven or disproven (axioms), and looks at which things can be proven IFF these axioms are assumed true. These proven rules can then be used in any systems for which the axioms can be assumed / proven / approached as true.

There are several different "maths" which use different "axioms" (base rules, starting conditions). And from these, they arrive at different conclusions. These are used to approach or model different real life situations. There is no such thing as an "absolute" truth in math or logic. There is only "in... system, XXX is true" or even "if ... is true, then ... is also true".

Math doesn't make statements which aren't proven other than the axioms. Everything else in a logical system is proven from said axioms. Also funnily enough, math also proved that a complete yet consistent system of axioms cannot exist. And at no point are axioms chosen to represent "reality". They're conceptual.

You should stick to religion. Altho I assume i'll get a reply along the lines of "you can't prove math exists so it doesn't !!!!!".

Thank you for for mentioning gobels incompleteness theorem. And assuming about my background :)

My point which flew over everyone's head apperently is that a delusion is something people believe while their is evidence to the contrary.

The believe or disbelief in God at this point are both still consistent with the observed reality as their is no conclusive proof in either direction.

Like zorn's lemma is consistent with ZF but it's negation also.

The reason I brought math as an example is also because it starts with axioms which you can't proof but which you assume to be true till you stumble upon a contradiction. It is not delusional to believe ZFC is true because we haven't found a contradiction yet.

The claim that faith tries to tell how the world works while math doesn't is just quite a bad way to look at faith. It just claims we believe this are the axioms of the spiritual.

You don't get it, still. ZF nor ZFC are an approximation of reality. The contradictions are NOT CONTRADICTIONS WITH REALITY. They are contradictions with ITSELF.Both ZF and ZFC are conceptual; and will always remain such. ZF is just paradoxical which ZFC isn't (as far as we know). I don't "believe in ZFC", I just consider it to be a concept which doesn't contradict itself. ZF didn't contradict with reality, it contradicts with itself. At NO POINT does math check if ZFC contradicts REALITY. Because that is NOT math, it's life sciences / physics.

I see newtonian mechanics as an approximation of (a subset of) reality, and quantum mechanics as an improved approximation of said reality. You can state newtonian mechanics can't be proven, and that i'd agree with. You can state unconditionally believing in newtonian mechanics without proof is delusional, and frankly I'd agree. But ZFC doesn't claim or attempt to approximate or be consistent with reality, only with itself (which it cannot prove iff it is due to godel).

Believing ZFC

can't

be paradoxical without proof is delusional. Believing ZFC is most likely not paradoxical is fair. Believing god "can" be real is fair. Believing god can't be real without proof is delusional. Believing god must be real without proof is just as delusional. So I agree with the statement that there is no proof in either direction for or against god.

I disagreed with the concept that math falls under the same description. At no point does math make ANY claims about reality. It makes conceptual claims within a set of axioms and us discussing the existance of inconsistent axiomatic sets doesn't change the fact that at no point ANY claims are made regarding reality. These questions are either physics or philosophy, but not math.

So again; I can agree with your point you tried to make. I completely disagree with how you compared it to math.

I see where you're coming from.But the definition of delusional is strongly believing in something while their is strong prove that it is false. Thus believing without prove in either side is per definition not delusional.

I actually used math because most people don't really know the details of what math actually is. So most people just consider the axioms true instead of where proving things under these assumptions.Which is something most engineers etc do anyway. For most people a math theorem is just true or false (how many people say Pythagoras theorem is true in ZFC).

P. S. ZF is as consistent as ZFC. You're probably thinking about the set of all sets who don't posses themself as counterexampple but it doesn't "exist" in ZF

I don't agree with arguing based on how people who don't grasp what they're on about think. I don't think that makes for good arguments, good results or consistency.

Obviously in the real world people use pythagoras when it applies out of practicality. Yet I think most engineers with sufficient background in math understand that it's a generalization of more general statements (i.e. vector products). I'm also pretty sure most engineers realise pythagoras doesn't "fully" apply. Measurements are never real numbers. A perfect 90° angle doesn't exist in "reality" just like a "straight line" doesn't exist in reality. They're concepts which approximate reality which we use because they're PRACTICAL, not because they're real.

Related to ZF being paradoxical or not, I'm not certain. It's been more than half a decade since i've had these classes and i've not exactly needed it (outside of internet debates? ;p) since. I thought ZFC was the follower of ZF which should resolve ZF's issues with some paradoxes within ZF. It's entirely possible ZF was just unable to prove or disprove these paradoxes. I frankly don't remember.

We derailed the thread, even tho this discussion was more fruitful than most discussions i've seen on the forum. Time for me to nope out, go home and play the game. Thanks!

[KGS.9842]

@yann.1946 said:

The believe or disbelief in God at this point are both still consistent with the observed reality as their is no conclusive proof in either direction.

I don't think so, the belief in God has internal contradictions that make it pretty inconsistent with observed reality. The idea of God itself is of something that is so alien to reality that none of its laws apply to it. And the evidence for that is the numerous theological disputes and schisms that take place in numerous religions.

[yann.1946]

@KGS.9842 said:

@yann.1946 said:

The believe or disbelief in God at this point are both still consistent with the observed reality as their is no conclusive proof in either direction.

I don't think so, the belief in God has internal contradictions that make it pretty inconsistent with observed reality. The idea of God itself is of something that is so alien to reality that none of its laws apply to it. And the evidence for that is the numerous theological disputes and schisms that take place in numerous religions.

We'll the theological disputes are more proof that different interpretations contradict each other. And an omnipotent god also leads to contradictions. (very few God ideas actually have a God on which the laws of reality don't apply tho)

[thrag.9740]

Guys I promise you, if you want to debate god, all your versions of the arguments can be stated much more fully and eloquently by the popular philosophers on youtube.

As for the real thread

@Amaranthe.3578 said:If somones main attraction is instanced group pve content apperently a-net massage to them is this is not the place for you.

That is correct, partially. Its also true if the only thing you like is pvp, wvw, or even open world pve. GW2 has always been a game which incentives you to play a little bit of everything rather than investing all your time into a single activity. The first match of pvp each day is the most rewarding due to dailies, the first hour of wvw is (debatable) the most rewarding, the first 10 mins on a living story map each day are the most rewarding, etc.

As for content pacing, yeah of course we would all love more content. I personally don't complain about it because if I am bored, I have a huge library of backlogged steam games to play through due to the summer sales. Next game I want to play: Transistor. A major source of frustration for players is expecting gw2 to be the only game they play.

[Turin.6921]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:Let me put it this way, the vast majority of human adults have imaginary friends and literally believe in fairy tailsIf thats not delusion I dont know what is

Just because people are delusional about the nature of the Divine it does not make them delusional on every other subject in their lives.

It is possible to be delusional on one topic and actually play a game cause you actually enjoy playing it.

[DutchRiders.2871]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:Is there a reason you're saying NO to balancing rewards?

He doesn't say "NO" to balancing rewards, he is just stating the fact that there are enough alternatives played constantly. And even the other parts in this game where we find lesser rewards are still active and not dead per se.

So unless something is fully "dead" it's fine right.Unless something is entirely broken, why improve it?

There's nothing wrong at all! Doesn't harm replayability! Everything is great!

You know, having vastly inbalanced classes doesn't stop these classes from being played. So clearly, no reason to balance classes right? Even when they weren't balanced for PvE at all; each class still saw play. Sure, never at the high end or for people that cared about balance but that clearly doesn't matter ;)

Dude, I feel so sorry for you but we were on rewards not on classes. While this game needs a way better balance in terms of classes/specs (and almost all the active people in the forums support that opinion - including me) the reward balance isn't that big of a problem.

I think when you state that balancing rewards is not a problem, when veterans are ditching the game (we have everything) cause no sense of progression. Well ....you might be a bit disconnected with the community.

[Xantaria.8726]

@DutchRiders.2871 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:Is there a reason you're saying NO to balancing rewards?

He doesn't say "NO" to balancing rewards, he is just stating the fact that there are enough alternatives played constantly. And even the other parts in this game where we find lesser rewards are still active and not dead per se.

So unless something is fully "dead" it's fine right.Unless something is entirely broken, why improve it?

There's nothing wrong at all! Doesn't harm replayability! Everything is great!

You know, having vastly inbalanced classes doesn't stop these classes from being played. So clearly, no reason to balance classes right? Even when they weren't balanced for PvE at all; each class still saw play. Sure, never at the high end or for people that cared about balance but that clearly doesn't matter ;)

Dude, I feel so sorry for you but we were on rewards not on classes. While this game needs a way better balance in terms of classes/specs (and almost all the active people in the forums support that opinion - including me) the reward balance isn't that big of a problem.

I think when you state that balancing rewards is not a problem, when veterans are ditching the game (we have everything) cause no sense of progression. Well ....you might be a bit disconnected with the community.

That is rather a problem of sinks then a problem of rewards i believe. Rewards are not perfect regarding for examble each world boss, yet they are not one of the major problem of the game. Many veterans have everything cause they, well played for years. Of course they will at one point have everything they need (though i doubt that anyone has everything that can be get in the game).