New boss release rate

[thrag.9740]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:no casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve communityFunny thing, the community was doing just fine before raids were introduced.

Ehhh that's questionable. Players complained about dungeon elitism just as much as they do raid elitism today. Additionally, new content basically wasn't a thing. The number of in game dungeons has never changed (a single time, 1 was removed and replaced, and then of course ascalon was reworked), and if you think kc is buggy, you would be shocked by dungeons. Meta strategies literally evolved around well known bugs and avoiding them (for example everyone knew mag would bug in cof, so the meta was 1 person solos and 4 ppl wait as far away at the starting wp as possible).

In fact, I would argue the community was in a poor state. Many players complained that Anet never gave a plug to Teapot's elitist raiding tournament a few months ago, but I think people are forgetting that DnT use to run speed running dungeon tournaments that Anet never advertised either, and the final tournament DnT tried to host, they couldn't even get enough groups to sign up for it. The community wasn't just dying back then, it was on full blown life support.

[Astralporing.1957]

Hardcore part of the community, maybe. PvE community as a whole was perfectly fine.

@"Amaranthe.3578" said:There was no raiding community before raids...heckYou didn't say "raid community" or "instanced community". You said "PvE community" and that one had no problem.

[Tyson.5160]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:What Im saying goes past beyond that my friend, its not that instanced content isnt the primary focus of the game but the pace of new contrnt is so slow it might as well not be there at all.

Everyone of us who is raiding has made this claim in the past. If you take a look at the size of Anet and all the stuff they are catering to you'll realize very fast that they are not able to deliver more or faster. I'd also like to have a new fractal every two months and 3 raid wings per year but sadly that's unrealistic. Remember the last releases of the Living Story? Both patches came later than promised and in terms of Domain of Kourna it is kind of obvious that the map or at least the meta isn't like it was supposed to be at first. If we follow the release pattern precisely the next LS should be shipped out with the end of the Festival of the Four Winds. Not going to happen in the slightest.

If they cant deliver a raid wing a fractal every 6 month something is really weird.

You work in the game industry?

[Malediktus.9250]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.I believe we can agree that Anet is always delivering too slow and too little too late. And that applies regardless of the parts of the game you enjoy. Open world content, story, dungeons/fractals/raids, guild missions, achievements, pvp, wvw etc.And people on reddit always treat Anet as a small indie company. We cant do this - we cant have that - because it is too much work. So of course Anet can lean back and just continue their glacial slow speeds of everything - and still most of the time release something with a lot of flaws.Anet is a company with like 80mil of revenue per year and should not be treated as such. Saying something is too much work is most of the time not acceptable for such a large company.

Are you sure anet is making that much money? The attitude and a 5-man fractal/raid team screams tiny indie thing to me.

Ncsoft is releasing quarterly earning reportshttp://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspxjust slightly annoying that they are in KWN instead of USD

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Astralporing.1957 said:Hardcore part of the community, maybe. PvE community as a whole was perfectly fine.

@"Amaranthe.3578" said:There was no raiding community before raids...heckYou didn't say "raid community" or "instanced community". You said "PvE community" and that one had no problem.

You had no PvE community

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:What Im saying goes past beyond that my friend, its not that instanced content isnt the primary focus of the game but the pace of new contrnt is so slow it might as well not be there at all.

Everyone of us who is raiding has made this claim in the past. If you take a look at the size of Anet and all the stuff they are catering to you'll realize very fast that they are not able to deliver more or faster. I'd also like to have a new fractal every two months and 3 raid wings per year but sadly that's unrealistic. Remember the last releases of the Living Story? Both patches came later than promised and in terms of Domain of Kourna it is kind of obvious that the map or at least the meta isn't like it was supposed to be at first. If we follow the release pattern precisely the next LS should be shipped out with the end of the Festival of the Four Winds. Not going to happen in the slightest.

If they cant deliver a raid wing a fractal every 6 month something is really weird.

You work in the game industry?

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:What Im saying goes past beyond that my friend, its not that instanced content isnt the primary focus of the game but the pace of new contrnt is so slow it might as well not be there at all.

Everyone of us who is raiding has made this claim in the past. If you take a look at the size of Anet and all the stuff they are catering to you'll realize very fast that they are not able to deliver more or faster. I'd also like to have a new fractal every two months and 3 raid wings per year but sadly that's unrealistic. Remember the last releases of the Living Story? Both patches came later than promised and in terms of Domain of Kourna it is kind of obvious that the map or at least the meta isn't like it was supposed to be at first. If we follow the release pattern precisely the next LS should be shipped out with the end of the Festival of the Four Winds. Not going to happen in the slightest.

If they cant deliver a raid wing a fractal every 6 month something is really weird.

You work in the game industry?

Just compairing it to other games.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

Hardcore

part of the community, maybe. PvE community as a whole was perfectly fine.

@Amaranthe.3578 said:There was no raiding community before raids...heckYou didn't say "raid community" or "instanced community". You said "PvE community" and that one had no problem.

You had no PvE community

LoL, that's a good one.

@Amaranthe.3578 said:Just compairing it to other games.Let me guess, the raid-focused ones? Or just to Blizzard?

[Tyson.5160]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:What Im saying goes past beyond that my friend, its not that instanced content isnt the primary focus of the game but the pace of new contrnt is so slow it might as well not be there at all.

Everyone of us who is raiding has made this claim in the past. If you take a look at the size of Anet and all the stuff they are catering to you'll realize very fast that they are not able to deliver more or faster. I'd also like to have a new fractal every two months and 3 raid wings per year but sadly that's unrealistic. Remember the last releases of the Living Story? Both patches came later than promised and in terms of Domain of Kourna it is kind of obvious that the map or at least the meta isn't like it was supposed to be at first. If we follow the release pattern precisely the next LS should be shipped out with the end of the Festival of the Four Winds. Not going to happen in the slightest.

If they cant deliver a raid wing a fractal every 6 month something is really weird.

You work in the game industry?

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:What Im saying goes past beyond that my friend, its not that instanced content isnt the primary focus of the game but the pace of new contrnt is so slow it might as well not be there at all.

Everyone of us who is raiding has made this claim in the past. If you take a look at the size of Anet and all the stuff they are catering to you'll realize very fast that they are not able to deliver more or faster. I'd also like to have a new fractal every two months and 3 raid wings per year but sadly that's unrealistic. Remember the last releases of the Living Story? Both patches came later than promised and in terms of Domain of Kourna it is kind of obvious that the map or at least the meta isn't like it was supposed to be at first. If we follow the release pattern precisely the next LS should be shipped out with the end of the Festival of the Four Winds. Not going to happen in the slightest.

If they cant deliver a raid wing a fractal every 6 month something is really weird.

You work in the game industry?

Just compairing it to other games.

Different games with different focus.

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:What Im saying goes past beyond that my friend, its not that instanced content isnt the primary focus of the game but the pace of new contrnt is so slow it might as well not be there at all.

Everyone of us who is raiding has made this claim in the past. If you take a look at the size of Anet and all the stuff they are catering to you'll realize very fast that they are not able to deliver more or faster. I'd also like to have a new fractal every two months and 3 raid wings per year but sadly that's unrealistic. Remember the last releases of the Living Story? Both patches came later than promised and in terms of Domain of Kourna it is kind of obvious that the map or at least the meta isn't like it was supposed to be at first. If we follow the release pattern precisely the next LS should be shipped out with the end of the Festival of the Four Winds. Not going to happen in the slightest.

If they cant deliver a raid wing a fractal every 6 month something is really weird.

You work in the game industry?

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:What Im saying goes past beyond that my friend, its not that instanced content isnt the primary focus of the game but the pace of new contrnt is so slow it might as well not be there at all.

Everyone of us who is raiding has made this claim in the past. If you take a look at the size of Anet and all the stuff they are catering to you'll realize very fast that they are not able to deliver more or faster. I'd also like to have a new fractal every two months and 3 raid wings per year but sadly that's unrealistic. Remember the last releases of the Living Story? Both patches came later than promised and in terms of Domain of Kourna it is kind of obvious that the map or at least the meta isn't like it was supposed to be at first. If we follow the release pattern precisely the next LS should be shipped out with the end of the Festival of the Four Winds. Not going to happen in the slightest.

If they cant deliver a raid wing a fractal every 6 month something is really weird.

You work in the game industry?

Just compairing it to other games.

Different games with different focus.

Like I said earlier this is way beyond that.

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

Hardcore

part of the community, maybe. PvE community as a whole was perfectly fine.

@Amaranthe.3578 said:There was no raiding community before raids...heckYou didn't say "raid community" or "instanced community". You said "PvE community" and that one had no problem.

You had no PvE community

LoL, that's a good one.

@Amaranthe.3578 said:Just compairing it to other games.Let me guess, the raid-focused ones? Or just to Blizzard?

Seems like you insist on being dim.

[Vayne.8563]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

[Vayne.8563]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

[Vayne.8563]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

The problem as I see it is that neither raids nor fractals(dungrons have been abandoned long ago) are released with any sensible pace, so if instanced group content is something you enjoy even as a side show(like myself) it just feels like a joke.If the main focus on the game is open-world content and story content it doesnt really show either.

Well it does show, because story content generally comes out every 2-3 months, with a new zone. That shows commitment to open world.

Consider how little story there is in a "LS" episode.

Story content isn't open world. You're still missing the point. Guys like me have plenty to do. Collections are part of open world content, not story INSTANCES.

[maxwelgm.4315]

For a large portion of the game's life (I'd say up until the release of LS3 which is not long ago at all!), GW2 was kind of "lost" and developers couldn't fixate on what they actually wanted the game to be. Too much experimentation was done for too long, from the awfully unplanned Season 01 that can't be replayed by people, leaving an actual, meaningful gap in our personal story, to wasting a reasonable amount of real life money in promoting the already dying PvP scene as Esports. Raids were announced with HoT as part of this experimentation, they decided to develop something, I believe, simply because they didn't develop it into the game before. They are now at a point where they kind of know what to do with the game, but having the entire core game basically amount to a glorified beta surely has taken its toll.

A lot of their experiments get abandoned and the game goes on accumulating content that is clearly cut in half. To mention a few, everything related to Guilds and Guild halls, WvW in its entirety, dungeons, the many festivals that are full repetitions with barely any new additions every year, sPvP in its entirety, among other things. Now, even if Raids did not get abandoned (yet?), their overall design philosophy of always looking for something "new", "innovative", "shinier", instead of going for a better cadence at the cost of this constant innovation, still shows there very sharply. Many can say the bosses are released too slowly and that we have few of them, but I don't see a lot of people complaining, on the other hand (and that is a complaint you can make to WoW bosses), that bosses are too much of a repetition and/or feel too unoriginal. We can't quite say KC is the same as Gorseval or VG is the same as any of those because time has been taken to ensure the bosses remain a unique and as interesting of a challenge as possible even if it's not an insane level of challenge. In sum, I can't say if this is a good or bad thing objectively, but I definitely like the bosses that we do have, to the point I strongly oppose that they decided to improve release cadence if they have to resort to what other MMOs do (which is, masking your lack of boss uniqueness and new mechanics with vertical progression). However, I can obviously understand the frustration of people who enjoy this content so much that they do it regularly and have already exhausted their gameplay with the current selection of instances.

[Feanor.2358]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

Actually you can get a pretty good idea about the percentage of people who raid. Few weeks ago a friend of mine did some digging in GW2Efficiency, comparing specific data from the statistics on the site with statements from GW2 devs. The numbers from gw2eff were a pretty good match on all criteria he checked, so we concluded the site can be regarded as a representative for the community as a whole.

So having that in mind, you just check the unlock statistics for e.g. Fire Extinguisher achievement which is awarded for killing Sabetha. So no, it's not a very very small percentage. A lot of people have progressed this far.

[Vayne.8563]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

Actually you can get a pretty good idea about the percentage of people who raid. Few weeks ago a friend of mine did some digging in GW2Efficiency, comparing specific data from the statistics on the site with statements from GW2 devs. The numbers from gw2eff were a pretty good match on all criteria he checked, so we concluded the site can be regarded as a representative for the community as a whole.

So having that in mind, you just check the unlock statistics for e.g.

Fire Extinguisher

achievement which is awarded for killing Sabetha. So no, it's not a very very small percentage. A lot of people have progressed this far.

Wait a second. You don't think people who raid are not more likely to use Guild Wars 2 efficiency?

Casuals are less likely to raid and use Guild Wars 2 efficiency than most people in my opinion. Only a tiny tiny percentage of my casual guild uses gw2-efficiency. Most don't even know it exists. Everyone who raids in my guild, I can guarantee you, uses it. Not that many raid, but of the 400 or so people in my guild, the 10-15 who actually raid, all use GW 2 efficiency.

This assumption that gw2 efficiency somehow represents a microcosm of the playerbase is, in my mind, not supportable.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

Actually you can get a pretty good idea about the percentage of people who raid. Few weeks ago a friend of mine did some digging in GW2Efficiency, comparing specific data from the statistics on the site with statements from GW2 devs. The numbers from gw2eff were a pretty good match on all criteria he checked, so we concluded the site can be regarded as a representative for the community as a whole.

So having that in mind, you just check the unlock statistics for e.g.

Fire Extinguisher

achievement which is awarded for killing Sabetha. So no, it's not a very very small percentage. A lot of people have progressed this far.

Wait a second. You don't think people who raid are not more likely to use Guild Wars 2 efficiency?

Casuals are less likely to raid and use Guild Wars 2 efficiency than most people in my opinion. Only a tiny tiny percentage of my casual guild uses gw2-efficiency. Most don't even know it exists. Everyone who raids in my guild, I can guarantee you, uses it. Not that many raid, but of the 400 or so people in my guild, the 10-15 who actually raid, all use GW 2 efficiency.

This assumption that gw2 efficiency somehow represents a microcosm of the playerbase is, in my mind, not supportable.

This.

While gw2eff is useful in many regards, it requires a certain commitment to the game.

A Player who is as commited to clearing raids is far more likely to create a gw2eff account.

The same can be said about free2play Accounts versus upgraded accounts. The f2p percentage on gw2eff is guaranteed far lower than the actual amount of f2p Accounts game wide (relative to Population).

[Etheri.5406]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

Actually you can get a pretty good idea about the percentage of people who raid. Few weeks ago a friend of mine did some digging in GW2Efficiency, comparing specific data from the statistics on the site with statements from GW2 devs. The numbers from gw2eff were a pretty good match on all criteria he checked, so we concluded the site can be regarded as a representative for the community as a whole.

So having that in mind, you just check the unlock statistics for e.g.

Fire Extinguisher

achievement which is awarded for killing Sabetha. So no, it's not a very very small percentage. A lot of people have progressed this far.

Wait a second. You don't think people who raid are not more likely to use Guild Wars 2 efficiency?

Casuals are less likely to raid and use Guild Wars 2 efficiency than most people in my opinion. Only a tiny tiny percentage of my casual guild uses gw2-efficiency. Most don't even know it exists. Everyone who raids in my guild, I can guarantee you, uses it. Not that many raid, but of the 400 or so people in my guild, the 10-15 who actually raid, all use GW 2 efficiency.

This assumption that gw2 efficiency somehow represents a microcosm of the playerbase is, in my mind, not supportable.

And here we have it again."We are the majority, and there is no reason to further support any minorities". The same attitude that results in alienating plenty of other players. Funny, a game so focussed on equality and playing how you like being so constant aggresive regarding any gameplay that isn't their prefered more. Funny, coming from a community that considers itself the friendliest of all mmorpgs.

Yet you can't discuss WvW without being told the game is about PvE. You can't discuss PvP without being told it's toxic and anet should let it die. And that has been the case for what, 5 years? You can't ask for raid content without being told they're a side project. Meanwhile not one of them have seen content in half a year or more.

You know what's a waste of effort? Producing something requiring a lot of effort which isn't enjoyed, used or worthwhile. Like producing strondhold or guildhalls and letting them die completely. Like guildmissions and letting them die, too. Or perhaps desert bl. Or producing constant new living story maps or meta's which are barely played because their issues aren't fixed or their rewards aren't balanced - by which I mean istan gives better loot so why bother.

Do you think anet is in a better or worse state by losing major fractions its entire WvW / PvP / hardcore PvE / ... communities? I'll assume you enjoy it - it further makes you the majority! Yay! It proves you were right - PvE is more popular and you're an even bigger majority! Now surely we should only make content that we enjoy; right? Except it makes playing WvW - ESPECIALLY for players who just wanna jump in and enjoy it - worse. It makes raids - again especially for those who just wanna jump in and learn occasionally - worse. It makes PvP drastically more unfair and worse, too. Bye bye trickle-down economics because there's not enough players to trickle down from. Bye revenue from the dedicated players who enjoyed this. Byebye to a lot of the user created content, tools, publicity, ... I remember GvG's getting 1-2k+ viewers. Where'd those players go? Oh wait, they were a minority too.

And as these populations decline compared to the vast majority of casual players with hugely different expectations, they also further alienate themselves. No suprise, considering you'll bash them for being a minority if they so much as mention anything other than "oh we love living story updates".

Being a majority doesn't imply you should ignore the minorities. Alienating them with this copy-pasta argument made a 100 times doesn't fix our concerns, just further helps fuel more disagreement within the population. It also doesn't help anet create value from their development efforts, it effectively throws away many of their efforts. If we maintain the content well enough to support these players; this doesn't just lead to value from this new content. It also increases the amount old content is replayed and promoted. Content which is already paid for.

[Feanor.2358]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

Actually you can get a pretty good idea about the percentage of people who raid. Few weeks ago a friend of mine did some digging in GW2Efficiency, comparing specific data from the statistics on the site with statements from GW2 devs. The numbers from gw2eff were a pretty good match on all criteria he checked, so we concluded the site can be regarded as a representative for the community as a whole.

So having that in mind, you just check the unlock statistics for e.g.

Fire Extinguisher

achievement which is awarded for killing Sabetha. So no, it's not a very very small percentage. A lot of people have progressed this far.

Wait a second. You don't think people who raid are not more likely to use Guild Wars 2 efficiency?

Casuals are less likely to raid and use Guild Wars 2 efficiency than most people in my opinion. Only a tiny tiny percentage of my casual guild uses gw2-efficiency. Most don't even know it exists. Everyone who raids in my guild, I can guarantee you, uses it. Not that many raid, but of the 400 or so people in my guild, the 10-15 who actually raid, all use GW 2 efficiency.

This assumption that gw2 efficiency somehow represents a microcosm of the playerbase is, in my mind, not supportable.

I forgot the specific, but I did seem a very solid conclusion. I was surprised as well. The numbers also suggested surprisingly high percentage of the overall playerbase using efficiency. So even worst-case scenarios where all raiders used efficiency ended up with numbers like 10% raiders. Which is still not "very very small". It's a considerable part of the community, especially since this was a very conservative estimate.

[Draco.9480]

Casuals will blame toxic people for focusing more on raids and raiders don't enjoy open world nor the story. you do story onces and that's it. open world? farm some achievements gold and bye. what's next? people enjoy rewards like it'll give 'em anything in life. all the point is content itself. people enjoy getting rewards for running with a commander in some zerg in open world and think they accomplish something. all they do is aa and not touching raids. anet sees it and won't invest money and time cuz people lack the ability to play above just aa in open world. anet just want to please the "majority" which isn't really believeable. i saw anet's streaming about some black lion thingy market and had like 900 views and it's official from anet. and there you have teapot which isn't official and just a raider of some guild that hosted a tournament and you had 5k views livestream. raiders "minority" is so false. raiders are the sustainers of the game and yet they're getting ignored. it became a real joke. in HoT you had like 3 wings in half a year. now almost a year passed and you still have only 1 wing with 2 bosses and 2 events after 2nd expansion. not only that. the maps are joke and the open world there is so boring compared to the jungle. only dhuum is justified cuz he's a cool boss with mechanics and shit. but seriously this is getting really ridiculous.

also all those casuals blame elitists for being toxic all the time while they give no value to the community nor the game and all you hear from 'em is "me, me, me".fractals also is a disaster.

[Vinceman.4572]

@"Etheri.5406" said:And here we have it again."We are the majority, and there is no reason to further support any minorities". The same attitude that results in alienating plenty of other players. Funny, a game so focussed on equality and playing how you like being so constant aggresive regarding any gameplay that isn't their prefered more. Funny, coming from a community that considers itself the friendliest of all mmorpgs.

The problem is: You read what you want from those posts. In no way Vayne has said that they are the majority and they have the rights to lead the way of the game. That barely happens, especially not here in this subforum, where the overwhelming majority of us are raiders. Most of us just realize and accept the pure facts even though it doesn't feel good or we disagree to the company decisions. Of course we can open threads here, express our concerns on reddit and vote with our wallet. All these things are completely fine and are already made. We'll see what happens in the longer run. My guess - and it's only a guess - if Anet ever has to decide between a hardcore community or the casual crowd they'll always cater to the latter. So, at this point I'm pleased that they'll release harder content like fracs and raids even if it takes that long. Better than getting nothing which would make me leave this game within a couple of days.

[Draco.9480]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

casually enjoy the open world content

If you ask for any content that isn't exactly this; then you'll get an army of angry casuals telling you how you're a minority; this content isn't good and just a side project and only their open world / living story content matters.

If you say that regardless of that, content is very slow, they'll say you're playing too much or playing through it too quickly.

If you compare to other games or the content cadence we've literally had in the past; they'll deny most of it.

The truth is, anet's content output has drastically reduced.

If you enjoy hardcore or skill-based mmorpg gaming, then yes this is not the right game for you. If you aren't heavily invested into communities or the game, I suggest you find something else. It hasn't and won't get any better.

I understand that gw2 is a casual mmo at heart and ita main target demographic are very casual players.Which is fine since Im very casual myself, but more than 6 month for 3 raid bosses and a fractal per year is something I cant wrap my mind around.The thing is that withiut a "hardcore" community there is no community at all due to the trickle down effect...if there are no hc raiders,there wont be casual raiders since there bo where to progressno casual raiders>no occasion raiders = a very poor pve community

Raids didn't exist in this game for 3.5 years. What boggles my mind is people who thing raids are a thing in this game at all. They're really a side show. Only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase raids, but I'm guessing it's very very small, because if a fairly large portion of the playerbase did it, they'd come out more off.

This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion). Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding.

that's why anet lost so many players in those 3 years where there was that useless open world achievements and living story thingy. it didn't work and didn't bring enough funds. so they decided to make expansion with raiders to keep players playing and not to get bored fast. if no raids more than half of the community wouldn't even play the game anymore and there would be nothing to do. what's the pointing zerging tons of mobs in open world. everyone cna press aa and get reward. the reward doesn't mean anything if anyone can do it easily."They're really a side show." - you have no idea what you're talking about."but I'm guessing it's very very small" - you don't know that, and you guess without any basis."This game, in PvE, has always been centered around the open world and it's why most of us are here (in my opinion)" - that's why so many quit cuz it was based on boring content and so are you. and again you express an opinion without any evidence."Those who focus on raids think the open world is boring. I don't and never have. But I don't particularly enjoy raiding. " - cuz it's boring, if you enjoy zerging mobs in open world then you have no skill. and how is raid is boring? did you try it? or you guess again and make baseless opinion.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:And here we have it again."We are the majority, and there is no reason to further support any minorities". The same attitude that results in alienating plenty of other players. Funny, a game so focussed on equality and playing how you like being so constant aggresive regarding any gameplay that isn't their prefered more. Funny, coming from a community that considers itself the friendliest of all mmorpgs.

The problem is: You read what you want from those posts. In no way Vayne has said that they are the majority and they have the rights to lead the way of the game. That barely happens, especially not here in this subforum, where

the overwhelming majority of us are raiders

. Most of us just realize and accept the pure facts even though it doesn't feel good or we disagree to the company decisions. Of course we can open threads here, express our concerns on reddit and vote with our wallet. All these things are completely fine and are already made. We'll see what happens in the longer run. My guess - and it's only a guess - if Anet ever has to decide between a hardcore community or the casual crowd they'll always cater to the latter. So, at this point I'm pleased that they'll release harder content like fracs and raids even if it takes that long. Better than getting nothing which would make me leave this game within a couple of days.

This.

Funny how starting basic fact and corrections on assumptions made based on fact is automatically consider hostile. Vayne made a correct observation and pointed this out (gw2eff only being representativ of part of the community). What people choose to read into that shows were they are coming from mentaly.

This is the dungeon, fractal and raid forum. The majority of people reading here are in some way involved in this content (be it actively clearing, interested or concerned) . As such even opinions stated here will not reflect the vast majority of the Player base.

Crying Wolf over and over without basis is something which will discredit you very fast among peers in a discussion and will definately not add to your creditibility @Etheri.