Lets talk about Superior Sigil of Bloodlust

[joneirikb.7506]

Best troll thread, 10/10 :) Great baiting!

[Evil.1580]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:why is it every time someone dies, there's an outcry to nerf something irrelevant?

Actually, if you read the thread you would see that I was playing mesmer with this sigil and decided to "cry" about it because it makes some profession too overpowered, compared to some that can't benefit from the bonus of 3 sigils at the same time in their 1 weapon set. Then I tried scourge and thief - giving all of them insane boost too.

I'm a Tempest main, I read the flimsy arguments that were made on my behalf... We have attunements which offer just as good sigils such as cleansing and intelligence, we can benefit from those procs without switching weapon too so it goes both ways for that argument.

250 power is a lot of damage during vanilla days, but now days you can get more with a signet or a random trait... Then you dodge and gain 18 stacks of might from some random source.. So pale in comparison...

Yea, Bloodlust is irrelevant and being used as a scapegoat atm.

The on swap sigils are actually working the same for everyone because of their internal CD of 9 seconds. Yes as an ele we can change elements each ~4 sec but doesn't mean we get the on swap effect every time. The same should be done with the bloodlust sigil - it simply shouldn't give 250 power to the weapon set it is not positioned in. Also, don't forget that these professions can still use whatever 2 sigils they want in a weapon set (different from the bloodlust) and benefit from its effect on 100%. Not to mention that you can single attack someone with your 1st weapon set, switch to the other weapon set (where the bloodlust sigil is) and don't do anything (no attacks, no damage, just run somewhere or stay afk) while someone kills the foe and you will still get bonus power. Absolute insanity :)

@meowtier.1364 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:You do realize even the wiki says you lose the stacks when you unequip. Weapon swapping doesn't 'unequip'. You have the ability to 'equip' (not use) two weapons at once.

1. It says switching weapons."Sigils can only be placed in weapons. Each one-hand weapon may have only one sigil. Two-handed weapons, as of the April 14 update, can have (2) separate sigils, but both must be different. (You cannot double or otherwise "improve" a sigil's benefit by another of the same type to the weapon(s) currently in use.) Sigils have a variety of effects, such as attacks which trigger on critical hits, and attribute bonuses which increase as the player kills more enemies without being downed or
   switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil
   ."

Pretty sure that bolded part means switching to a weapon set without the sigil while killing an enemy, not switching weapons at all.

These are just speculations and not facts, the facts are written above.

@joneirikb.7506 said:Best troll thread, 10/10 :) Great baiting!

Shh, don't ruin the serious topic :)

[Schnuschnu.9857]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

Okay, let's see what the actual bonus of the bloodlust sigil is:

Since you play a power shatter mesmer and claim to burst people down, I will show this on important skills for power shatter mesmer with berserker gear.The base power of a mesmer with asc berserker gear and a gs is 2407. I wont use other sigils, runes, traits or crits since they are not important for the example. Why? They would be the same for all skills compared (with or without sigil or even other sigils) and would only bloat numbers but don't change the number ratio. I will assume 2600 defense as it covers many builds and most in WvW are somewhat sturdy. Shredding class canons is irrelevant. Anybody can do that. Also I will show the effect on a bunker with 3500 defense. Nothing that much uncommon in WvW.

Mind Wrack:2073 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2289 (216 damage gain)1540 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 1700 (160 damage gain)Note: Maximum damage with 3 illusions, much lower with less than 3. And so is the damage gain.

Spatial Surge:993 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1095 (102 damage gain)737 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 813 (76 damage gain)

Mirror Blade592 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 654 (62 damage gain)440 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 486 (46 damage gain)

Mind Stab987 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1090 (103 damage gain)733 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 810 damage (77 damage gain)

Phantasmal Berserker2452 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2708 (256 damage gain) Note: 256 damage bonus for all berserker hits in total. A Berserker hits 4 times, so 64 bonus damage per hit.1821 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 2011 (190 damage gain)

The damage gains from bloodlust ranges from 46 to 256 damage. With crits you could double this numbers, but nothing impressive.

Now the Superior Sigil of Air:488 damage vs 2600 armor363 damage vs 3500 armor

The damage from the Superior Sigil of Air can be considered damage gain as it happens instant with a crit.This is why most people prefer such sigils. They help with the burst. The damage gain from bloodlust is much lower than that with Sigil of Air for a burst. In the long term they even somewhat out. But since you play burst Air is much better. The damage gain is front loaded and this is what burst is all about. There is also Sigil of Fire which does roughly the same but a bit less effective. You can of course stack both and outperform Bloodlust completely.But what about bloodlust in the offset and fire and air in main set? This sure would be good.Yes and no. Yes if you land the burst. But as others said: Any competent roamer avoids your first burst and than what? You have cooldowns on your first weapon set and on the second you could only have 1 damage boosting sigil, therefore you lose momentum and pressure. Also Air and Fire together outperform Bloodlust already together. So why not have it on both weapon sets? So you won't lose pressure on weapon swap and don't have to wait for a second high burst. Yes the Sigils have internal cd but no enemy in his right mind will let you chain burst after burst but counter pressure or deny burst, so you have to set up the second burst regardless and by this time the cd should be up again.

To conclude: Yes Bloodlust is a damage gain, sure. A reliable at this. But not as high as other options which are:1) higher2) front loaded-> perfect for burst.Bloodlust in the second weapon set gimps this, because you lose much utility. Also first you have to get the bonus up. With Air/Fire/both you have them right at the start. You lose pressure with bloodlust since you have to wait for the second burst because:1) camping weapon and waiting for cooldowns2) switching weapon and losing pressure without good sigils on second weapon set and also waiting to swap back

So stacking sigils look good, because 250 stat boost (much wow), but in reality this isn't as high of a damage gain as other sigils and by no means op.

[Evil.1580]

@Schnuschnu.9857 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

Okay, let's see what the actual bonus of the bloodlust sigil is:

Since you play a power shatter mesmer and claim to burst people down, I will show this on important skills for power shatter mesmer with berserker gear.The base power of a mesmer with asc berserker gear and a gs is 2407. I wont use other sigils, runes, traits or crits since they are not important for the example. Why? They would be the same for all skills compared (with or without sigil or even other sigils) and would only bloat numbers but don't change the number ratio. I will assume 2600 defense as it covers many builds and most in WvW are somewhat sturdy. Shredding class canons is irrelevant. Anybody can do that. Also I will show the effect on a bunker with 3500 defense. Nothing that much uncommon in WvW.

Mind Wrack:2073 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2289 (216 damage gain)1540 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 1700 (160 damage gain)Note: Maximum damage with 3 illusions, much lower with less than 3. And so is the damage gain.

Spatial Surge:993 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1095 (102 damage gain)737 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 813 (76 damage gain)

Mirror Blade592 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 654 (62 damage gain)440 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 486 (46 damage gain)

Mind Stab987 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1090 (103 damage gain)733 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 810 damage (77 damage gain)

Phantasmal Berserker2452 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2708 (256 damage gain) Note: 256 damage bonus for all berserker hits in total. A Berserker hits 4 times, so 64 bonus damage per hit.1821 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 2011 (190 damage gain)

The damage gains from bloodlust ranges from 46 to 256 damage. With crits you could double this numbers, but nothing impressive.

Now the Superior Sigil of Air:488 damage vs 2600 armor363 damage vs 3500 armor

The damage from the Superior Sigil of Air can be considered damage gain as it happens instant with a crit.This is why most people prefer such sigils. They help with the burst. The damage gain from bloodlust is much lower than that with Sigil of Air for a burst. In the long term they even somewhat out. But since you play burst Air is much better. The damage gain is front loaded and this is what burst is all about. There is also Sigil of Fire which does roughly the same but a bit less effective. You can of course stack both and outperform Bloodlust completely.But what about bloodlust in the offset and fire and air in main set? This sure would be good.Yes and no. Yes if you land the burst. But as others said: Any competent roamer avoids your first burst and than what? You have cooldowns on your first weapon set and on the second you could only have 1 damage boosting sigil, therefore you lose momentum and pressure. Also Air and Fire together outperform Bloodlust already together. So why not have it on both weapon sets? So you won't lose pressure on weapon swap and don't have to wait for a second high burst. Yes the Sigils have internal cd but no enemy in his right mind will let you chain burst after burst but counter pressure or deny burst, so you have to set up the second burst regardless and by this time the cd should be up again.

To conclude: Yes Bloodlust is a damage gain, sure. A reliable at this. But not as high as other options which are:1) higher2) front loaded-> perfect for burst.Bloodlust in the second weapon set gimps this, because you lose much utility. Also first you have to get the bonus up. With Air/Fire/both you have them right at the start. You lose pressure with bloodlust since you have to wait for the second burst because:1) camping weapon and waiting for cooldowns2) switching weapon and losing pressure without good sigils on second weapon set and also waiting to swap back

So stacking sigils look good, because 250 stat boost (much wow), but in reality this isn't as high of a damage gain as other sigils and by no means op.

Again, you forget that you can have the 250 stats boost + air sigil + force sigil. You don't have to choose between 2.

[Schnuschnu.9857]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Schnuschnu.9857 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

Okay, let's see what the actual bonus of the bloodlust sigil is:

Since you play a power shatter mesmer and claim to burst people down, I will show this on important skills for power shatter mesmer with berserker gear.The base power of a mesmer with asc berserker gear and a gs is 2407. I wont use other sigils, runes, traits or crits since they are not important for the example. Why? They would be the same for all skills compared (with or without sigil or even other sigils) and would only bloat numbers but don't change the number ratio. I will assume 2600 defense as it covers many builds and most in WvW are somewhat sturdy. Shredding class canons is irrelevant. Anybody can do that. Also I will show the effect on a bunker with 3500 defense. Nothing that much uncommon in WvW.

Mind Wrack:2073 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2289 (216 damage gain)1540 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 1700 (160 damage gain)Note: Maximum damage with 3 illusions, much lower with less than 3. And so is the damage gain.

Spatial Surge:993 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1095 (102 damage gain)737 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 813 (76 damage gain)

Mirror Blade592 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 654 (62 damage gain)440 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 486 (46 damage gain)

Mind Stab987 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1090 (103 damage gain)733 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 810 damage (77 damage gain)

Phantasmal Berserker2452 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2708 (256 damage gain) Note: 256 damage bonus for all berserker hits in total. A Berserker hits 4 times, so 64 bonus damage per hit.1821 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 2011 (190 damage gain)

The damage gains from bloodlust ranges from 46 to 256 damage. With crits you could double this numbers, but nothing impressive.

Now the Superior Sigil of Air:488 damage vs 2600 armor363 damage vs 3500 armor

The damage from the Superior Sigil of Air can be considered damage gain as it happens instant with a crit.This is why most people prefer such sigils. They help with the burst. The damage gain from bloodlust is much lower than that with Sigil of Air for a burst. In the long term they even somewhat out. But since you play burst Air is much better. The damage gain is front loaded and this is what burst is all about. There is also Sigil of Fire which does roughly the same but a bit less effective. You can of course stack both and outperform Bloodlust completely.But what about bloodlust in the offset and fire and air in main set? This sure would be good.Yes and no. Yes if you land the burst. But as others said: Any competent roamer avoids your first burst and than what? You have cooldowns on your first weapon set and on the second you could only have 1 damage boosting sigil, therefore you lose momentum and pressure. Also Air and Fire together outperform Bloodlust already together. So why not have it on both weapon sets? So you won't lose pressure on weapon swap and don't have to wait for a second high burst. Yes the Sigils have internal cd but no enemy in his right mind will let you chain burst after burst but counter pressure or deny burst, so you have to set up the second burst regardless and by this time the cd should be up again.

To conclude: Yes Bloodlust is a damage gain, sure. A reliable at this. But not as high as other options which are:1) higher2) front loaded-> perfect for burst.Bloodlust in the second weapon set gimps this, because you lose much utility. Also first you have to get the bonus up. With Air/Fire/both you have them right at the start. You lose pressure with bloodlust since you have to wait for the second burst because:1) camping weapon and waiting for cooldowns2) switching weapon and losing pressure without good sigils on second weapon set and also waiting to swap back

So stacking sigils look good, because 250 stat boost (much wow), but in reality this isn't as high of a damage gain as other sigils and by no means op.

Again, you forget that you can have the 250 stats boost + air sigil + force sigil. You don't have to choose between 2.

@Schnuschnu.9857 said:But what about bloodlust in the offset and fire and air in main set? This sure would be good.Yes and no. Yes if you land the burst. But as others said: Any competent roamer avoids your first burst and than what? You have cooldowns on your first weapon set and on the second you could only have 1 damage boosting sigil, therefore you lose momentum and pressure. Also Air and Fire together outperform Bloodlust already together. So why not have it on both weapon sets? So you won't lose pressure on weapon swap and don't have to wait for a second high burst. Yes the Sigils have internal cd but no enemy in his right mind will let you chain burst after burst but counter pressure or deny burst, so you have to set up the second burst regardless and by this time the cd should be up again.

See above: Was already in the main post. So please read before replying.

[Evil.1580]

@Schnuschnu.9857 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Schnuschnu.9857 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

Okay, let's see what the actual bonus of the bloodlust sigil is:

Since you play a power shatter mesmer and claim to burst people down, I will show this on important skills for power shatter mesmer with berserker gear.The base power of a mesmer with asc berserker gear and a gs is 2407. I wont use other sigils, runes, traits or crits since they are not important for the example. Why? They would be the same for all skills compared (with or without sigil or even other sigils) and would only bloat numbers but don't change the number ratio. I will assume 2600 defense as it covers many builds and most in WvW are somewhat sturdy. Shredding class canons is irrelevant. Anybody can do that. Also I will show the effect on a bunker with 3500 defense. Nothing that much uncommon in WvW.

Mind Wrack:2073 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2289 (216 damage gain)1540 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 1700 (160 damage gain)Note: Maximum damage with 3 illusions, much lower with less than 3. And so is the damage gain.

Spatial Surge:993 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1095 (102 damage gain)737 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 813 (76 damage gain)

Mirror Blade592 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 654 (62 damage gain)440 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 486 (46 damage gain)

Mind Stab987 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1090 (103 damage gain)733 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 810 damage (77 damage gain)

Phantasmal Berserker2452 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2708 (256 damage gain) Note: 256 damage bonus for all berserker hits in total. A Berserker hits 4 times, so 64 bonus damage per hit.1821 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 2011 (190 damage gain)

The damage gains from bloodlust ranges from 46 to 256 damage. With crits you could double this numbers, but nothing impressive.

Now the Superior Sigil of Air:488 damage vs 2600 armor363 damage vs 3500 armor

The damage from the Superior Sigil of Air can be considered damage gain as it happens instant with a crit.This is why most people prefer such sigils. They help with the burst. The damage gain from bloodlust is much lower than that with Sigil of Air for a burst. In the long term they even somewhat out. But since you play burst Air is much better. The damage gain is front loaded and this is what burst is all about. There is also Sigil of Fire which does roughly the same but a bit less effective. You can of course stack both and outperform Bloodlust completely.But what about bloodlust in the offset and fire and air in main set? This sure would be good.Yes and no. Yes if you land the burst. But as others said: Any competent roamer avoids your first burst and than what? You have cooldowns on your first weapon set and on the second you could only have 1 damage boosting sigil, therefore you lose momentum and pressure. Also Air and Fire together outperform Bloodlust already together. So why not have it on both weapon sets? So you won't lose pressure on weapon swap and don't have to wait for a second high burst. Yes the Sigils have internal cd but no enemy in his right mind will let you chain burst after burst but counter pressure or deny burst, so you have to set up the second burst regardless and by this time the cd should be up again.

To conclude: Yes Bloodlust is a damage gain, sure. A reliable at this. But not as high as other options which are:1) higher2) front loaded-> perfect for burst.Bloodlust in the second weapon set gimps this, because you lose much utility. Also first you have to get the bonus up. With Air/Fire/both you have them right at the start. You lose pressure with bloodlust since you have to wait for the second burst because:1) camping weapon and waiting for cooldowns2) switching weapon and losing pressure without good sigils on second weapon set and also waiting to swap back

So stacking sigils look good, because 250 stat boost (much wow), but in reality this isn't as high of a damage gain as other sigils and by no means op.

Again, you forget that you can have the 250 stats boost + air sigil + force sigil. You don't have to choose between 2.

@Schnuschnu.9857 said:But what about bloodlust in the offset and fire and air in main set? This sure would be good.Yes and no. Yes if you land the burst. But as others said: Any competent roamer avoids your first burst and than what? You have cooldowns on your first weapon set and on the second you could only have 1 damage boosting sigil, therefore you lose momentum and pressure. Also Air and Fire together outperform Bloodlust already together. So why not have it on both weapon sets? So you won't lose pressure on weapon swap and don't have to wait for a second high burst. Yes the Sigils have internal cd but no enemy in his right mind will let you chain burst after burst but counter pressure or deny burst, so you have to set up the second burst regardless and by this time the cd should be up again.

See above: Was already in the main post. So please read before replying.

Swap set is utility/mobility set for most builds and not main damage dealer. If they want to deal serious damage they will do it with their main set, which will benefit from 3 sigils. Burst or not - it is the player choice - but both will benefit from 3 sigils. Frankly just open the videos in WvW and watch how they are playing. All are using it and you try to tell me that it is bad idea.

[LaGranse.8652]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Schnuschnu.9857 said:

Okay, let's see what the actual bonus of the bloodlust sigil is:

Since you play a power shatter mesmer and claim to burst people down, I will show this on important skills for power shatter mesmer with berserker gear.The base power of a mesmer with asc berserker gear and a gs is 2407. I wont use other sigils, runes, traits or crits since they are not important for the example. Why? They would be the same for all skills compared (with or without sigil or even other sigils) and would only bloat numbers but don't change the number ratio. I will assume 2600 defense as it covers many builds and most in WvW are somewhat sturdy. Shredding class canons is irrelevant. Anybody can do that. Also I will show the effect on a bunker with 3500 defense. Nothing that much uncommon in WvW.

Mind Wrack:2073 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2289 (216 damage gain)1540 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 1700 (160 damage gain)Note: Maximum damage with 3 illusions, much lower with less than 3. And so is the damage gain.

Spatial Surge:993 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1095 (102 damage gain)737 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 813 (76 damage gain)

Mirror Blade592 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 654 (62 damage gain)440 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 486 (46 damage gain)

Mind Stab987 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1090 (103 damage gain)733 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 810 damage (77 damage gain)

Phantasmal Berserker2452 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2708 (256 damage gain) Note: 256 damage bonus for all berserker hits in total. A Berserker hits 4 times, so 64 bonus damage per hit.1821 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 2011 (190 damage gain)

The damage gains from bloodlust ranges from 46 to 256 damage. With crits you could double this numbers, but nothing impressive.

Now the Superior Sigil of Air:488 damage vs 2600 armor363 damage vs 3500 armor

The damage from the Superior Sigil of Air can be considered damage gain as it happens instant with a crit.This is why most people prefer such sigils. They help with the burst. The damage gain from bloodlust is much lower than that with Sigil of Air for a burst. In the long term they even somewhat out. But since you play burst Air is much better. The damage gain is front loaded and this is what burst is all about. There is also Sigil of Fire which does roughly the same but a bit less effective. You can of course stack both and outperform Bloodlust completely.But what about bloodlust in the offset and fire and air in main set? This sure would be good.Yes and no. Yes if you land the burst. But as others said: Any competent roamer avoids your first burst and than what? You have cooldowns on your first weapon set and on the second you could only have 1 damage boosting sigil, therefore you lose momentum and pressure. Also Air and Fire together outperform Bloodlust already together. So why not have it on both weapon sets? So you won't lose pressure on weapon swap and don't have to wait for a second high burst. Yes the Sigils have internal cd but no enemy in his right mind will let you chain burst after burst but counter pressure or deny burst, so you have to set up the second burst regardless and by this time the cd should be up again.

To conclude: Yes Bloodlust is a damage gain, sure. A reliable at this. But not as high as other options which are:1) higher2) front loaded-> perfect for burst.Bloodlust in the second weapon set gimps this, because you lose much utility. Also first you have to get the bonus up. With Air/Fire/both you have them right at the start. You lose pressure with bloodlust since you have to wait for the second burst because:1) camping weapon and waiting for cooldowns2) switching weapon and losing pressure without good sigils on second weapon set and also waiting to swap back

So stacking sigils look good, because 250 stat boost (much wow), but in reality this isn't as high of a damage gain as other sigils and by no means op.

Again, you forget that you can have the 250 stats boost + air sigil + force sigil. You don't have to choose between 2.

If you run a power shatter mirage in WvW why in the world would you not run an energy sigil on each weaponset? Given how powerful mirage cloak is an energy sigil would greatly add to both the survivability of the build and add damage. It would also greatly improve the performance when the first burst fails and you actually have to fight the opponent.

[Evil.1580]

@LaGranse.8652 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Schnuschnu.9857 said:

Okay, let's see what the actual bonus of the bloodlust sigil is:

Since you play a power shatter mesmer and claim to burst people down, I will show this on important skills for power shatter mesmer with berserker gear.The base power of a mesmer with asc berserker gear and a gs is 2407. I wont use other sigils, runes, traits or crits since they are not important for the example. Why? They would be the same for all skills compared (with or without sigil or even other sigils) and would only bloat numbers but don't change the number ratio. I will assume 2600 defense as it covers many builds and most in WvW are somewhat sturdy. Shredding class canons is irrelevant. Anybody can do that. Also I will show the effect on a bunker with 3500 defense. Nothing that much uncommon in WvW.

Mind Wrack:2073 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2289 (216 damage gain)1540 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 1700 (160 damage gain)Note: Maximum damage with 3 illusions, much lower with less than 3. And so is the damage gain.

Spatial Surge:993 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1095 (102 damage gain)737 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 813 (76 damage gain)

Mirror Blade592 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 654 (62 damage gain)440 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 486 (46 damage gain)

Mind Stab987 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 1090 (103 damage gain)733 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 810 damage (77 damage gain)

Phantasmal Berserker2452 damage vs 2600 armor, with bloodlust 2708 (256 damage gain) Note: 256 damage bonus for all berserker hits in total. A Berserker hits 4 times, so 64 bonus damage per hit.1821 damage vs 3500 armor, with bloodlust 2011 (190 damage gain)

The damage gains from bloodlust ranges from 46 to 256 damage. With crits you could double this numbers, but nothing impressive.

Now the Superior Sigil of Air:488 damage vs 2600 armor363 damage vs 3500 armor

The damage from the Superior Sigil of Air can be considered damage gain as it happens instant with a crit.This is why most people prefer such sigils. They help with the burst. The damage gain from bloodlust is much lower than that with Sigil of Air for a burst. In the long term they even somewhat out. But since you play burst Air is much better. The damage gain is front loaded and this is what burst is all about. There is also Sigil of Fire which does roughly the same but a bit less effective. You can of course stack both and outperform Bloodlust completely.But what about bloodlust in the offset and fire and air in main set? This sure would be good.Yes and no. Yes if you land the burst. But as others said: Any competent roamer avoids your first burst and than what? You have cooldowns on your first weapon set and on the second you could only have 1 damage boosting sigil, therefore you lose momentum and pressure. Also Air and Fire together outperform Bloodlust already together. So why not have it on both weapon sets? So you won't lose pressure on weapon swap and don't have to wait for a second high burst. Yes the Sigils have internal cd but no enemy in his right mind will let you chain burst after burst but counter pressure or deny burst, so you have to set up the second burst regardless and by this time the cd should be up again.

To conclude: Yes Bloodlust is a damage gain, sure. A reliable at this. But not as high as other options which are:1) higher2) front loaded-> perfect for burst.Bloodlust in the second weapon set gimps this, because you lose much utility. Also first you have to get the bonus up. With Air/Fire/both you have them right at the start. You lose pressure with bloodlust since you have to wait for the second burst because:1) camping weapon and waiting for cooldowns2) switching weapon and losing pressure without good sigils on second weapon set and also waiting to swap back

So stacking sigils look good, because 250 stat boost (much wow), but in reality this isn't as high of a damage gain as other sigils and by no means op.

Again, you forget that you can have the 250 stats boost + air sigil + force sigil. You don't have to choose between 2.

If you run a power shatter mirage in WvW why in the world would you not run an energy sigil on each weaponset? Given how powerful mirage cloak is an energy sigil would greatly add to both the survivability of the build and add damage. It would also greatly improve the performance when the first burst fails and you actually have to fight the opponent.

My bursts never fail because I am very precise but even if it fails I can manage the fight further without any problem. For people that would have a problem if the burst fail can switch to sw/torch and just retreat and try again.

[Schnuschnu.9857]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

Swap set is utility/mobility set for most builds and not main damage dealer. If they want to deal serious damage they will do it with their main set, which will benefit from 3 sigils. Burst or not - it is the player choice - but both will benefit from 3 sigils. Frankly just open the videos in WvW and watch how they are playing. All are using it and you try to tell me that it is bad idea.

Like I said, it's good for the first burst. The second weaponset is not only utility. Is should also balance the weaknesses of your first. Greatsword has a problem with reflects (importance of mirror blade) and good block uptime. So your second weapon set should cover that. The problem why you don't see it that way is your spec... Mirage can get away with the "burst -> fail? -> retreat -> retry" loop (as can thief, main weapon set/shortbow). Over and over again until your burst lands. Not all professions have this options. They actually need the second weapon sigil on the second weapon set. It works for cheese builds or gimmiky builds. But this is a build problem, not a sigil problem. On most builds it isn't worth the slot as shown by math. And it is still better burst wise if the first burst fails. So the real conclussion is: Nerf the disengage potential of mirage to bring it in place with the other professions and not being able to use bloodlust in a way most professions and builds can't. Or more general: Delete cheese builds.

[Razor.6392]

@Blocki.4931 said:That's not an exploit...

And yes, having more weapon skills IS the trade off for that. Besides, this is such a minor issue because it's only relevant in PvE anyway.

How is this a tradeoff? If those weapon skills were as powerful as the ones from other classes then maybe. They're inherently weaker because it'd be too strong otherwise. The tradeoff is already there.

[Israel.7056]

OP I'm sure someone has pointed this out already but this is because Eles have four separate skill bars whereas every other class except kit engineer gets two separate skill bars. It's about tradeoffs. So with ele you get access to a more varied array of skills but less access to sigils due to the lack of weapon swap. The same is true of engi.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Start at 43:24 mark.

/thread

[Evil.1580]

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:

Start at 43:24 mark.

/thread

Basically what the guy in the video said is that you can have only one stacking bonus and that you lose the stacking bonus when you unequip the weapon - from hero to zero. We have already pointed this thing in the thread - same song with a new voice. Thank you for repeating it!

[Ayrilana.1396]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:

Start at 43:24 mark.

/thread

Basically what the guy in the video said is that you can have only one stacking bonus and that you lose the stacking bonus when you unequip the weapon - from hero to zero. We have already pointed this thing in the thread - same song with a new voice. Thank you for repeating it!

From the weapon SET.

They made sigil changes back in 2014 and you think they missed people having a sigil if bloodlust on one weapon but being able to keep the stacks when switching to another?

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

To answer your question, it is kinda not fair. An ele can just put 1 or 2 ( including aquatic weapon) sigil of bloodlust in and will benefit from the sigil through all its attunements. Where as other classes will have to purchase or find other means to equip up to three (primary, secondary and aquatic) in order to maintain bloodlust stacks. So, yeah...that isn't fair to classes that wield more than one weapon. Thank you for bringing this to our attention, Anet should immediately change this to make fair for other classes not wielding a single weapon so that they will be able to maintain stacks of bloodlust with only 1 Sigil of Bloodlust just like an ele . :)

[Evil.1580]

@Crazy.6029 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

To answer your question, it is kinda not fair. An ele can just put 1 or 2 ( including aquatic weapon) sigil of bloodlust in and will benefit from the sigil through all its attunements. Where as other classes will have to purchase or find other means to equip up to three (primary, secondary and aquatic) in order to maintain bloodlust stacks. So, yeah...that isn't fair to classes that wield more than one weapon. Thank you for bringing this to our attention, Anet should immediately change this to make fair for other classes not wielding a single weapon so that they will be able to maintain stacks of bloodlust with only 1 Sigil of Bloodlust just like an ele . :)

Yes yes, Ele staff got bloodlust + 1 more sigil while some professions got bloodlust + 1 more sigil (in their 2nd weapon set) and, oh wait, additional 2 more sigils in their 1st weapon set, and the best part - the 1st weapon set still benefits from the bloodlust of the 2nd weapon set - so other professions have basically 3 sigil effects on their main weapon set and 2 sigil effects on their 2nd weapon set while ele have always ONLY 2 sigil effects.

[Ayrilana.1396]

And yet Ele has four weapon skill sets while other classes only have two.

[Evil.1580]

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:And yet Ele has four weapon skill sets while other classes only have two.

Are you mistaken their attunements with weapon sets, because ele still can equip only 1 or 2 weapons in 1 set and not 2 or 4 in 2 sets, logically 2 sigils vs 4 sigils. Why isnt the sigil of cleansing with 4 sec cd but 9? You are going to a completely different topic but I will point you in the right direction if you want to discuss it.You can do it in one of this thread/polls, where you will clearly see that 2 weapon sets in other professions achieve insanely (by a super large gap) better results than 4 attunements of the ele?

Here:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51752/concerns-about-elementalist/p1Poll1:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51552/poll-current-most-useless-profession/p1Poll2:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53399/poll-has-the-most-useless-profession-changed/p1

But this is not the case of the topic, isn't it?

Also, don't compare only ele - compare all professions that can't swap weapons, as my OP suggests.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:And yet Ele has four weapon skill sets while other classes only have two.

Are you mistaken their attunements with weapon sets, because ele still can equip only 1 or 2 weapons in 1 set and not 2 or 4 in 2 sets, logically 2 sigils vs 4 sigils. Why isnt the sigil of cleansing with 4 sec cd but 9? You are going to a completely different topic but I will point you in the right direction if you want to discuss it.You can do it in one of this thread/polls, where you will clearly see that 2 weapon sets in other professions achieve insanely (by a super large gap) better results than 4 attunements of the ele?

Here:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51752/concerns-about-elementalist/p1

Poll1:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51552/poll-current-most-useless-profession/p1

Poll2:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53399/poll-has-the-most-useless-profession-changed/p1

But this is not the case of the topic, isn't it?

Also, don't compare only ele - compare all professions that can't swap weapons, as my OP suggests

I said weapon skill sets and not weapon sets. Ele has four weapon skill bars through their attunements while other classes only have access to two.

I could compare other classes but you started this thread about Ele. You’ve also been telling me to focus on what you were originally talking about in your OP while dismissing what they were saying. You can’t have it both ways whenever it suits you.

[Evil.1580]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:And yet Ele has four weapon skill sets while other classes only have two.

Are you mistaken their attunements with weapon sets, because ele still can equip only 1 or 2 weapons in 1 set and not 2 or 4 in 2 sets, logically 2 sigils vs 4 sigils. Why isnt the sigil of cleansing with 4 sec cd but 9? You are going to a completely different topic but I will point you in the right direction if you want to discuss it.You can do it in one of this thread/polls, where you will clearly see that 2 weapon sets in other professions achieve insanely (by a super large gap) better results than 4 attunements of the ele?

Here:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51752/concerns-about-elementalist/p1

Poll1:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51552/poll-current-most-useless-profession/p1

Poll2:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53399/poll-has-the-most-useless-profession-changed/p1

But this is not the case of the topic, isn't it?

Also, don't compare only ele - compare all professions that can't swap weapons, as my OP suggests

I said weapon

skill

sets and not weapon sets. Ele has four weapon skill bars through their attunements while other classes only have access to two.

I could compare other classes but you started this thread about Ele. You’ve also been telling me to focus on what you were originally talking about in your OP while dismissing what they were saying. You can’t have it both ways whenever it suits you.

I haven't started this thread about ele.This is my OP:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

Ele was just given as an example, I said professions not "the profession" ele.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:

Start at 43:24 mark.

/thread

Basically what the guy in the video said is that you can have only one stacking bonus and that you lose the stacking bonus when you unequip the weapon - from hero to zero. We have already pointed this thing in the thread - same song with a new voice. Thank you for repeating it!

Yep. Unequip. And the weapon isn't unequiped. It's swapped.

[Evil.1580]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:

Start at 43:24 mark.

/thread

Basically what the guy in the video said is that you can have only one stacking bonus and that you lose the stacking bonus when you unequip the weapon - from hero to zero. We have already pointed this thing in the thread - same song with a new voice. Thank you for repeating it!

Yep. Unequip. And the weapon isn't unequiped. It's swapped.

You know I have opened a ticket about this and I still have no response. We can just wait for it.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:

Start at 43:24 mark.

/thread

Basically what the guy in the video said is that you can have only one stacking bonus and that you lose the stacking bonus when you unequip the weapon - from hero to zero. We have already pointed this thing in the thread - same song with a new voice. Thank you for repeating it!

Yep. Unequip. And the weapon isn't unequiped. It's swapped.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unequip

LUL"(video games) In role-playing video games, to deactivate an item being carried by a player."When you swap your weapon set you are deactivating it and not using it anymore.

Lul is right. You choose definitions that suit you. In this game, those are not interchangeable.

So I can at this point agree with an above poster that you are only trolling.

[Evil.1580]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:

Start at 43:24 mark.

/thread

Basically what the guy in the video said is that you can have only one stacking bonus and that you lose the stacking bonus when you unequip the weapon - from hero to zero. We have already pointed this thing in the thread - same song with a new voice. Thank you for repeating it!

Yep. Unequip. And the weapon isn't unequiped. It's swapped.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unequip

LUL"(video games) In role-playing video games, to deactivate an item being carried by a player."When you swap your weapon set you are deactivating it and not using it anymore.

Lul is right. You choose definitions that suit you. In this game, those are not interchangeable.

So I can at this point agree with an above poster that you are only trolling.

So I am choosing a definition and you are not... Let's wait for the ticket.

Meanwhile, explain this:"Sigils have a variety of effects, such as attacks which trigger on critical hits, and attribute bonuses which increase as the player kills more enemies without being downed or switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil."

[MedievalThings.5417]

Yes, the OP is either trolling or just doesn't understand. You can gain 1 stacking bonus while you have the weapon equipped. 7 of 9 classes can have 2 weapon sets equipped, and can swap them without losing the stacking bonus (because they are still equipped). You only gain stacks while the weapon set with the sigil is "active" , and you don't lose them swapping because the sigil weapon in still equipped. But, you can only have 1 stacking bonus, so + power or + condition etc. You can't have bloodlust on 1 weapon set, and concentration on the other and earn both stacks. Whichever sigil gets a stack first will prevent the other stack from happening.