Should ANET introduce a basic tutorial on PvP for new players?

[Arlette.9684]

Hey there,As the title says, should the Devs spend a few months of their time introducing a proper tutorial that teaches new players strategy and general approach to PvP? I'm sure a lot of you know, and a lot of you don't, but PvP is an extremely team oriented game that can only be compared to Football as a close reference (Talking about American Football, not Soccer my European friends will have to excuse me). Winning fights against other players isn't necessarily the correct strategy as more often than not, fighting prowess takes a back seat to proper rotation and knowing when and when NOT to commit to a fight.

For me personally, I feel that having such a tutorial available is crucial to replenishing the PvP population. GW2 PvP system by default is very different from that of traditional MMOs (we love it for being different), but that on its own brings a plethora of problems and the Devs have completely neglected that fact for the past 6 years. You can't introduce a different way of playing competitively and expect everyone to understand it from the get-go. GW2 plays more like a team deathmatch in Call of Duty than a conventional MMO like WoW. Not having access to a basic tutorial that covers baseline strategy and direction for New Players, disincentivizes such players from further involvement with the game mode. They don't have much room for improvement if all the information available to them is "You suck X class, L2P!"

Dota (an example given to me by another Forum User) offers at least a basic tutorial of how you should approach the game, teaches you basic rotations and such. WHY DO WE NOT HAVE THAT? I would understand if ANET is a small Indie company that can't afford the time investment, but it's ANET a subsidiary of one of the largest online gaming conglomerates (NCSOFT). Why couldn't you put some baseline tutorials? Why can't you do it now? Would it have been too much to ask to at least provide adequate baseline PvP builds (the ones you get when you first go into the pvp lobby), that at least borderline reflect the current Meta builds? Why is this so hard?

Bottomline, It all boils down to your (ANET's) inability to implement a feature that is present in EVERY SINGLE Tripple A MMO. What the heck were you thinking? I'm hard pressed not to say, SHAME ON YOU! From Gamers by Gamers my arse.

P.S. I'm sure that more than half the PvP community (myself included), would be more than happy to contribute for FREE, in you making those Tutorials.

[reikken.4961]

yes, a basic tutorial would be very helpful

[Sampson.2403]

LOL come on football is way more complex than GW2. This game is super simple - over-glorified map control at best. The game mode descriptions explains this very well. If someone can't figure out that the game is about controlling the nodes, then no tutorial will help them.

You wanna be good at this game? Two things you need to do:

1. Learn all the cooldowns from all the meta builds so you can pwn anyone 1v1 or survive 2v1 while you kite like an ass hole
2. Learn all the kiting spots, sit on the enemy home node and give your team an enormous advantage

I am personally not willing to invest my time into learning these things, so i gather them slowly, and I one shot to HEAVEN.

[Arlette.9684]

@Sampson.2403 said:LOL come on football is way more complex than GW2. This game is super simple - over-glorified map control at best. The game mode descriptions explains this very well. If someone can't figure out that the game is about controlling the nodes, then no tutorial will help them.

You wanna be good at this game? Two things you need to do:

1. Learn all the cooldowns from all the meta builds so you can pwn anyone 1v1 or survive 2v1 while you kite like an kitten hole
2. Learn all the kiting spots, sit on the enemy home node and give your team an enormous advantage

I am personally not willing to invest my time into learning these things, so i gather them slowly, and I one shot to HEAVEN.

You're looking at this from the perspective of a player that has learned strategy through months and years of trial and error. Now think back to when you first started, wouldn't you've been happier if there was a tutorial that at least touched upon those things?

[reikken.4961]

actually, I find that the most important skill is knowing where to be and when.when and where to engage. when to disengage. should I even be fighting here? where should I be right now? etcThough this will vary depending on your build/class, your role, so it's non-trivial to teach.

[tinyreborn.1938]

They should have done that yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaars ago....

[MyPuppy.8970]

There's a dodge golem.

[Allarius.5670]

When I talk to folks who do not PvP there are three major reasons that almost always begin to stand out: toxicity, time to kill discrepancies, and game mode. I would think a proper tutorial for the game mode would fall under a portion of the later complaint, but not encompass its entirety. I'm sure many have genuine dislike for conquest regardless of any depth or complexity.

Though I appreciate the idea that a proper tutorial might rejuvenate interest in those new and old, I think the underlying motivation for such a task relies heavily on information we, as players, can never have due to PR liabilities: trend in PvP population and popularity, short term and long term support plans for PvP, how PvP fits into the overarching game regarding time and money, etc.

[sephiroth.4217]

Do I want someone who doesn't understand the game mode to make a tutorial for the game mode?To me, that answer is quite obvious.

Do I want Anet to waste time on making a Tutorial instead of focusing on more frequent AT's, Swiss and Alliances?Another obvious answer to me.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Arlette.9684 I'll bet you'd be surprised at how many people wouldn't even read, watch, or run through it.

[Ashgar.3024]

Isn't unranked basically the tutorial? At least its how i learned when i started a little over a year ago (i was brand new to Guild Wars as a franchise). Imho there's only so much you can do to hold someone's hand, if they have real interest in PvP, they will seek to improve themselves after trying it out (via unranked), through watching streams and looking for infos online etc.

[Arlette.9684]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Arlette.9684 I'll bet you'd be surprised at how many people wouldn't even read, watch, or run through it.

Oh I totally foresee that happening, that shouldn't be an excuse for the Devs being lazy for the 6 years since game launch. Even if 20% of the New players check those tutorials, that's still 20% more than what we have now.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Because it is a Learn to Play issue, there should be a lesson dedicated to fighting a mirage. A little birdy can float around as you are about to activate skills and say things like "no, no, no, I wouldn't do that if I were you" or "wait, don't use your burst, it's a trick"

[Arlette.9684]

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Because it is a Learn to Play issue, there should be a lesson dedicated to fighting a mirage. A little birdy can float around as you are about to activate skills and say things like "no, no, no, I wouldn't do that if I were you" or "wait, don't use your burst, it's a trick"

Now you're learing :smiley:

[Aridon.8362]

To be fair the literally give you instructions on what to do when you first join the map for the very first time. But you can't read so you click the close button and just roll with it. Honestly it's pretty easy to learn what to do.

Making strategies, which is what you actually want instead of a tutorial on something super simple to understand, is something you need to coordinate with people for. Anyone player can decide to simply work against the team in everything regardless and you can't do anything about it, but then again, people rarely do, and nobody is forcing you to play the game in a specific way anyway.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Arlette.9684" said:Hey there,As the title says, should the Devs spend a few months of their time introducing a proper tutorial that teaches new players strategy and general approach to PvP? I'm sure a lot of you know, and a lot of you don't, but PvP is an extremely team oriented game that can only be compared to Football as a close reference (Talking about American Football, not Soccer my European friends will have to excuse me). Winning fights against other players isn't necessarily the correct strategy as more often than not, fighting prowess takes a back seat to proper rotation and knowing when and when NOT to commit to a fight.

For me personally, I feel that having such a tutorial available is crucial to replenishing the PvP population. GW2 PvP system by default is very different from that of traditional MMOs (we love it for being different), but that on its own brings a plethora of problems and the Devs have completely neglected that fact for the past 6 years. You can't introduce a different way of playing competitively and expect everyone to understand it from the get-go. GW2 plays more like a team deathmatch in Call of Duty than a conventional MMO like WoW. Not having access to a basic tutorial that covers baseline strategy and direction for New Players, disincentivizes such players from further involvement with the game mode. They don't have much room for improvement if all the information available to them is "You suck X class, L2P!"

Dota (an example given to me by another Forum User) offers at least a basic tutorial of how you should approach the game, teaches you basic rotations and such. WHY DO WE NOT HAVE THAT? I would understand if ANET is a small Indie company that can't afford the time investment, but it's ANET a subsidiary of one of the largest online gaming conglomerates (NCSOFT). Why couldn't you put some baseline tutorials? Why can't you do it now? Would it have been too much to ask to at least provide adequate baseline PvP builds (the ones you get when you first go into the pvp lobby), that at least borderline reflect the current Meta builds? Why is this so hard?

Bottomline, It all boils down to your (ANET's) inability to implement a feature that is present in EVERY SINGLE Tripple A MMO. What the heck were you thinking? I'm hard pressed not to say, SHAME ON YOU! From Gamers by Gamers my kitten.

P.S. I'm sure that more than half the PvP community (myself included), would be more than happy to contribute for FREE, in you making those Tutorials.

There is no tutorial for common sense....3 people who chase one guy off point while rest of their team struggle to keep a single point against 4 opponents...they are clearly not interested in learning anything

[Arlette.9684]

@Aridon.8362 said:To be fair the literally give you instructions on what to do when you first join the map for the very first time. But you can't read so you click the close button and just roll with it. Honestly it's pretty easy to learn what to do.

Making strategies, which is what you actually want instead of a tutorial on something super simple to understand, is something you need to coordinate with people for. Anyone player can decide to simply work against the team in everything regardless and you can't do anything about it, but then again, people rarely do, and nobody is forcing you to play the game in a specific way anyway.

Which would be fine, if we had 10k players participating in every pvp season, alas we've been pushed into a corner of 1k or less according to most recent speculations and in large part due to poor management of the game mode over the years by the Devs.

[Aridon.8362]

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Aridon.8362 said:To be fair the literally give you instructions on what to do when you first join the map for the very first time. But you can't read so you click the close button and just roll with it. Honestly it's pretty easy to learn what to do.

Making strategies, which is what you actually want instead of a tutorial on something super simple to understand, is something you need to coordinate with people for. Anyone player can decide to simply work against the team in everything regardless and you can't do anything about it, but then again, people rarely do, and nobody is forcing you to play the game in a specific way anyway.

Which would be fine, if we had 10k players participating in every pvp season, alas we've been pushed into a corner of 1k or less according to most recent speculations and in large part due to poor management of the game mode over the years by the Devs.

Yes it's the management's fault, likewise for wvw, NCsoft has a tight grip on what anet can or can't do and pvp is no different. Yes the real owner of anet is NCsoft the whole time and they're the real reason anet hasn't moved forward with modes that don't generate enough money, if you understand what I mean. WvW and PvP balance surprisingly enough is maintained by the PVE team! And what's more shocking is the fact that the player is still the commander of the whole game!

[Arlette.9684]

@Aridon.8362 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Aridon.8362 said:To be fair the literally give you instructions on what to do when you first join the map for the very first time. But you can't read so you click the close button and just roll with it. Honestly it's pretty easy to learn what to do.

Making strategies, which is what you actually want instead of a tutorial on something super simple to understand, is something you need to coordinate with people for. Anyone player can decide to simply work against the team in everything regardless and you can't do anything about it, but then again, people rarely do, and nobody is forcing you to play the game in a specific way anyway.

Which would be fine, if we had 10k players participating in every pvp season, alas we've been pushed into a corner of 1k or less according to most recent speculations and in large part due to poor management of the game mode over the years by the Devs.

Yes it's the management's fault, likewise for wvw, NCsoft has a tight grip on what anet can or can't do and pvp is no different. Yes the real owner of anet is NCsoft the whole time and they're the real reason anet hasn't moved forward with modes that don't generate enough money, if you understand what I mean. WvW and PvP balance surprisingly enough is maintained by the PVE team! And what's more shocking is the fact that the player is still the commander of the whole game!

NCSOFT has very little interest in what actually happens in GW2. They only care if the company/studio is profitable or not. The creative process behind the game is all ANET, it's ANET's job to keep us hooked on the game and in the last 6 years they've found a way to crapshoot the game from an e-sport to something you can barely stomach, at least as far as PvP is concerned. If I were them, I'd be scrambling to figure out ways to spike interest in the game mode that they initially sold us the game with. "A PvP oriented game" sound familiar? It's ok if it doesn't, it's been 6 years. But I actually pre-ordered and I remember what they sold me. Here I am 6 years later still waiting on them to do good on their word. JK! :lol:

[wanya.1697]

basic tutorials are on youtubeI would like to see anet take more time on better tooltip description so new players get a better understanding about what is influenced by their trait or even rune choicesand why skill x does 5k+ dmg instead of only 495 like mentioned in description would also help very much so you dont have to look at the wiki to get info on skills coeficent

[AllNightPlayer.1286]

And do not allow them into rated matches, until they reached rank 40.They should learn the basics in Hotjoin first and not reduce the rated match up quality.

[st elmos fire.2987]

I think good and easy way would be to just make a link that shows up to new players in pvp and it takes them here on the "new to PvP?" thread. Maybe update the thread with some links to community created guides or something.I feel like anything bigger than that would take 2 years to implement and would not be worth it.

[Namless.4028]

There has been a tutorial in old hotm. They just need to allow players to get there.

(It was very basic but still better zhan nothing)

[whoknocks.4935]

They could introduce a practice mode with bot professions controlled by AI.

I know it sounds weird, but could be cool.

And then give general tips always right:Never jump into a 1vs2.Don't plus 1 your teammate if he is holding the node and not at risk to die.Always stomp players on the cap.Move between the points where you see your presence can be crucial for winning a fight and a node.Evaluate your life during the match more than a node, it's better to disengage a fight and give up the node than fight for the node and end up dead plus lost the node.

And then of course a tutorial of different profession roles, roamer, bunker, duelist etc etc.

But it's just an utopia, who really like pvp just go research videos and streams and playing a lot he will learn... casual players don't have time to invest to learn the gamemode.

[Kitarpa.8143]

YES, YES, YES, AND YES.

Something that explains game flow at least, something, I don't care if most people don't read it because it's the ones that do that matter and have a higher chance of continuously playing sPVP anyway. I am so tired of players not knowing how to win conquest. No idea how the point system works, nothing. Any attempt of producing better introduced players to join the sPVP community is a-ok with me.