Engie balance patch notes preview - gyros get reworked

[Dediggefedde.4961]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:now that Blast Finisher are worth even more.I must have missed something. ^^Why are blast finishers worth more now?I don't see any reason to dismiss the 3 AoE-stuns, evasions, leaps, block, and reflect from hammer for a single blast finisher on a 24s CD.Soothing detonation doesn't heal much and shocking speed will probably loose its lightning-blast-equals-superspeed property.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Dediggefedde.4961 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:now that Blast Finisher are worth even more.I must have missed something. ^^Why are blast finishers worth more now?I don't see any reason to dismiss the 3 AoE-stuns, evasions, leaps, block, and reflect from hammer for a single blast finisher on a 24s CD.Soothing detonation doesn't heal much and shocking speed will probably loose its lightning-blast-equals-superspeed property.

I play only in zergs these days.When i played Medi Scrapper i had never a reason to be on Hammer, other then Skill 5.You know. Pirate Ship Meta.

With the new Scrapper i would play 4 kits, so i would be on Hammer even less time.

So yes. I would trade everything the Hammer has for one single Blast Finisher on 24 sec CD.

[MrForz.1953]

It's amazing, I'm indifferent from all this, only numbers may decide if it's worth it or not.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:I play only in zergs these days.When i played Medi Scrapper i had never a reason to be on Hammer, other then Skill 5.You know. Pirate Ship Meta.

Me too. To us, pirateship is an illusion.During the last weeks not a single fight without meelee bombs and push-throughs.Own and enemy's downs only happen in meelee parts, too.Daredevil and power-necros in top-dps (very often above revs) positions.And I also have many oportunities for the hammer-3 aoe stun combo, reflecting stuff with hammer-2 or hitting or pushing through bombs with hammer-4.Even tried out "mine" for some time, getting on average half the strips of necros in addition to scrappers healing/cleanse.

I guess the meta depends on servers/enemies/own_playstyle ;)

But even then, I think the shield-block and hammer-5 is worth more than a blast finisher, unless you do smoke-blasting.

[stone cold.8609]

I'm looking forward to the changes. I have a couple of Scrapper builds in mind to try with the new gyros.

[Jaruselka.5943]

About time they pushed out a useful patch for the Engie..the past couple of ones have been garbage nerfs (gutted tinctures, reflect wall removal etc)

[miriforst.1290]

Im intrigued with the bulwark change.

With the information we have right now though i will say this:

The damage transfer will either risk being to minor to notice, or high enough to make the scrapper explode when used in a group setting given the amount of cleave and aoe. And at the end of the day one might still wonder why one does not simply apply protection instead for unconditional -33% (or higher depending on traits) damage. The original bulwark illustrated some of the problems with redirecting 5 players damage to a single entity, but the hp of bulwark was atleast summoned out of thin air with no ill consequences for the scrapper. Now one might think that the scrapper simply needs to get tanky enough to not turn low evenly divided cleave into slightly less cleave and one instant down, but with how the game is constructed damage is mostly reduced though active means like invulnerabilities, evades and block not to mention other methods of evasion including mobility and stealth. I doubt we will be able to block or otherwise negate this damage (except with the unknown amount of barrier), which in conjunction with the removal of bulwark gyro (the only damage reduction on the scrapper traitline) being removed with the patch risks making the scrapper quite vulnerable for something which again could probably have been done better by protection. It focuses damage on one person, risking creating a down player where the damage otherwise might have been harmlessly divided and outhealed (since most healing support is aoe anyways).

My idea for a solution

Add another detail to the skill: The damage transferred to the scrapper is reduced by (for example) 75% while the engineer is under the effect of barrier. This means that you can still have an impactful amount of damage transfer like 50%, making it worthwhile in wvw and similar situations but the scrapper can take actions to negate the punishment by making sure he is keeping a solid amount of barrier on him. This creates interesting synergy with the skill itself (applying frequent low amounts of barrier), the hammer (shock shield) , and barrier traits. The scrappers selfish tanking tools then allows him to tank for the team instead of just for himself. But if the scrapper is focused out of barrier while his friends are taking damage he will go down very fast.

In short- high risk high reward. At the moment i only see high risk meh reward possible or at best meh risk, meh reward.

Yes i know there is a team barrier component to it but honestly the damage transfer is the interesting part of the skill.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

@miriforst.1290 said:why one does not simply apply protection instead for unconditional -33%

One reason is, that it can be applied on top of protection (-33% ^ 2 = -56 %) and together with dwarf-ritus -78%.Maybe they will also let it affect condition damage, which would be another reason.

But I also fear it to be too strong for the scrapper or too weak for allies.In 1vs1 its useless per definition, in smallscale roaming (~5 players) you will eat the damage on your classy companions and on mid/large scale enemy-bombs will melt you. It's not uncommon there that a enemy-bomb deals enoguh damage to your group, to reduce their HP to 50-70% (without heal), so multiply that with 5 and maybe 0.66, if the old dmg reduction is still in place, and you get something like 100-200% of your companions avg lifebar as additional damage to you...

[Tsan.6431]

@Dediggefedde.4961 said:

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:Clean ALL the conditions!!!

How do you think will healscrapper develop?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqencoCdpitpC2aB0ehFDjS8c6v/juxj8KPMAuv8D-jlhXQBYU9HAs/wieAAaUJYGV+VnTAAA-wSomething like this for a group / instance : maximum of AOE and combo finisher

And for a solo run, i'm looking for interraction with "sanctuary rune"

[derd.6413]

i wonder if you could combine bulwark gyro and elixer S for temporary group invul

[ApaWanka.2698]

For what I can read, the patch notes about Burwark gyro said "redirect SOME damage".

Up to my knowledge, even if we don't know the value, that "SOME" exclude the 100% value. of the group damage.

So, burlwark+Elixirs is not group invul (that would be broken) o other things mentioned before. We don't even know if that effect can go through ElixirS (like overheat)

My guess is that will be between 33% to 50% of the damage and I hope that that damage could be reduced via prot+barrier. But that's just my guess.

[Gringo.2163]

idk if it is somewhere mentioned but medic gyro do not create water field but light field :(

[Tinnel.4369]

@Gringo.2163 said:idk if it is somewhere mentioned but medic gyro do not create water field but light field :(

It looks labeled lightning, but if you finish in it it's water.

[Gringo.2163]

lightning *

[Brendan.1309]

Have any hard stats been released on scrapper gyros, i.e. radius, duration, cd anywhere other than in game?I'm excited too see all of this but I won't be able to log in for a long time and I doubt I'll have much time to test it when I do.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Brendan.1309 said:Have any hard stats been released on scrapper gyros, i.e. radius, duration, cd anywhere other than in game?I'm excited too see all of this but I won't be able to log in for a long time and I doubt I'll have much time to test it when I do.

20s cooldowns on most, 45s on sneak240 radius, traitable to 360Most durations are 5 seconds with 5-6 pulses

[Ojimaru.8970]

@Brendan.1309 said:Have any hard stats been released on scrapper gyros, i.e. radius, duration, cd anywhere other than in game?I'm excited too see all of this but I won't be able to log in for a long time and I doubt I'll have much time to test it when I do.

Blast Gyro1/4 cast time, 25s CD240 base radius, 360 w/ Shocking Speed2x Might (8s base) per pulse4 PulsesBlast Delay 3sFire Field during Blast Delay; Blast Finisher on BlastDamage, and Launch up to 5 targets on Blast; Unblockable

Shredder Gyro1/4 cast time, 25s CD240 base radius, 360 w/ Shocking SpeedDamage (x12): 960 baseDuration: 6sStrike/Whirl interval: 0.5sWhirl Finisher

Purge Gyro0 cast time, 20s CD240 base radius, 360 w/ Shocking Speed1 Condition removed per pulse5 pulses over 5 secondsLight Field throughout duration

Bulwark Gyro0 cast time, 20s CD240 base radius, 360 w/ Shocking SpeedInitial personal barrier: 2,894 base; 3,328 w/ Impact Savant (0.44 coefficient)Barrier per pulse: 946 base; 1,088 w/ Impact Savant (0.11 coefficient)1 pulse per second over 5 secondsLightning Field

Sneak Gyro0.75s cast time; 45s CD240 base radius, 360 w/ Shocking SpeedStealth: 3s per pulse6 Pulses over 5 seconds at 1 second intervalsSmoke Field throughout duration

[Dawdler.8521]

Ok, the new gyro scrapper is amazing.

I predict a nerf pretty quickly. The gyros goes on cd straight away so cd are very short. I was in combat with the sneak gyro and still stealthed with 12s left on cd... and that's no blast finishers in the smoke field.

[Brendan.1309]

One more thing, it says gyros can no longer be targeted, but are they still subject to cleave/aoe damage?

Surely none of those changes apply to the function gyro right?

[Tinnel.4369]

@Dawdler.8521 said:Ok, the new gyro scrapper is amazing.

I predict a nerf pretty quickly. The gyros goes on cd straight away so cd are very short. I was in combat with the sneak gyro and still stealthed with 12s left on cd... and that's no blast finishers in the smoke field.

While I don't disagree with you, I hope it stays because it makes for kitless play I think if you do it right.

The sneak gyro being visible on you is, meh.....

[Tinnel.4369]

Just me or is shredder gyro's toolbelt new?

[Ojimaru.8970]

@Brendan.1309 said:One more thing, it says gyros can no longer be targeted, but are they still subject to cleave/aoe damage?

They are untargetable as they are now Wells centered on, and follows the caster.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Ok, the new gyro scrapper is amazing.

I predict a nerf pretty quickly. The gyros goes on cd straight away so cd are very short. I was in combat with the sneak gyro and still stealthed with 12s left on cd... and that's no blast finishers in the smoke field.

While I don't disagree with you, I hope it stays because it makes for kitless play I think if you do it right.

The sneak gyro being visible on you is, meh.....

Well of course I hope it stays like this because it remind me of the immense fun that was the original gyros, before they nerfed them to oblivion... But still, I feel like they're gonna nerf them again. I guess it all comes down to how meta it become in PvP. The best outcome for me would be keeping the cooldowns in WvW, then doing whatever the heck they want in PvP because I dont do that. Cant say I noticed any roaming scrappers at all in WvW except me these last hours, but then again it's 100+ queues on every border and people just farm the warclaw.

[Manuhell.2759]

So, regarding unmentioned changes:Some of the radiuses got lowered (it was 600 before for bulwark and sneak gyro)Some cooldowns got increased (but the cooldown starts at the activation now, and it doesn't have to wait for destruction)All the durations are around 5/6 seconds.

We'll have to see about the changes - some of them may end up unused if they can't compete with kits, as any other non-kit utility skill - but what's the point of giving us early patch notes if all the important informations are omitted?

[Dediggefedde.4961]

Is watchful eye of bulwark still the old 33%?Is all 33% transfered to the engineer?

I used it today (we had 110 queue on all borders, so first in RdN ^^) and didn't notice a damage increase while doing a meelee bomb.So far it feels really nice, since you stunlock people with it's lightning-field+hammer-3, which gives you AoE superspeed and solo-stability (shocking speed + kinetic stabilizer), which grants more self-heal (rapid regen) and passive group heal (mdf).