Scrapper

[Curennos.9307]

Smol CD increases. Make Bulkwark gyro NOT an essentially barrier based heal skill that's better than most actual heal skills (lower value, pump up the scaling w/healing power). Keep Medic Gyro's heal the same, but lower the initial chunk of healing and spread it out more. Small nerf to Stealth gyro duration, then see what happens.

Also, if someone could explain why people are so fond of Adaptive armor (But in using and, apparently, complaining about?) over Kinetic Stabilizers, I'd appreciate it. It seems only superior in managing condis, but with purge gyro, elixir gun 5 and blasting/leaping/whatever the field provided by elixir gun 5 (super elixir), setups don't look lacking in cleanse. Not...super durable against condis, but having 20% dmg reduction while barrier is up doesn't seem all the necessary to me. Especially if you're using menders or something over a more toughness oriented amulet (I run more healing power over toughness because I like seeing my health ping-pong . At 1400 HP I think I get 600 ish ticks from Rapid Regen).

[Rusty.9348]

@"Curennos.9307" said:Smol CD increases. Make Bulkwark gyro NOT an essentially barrier based heal skill that's better than most actual heal skills (lower value, pump up the scaling w/healing power). Keep Medic Gyro's heal the same, but lower the initial chunk of healing and spread it out more. Small nerf to Stealth gyro duration, then see what happens.Why do you bother suggesting Scrapper nerfs as a Scrapper? Forum whiners will do it for you. The problem is that a scrapper has almost nothing but survivability, nerfing it will just make the class thinner without any "reward"

[Zenix.6198]

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

[Curennos.9307]

@Rusty.9348 said:

@"Curennos.9307" said:Smol CD increases. Make Bulkwark gyro NOT an essentially barrier based heal skill that's better than most actual heal skills (lower value, pump up the scaling w/healing power). Keep Medic Gyro's heal the same, but lower the initial chunk of healing and spread it out more. Small nerf to Stealth gyro duration, then see what happens.Why do you bother suggesting Scrapper nerfs as a Scrapper? Forum whiners will do it for you. The problem is that a scrapper has almost nothing but survivability, nerfing it will just make the class thinner without any "reward"

Not sure why you think folks should just let the forum whiners shout and have even a small amount of influence over anything. Remaining quiet doesn't seem particularly wise.

[DaShi.1368]

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

[sephiroth.4217]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

[TorQ.7041]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

[sephiroth.4217]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

[TorQ.7041]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

You make it out as if it's a hardcounter whichbis misinformation. I also play scrap. I have had zero problems with either class. Power or Condi. With the right build. At least the one I am using. A scourge literally does nothing. You have 2 lighting fields to spam Condi removl with the heal gyro and bulwark using mortar. You have a trait that every Condi you remove turns into a boon. You have exlier gun 4 on combo field 5 hammer to removal all Condi. You have purge gyro that removes Condi for that duration. If you feel your HP is low you can f1 f3 or heal gyro for water field combo to heal over what ever Condi dmg you have that's 3 water fields.... You have mortar 5 to heal over that.Not to mention hammer 4 to block. Hammer 3 to evade. There is absolutely zero chance a Condi scourge can kill you unless you basically do nothing and walk into all attacks. I would argue even some 1 that spams all skills on a rotation with out much knowledge and just pressing everything sequentially can survive vs a condi player infinitely. There is literally no attrition because you won't receive any damage from the first place. You literally have so much Condi removal you don't need to worry about Condi at all.

If you are dying to Condi. 1 you don't know how to use combos to remove Condi or 2. You pressed everything and wasted it all.3. you are not using the bunker build in which you do more hammer damage and deserve to be punished when not playing correctly.

On time of that every time you gain superspeed you heal. Assuming you took 3 gyros. You also get that heal.

If you watch chaith on twitch he doesn't even bring purge gyro since he's so good at evading the hit in the first place. Exlier gun and combo field is already enough for him.

Even before the update. You can take power mes as scrapper. Can go back and watch chaith's twtich videos.

Power mesmer does not have enough spike to kill a full tank scrapper.you also have a passive for barrier to stop u from dying from that. Mesmer is actually the only one class u can forcefully push off the node.

If you are not playing attention and your passive is gone. Yes a power mesmer can 1 shot you from stealth. But the moment you see one and hear the sound he's about to use mirrior blade and you dodge. And put your protection up. He won't be able to kill you. With oversheid at extra 40% dmg reduction on protection. The rest of a power mes attack isn't a problem. Esp if you mortar weakness and blinds at him.

I don't know about you but I have had zero problems with these 2 classes on 1550+ rating. This is not to say I am better but that I am certain these necros and mesmers at 1550-1700 rating know what they are doing to win since they are at the top of the board. You can really make alot of mistakes against socurge and power mes and be fine.

The only 2 classes I find you can absolutely not make a mistake is warrior and reaper. 1 daze and you are gone due to the inability to make a combo field. And the massive dps from these 2 classes can unleash on you.

[sephiroth.4217]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

You make it out as if it's a hardcounter whichbis misinformation. I also play scrap. I have had zero problems with either class. Power or Condi. With the right build. At least the one I am using. A scourge literally does nothing. You have 2 lighting fields to spam Condi removl with the heal gyro and bulwark using mortar. You have a trait that every Condi you remove turns into a boon. You have exlier gun 4 on combo field 5 hammer to removal all Condi. You have purge gyro that removes Condi for that duration. If you feel your HP is low you can f1 f3 or heal gyro for water field combo to heal over what ever Condi dmg you have that's 3 water fields.... You have mortar 5 to heal over that.Not to mention hammer 4 to block. Hammer 3 to evade. There is absolutely zero chance a Condi scourge can kill you unless you basically do nothing and walk into all attacks. I would argue even some 1 that spams all skills on a rotation with out much knowledge and just pressing everything sequentially can survive vs a condi player infinitely. There is literally no attrition because you won't receive any damage from the first place. You literally have so much Condi removal you don't need to worry about Condi at all.

If you are dying to Condi. 1 you don't know how to use combos to remove Condi or 2. You pressed everything and wasted it all.3. you are not using the bunker build in which you do more hammer damage and deserve to be punished when not playing correctly.

On time of that every time you gain superspeed you heal. Assuming you took 3 gyros. You also get that heal.

If you watch chaith on twitch he doesn't even bring purge gyro since he's so good at evading the hit in the first place. Exlier gun and combo field is already enough for him.

Even before the update. You can take power mes as scrapper. Can go back and watch chaith's twtich videos.

Power mesmer does not have enough spike to kill a full tank scrapper.you also have a passive for barrier to stop u from dying from that. Mesmer is actually the only one class u can forcefully push off the node.

If you are not playing attention and your passive is gone. Yes a power mesmer can 1 shot you from stealth. But the moment you see one and hear the sound he's about to use mirrior blade and you dodge. And put your protection up. He won't be able to kill you. With oversheid at extra 40% dmg reduction on protection. The rest of a power mes attack isn't a problem. Esp if you mortar weakness and blinds at him.

I don't know about you but I have had zero problems with these 2 classes on 1550+ rating. This is not to say I am better but that I am certain these necros and mesmers at 1550-1700 rating know what they are doing to win since they are at the top of the board. You can really make alot of mistakes against socurge and power mes and be fine.

The only 2 classes I find you can absolutely not make a mistake is warrior and reaper. 1 daze and you are gone due to the inability to make a combo field. And the massive dps from these 2 classes can unleash on you.

That was a lot of theoretical situations but that's all it is, I think most call it "whataboutism"...

I never said hardcounter either so fabricating your own interpretations won't help either of us obtain a focused and healthy discussion.You said yourself that scrapper can onlybe beaten with CC and burst, which is exactly what Core mes and chrono can do.

My offer is there if you want to take it but I am just posting through experience of being on the givng end and recieving end.

[Balsa.3951]

Yep it’s broken played scrapper first time in my life today game won and it needed 4 ppl to kill me...

That was just bizarre especially since I tried be bunker with Firebrand a class which is a specialization of my main class I play since 6 years ....

I just pushed all buttons heal than this heal than that heal and when I felt I die stealth gyro heal and come back heal ... it was kinda fun I admit so

[TorQ.7041]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

You make it out as if it's a hardcounter whichbis misinformation. I also play scrap. I have had zero problems with either class. Power or Condi. With the right build. At least the one I am using. A scourge literally does nothing. You have 2 lighting fields to spam Condi removl with the heal gyro and bulwark using mortar. You have a trait that every Condi you remove turns into a boon. You have exlier gun 4 on combo field 5 hammer to removal all Condi. You have purge gyro that removes Condi for that duration. If you feel your HP is low you can f1 f3 or heal gyro for water field combo to heal over what ever Condi dmg you have that's 3 water fields.... You have mortar 5 to heal over that.Not to mention hammer 4 to block. Hammer 3 to evade. There is absolutely zero chance a Condi scourge can kill you unless you basically do nothing and walk into all attacks. I would argue even some 1 that spams all skills on a rotation with out much knowledge and just pressing everything sequentially can survive vs a condi player infinitely. There is literally no attrition because you won't receive any damage from the first place. You literally have so much Condi removal you don't need to worry about Condi at all.

If you are dying to Condi. 1 you don't know how to use combos to remove Condi or 2. You pressed everything and wasted it all.3. you are not using the bunker build in which you do more hammer damage and deserve to be punished when not playing correctly.

On time of that every time you gain superspeed you heal. Assuming you took 3 gyros. You also get that heal.

If you watch chaith on twitch he doesn't even bring purge gyro since he's so good at evading the hit in the first place. Exlier gun and combo field is already enough for him.

Even before the update. You can take power mes as scrapper. Can go back and watch chaith's twtich videos.

Power mesmer does not have enough spike to kill a full tank scrapper.you also have a passive for barrier to stop u from dying from that. Mesmer is actually the only one class u can forcefully push off the node.

If you are not playing attention and your passive is gone. Yes a power mesmer can 1 shot you from stealth. But the moment you see one and hear the sound he's about to use mirrior blade and you dodge. And put your protection up. He won't be able to kill you. With oversheid at extra 40% dmg reduction on protection. The rest of a power mes attack isn't a problem. Esp if you mortar weakness and blinds at him.

I don't know about you but I have had zero problems with these 2 classes on 1550+ rating. This is not to say I am better but that I am certain these necros and mesmers at 1550-1700 rating know what they are doing to win since they are at the top of the board. You can really make alot of mistakes against socurge and power mes and be fine.

The only 2 classes I find you can absolutely not make a mistake is warrior and reaper. 1 daze and you are gone due to the inability to make a combo field. And the massive dps from these 2 classes can unleash on you.

That was a lot of theoretical situations but that's all it is, I think most call it "whataboutism"...

I never said hardcounter either so fabricating your own interpretations won't help either of us obtain a focused and healthy discussion.You said yourself that scrapper can onlybe beaten with CC and burst, which is exactly what Core mes and chrono can do.

My offer is there if you want to take it but I am just posting through experience of being on the givng end and recieving end.

So you agree that there's no way a scourge can kill you then with what I have given? It's not therotical.. beause it's a build you can use and I use it everyday...it's not therotical cos I am winning with it... Its on metabattle builds now...

A mesmer's cc is so little. There is the pistol which can daze. You have your reflect on hammer 2, projectile destruction on skill given by bulwark. You have skill 4 to block. The animation is so big and the sound is so big you have all the time to react. There is gravity well which you can also stun break out of if you took purge gyro. There is stun lock, which is often used before mirrior blade. But if you have played gw2 even for the past 6 months you will recongize the sound it plays and dodge even if you have zero map awareness.

You literally have every tool and more to deal with a mesmer.

I really don't care about ueling you dude. I only care about getting to rank 100 on the leaderboard for the title. I am about 170 or something right now give or take the day. I don't see mesmer or necro to be something to be afraid of. In fact I am pretty happy scrapper is pushing mirage off because there will be more warriors and I like paying my warrior too.

[sephiroth.4217]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

You make it out as if it's a hardcounter whichbis misinformation. I also play scrap. I have had zero problems with either class. Power or Condi. With the right build. At least the one I am using. A scourge literally does nothing. You have 2 lighting fields to spam Condi removl with the heal gyro and bulwark using mortar. You have a trait that every Condi you remove turns into a boon. You have exlier gun 4 on combo field 5 hammer to removal all Condi. You have purge gyro that removes Condi for that duration. If you feel your HP is low you can f1 f3 or heal gyro for water field combo to heal over what ever Condi dmg you have that's 3 water fields.... You have mortar 5 to heal over that.Not to mention hammer 4 to block. Hammer 3 to evade. There is absolutely zero chance a Condi scourge can kill you unless you basically do nothing and walk into all attacks. I would argue even some 1 that spams all skills on a rotation with out much knowledge and just pressing everything sequentially can survive vs a condi player infinitely. There is literally no attrition because you won't receive any damage from the first place. You literally have so much Condi removal you don't need to worry about Condi at all.

If you are dying to Condi. 1 you don't know how to use combos to remove Condi or 2. You pressed everything and wasted it all.3. you are not using the bunker build in which you do more hammer damage and deserve to be punished when not playing correctly.

On time of that every time you gain superspeed you heal. Assuming you took 3 gyros. You also get that heal.

If you watch chaith on twitch he doesn't even bring purge gyro since he's so good at evading the hit in the first place. Exlier gun and combo field is already enough for him.

Even before the update. You can take power mes as scrapper. Can go back and watch chaith's twtich videos.

Power mesmer does not have enough spike to kill a full tank scrapper.you also have a passive for barrier to stop u from dying from that. Mesmer is actually the only one class u can forcefully push off the node.

If you are not playing attention and your passive is gone. Yes a power mesmer can 1 shot you from stealth. But the moment you see one and hear the sound he's about to use mirrior blade and you dodge. And put your protection up. He won't be able to kill you. With oversheid at extra 40% dmg reduction on protection. The rest of a power mes attack isn't a problem. Esp if you mortar weakness and blinds at him.

I don't know about you but I have had zero problems with these 2 classes on 1550+ rating. This is not to say I am better but that I am certain these necros and mesmers at 1550-1700 rating know what they are doing to win since they are at the top of the board. You can really make alot of mistakes against socurge and power mes and be fine.

The only 2 classes I find you can absolutely not make a mistake is warrior and reaper. 1 daze and you are gone due to the inability to make a combo field. And the massive dps from these 2 classes can unleash on you.

That was a lot of theoretical situations but that's all it is, I think most call it "whataboutism"...

I never said hardcounter either so fabricating your own interpretations won't help either of us obtain a focused and healthy discussion.You said yourself that scrapper can onlybe beaten with CC and burst, which is exactly what Core mes and chrono can do.

My offer is there if you want to take it but I am just posting through experience of being on the givng end and recieving end.

So you agree that there's no way a scourge can kill you then with what I have given? It's not therotical.. beause it's a build you can use and I use it everyday...it's not therotical cos I am winning with it... Its on metabattle builds now...

A mesmer's cc is so little. There is the pistol which can daze. You have your reflect on hammer 2, projectile destruction on skill given by bulwark. You have skill 4 to block. The animation is so big and the sound is so big you have all the time to react. There is gravity well which you can also stun break out of if you took purge gyro. There is stun lock, which is often used before mirrior blade. But if you have played gw2 even for the past 6 months you will recongize the sound it plays and dodge even if you have zero map awareness.

You literally have every tool and more to deal with a mesmer.

I really don't care about ueling you dude. I only care about getting to rank 100 for the title. I am about 170 or something right now give or take the day. I don't see mesmer or necro to be something to be afraid of. In fact I am pretty happy scrapper is pushing mirage off because there will be more warriors and I like paying my warrior too.

Youre assuming builds and playstyles then basing you're entire argument on it.My Chrono actually runs Sw/Sh with Power Block and the chrono CC proc, tonnes of CC with F3, shield 5, Gravity well, GS/Staff 5 and Signet all combined with CS (specifically listed what I use on chrono).Please don't say "but bulwark yadda yadda", doesnt take a genius to wait it out.

Im not agreeing with anything because Im just saying what I see through experience. There is literally nothing to agree or disagree with.

Best of luck getting that title too, Im actually surprised people are still taking ranked seriously. If not this season I bet you could get it next one or the one after.

[Amityel.5324]

I dont get it.....ventari bunker was OP pple whined about it but scrapper is okay......I am glad I play once in a while

[TorQ.7041]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

You make it out as if it's a hardcounter whichbis misinformation. I also play scrap. I have had zero problems with either class. Power or Condi. With the right build. At least the one I am using. A scourge literally does nothing. You have 2 lighting fields to spam Condi removl with the heal gyro and bulwark using mortar. You have a trait that every Condi you remove turns into a boon. You have exlier gun 4 on combo field 5 hammer to removal all Condi. You have purge gyro that removes Condi for that duration. If you feel your HP is low you can f1 f3 or heal gyro for water field combo to heal over what ever Condi dmg you have that's 3 water fields.... You have mortar 5 to heal over that.Not to mention hammer 4 to block. Hammer 3 to evade. There is absolutely zero chance a Condi scourge can kill you unless you basically do nothing and walk into all attacks. I would argue even some 1 that spams all skills on a rotation with out much knowledge and just pressing everything sequentially can survive vs a condi player infinitely. There is literally no attrition because you won't receive any damage from the first place. You literally have so much Condi removal you don't need to worry about Condi at all.

If you are dying to Condi. 1 you don't know how to use combos to remove Condi or 2. You pressed everything and wasted it all.3. you are not using the bunker build in which you do more hammer damage and deserve to be punished when not playing correctly.

On time of that every time you gain superspeed you heal. Assuming you took 3 gyros. You also get that heal.

If you watch chaith on twitch he doesn't even bring purge gyro since he's so good at evading the hit in the first place. Exlier gun and combo field is already enough for him.

Even before the update. You can take power mes as scrapper. Can go back and watch chaith's twtich videos.

Power mesmer does not have enough spike to kill a full tank scrapper.you also have a passive for barrier to stop u from dying from that. Mesmer is actually the only one class u can forcefully push off the node.

If you are not playing attention and your passive is gone. Yes a power mesmer can 1 shot you from stealth. But the moment you see one and hear the sound he's about to use mirrior blade and you dodge. And put your protection up. He won't be able to kill you. With oversheid at extra 40% dmg reduction on protection. The rest of a power mes attack isn't a problem. Esp if you mortar weakness and blinds at him.

I don't know about you but I have had zero problems with these 2 classes on 1550+ rating. This is not to say I am better but that I am certain these necros and mesmers at 1550-1700 rating know what they are doing to win since they are at the top of the board. You can really make alot of mistakes against socurge and power mes and be fine.

The only 2 classes I find you can absolutely not make a mistake is warrior and reaper. 1 daze and you are gone due to the inability to make a combo field. And the massive dps from these 2 classes can unleash on you.

That was a lot of theoretical situations but that's all it is, I think most call it "whataboutism"...

I never said hardcounter either so fabricating your own interpretations won't help either of us obtain a focused and healthy discussion.You said yourself that scrapper can onlybe beaten with CC and burst, which is exactly what Core mes and chrono can do.

My offer is there if you want to take it but I am just posting through experience of being on the givng end and recieving end.

So you agree that there's no way a scourge can kill you then with what I have given? It's not therotical.. beause it's a build you can use and I use it everyday...it's not therotical cos I am winning with it... Its on metabattle builds now...

A mesmer's cc is so little. There is the pistol which can daze. You have your reflect on hammer 2, projectile destruction on skill given by bulwark. You have skill 4 to block. The animation is so big and the sound is so big you have all the time to react. There is gravity well which you can also stun break out of if you took purge gyro. There is stun lock, which is often used before mirrior blade. But if you have played gw2 even for the past 6 months you will recongize the sound it plays and dodge even if you have zero map awareness.

You literally have every tool and more to deal with a mesmer.

I really don't care about ueling you dude. I only care about getting to rank 100 for the title. I am about 170 or something right now give or take the day. I don't see mesmer or necro to be something to be afraid of. In fact I am pretty happy scrapper is pushing mirage off because there will be more warriors and I like paying my warrior too.

Youre assuming builds and playstyles then basing you're entire argument on it.My Chrono actually runs Sw/Sh with Power Block and the chrono CC proc, tonnes of CC with F3, shield 5, Gravity well, GS/Staff 5 and Signet all combined with CS (specifically listed what I use on chrono). The only person Ive faught that beat me on this build as an Engie was some dude called MLGKronos or something, we had a decent 3 minute fight or so before he won.Please don't say "but bulwark yadda yadda", doesnt take a genius to wait it out.

Im not agreeing with anything because Im just saying what I see through experience. There is literally nothing to agree or disagree with.

Best of luck getting that title too, Im actually surprised people are still taking ranked seriously. If not this season I bet you could get it next one or the one after.

Haha you are completely ignoring scourge now that I ve told you the amount of Condi clear a scrapper has.

Yeah I want the title. It's difficult to get. It proves you can carry thru all the lower ranks. Both mechically and map awareness wise a plat 2+ player is just better at winning in this game mode. If you put a team of those vs a team of gold or silver. Plat team will win by a landslide. Gold and silver is also where you see players complain about a class cos they don't know when to use skills or to pick fights then call op. I used to do the same.

[sephiroth.4217]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

You make it out as if it's a hardcounter whichbis misinformation. I also play scrap. I have had zero problems with either class. Power or Condi. With the right build. At least the one I am using. A scourge literally does nothing. You have 2 lighting fields to spam Condi removl with the heal gyro and bulwark using mortar. You have a trait that every Condi you remove turns into a boon. You have exlier gun 4 on combo field 5 hammer to removal all Condi. You have purge gyro that removes Condi for that duration. If you feel your HP is low you can f1 f3 or heal gyro for water field combo to heal over what ever Condi dmg you have that's 3 water fields.... You have mortar 5 to heal over that.Not to mention hammer 4 to block. Hammer 3 to evade. There is absolutely zero chance a Condi scourge can kill you unless you basically do nothing and walk into all attacks. I would argue even some 1 that spams all skills on a rotation with out much knowledge and just pressing everything sequentially can survive vs a condi player infinitely. There is literally no attrition because you won't receive any damage from the first place. You literally have so much Condi removal you don't need to worry about Condi at all.

If you are dying to Condi. 1 you don't know how to use combos to remove Condi or 2. You pressed everything and wasted it all.3. you are not using the bunker build in which you do more hammer damage and deserve to be punished when not playing correctly.

On time of that every time you gain superspeed you heal. Assuming you took 3 gyros. You also get that heal.

If you watch chaith on twitch he doesn't even bring purge gyro since he's so good at evading the hit in the first place. Exlier gun and combo field is already enough for him.

Even before the update. You can take power mes as scrapper. Can go back and watch chaith's twtich videos.

Power mesmer does not have enough spike to kill a full tank scrapper.you also have a passive for barrier to stop u from dying from that. Mesmer is actually the only one class u can forcefully push off the node.

If you are not playing attention and your passive is gone. Yes a power mesmer can 1 shot you from stealth. But the moment you see one and hear the sound he's about to use mirrior blade and you dodge. And put your protection up. He won't be able to kill you. With oversheid at extra 40% dmg reduction on protection. The rest of a power mes attack isn't a problem. Esp if you mortar weakness and blinds at him.

I don't know about you but I have had zero problems with these 2 classes on 1550+ rating. This is not to say I am better but that I am certain these necros and mesmers at 1550-1700 rating know what they are doing to win since they are at the top of the board. You can really make alot of mistakes against socurge and power mes and be fine.

The only 2 classes I find you can absolutely not make a mistake is warrior and reaper. 1 daze and you are gone due to the inability to make a combo field. And the massive dps from these 2 classes can unleash on you.

That was a lot of theoretical situations but that's all it is, I think most call it "whataboutism"...

I never said hardcounter either so fabricating your own interpretations won't help either of us obtain a focused and healthy discussion.You said yourself that scrapper can onlybe beaten with CC and burst, which is exactly what Core mes and chrono can do.

My offer is there if you want to take it but I am just posting through experience of being on the givng end and recieving end.

So you agree that there's no way a scourge can kill you then with what I have given? It's not therotical.. beause it's a build you can use and I use it everyday...it's not therotical cos I am winning with it... Its on metabattle builds now...

A mesmer's cc is so little. There is the pistol which can daze. You have your reflect on hammer 2, projectile destruction on skill given by bulwark. You have skill 4 to block. The animation is so big and the sound is so big you have all the time to react. There is gravity well which you can also stun break out of if you took purge gyro. There is stun lock, which is often used before mirrior blade. But if you have played gw2 even for the past 6 months you will recongize the sound it plays and dodge even if you have zero map awareness.

You literally have every tool and more to deal with a mesmer.

I really don't care about ueling you dude. I only care about getting to rank 100 for the title. I am about 170 or something right now give or take the day. I don't see mesmer or necro to be something to be afraid of. In fact I am pretty happy scrapper is pushing mirage off because there will be more warriors and I like paying my warrior too.

Youre assuming builds and playstyles then basing you're entire argument on it.My Chrono actually runs Sw/Sh with Power Block and the chrono CC proc, tonnes of CC with F3, shield 5, Gravity well, GS/Staff 5 and Signet all combined with CS (specifically listed what I use on chrono). The only person Ive faught that beat me on this build as an Engie was some dude called MLGKronos or something, we had a decent 3 minute fight or so before he won.Please don't say "but bulwark yadda yadda", doesnt take a genius to wait it out.

Im not agreeing with anything because Im just saying what I see through experience. There is literally nothing to agree or disagree with.

Best of luck getting that title too, Im actually surprised people are still taking ranked seriously. If not this season I bet you could get it next one or the one after.

Haha you are completely ignoring scourge now that I ve told you the amount of Condi clear a scrapper has.

Yeah I want the title. It's difficult to get. It proves you can carry thru all the lower ranks. Both mechically and map awareness wise a plat 2+ player is just better at this game mode. If you put a team of those vs a team of gold or silver. Plat team will win by a landslide. It's also where you see players complain about a class cos they don't when to use skills then call op. I used to do the same.

Im not ignoring scourge, I just don't have enough energy in me to keep explaining things to you that you could do yourself, Im also sensing an urge from you to win something here so I'm honestly not too fond of the idea of engaging with you any further.

Its nice to hear after 15 or so seasons you will get that title, like I said, best of luck to this season and the next few after that.

[TorQ.7041]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

You make it out as if it's a hardcounter whichbis misinformation. I also play scrap. I have had zero problems with either class. Power or Condi. With the right build. At least the one I am using. A scourge literally does nothing. You have 2 lighting fields to spam Condi removl with the heal gyro and bulwark using mortar. You have a trait that every Condi you remove turns into a boon. You have exlier gun 4 on combo field 5 hammer to removal all Condi. You have purge gyro that removes Condi for that duration. If you feel your HP is low you can f1 f3 or heal gyro for water field combo to heal over what ever Condi dmg you have that's 3 water fields.... You have mortar 5 to heal over that.Not to mention hammer 4 to block. Hammer 3 to evade. There is absolutely zero chance a Condi scourge can kill you unless you basically do nothing and walk into all attacks. I would argue even some 1 that spams all skills on a rotation with out much knowledge and just pressing everything sequentially can survive vs a condi player infinitely. There is literally no attrition because you won't receive any damage from the first place. You literally have so much Condi removal you don't need to worry about Condi at all.

If you are dying to Condi. 1 you don't know how to use combos to remove Condi or 2. You pressed everything and wasted it all.3. you are not using the bunker build in which you do more hammer damage and deserve to be punished when not playing correctly.

On time of that every time you gain superspeed you heal. Assuming you took 3 gyros. You also get that heal.

If you watch chaith on twitch he doesn't even bring purge gyro since he's so good at evading the hit in the first place. Exlier gun and combo field is already enough for him.

Even before the update. You can take power mes as scrapper. Can go back and watch chaith's twtich videos.

Power mesmer does not have enough spike to kill a full tank scrapper.you also have a passive for barrier to stop u from dying from that. Mesmer is actually the only one class u can forcefully push off the node.

If you are not playing attention and your passive is gone. Yes a power mesmer can 1 shot you from stealth. But the moment you see one and hear the sound he's about to use mirrior blade and you dodge. And put your protection up. He won't be able to kill you. With oversheid at extra 40% dmg reduction on protection. The rest of a power mes attack isn't a problem. Esp if you mortar weakness and blinds at him.

I don't know about you but I have had zero problems with these 2 classes on 1550+ rating. This is not to say I am better but that I am certain these necros and mesmers at 1550-1700 rating know what they are doing to win since they are at the top of the board. You can really make alot of mistakes against socurge and power mes and be fine.

The only 2 classes I find you can absolutely not make a mistake is warrior and reaper. 1 daze and you are gone due to the inability to make a combo field. And the massive dps from these 2 classes can unleash on you.

That was a lot of theoretical situations but that's all it is, I think most call it "whataboutism"...

I never said hardcounter either so fabricating your own interpretations won't help either of us obtain a focused and healthy discussion.You said yourself that scrapper can onlybe beaten with CC and burst, which is exactly what Core mes and chrono can do.

My offer is there if you want to take it but I am just posting through experience of being on the givng end and recieving end.

So you agree that there's no way a scourge can kill you then with what I have given? It's not therotical.. beause it's a build you can use and I use it everyday...it's not therotical cos I am winning with it... Its on metabattle builds now...

A mesmer's cc is so little. There is the pistol which can daze. You have your reflect on hammer 2, projectile destruction on skill given by bulwark. You have skill 4 to block. The animation is so big and the sound is so big you have all the time to react. There is gravity well which you can also stun break out of if you took purge gyro. There is stun lock, which is often used before mirrior blade. But if you have played gw2 even for the past 6 months you will recongize the sound it plays and dodge even if you have zero map awareness.

You literally have every tool and more to deal with a mesmer.

I really don't care about ueling you dude. I only care about getting to rank 100 for the title. I am about 170 or something right now give or take the day. I don't see mesmer or necro to be something to be afraid of. In fact I am pretty happy scrapper is pushing mirage off because there will be more warriors and I like paying my warrior too.

Youre assuming builds and playstyles then basing you're entire argument on it.My Chrono actually runs Sw/Sh with Power Block and the chrono CC proc, tonnes of CC with F3, shield 5, Gravity well, GS/Staff 5 and Signet all combined with CS (specifically listed what I use on chrono). The only person Ive faught that beat me on this build as an Engie was some dude called MLGKronos or something, we had a decent 3 minute fight or so before he won.Please don't say "but bulwark yadda yadda", doesnt take a genius to wait it out.

Im not agreeing with anything because Im just saying what I see through experience. There is literally nothing to agree or disagree with.

Best of luck getting that title too, Im actually surprised people are still taking ranked seriously. If not this season I bet you could get it next one or the one after.

Haha you are completely ignoring scourge now that I ve told you the amount of Condi clear a scrapper has.

Yeah I want the title. It's difficult to get. It proves you can carry thru all the lower ranks. Both mechically and map awareness wise a plat 2+ player is just better at this game mode. If you put a team of those vs a team of gold or silver. Plat team will win by a landslide. It's also where you see players complain about a class cos they don't when to use skills then call op. I used to do the same.

Im not ignoring scourge, I just don't have enough energy in me to keep explaining things to you that you could do yourself, Im also sensing an urge from you to win something here so I'm honestly not too fond of the idea of engaging with you any further.

Its nice to hear after 15 or so seasons you will get that title, like I said, best of luck to this season and the next few after that.

Not really. It's just fact that with so much Condi removal. A scrapper is simply not going to die to a scourge. Makes zero sense.

Actually. This is my third season of pvp. So your intent to mock me saying it took me 15 seasons to learn the game mode doesn't work LOL. Even tho u don't even play ranked as you said so. You have no idea what it's like.

[sephiroth.4217]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

You make it out as if it's a hardcounter whichbis misinformation. I also play scrap. I have had zero problems with either class. Power or Condi. With the right build. At least the one I am using. A scourge literally does nothing. You have 2 lighting fields to spam Condi removl with the heal gyro and bulwark using mortar. You have a trait that every Condi you remove turns into a boon. You have exlier gun 4 on combo field 5 hammer to removal all Condi. You have purge gyro that removes Condi for that duration. If you feel your HP is low you can f1 f3 or heal gyro for water field combo to heal over what ever Condi dmg you have that's 3 water fields.... You have mortar 5 to heal over that.Not to mention hammer 4 to block. Hammer 3 to evade. There is absolutely zero chance a Condi scourge can kill you unless you basically do nothing and walk into all attacks. I would argue even some 1 that spams all skills on a rotation with out much knowledge and just pressing everything sequentially can survive vs a condi player infinitely. There is literally no attrition because you won't receive any damage from the first place. You literally have so much Condi removal you don't need to worry about Condi at all.

If you are dying to Condi. 1 you don't know how to use combos to remove Condi or 2. You pressed everything and wasted it all.3. you are not using the bunker build in which you do more hammer damage and deserve to be punished when not playing correctly.

On time of that every time you gain superspeed you heal. Assuming you took 3 gyros. You also get that heal.

If you watch chaith on twitch he doesn't even bring purge gyro since he's so good at evading the hit in the first place. Exlier gun and combo field is already enough for him.

Even before the update. You can take power mes as scrapper. Can go back and watch chaith's twtich videos.

Power mesmer does not have enough spike to kill a full tank scrapper.you also have a passive for barrier to stop u from dying from that. Mesmer is actually the only one class u can forcefully push off the node.

If you are not playing attention and your passive is gone. Yes a power mesmer can 1 shot you from stealth. But the moment you see one and hear the sound he's about to use mirrior blade and you dodge. And put your protection up. He won't be able to kill you. With oversheid at extra 40% dmg reduction on protection. The rest of a power mes attack isn't a problem. Esp if you mortar weakness and blinds at him.

I don't know about you but I have had zero problems with these 2 classes on 1550+ rating. This is not to say I am better but that I am certain these necros and mesmers at 1550-1700 rating know what they are doing to win since they are at the top of the board. You can really make alot of mistakes against socurge and power mes and be fine.

The only 2 classes I find you can absolutely not make a mistake is warrior and reaper. 1 daze and you are gone due to the inability to make a combo field. And the massive dps from these 2 classes can unleash on you.

That was a lot of theoretical situations but that's all it is, I think most call it "whataboutism"...

I never said hardcounter either so fabricating your own interpretations won't help either of us obtain a focused and healthy discussion.You said yourself that scrapper can onlybe beaten with CC and burst, which is exactly what Core mes and chrono can do.

My offer is there if you want to take it but I am just posting through experience of being on the givng end and recieving end.

So you agree that there's no way a scourge can kill you then with what I have given? It's not therotical.. beause it's a build you can use and I use it everyday...it's not therotical cos I am winning with it... Its on metabattle builds now...

A mesmer's cc is so little. There is the pistol which can daze. You have your reflect on hammer 2, projectile destruction on skill given by bulwark. You have skill 4 to block. The animation is so big and the sound is so big you have all the time to react. There is gravity well which you can also stun break out of if you took purge gyro. There is stun lock, which is often used before mirrior blade. But if you have played gw2 even for the past 6 months you will recongize the sound it plays and dodge even if you have zero map awareness.

You literally have every tool and more to deal with a mesmer.

I really don't care about ueling you dude. I only care about getting to rank 100 for the title. I am about 170 or something right now give or take the day. I don't see mesmer or necro to be something to be afraid of. In fact I am pretty happy scrapper is pushing mirage off because there will be more warriors and I like paying my warrior too.

Youre assuming builds and playstyles then basing you're entire argument on it.My Chrono actually runs Sw/Sh with Power Block and the chrono CC proc, tonnes of CC with F3, shield 5, Gravity well, GS/Staff 5 and Signet all combined with CS (specifically listed what I use on chrono). The only person Ive faught that beat me on this build as an Engie was some dude called MLGKronos or something, we had a decent 3 minute fight or so before he won.Please don't say "but bulwark yadda yadda", doesnt take a genius to wait it out.

Im not agreeing with anything because Im just saying what I see through experience. There is literally nothing to agree or disagree with.

Best of luck getting that title too, Im actually surprised people are still taking ranked seriously. If not this season I bet you could get it next one or the one after.

Haha you are completely ignoring scourge now that I ve told you the amount of Condi clear a scrapper has.

Yeah I want the title. It's difficult to get. It proves you can carry thru all the lower ranks. Both mechically and map awareness wise a plat 2+ player is just better at this game mode. If you put a team of those vs a team of gold or silver. Plat team will win by a landslide. It's also where you see players complain about a class cos they don't when to use skills then call op. I used to do the same.

Im not ignoring scourge, I just don't have enough energy in me to keep explaining things to you that you could do yourself, Im also sensing an urge from you to win something here so I'm honestly not too fond of the idea of engaging with you any further.

Its nice to hear after 15 or so seasons you will get that title, like I said, best of luck to this season and the next few after that.

Not really. It's just fact that with so much Condi removal. A scrapper is simply not going to die to a scourge. Makes zero sense.

Actually. This is my third season of pvp. So your intent to mock me saying it took me 15 seasons to learn the game mode doesn't work LOL. Even tho u don't even play ranked as you said so. You have no idea what it's like.

I never said I don't play ranked? I personally just don't care for it after the removal of team queue.. I still queue but usually with a real life friend and we always troll our games.

I already said attrition in regards to necro, there's a window there where you can load up some conditions.. I have done it and have had it done to me..

No intent to mock you, Im sorry you feel that way and I can understand how it might look that way after reading back on it, It was mostly aimed at the state of PvP and how its evolved over the last 6 or so years.

I hope that answers all of your questions, welcome to pvp and best of luck getting those titles.

[Chaith.8256]

Here are the Scrapper matchups when both players know what they're doing:

Running Purge Gyro and Purity of Purpose, regardless of amulet:

• You will crush Condi Mirage, Condi Rev and Curses Scourge on point.
• Endless matchup vs. Blood Scourge, both your damage is meaningless.
• You will have negative 1v1 results vs. Sic-Em Soulbeasts, Power Mirage, and Strength Spellbreaker. This is due to the very devastating CC combos they can put you through when you're light on stunbreaks and Stab. These builds are an answer to anti-condi Scrapper.

So now you're running my preferred build at the moment: Hybrid Gyros and Elixirs with HgH. (Medic gyro, Bulwark, Elixir U, eGun, Elixir X.) So you pick up Elixir U stunbreak and stability, while having about half as much condi removal.

Basically flip the script on matchups. You'll:

• Full cap a point vs. Power Mirage, Sic-Em Soulbeast, force them to retreat after failing to kill you.
• Stalemate Strength Spellbreaker, but you can definitely lose if you aren't vigilant. Playing defensively is key and forget trying to kill.
• Scourge, Mirage, and condi Rev become a concern. This becomes a showdown between who avoids damage better.

Additional notes:

• So my data didn't include testing against power Rev, which I can only speculate how this would go.
• Any thief build has no chance of killing either Scrapper build 1v1.
• Edit: Any Scrapper build will have a complete stalemate against Weaver, Boonbeast, and Chaos Chrono

So figure out what you're up against first and enter the right matchup vs. Scrapper.

[alain.1659]

As the previous post suggests scrapper needs to be dealt with specific skills or traits. Boon corruption+instaburst tends to work against them. Heavy cc+instaburst also gives good results. But all in all scrapper is really tanky and hard to kill unlike many other professions.

The real problem is the lack of build diversity. If all professions had more working talents and skills there would be several different counters for specific problems. But there are so few to work with.

[Vagrant.7206]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Actually, scourge functionally erased scrapper when it first appeared. The corruption mechanic was lethal for scrapper.

Now granted, both specs have changed in pretty significant ways since then, and scrapper isn't nearly as bad against scourge, but scourge (and necro as a whole) still tends to have an advantage on scrapper because of corruption.

I can't say much about mesmer because I haven't tried a matchup against it while playing scrapper. I get too bored playing scrapper.

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

You make it out as if it's a hardcounter whichbis misinformation. I also play scrap. I have had zero problems with either class. Power or Condi. With the right build. At least the one I am using. A scourge literally does nothing. You have 2 lighting fields to spam Condi removl with the heal gyro and bulwark using mortar. You have a trait that every Condi you remove turns into a boon. You have exlier gun 4 on combo field 5 hammer to removal all Condi. You have purge gyro that removes Condi for that duration. If you feel your HP is low you can f1 f3 or heal gyro for water field combo to heal over what ever Condi dmg you have that's 3 water fields.... You have mortar 5 to heal over that.Not to mention hammer 4 to block. Hammer 3 to evade. There is absolutely zero chance a Condi scourge can kill you unless you basically do nothing and walk into all attacks. I would argue even some 1 that spams all skills on a rotation with out much knowledge and just pressing everything sequentially can survive vs a condi player infinitely. There is literally no attrition because you won't receive any damage from the first place. You literally have so much Condi removal you don't need to worry about Condi at all.

If you are dying to Condi. 1 you don't know how to use combos to remove Condi or 2. You pressed everything and wasted it all.3. you are not using the bunker build in which you do more hammer damage and deserve to be punished when not playing correctly.

On time of that every time you gain superspeed you heal. Assuming you took 3 gyros. You also get that heal.

If you watch chaith on twitch he doesn't even bring purge gyro since he's so good at evading the hit in the first place. Exlier gun and combo field is already enough for him.

Even before the update. You can take power mes as scrapper. Can go back and watch chaith's twtich videos.

1. Lightning fields don't remove condis. Light fields do when they are blasted.
2. Condi removal is a combination of Purge Gyro and Reconstruction Field (with anticorrosion plating). The heal gyro alone does no condi removal, nor does reconstruction field without anticorrosion plating. For extra measure, E-Gun 5 + 4 will remove 2 condis as well, but those shouldn't be your primary condi removal skills given their long casting time and low removal potential. All other condi removal will come from runes or sigils, which are not class-specific.
3. You still have to interact with the water fields in order to get extra healing from them. Scrapper only has one skill which serves as two leap finishers built into hammer. You can throw in a blast finisher with acid bomb, but that's all you're getting. If you used those finishers offensively, you cannot use them defensively, and vice versa.
4. Blocking with hammer 4 is less effective against necro than other classes. You ever noticed they can hit you with their staff skills regardless of whether you're blocking?
5. @Chaith.8256 is not the rule, he is an exception. He played scrapper really hard pre-patch to perform at the same levels that holos were playing at. I know because I actually fought him in a few matches on my prot holo. He could hold a point against me, to be sure, but he couldn't kill me without significant assistance. And with scrapper post-patch, that's still the case.

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Have been playing the build quite a bit since this post..I initially thought it was OP but now Im not so sure, it seems to only fit into the OP category if the other team doesn't have pulls/knockbacks AND decide to 3v1 over thier home node..

The comp is extremely broken with a FB, but again this is only if the enemy team wants to butt heads over the point they guard, little bit of rotation outplays here again.

While the build itself could use some shaves or tweaks such as adding cast times to Bulwark (where it shines most after being CC'd), I honestly dont think its as OP as I once did as it seems to only stomp baddies and while that may sound like a good reason to nerf it, its not and thats because it encourages good play. It's going to help those less experienced into rotating properly.

Very much this.I have said this in another thread already, but I will go ahead an repeat myself here.

Scrapper kinda reminds me of HoT druid. Its just another bunker, that cant really kill people.Sure it has teamfight utility, but when talking about its sidenode-role, the best thing it can do, is stalemate any other 1v1 spec.This is good for holding capped nodes, but terrible for contesting enemy ones.

People have become so alienated by the super high dmg meta we had for ~18 months now, that they just dont know how to play against an actual bunker.If you think about it, newer people (= people that didnt play pre PoF) have NEVER actually had to bother with this kind of gameplay. They are so used to just zerging people down, that they overcommit so hard to try to kill a scrapper, that they dont pay any attention to the rest of the map.

It's very much a rotation / map-awareness issue.If you see a scrapper camping a node, dont bother. Win the rest of the map 5v4.

If a scrapper is contesting one of YOUR nodes, just leave one of your 1v1ers to deal with it.The scrapper wont kill it and you still have the score-ticks while figthing 4v4 on the rest of the map.

It literally the same as druid back in HoT.

Edit: Im not denying that scrapper isn't strong rn. And I actually think, that it could deal with some nerfs in certain departments (looking at you 8k barrier bulwark gyro without any investment into healing power). It's just not as OP as people make it out to be.

They nerfed druid because this doesn't work. If you are against more than one scrapper, you can't out rotate them. The fact that the team with a scrapper has an advantage that needs to be played around is a problem.

Mesmer seems to wipe the floor with scrapper...Scourge can win through attrition.........actually a few classes can deal with scrapper

Knowing my luck, its probably only in my games that people have learnt or adapted to deal with Scrapper quite well.

Please stop spreading miss information. Scrapper is direct counter to mesmer and scourge. Scrapper has reflect, projectiles destruction and mass Condi cleanse, through combo fields, elxier gun 4 and purge gyro as well as convertion to boons. Condi classes basically do nothing to scrap.

It's cc and burst dmg that can kill a scrapper. War is the counter to scrapper and reaper if a scrapper is not careful gets stunned can 1 shot.

Please stop assuming everything is misinformation for the sake of this "nerf scrapper" agenda... Its not as OP as people claim and Mesmer can wipe the floor with Scrapper for a magnitude of reasons and scourge does win via attrition with the right build.

I can do it and have been killed by it myself, it's how I KNOW its not misinformation.

(im not talkin bout condi mes either and youre more than welcome to roll a scrapper and duel me on my chrono or core mes build)

You make it out as if it's a hardcounter whichbis misinformation. I also play scrap. I have had zero problems with either class. Power or Condi. With the right build. At least the one I am using. A scourge literally does nothing. You have 2 lighting fields to spam Condi removl with the heal gyro and bulwark using mortar. You have a trait that every Condi you remove turns into a boon. You have exlier gun 4 on combo field 5 hammer to removal all Condi. You have purge gyro that removes Condi for that duration. If you feel your HP is low you can f1 f3 or heal gyro for water field combo to heal over what ever Condi dmg you have that's 3 water fields.... You have mortar 5 to heal over that.Not to mention hammer 4 to block. Hammer 3 to evade. There is absolutely zero chance a Condi scourge can kill you unless you basically do nothing and walk into all attacks. I would argue even some 1 that spams all skills on a rotation with out much knowledge and just pressing everything sequentially can survive vs a condi player infinitely. There is literally no attrition because you won't receive any damage from the first place. You literally have so much Condi removal you don't need to worry about Condi at all.

If you are dying to Condi. 1 you don't know how to use combos to remove Condi or 2. You pressed everything and wasted it all.3. you are not using the bunker build in which you do more hammer damage and deserve to be punished when not playing correctly.

On time of that every time you gain superspeed you heal. Assuming you took 3 gyros. You also get that heal.

If you watch chaith on twitch he doesn't even bring purge gyro since he's so good at evading the hit in the first place. Exlier gun and combo field is already enough for him.

Even before the update. You can take power mes as scrapper. Can go back and watch chaith's twtich videos.

Power mesmer does not have enough spike to kill a full tank scrapper.you also have a passive for barrier to stop u from dying from that. Mesmer is actually the only one class u can forcefully push off the node.

If you are not playing attention and your passive is gone. Yes a power mesmer can 1 shot you from stealth. But the moment you see one and hear the sound he's about to use mirrior blade and you dodge. And put your protection up. He won't be able to kill you. With oversheid at extra 40% dmg reduction on protection. The rest of a power mes attack isn't a problem. Esp if you mortar weakness and blinds at him.

I don't know about you but I have had zero problems with these 2 classes on 1550+ rating. This is not to say I am better but that I am certain these necros and mesmers at 1550-1700 rating know what they are doing to win since they are at the top of the board. You can really make alot of mistakes against socurge and power mes and be fine.

The only 2 classes I find you can absolutely not make a mistake is warrior and reaper. 1 daze and you are gone due to the inability to make a combo field. And the massive dps from these 2 classes can unleash on you.

That was a lot of theoretical situations but that's all it is, I think most call it "whataboutism"...

I never said hardcounter either so fabricating your own interpretations won't help either of us obtain a focused and healthy discussion.You said yourself that scrapper can onlybe beaten with CC and burst, which is exactly what Core mes and chrono can do.

My offer is there if you want to take it but I am just posting through experience of being on the givng end and recieving end.

So you agree that there's no way a scourge can kill you then with what I have given? It's not therotical.. beause it's a build you can use and I use it everyday...it's not therotical cos I am winning with it... Its on metabattle builds now...

A mesmer's cc is so little. There is the pistol which can daze. You have your reflect on hammer 2, projectile destruction on skill given by bulwark. You have skill 4 to block. The animation is so big and the sound is so big you have all the time to react. There is gravity well which you can also stun break out of if you took purge gyro. There is stun lock, which is often used before mirrior blade. But if you have played gw2 even for the past 6 months you will recongize the sound it plays and dodge even if you have zero map awareness.

You literally have every tool and more to deal with a mesmer.

I really don't care about ueling you dude. I only care about getting to rank 100 for the title. I am about 170 or something right now give or take the day. I don't see mesmer or necro to be something to be afraid of. In fact I am pretty happy scrapper is pushing mirage off because there will be more warriors and I like paying my warrior too.

Youre assuming builds and playstyles then basing you're entire argument on it.My Chrono actually runs Sw/Sh with Power Block and the chrono CC proc, tonnes of CC with F3, shield 5, Gravity well, GS/Staff 5 and Signet all combined with CS (specifically listed what I use on chrono). The only person Ive faught that beat me on this build as an Engie was some dude called MLGKronos or something, we had a decent 3 minute fight or so before he won.Please don't say "but bulwark yadda yadda", doesnt take a genius to wait it out.

Im not agreeing with anything because Im just saying what I see through experience. There is literally nothing to agree or disagree with.

Best of luck getting that title too, Im actually surprised people are still taking ranked seriously. If not this season I bet you could get it next one or the one after.

Haha you are completely ignoring scourge now that I ve told you the amount of Condi clear a scrapper has.

Yeah I want the title. It's difficult to get. It proves you can carry thru all the lower ranks. Both mechically and map awareness wise a plat 2+ player is just better at winning in this game mode. If you put a team of those vs a team of gold or silver. Plat team will win by a landslide. Gold and silver is also where you see players complain about a class cos they don't know when to use skills or to pick fights then call op. I used to do the same.

The condi clear on prot holo is actually way stronger than scrapper, because it's more available on demand. I say this as someone who's played it long before it was meta. Scrapper's condi clear is strong, without a doubt, but it's not distributed evenly throughout their entire build like it is with prot holo.

[Mammoth.1975]

Scrapper could use a buff. They don't really bring anything except superspeed and some revives on people who can move while downed. All they do is die last, and there's plenty of builds which do that while also contributing more. I'm tired of trying to carry them. If there is more than one scrapper in the match and your team has more than theirs, you're going to lose. I've heard of people winning when their team has more scrappers, but it has never happened in any game I have been in. If they have more, we win, if we have more, they win, one hundred percent of the time since patch, unless there's only one in the game. I did get killed by a scrapper one time, can't remember the name, he was scary. Had Chaith on my team a couple times and that was good, but generally, there's nothing I'm less happy to see on my team than 2+ scrappers.

[Chaith.8256]

@Mammoth.1975 said:Scrapper could use a buff. They don't really bring anything except superspeed and some revives on people who can move while downed. All they do is die last, and there's plenty of builds which do that while also contributing more. I'm tired of trying to carry them. If there is more than one scrapper in the match and your team has more than theirs, you're going to lose. I've heard of people winning when their team has more scrappers, but it has never happened in any game I have been in. If they have more, we win, if we have more, they win, one hundred percent of the time since patch, unless there's only one in the game.

There is some truth to what you're saying but bad players playing Scrapper, or an equally survivable spec (Weaver, Boonbeast, Chrono) is probably still better than those same bad players playing Revenant, Power Mesmer, or Sic-Em Soulbeast.

I know in Ranked queue I can run demolisher amulet without Sneak Gyro and not die more than once per patch. Mender's Amulet Scrapper-boys with Sneak Gyro you really are correct in that that you will need to carry them unless they are getting huge value by trolling 2-3 people.

I certainly think next balance patch we'll see tweaks to Mender's scrapper to make it's impact more teammate/support driven with its new Gyro mechanics, and away from unhealthy 1vX sustain options, even if its at the cost of doing anything else useful.

[Mammoth.1975]

That would be great. A bit of a boost to support would make them fine I think. The superspeed is amazing, I can survive some ridiculous stuff as a scourge when I'm getting superspeed, but they need to be able to contribute slightly more to teamfights than they do right now, or get a tiny boost to damage so they can do something meaningful when you +1 them. It's just such an ignorable spec right now, if you jump in on a scrapper who is getting 2v1d, all it means is you get 2v1d, then they go back to 2v1ing him. Like, I literally avoid moving to support scrappers, it's counterproductive.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Chaith.8256 said:snipswhat about switching out egun for tool kit?