So to the people that say the playing field has been "evened", i have a question.

[Anput.4620]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

But mounts made those useless, so i heard the field has been evened yet those classes can't suddenly do well in zergs while every slow class can now avoid any fight at will for free. So if roaming is dead and unviable and Zerg is the only thing now then that makes those other classes very bad, yet i hear everyone say things are fair now?

I literally can't roam except if i pick ranger with full zerk with a longbow, then i can be just little under half as effective as before, but my other specs can't do anything. So how do i use my Thieves in the TRUE WVW PLAYSTYLE of spamming AoE vs mobs when i have no aoe :/

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

If the thing you are good at has been gutted/made unplayable you might aswell be good at nothing.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I see daredevil, deadeye and even plenty of core thief builds everywhere I go when roaming. Daredevil especially is practically unkillable and uncatchable. If you're struggling, it isn't the class in this case. Grab a shortbow and l2p, bud.

That's the problem ... he's not adapting to the game. He's simply concluded mounts are bad and doesn't know a thing about how to interact with them in the game.

How does a warrior adapt to this change, or a sword weaver? Please elaborate your dismounting tactics here.

Maybe they can't ... and there isn't a problem with that. It's not a problem that every class doesn't have good access to every thing. That's why there are things called teams and people in them doing something called 'teamwork'. You should try it. It's amazing. It's how good players do things.

That is a problem because that means it is overpowered and unbalanced.

No, that's never been the case. There are lots of classes that can't do many things ... that doesn't mean they are underpowered or under balanced at all. The kind of thinking you exhibit doesn't make sense because at the end of the day, you have to make choices for ONE BUILD, so even if a class is good at something, you might not choose to do that thing. In short, you couldn't be more wrong about the abilities classes should have and how that translates into game balance.

Even if Class X was good at dismounting ... that doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that the person playing it will make a dismounting build. That's precisely the reason why every class DOESN'T need to have a way to adapt to mounts. If you want to dismount players, make good choices to do so if that's indeed such a huge thing for how you play the game.

What I really think here is that you don't want to work for dismounting players, because you simply don't like mounts. You're one of these players that thinks if we have enough 1000 page threads about it, Anet will nerf them. At least it's entertaining ... my advice is that you better get over yourself here because mounts aren't going anywhere.

There is literally no build capable of easilly dismounting people, longbow soulbeast is the only one that has a decent chance.

So what? I didn't say it would be easy. I didn't say it would be this single wonder build either. It seems to me that you underestimate how a single player should interact with a mounted one.

You shouldn't have to work to dismount someone, you should have to work to escape

That's a matter of opinion I guess. From where I sit, Anet thinks otherwise and that's what counts. Better start considering how mounts affect your play, whether you like them or not.

That is not what counts, what counts is that the mounts in its current state are degenerate design, this is not a matter of opinion, ask any PvP focused community of any game, and they would answer the same. The only people that like the mount are PvE players that now play WvW.

Just because anet implemented something that is shit doesn't mean it is not shit.

[Karnasis.6892]

@Anput.4620 said:

There is literally no build capable of easilly dismounting people, longbow soulbeast is the only one that has a decent chance.

I mean, someone had an answer to this very issue with engi blowtorch.... engi... but that doesn't start with Soulbeast....

You shouldn't have to work to dismount someone, you should have to work to escape, why are you being so backwards? This promotes non-interaction. The mount has no risk and very much all the reward. I was dancing around a warrior trying to cap something for 4 minutes, that is just OP and free.

You should, it's a sign of skill if you can, and also, not hard. Mounts still have risk, I can't attack you on amount, therefore I'm at a disadvantage vs you who have actual abilities.

Just because something is in the game doesn't mean it isn't totally broken, for an open world PvP game the current way/difficulty of dismounting is way too hard, ask any PvP focused gamer in general and they would say this. Escaping should be the thing that takes effort, not engaging. The engager promoted interaction and proceeds with action, passiveness shouldn't be rewarded, in any game like this the attacker has the advantage while the defender has the disadvantage, because that is basic game design and balance, something which you seem to not have heard of.

I don't understand why it has to be binary, why can't both escaping and engaging be difficult?

The mount in it's current form is a free out of jail ticket which means it is blatantly broken.

It's not, it is just to you.... apparently

[Obtena.7952]

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

But mounts made those useless, so i heard the field has been evened yet those classes can't suddenly do well in zergs while every slow class can now avoid any fight at will for free. So if roaming is dead and unviable and Zerg is the only thing now then that makes those other classes very bad, yet i hear everyone say things are fair now?

I literally can't roam except if i pick ranger with full zerk with a longbow, then i can be just little under half as effective as before, but my other specs can't do anything. So how do i use my Thieves in the TRUE WVW PLAYSTYLE of spamming AoE vs mobs when i have no aoe :/

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

If the thing you are good at has been gutted/made unplayable you might aswell be good at nothing.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I see daredevil, deadeye and even plenty of core thief builds everywhere I go when roaming. Daredevil especially is practically unkillable and uncatchable. If you're struggling, it isn't the class in this case. Grab a shortbow and l2p, bud.

That's the problem ... he's not adapting to the game. He's simply concluded mounts are bad and doesn't know a thing about how to interact with them in the game.

How does a warrior adapt to this change, or a sword weaver? Please elaborate your dismounting tactics here.

Maybe they can't ... and there isn't a problem with that. It's not a problem that every class doesn't have good access to every thing. That's why there are things called teams and people in them doing something called 'teamwork'. You should try it. It's amazing. It's how good players do things.

That is a problem because that means it is overpowered and unbalanced.

No, that's never been the case. There are lots of classes that can't do many things ... that doesn't mean they are underpowered or under balanced at all. The kind of thinking you exhibit doesn't make sense because at the end of the day, you have to make choices for ONE BUILD, so even if a class is good at something, you might not choose to do that thing. In short, you couldn't be more wrong about the abilities classes should have and how that translates into game balance.

Even if Class X was good at dismounting ... that doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that the person playing it will make a dismounting build. That's precisely the reason why every class DOESN'T need to have a way to adapt to mounts. If you want to dismount players, make good choices to do so if that's indeed such a huge thing for how you play the game.

What I really think here is that you don't want to work for dismounting players, because you simply don't like mounts. You're one of these players that thinks if we have enough 1000 page threads about it, Anet will nerf them. At least it's entertaining ... my advice is that you better get over yourself here because mounts aren't going anywhere.

There is literally no build capable of easilly dismounting people, longbow soulbeast is the only one that has a decent chance.

So what? I didn't say it would be easy. I didn't say it would be this single wonder build either. It seems to me that you underestimate how a single player should interact with a mounted one.

You shouldn't have to work to dismount someone, you should have to work to escape

That's a matter of opinion I guess. From where I sit, Anet thinks otherwise and that's what counts. Better start considering how mounts affect your play, whether you like them or not.

That is not what counts, what counts is that the mounts in its current state are degenerate design, this is

not

a matter of opinion, ask any PvP focused community of any game, and they would answer the same. The only people that like the mount are PvE players that now play WvW.

Everything you said there is wrong. Anet decides how the game works, not players. You don't know who likes the mount. What any PVP focused community of any game thinks is irrelevant to GW2. What is relevant is how Anet wants the game to work. False statements do not make a compelling argument for change.

Just because anet implemented something that is kitten doesn't mean it is not kitten.

Again, that's a matter of opinion, even if you say it isn't ... another thing you were wrong about.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

But mounts made those useless, so i heard the field has been evened yet those classes can't suddenly do well in zergs while every slow class can now avoid any fight at will for free. So if roaming is dead and unviable and Zerg is the only thing now then that makes those other classes very bad, yet i hear everyone say things are fair now?

I literally can't roam except if i pick ranger with full zerk with a longbow, then i can be just little under half as effective as before, but my other specs can't do anything. So how do i use my Thieves in the TRUE WVW PLAYSTYLE of spamming AoE vs mobs when i have no aoe :/

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

If the thing you are good at has been gutted/made unplayable you might aswell be good at nothing.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I see daredevil, deadeye and even plenty of core thief builds everywhere I go when roaming. Daredevil especially is practically unkillable and uncatchable. If you're struggling, it isn't the class in this case. Grab a shortbow and l2p, bud.

That's the problem ... he's not adapting to the game. He's simply concluded mounts are bad and doesn't know a thing about how to interact with them in the game.

How does a warrior adapt to this change, or a sword weaver? Please elaborate your dismounting tactics here.

Maybe they can't ... and there isn't a problem with that. It's not a problem that every class doesn't have good access to every thing. That's why there are things called teams and people in them doing something called 'teamwork'. You should try it. It's amazing. It's how good players do things.

That is a problem because that means it is overpowered and unbalanced.

No, that's never been the case. There are lots of classes that can't do many things ... that doesn't mean they are underpowered or under balanced at all. The kind of thinking you exhibit doesn't make sense because at the end of the day, you have to make choices for ONE BUILD, so even if a class is good at something, you might not choose to do that thing. In short, you couldn't be more wrong about the abilities classes should have and how that translates into game balance.

Even if Class X was good at dismounting ... that doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that the person playing it will make a dismounting build. That's precisely the reason why every class DOESN'T need to have a way to adapt to mounts. If you want to dismount players, make good choices to do so if that's indeed such a huge thing for how you play the game.

What I really think here is that you don't want to work for dismounting players, because you simply don't like mounts. You're one of these players that thinks if we have enough 1000 page threads about it, Anet will nerf them. At least it's entertaining ... my advice is that you better get over yourself here because mounts aren't going anywhere.

There is literally no build capable of easilly dismounting people, longbow soulbeast is the only one that has a decent chance.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQNAqYVl0Mh2mYpTwvJQ/ELwE2cIsE2C9+CLqRk2fKAUAA-jFSHQBA4EAMvDBo+z40H8s9HCwDAQeHBgBq8rOKBDAgAMzysMnZgZOzZOzZOzKzZOzZOzZOzZOzZWKgqEtB-w

My condi daredevil. Get the doom proc ready on your bar, make sure P/D is equipped for the sigils, then use the maul skill. Applies 4 bleed and 3 poison from doom, dismounts which procs geomancy and doom a second time for a total of 7 bleed and 6 poison stacks, all from the mount maul skill and sigil procs.

With those stats, poison does 163 damage per second per stack, bleed does 111 damage per second per stack. So that's 978 poison damage per second plus 777 bleed damage per second for a total of 1755 condi damage per second, which will dismount a player with 10972 health in 6.25 seconds, so 7 seconds to allow for condi damage applying in intervals of once per second. The stacks last between 11 and 14 seconds, so simply pressing one button on my build forces them to dismount and cleanse, or be knocked off by the condis. It really doesn't get much easier than that, and literally every class can do it.

[anduriell.6280]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

But mounts made those useless, so i heard the field has been evened yet those classes can't suddenly do well in zergs while every slow class can now avoid any fight at will for free. So if roaming is dead and unviable and Zerg is the only thing now then that makes those other classes very bad, yet i hear everyone say things are fair now?

I literally can't roam except if i pick ranger with full zerk with a longbow, then i can be just little under half as effective as before, but my other specs can't do anything. So how do i use my Thieves in the TRUE WVW PLAYSTYLE of spamming AoE vs mobs when i have no aoe :/

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

If the thing you are good at has been gutted/made unplayable you might aswell be good at nothing.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I see daredevil, deadeye and even plenty of core thief builds everywhere I go when roaming. Daredevil especially is practically unkillable and uncatchable. If you're struggling, it isn't the class in this case. Grab a shortbow and l2p, bud.

That's the problem ... he's not adapting to the game. He's simply concluded mounts are bad and doesn't know a thing about how to interact with them in the game.

How does a warrior adapt to this change, or a sword weaver? Please elaborate your dismounting tactics here.

Maybe they can't ... and there isn't a problem with that. It's not a problem that every class doesn't have good access to every thing. That's why there are things called teams and people in them doing something called 'teamwork'. You should try it. It's amazing. It's how good players do things.

That is a problem because that means it is overpowered and unbalanced.

No, that's never been the case. There are lots of classes that can't do many things ... that doesn't mean they are underpowered or under balanced at all. The kind of thinking you exhibit doesn't make sense because at the end of the day, you have to make choices for ONE BUILD, so even if a class is good at something, you might not choose to do that thing. In short, you couldn't be more wrong about the abilities classes should have and how that translates into game balance.

Even if Class X was good at dismounting ... that doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that the person playing it will make a dismounting build. That's precisely the reason why every class DOESN'T need to have a way to adapt to mounts. If you want to dismount players, make good choices to do so if that's indeed such a huge thing for how you play the game.

What I really think here is that you don't want to work for dismounting players, because you simply don't like mounts. You're one of these players that thinks if we have enough 1000 page threads about it, Anet will nerf them. At least it's entertaining ... my advice is that you better get over yourself here because mounts aren't going anywhere.

There is literally no build capable of easilly dismounting people, longbow soulbeast is the only one that has a decent chance.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQNAqYVl0Mh2mYpTwvJQ/ELwE2cIsE2C9+CLqRk2fKAUAA-jFSHQBA4EAMvDBo+z40H8s9HCwDAQeHBgBq8rOKBDAgAMzysMnZgZOzZOzZOzKzZOzZOzZOzZOzZWKgqEtB-w

My condi daredevil. Get the doom proc ready on your bar, make sure P/D is equipped for the sigils, then use the maul skill. Applies 4 bleed and 3 poison from doom, dismounts which procs geomancy and doom a second time for a total of 7 bleed and 6 poison stacks, all from the mount maul skill and sigil procs.

With those stats, poison does 163 damage per second per stack, bleed does 111 damage per second per stack. So that's 978 poison damage per second plus 777 bleed damage per second for a total of 1755 condi damage per second, which will dismount a player with 10972 health in 6.25 seconds, so 7 seconds to allow for condi damage applying in intervals of once per second. The stacks last between 11 and 14 seconds, so simply pressing one button on my build forces them to dismount and cleanse, or be knocked off by the condis. It really doesn't get much easier than that, and literally every class can do it.

And actually LB soulbeast is not that good either, but warhorn 4 + RF usually does the job.

[Karnasis.6892]

@Obtena.7952 said:

Everything you said there is wrong. Anet decides how the game works, not players. You don't know who likes the mount. What any PVP focused community of any game thinks is irrelevant to GW2. What is relevant is how Anet wants the game to work. False statements do not make a compelling argument for change.

I think he's basing all judgments after his friends left the game to play Apex as opposed to actually playing WvW. For example I can used biased data to show that only one of my guildies stopped playing as he hated mounts, and went to GW1 instead lol, but everyone else likes the mounts. My running theory was that his friends were looking for an excuse to quit gw2 anyway.

[Anput.4620]

@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

There is literally no build capable of easilly dismounting people, longbow soulbeast is the only one that has a decent chance.

I mean, someone had an answer to this very issue with engi blowtorch.... engi... but that doesn't start with Soulbeast....

Soulbeast doesn't have an easy time, it is just able to. Also, how will you ever get within 600 range of anyone with half a brain to blowtorch them?

You shouldn't have to work to dismount someone, you should have to work to escape, why are you being so backwards? This promotes non-interaction. The mount has no risk and very much all the reward. I was dancing around a warrior trying to cap something for 4 minutes, that is just OP and free.

You should, it's a sign of skill if you can, and also, not hard. Mounts still have risk, I can't attack you on amount, therefore I'm at a disadvantage vs you who have actual abilities.

You should? The one that promotes interaction or the one that wants to engage should not have to work for it, it doesn't have a reward either, you just engage battle, while the one trying to get away earns the reward of getting away. Also, mounts have zero risk, you can't attack me but that doesn't matter, you are at zero disadvantage because everything the mount offers is free, the dodges are free, the health is free, the speed is free, and if you are about to die you can just dismount so you don't get CC'd, there is zero risk because there is nothing to lose if you mount.

Just because something is in the game doesn't mean it isn't totally broken, for an open world PvP game the current way/difficulty of dismounting is way too hard, ask any PvP focused gamer in general and they would say this.

Escaping

should be the thing that takes effort, not engaging. The engager promoted interaction and proceeds with action, passiveness shouldn't be rewarded, in any game like this the attacker has the advantage while the defender has the disadvantage, because that is basic game design and balance, something which you seem to not have heard of.

I don't understand why it has to be binary, why can't both escaping and engaging be difficult?

1, Escaping is not difficult, i could escape 6 people by spamming spacebar, it is the eassiest thing possible, meanwhile, dismounting is impossible for most classes.

2, I already listed the reason here above in my comment, one promoted interaction and doesn't give any real reward, while the other promotes non-interaction and passiveness while also providing the reward of escaping, dismounting someone doesn't give anything, it doesn't win you a fight, it just starts one.

The mount in it's current form is a free out of jail ticket which means it is blatantly broken.

It's not, it is just to you.... apparently

It literally is though? I walked around a warrior, staying in the ruins cap for 4 minutes, he couldn't do anything. That is literally a free ticket to get away and do what i want.

'

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

Good to see at least one of the anti-mount brigade being honest that their problem is really "how dare Anet deprive me of victims!"

[Karnasis.6892]

@Anput.4620 said:

It literally is though? I walked around a warrior, staying in the ruins cap for 4 minutes, he couldn't do anything. That is literally a free ticket to get away and do what i want.

It is, there have been many examples, some IN THIS THREAD stating how easy they found it dismounting others. The engi example I used earlier, wasn't even me btw, that was another player saying he had no isses dismounting (but I think you are glossing over posts that don't agree with you)

Also, maybe not all classes should be good at everything, your words, not mine. So maybe warriors are good at lots of things, but dismounting enemies aren't one of them

Also, you claim mounts don't encourage interactions, but I'm in wvw right now and have been in nothing BUT fights... so I dunno what your problem is?

[Anput.4620]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

But mounts made those useless, so i heard the field has been evened yet those classes can't suddenly do well in zergs while every slow class can now avoid any fight at will for free. So if roaming is dead and unviable and Zerg is the only thing now then that makes those other classes very bad, yet i hear everyone say things are fair now?

I literally can't roam except if i pick ranger with full zerk with a longbow, then i can be just little under half as effective as before, but my other specs can't do anything. So how do i use my Thieves in the TRUE WVW PLAYSTYLE of spamming AoE vs mobs when i have no aoe :/

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

If the thing you are good at has been gutted/made unplayable you might aswell be good at nothing.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I see daredevil, deadeye and even plenty of core thief builds everywhere I go when roaming. Daredevil especially is practically unkillable and uncatchable. If you're struggling, it isn't the class in this case. Grab a shortbow and l2p, bud.

That's the problem ... he's not adapting to the game. He's simply concluded mounts are bad and doesn't know a thing about how to interact with them in the game.

How does a warrior adapt to this change, or a sword weaver? Please elaborate your dismounting tactics here.

Maybe they can't ... and there isn't a problem with that. It's not a problem that every class doesn't have good access to every thing. That's why there are things called teams and people in them doing something called 'teamwork'. You should try it. It's amazing. It's how good players do things.

That is a problem because that means it is overpowered and unbalanced.

No, that's never been the case. There are lots of classes that can't do many things ... that doesn't mean they are underpowered or under balanced at all. The kind of thinking you exhibit doesn't make sense because at the end of the day, you have to make choices for ONE BUILD, so even if a class is good at something, you might not choose to do that thing. In short, you couldn't be more wrong about the abilities classes should have and how that translates into game balance.

Even if Class X was good at dismounting ... that doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that the person playing it will make a dismounting build. That's precisely the reason why every class DOESN'T need to have a way to adapt to mounts. If you want to dismount players, make good choices to do so if that's indeed such a huge thing for how you play the game.

What I really think here is that you don't want to work for dismounting players, because you simply don't like mounts. You're one of these players that thinks if we have enough 1000 page threads about it, Anet will nerf them. At least it's entertaining ... my advice is that you better get over yourself here because mounts aren't going anywhere.

There is literally no build capable of easilly dismounting people, longbow soulbeast is the only one that has a decent chance.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQNAqYVl0Mh2mYpTwvJQ/ELwE2cIsE2C9+CLqRk2fKAUAA-jFSHQBA4EAMvDBo+z40H8s9HCwDAQeHBgBq8rOKBDAgAMzysMnZgZOzZOzZOzKzZOzZOzZOzZOzZWKgqEtB-w

My condi daredevil. Get the doom proc ready on your bar, make sure P/D is equipped for the sigils, then use the maul skill. Applies 4 bleed and 3 poison from doom, dismounts which procs geomancy and doom a second time for a total of 7 bleed and 6 poison stacks, all from the mount maul skill and sigil procs.

With those stats, poison does 163 damage per second per stack, bleed does 111 damage per second per stack. So that's 978 poison damage per second plus 777 bleed damage per second for a total of 1755 condi damage per second, which will dismount a player with 10972 health in 6.25 seconds, so 7 seconds to allow for condi damage applying in intervals of once per second. The stacks last between 11 and 14 seconds, so simply pressing one button on my build forces them to dismount and cleanse, or be knocked off by the condis. It really doesn't get much easier than that, and literally every class can do it.

So let's say, you are roaming, taking a sentry in enemy territory, you see a mounted enemy in the distance, they see you and start to turn around, now tell me how you would engage that.

@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

Everything you said there is wrong. Anet decides how the game works, not players. You don't know who likes the mount. What any PVP focused community of any game thinks is irrelevant to GW2. What is relevant is how Anet wants the game to work. False statements do not make a compelling argument for change.

I think he's basing all judgments after his friends left the game to play Apex as opposed to actually playing WvW. For example I can used biased data to show that only one of my guildies stopped playing as he hated mounts, and went to GW1 instead lol, but everyone else likes the mounts. My running theory was that his friends were looking for an excuse to quit gw2 anyway.

Aren't you a PvE player? You ment your PvE guild? The person in my WvW guild says he has met no one pro-mounts yet, nor in my roaming guild, where many people quit. I have tried the WvW, i could get 1 fight in an evening of playing my Engie, 1 fight with my Ele, 2 with my Thief and a few with my Soulbeast, the amount of times i dismounted someone there was maybe twice in total, where both where on Soulbeast too. That is hours of playtime to get a fight.

These friends of mine loved the game, they roamed almost every day, why would they need an excuse to quit?

[Anput.4620]

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:Good to see at least one of the anti-mount brigade being honest that their problem is really "how dare Anet deprive me of victims!"

Oh no i want to kill people in a PvP mode, how dare i. Meanwhile you spam yellow BS and get 20x the lootbags from those poor victims.

[Anput.4620]

@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

It literally is though? I walked around a warrior, staying in the ruins cap for 4 minutes, he couldn't do anything. That is literally a free ticket to get away and do what i want.

It is, there have been many examples, some IN THIS THREAD stating how easy they found it dismounting others. The engi example I used earlier, wasn't even me btw, that was another player saying he had no isses dismounting (but I think you are glossing over posts that don't agree with you)

Also, maybe not all classes should be good at everything, your words, not mine. So maybe warriors are good at lots of things, but dismounting enemies aren't one of them

Also, you claim mounts don't encourage interactions, but I'm in wvw right now and have been in nothing BUT fights... so I dunno what your problem is?

You won't get close to the enemy to use that though, there is literally no way to catch up with a mounted player while unmounted, or at all in their territory, if you know a way then tell me.

Not being able to dismount prevents these classes from doing what they are good at, so yes, they should be able to dismount people, any class should really. There is no way that everything designed without mounts in mind for 6 years now is working as intended. Balance has been drastically impacted so why do you act like this is the standard intended design and balance by a gimmicky feature introduced into a mode/game not made for it?

All i have seen in WvW is people walking past each other, and spamming space 3 times as soon as someone attacks their mount, instead of fighting back.

[Karnasis.6892]

@Anput.4620 said:

I think he's basing all judgments after his friends left the game to play Apex as opposed to actually playing WvW. For example I can used biased data to show that only one of my guildies stopped playing as he hated mounts, and went to GW1 instead lol, but everyone else likes the mounts. My running theory was that his friends were looking for an excuse to quit gw2 anyway.

Aren't you a PvE player? You ment your PvE guild? The person in my WvW guild says he has met no one pro-mounts yet, nor in my roaming guild, where many people quit. I have tried the WvW, i could get 1 fight in an evening of playing my Engie, 1 fight with my Ele, 2 with my Thief and a few with my Soulbeast, the amount of times i dismounted someone there was maybe twice in total, where both where on Soulbeast too. That is hours of playtime to get a fight.

These friends of mine loved the game, they roamed almost every day, why would they need an excuse to quit?

Nope, wvw guild, we have ONE PvE night a week, and we're lucky if we get a full party for that. But routinely get 30+ folks on rally nights and have active roaming during non rally times. We lost a whole one person because of mounts, the rest of us like it. So.... again sounds like a you problem

The whole point of needing an excuse is so they don't feel bad leaving a game they are sick off but sunk so much time/resources into it (Sunken costs fallacy after all)

Again, other people dismount fine, it sounds like a you problem

[Anput.4620]

@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

I think he's basing all judgments after his friends left the game to play Apex as opposed to actually playing WvW. For example I can used biased data to show that only one of my guildies stopped playing as he hated mounts, and went to GW1 instead lol, but everyone else likes the mounts. My running theory was that his friends were looking for an excuse to quit gw2 anyway.

Aren't you a PvE player? You ment your PvE guild? The person in my WvW guild says he has met no one pro-mounts yet, nor in my roaming guild, where many people quit. I have tried the WvW, i could get 1 fight in an evening of playing my Engie, 1 fight with my Ele, 2 with my Thief and a few with my Soulbeast, the amount of times i dismounted someone there was maybe twice in total, where both where on Soulbeast too. That is hours of playtime to get a fight.

These friends of mine loved the game, they roamed almost every day, why would they need an excuse to quit?

Nope, wvw guild, we have ONE PvE night a week, and we're lucky if we get a full party for that. But routinely get 30+ folks on rally nights and have active roaming during non rally times. We lost a whole one person because of mounts, the rest of us like it. So.... again sounds like a you problem

The whole point of needing an excuse is so they don't feel bad leaving a game they are sick off but sunk so much time/resources into it (Sunken costs fallacy after all)

Again, other people dismount fine, it sounds like a you problem

So you are saying only i dislike the mounts and the anecdotal evidence you provided is a perfect statistic that the entirety of the WvW community loves the mount?

These people weren't sick of the game, they played it everyday and had fun, i haven't seen a roamer that focuses on fights that likes the mount yet.

To place choice of engagement on the defender is flawed because it allows for a situation where things aren't happening, when your opponent can always choose to not play the game then how do you even play the game?

Before the mount everyone was able to play the game just fine, now it has changed the game in such a way that it is unplayable for some people, why not have the situation where everyone was able to play and do their thing? This wasn't a change for the dedicated WvW players, it was a change for the casuals/PvE players.

[Karnasis.6892]

@"Anput.4620" said:

These people weren't sick of the game, they played it everyday and had fun, i haven't seen a roamer that focuses on fights that likes the mount yet.

Then that's their problem, WvW isn't just about fights, as much as you want it to be. WvW is lots of things, PvP... with PvE elements, tactical scouting. Small scale fights might be fun for you but in the grand scheme of WvW, pretty irrelevent.

No, but you are trying to say all roamers hate mounts and I told you you were wrong

"Before the mount everyone was able to play the game just fine, now it has changed the game in such a way that it is unplayable for some people, why not have the situation where everyone was able to play and do their thing? This wasn't a change for the dedicated WvW players, it was a change for the casuals/PvE players."

It wasn't, it was an attempt to shake up WvW. A gamemode that hasn't changed much over the years. It's just not the change people "wanted". If we lose some folks, I'm okay with that since we also gained people from it. It happens in MMO's. You either adapt, or you quit.

[Anput.4620]

@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

These people weren't sick of the game, they played it everyday and had fun, i haven't seen a roamer that focuses on fights that likes the mount yet.

Then that's their problem, WvW isn't just about fights, as much as you want it to be. WvW is lots of things, PvP... with PvE elements, tactical scouting. Small scale fights might be fun for you but in the grand scheme of WvW, pretty irrelevent.

No, but you are trying to say all roamers hate mounts and I told you you were wrong

I said fight focused roamers. I am not talking about the core rangers spamming 1 vs a camp.

Can you name 1 good open world PvP game with a mechanic like this? For example, the only BR game i know with mounts instadismounts you when hit, the mount has zero evades and a cast time.

I don't think most open world PvP games even have mounts, agressing is also always rewarded.

WvW is a sandbox mode, winning gives nothing. Restricting what people can and can't do is just bad. Why does it seem like the pro mount people just want to player vs door? The GvG blob people also don't use mounts in their fights.

[Karnasis.6892]

@Anput.4620 said:

@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

These people weren't sick of the game, they played it everyday and had fun, i haven't seen a roamer that focuses on fights that likes the mount yet.

Then that's their problem, WvW isn't just about fights, as much as you want it to be. WvW is lots of things, PvP... with PvE elements, tactical scouting. Small scale fights might be fun for you but in the grand scheme of WvW, pretty irrelevent.

No, but you are trying to say all roamers hate mounts and I told you you were wrong

I said fight focused roamers. I am not talking about the core rangers spamming 1 vs a camp.

Can you name 1 good open world PvP game with a mechanic like this? For example, the only BR game i know with mounts instadismounts you when hit, the mount has zero evades and a cast time.

I don't think most open world PvP games even have mounts, agressing is also always rewarded.

WvW is a sandbox mode, winning gives nothing. Restricting what people can and can't do is just bad. Why does it seem like the pro mount people just want to player vs door? The GvG blob people also don't use mounts in their fights.

It's not a sandbox mode, as you can't do anything you want. This isn't GTA online. Also, fight focused roamers, no wonder you aren't having fun.... if that's all you do then what's the point of WvW for you, could just play PvP (since while objective based has TONS of fights)

Battle Royale games and WvW are two different genres, using one as an example over the other doesn't help your case.

[coro.3176]

I propose a challenge to anyone who thinks dismounts are in a good state right now:

• we both start mounted outside a southern tower in one of the borderlands
• we both start at the same spot, within 100 range of each other.
• If I can make it to the other southern tower, I win. If you manage to dismount me and catch up, you win.
• use any class except soulbeast

sound good?

*I say "dismount and catch up" because I don't think it counts if you dismount with condi, but the other player is 5000 units away from you by the time they actually are dismounted. Then they just cleanse to break combat and remount.

[Obtena.7952]

@Anput.4620 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

But mounts made those useless, so i heard the field has been evened yet those classes can't suddenly do well in zergs while every slow class can now avoid any fight at will for free. So if roaming is dead and unviable and Zerg is the only thing now then that makes those other classes very bad, yet i hear everyone say things are fair now?

I literally can't roam except if i pick ranger with full zerk with a longbow, then i can be just little under half as effective as before, but my other specs can't do anything. So how do i use my Thieves in the TRUE WVW PLAYSTYLE of spamming AoE vs mobs when i have no aoe :/

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

If the thing you are good at has been gutted/made unplayable you might aswell be good at nothing.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I see daredevil, deadeye and even plenty of core thief builds everywhere I go when roaming. Daredevil especially is practically unkillable and uncatchable. If you're struggling, it isn't the class in this case. Grab a shortbow and l2p, bud.

That's the problem ... he's not adapting to the game. He's simply concluded mounts are bad and doesn't know a thing about how to interact with them in the game.

How does a warrior adapt to this change, or a sword weaver? Please elaborate your dismounting tactics here.

Maybe they can't ... and there isn't a problem with that. It's not a problem that every class doesn't have good access to every thing. That's why there are things called teams and people in them doing something called 'teamwork'. You should try it. It's amazing. It's how good players do things.

That is a problem because that means it is overpowered and unbalanced.

No, that's never been the case. There are lots of classes that can't do many things ... that doesn't mean they are underpowered or under balanced at all. The kind of thinking you exhibit doesn't make sense because at the end of the day, you have to make choices for ONE BUILD, so even if a class is good at something, you might not choose to do that thing. In short, you couldn't be more wrong about the abilities classes should have and how that translates into game balance.

Even if Class X was good at dismounting ... that doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that the person playing it will make a dismounting build. That's precisely the reason why every class DOESN'T need to have a way to adapt to mounts. If you want to dismount players, make good choices to do so if that's indeed such a huge thing for how you play the game.

What I really think here is that you don't want to work for dismounting players, because you simply don't like mounts. You're one of these players that thinks if we have enough 1000 page threads about it, Anet will nerf them. At least it's entertaining ... my advice is that you better get over yourself here because mounts aren't going anywhere.

There is literally no build capable of easilly dismounting people, longbow soulbeast is the only one that has a decent chance.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQNAqYVl0Mh2mYpTwvJQ/ELwE2cIsE2C9+CLqRk2fKAUAA-jFSHQBA4EAMvDBo+z40H8s9HCwDAQeHBgBq8rOKBDAgAMzysMnZgZOzZOzZOzKzZOzZOzZOzZOzZWKgqEtB-w

My condi daredevil. Get the doom proc ready on your bar, make sure P/D is equipped for the sigils, then use the maul skill. Applies 4 bleed and 3 poison from doom, dismounts which procs geomancy and doom a second time for a total of 7 bleed and 6 poison stacks, all from the mount maul skill and sigil procs.

With those stats, poison does 163 damage per second per stack, bleed does 111 damage per second per stack. So that's 978 poison damage per second plus 777 bleed damage per second for a total of 1755 condi damage per second, which will dismount a player with 10972 health in 6.25 seconds, so 7 seconds to allow for condi damage applying in intervals of once per second. The stacks last between 11 and 14 seconds, so simply pressing one button on my build forces them to dismount and cleanse, or be knocked off by the condis. It really doesn't get much easier than that, and literally every class can do it.

So let's say, you are roaming, taking a sentry in enemy territory, you see a mounted enemy in the distance, they see you and start to turn around, now tell me how you would engage that.

I wouldn't because I'm not making builds to do that kind of thing. There are many builds that do many things in WvW, and you have to choose which ones you want to use. Again, if you want to make a build to engage mounted players in the scenario you describe, you can. Many people have told you how in the thread.

@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

Everything you said there is wrong. Anet decides how the game works, not players. You don't know who likes the mount. What any PVP focused community of any game thinks is irrelevant to GW2. What is relevant is how Anet wants the game to work. False statements do not make a compelling argument for change.

I think he's basing all judgments after his friends left the game to play Apex as opposed to actually playing WvW. For example I can used biased data to show that only one of my guildies stopped playing as he hated mounts, and went to GW1 instead lol, but everyone else likes the mounts. My running theory was that his friends were looking for an excuse to quit gw2 anyway.

Aren't you a PvE player? You ment your PvE guild? The person in my WvW guild says he has met no one pro-mounts yet, nor in my roaming guild, where many people quit. I have tried the WvW, i could get 1 fight in an evening of playing my Engie, 1 fight with my Ele, 2 with my Thief and a few with my Soulbeast, the amount of times i dismounted someone there was maybe twice in total, where both where on Soulbeast too. That is hours of playtime to get a fight.

These friends of mine loved the game, they roamed almost every day, why would they need an excuse to quit?

Sounds to me like they liked roaming more than they loved the game, otherwise they wouldn't have quit. I think the core problem here is that just because you could do a thing in WvW doesn't mean that's what Anet intended players to do in WvW. I'm impressed by how hard people push to maintain this 'roaming PVP' mentality in WvW ... when they can do it in PvP pretty much on demand in an endless stream.

But it's not even that ... what I really think of you and your criticism ... UMADBRO because no more easy stealth kills. Just a hunch:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/48396/what-is-the-deadeye-wvw-sniper-build

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Anput.4620 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

But mounts made those useless, so i heard the field has been evened yet those classes can't suddenly do well in zergs while every slow class can now avoid any fight at will for free. So if roaming is dead and unviable and Zerg is the only thing now then that makes those other classes very bad, yet i hear everyone say things are fair now?

I literally can't roam except if i pick ranger with full zerk with a longbow, then i can be just little under half as effective as before, but my other specs can't do anything. So how do i use my Thieves in the TRUE WVW PLAYSTYLE of spamming AoE vs mobs when i have no aoe :/

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

If the thing you are good at has been gutted/made unplayable you might aswell be good at nothing.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I see daredevil, deadeye and even plenty of core thief builds everywhere I go when roaming. Daredevil especially is practically unkillable and uncatchable. If you're struggling, it isn't the class in this case. Grab a shortbow and l2p, bud.

That's the problem ... he's not adapting to the game. He's simply concluded mounts are bad and doesn't know a thing about how to interact with them in the game.

How does a warrior adapt to this change, or a sword weaver? Please elaborate your dismounting tactics here.

Maybe they can't ... and there isn't a problem with that. It's not a problem that every class doesn't have good access to every thing. That's why there are things called teams and people in them doing something called 'teamwork'. You should try it. It's amazing. It's how good players do things.

That is a problem because that means it is overpowered and unbalanced.

No, that's never been the case. There are lots of classes that can't do many things ... that doesn't mean they are underpowered or under balanced at all. The kind of thinking you exhibit doesn't make sense because at the end of the day, you have to make choices for ONE BUILD, so even if a class is good at something, you might not choose to do that thing. In short, you couldn't be more wrong about the abilities classes should have and how that translates into game balance.

Even if Class X was good at dismounting ... that doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that the person playing it will make a dismounting build. That's precisely the reason why every class DOESN'T need to have a way to adapt to mounts. If you want to dismount players, make good choices to do so if that's indeed such a huge thing for how you play the game.

What I really think here is that you don't want to work for dismounting players, because you simply don't like mounts. You're one of these players that thinks if we have enough 1000 page threads about it, Anet will nerf them. At least it's entertaining ... my advice is that you better get over yourself here because mounts aren't going anywhere.

There is literally no build capable of easilly dismounting people, longbow soulbeast is the only one that has a decent chance.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQNAqYVl0Mh2mYpTwvJQ/ELwE2cIsE2C9+CLqRk2fKAUAA-jFSHQBA4EAMvDBo+z40H8s9HCwDAQeHBgBq8rOKBDAgAMzysMnZgZOzZOzZOzKzZOzZOzZOzZOzZWKgqEtB-w

My condi daredevil. Get the doom proc ready on your bar, make sure P/D is equipped for the sigils, then use the maul skill. Applies 4 bleed and 3 poison from doom, dismounts which procs geomancy and doom a second time for a total of 7 bleed and 6 poison stacks, all from the mount maul skill and sigil procs.

With those stats, poison does 163 damage per second per stack, bleed does 111 damage per second per stack. So that's 978 poison damage per second plus 777 bleed damage per second for a total of 1755 condi damage per second, which will dismount a player with 10972 health in 6.25 seconds, so 7 seconds to allow for condi damage applying in intervals of once per second. The stacks last between 11 and 14 seconds, so simply pressing one button on my build forces them to dismount and cleanse, or be knocked off by the condis. It really doesn't get much easier than that, and literally every class can do it.

So let's say, you are roaming, taking a sentry in enemy territory, you see a mounted enemy in the distance, they see you and start to turn around, now tell me how you would engage that.

Well, it depends if they turn towards me or away from me for a start. If they run away and they're already at distance, they're likely not worth bothering with and never were even before mounts were implemented. This is why I tend to fight over objectives, as more people will come if you're attacking or defending something, and the mounts thing is a non issue. Assuming they're running at me, what I do depends on if I can kill the sentry before they get to me or not.

Usually I'm on P/D for sentries as it uses the least cooldowns to kill them, this would mean weapon swap is off cooldown while I'm fighting. If I kill the sentry before they get to me I'll place two needle traps on top of each other for stealth (trapper runes ftw), swap to shortbow, sneak attack for immob (mount is immune to CC, but the duration stacks for when they're dismounted) and get ready to dodge their maul. Since the maul skill isn't a dodge, the traps force a dismount, between the traps and the sneak attack I've applied 12.5 seconds of immob which is definitely more time than it takes me to dismount them. So I spam choking gas while they're knocked down and immobilised and laugh maniacally as they get daze locked. If they dismount at range, I stealth with shadow trap, swap to shortbow, sneak attack for immob, spam choking gas, and laugh maniacally as they get daze locked. If either of these don't work, I have a second spike from stealing into weapon swap to P/D for geomancy and doom procs, or I can use my now superior mobility to escape. Also while laughing maniacally, as what would be the fun if I didn't.

[Karnasis.6892]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Well, it depends if they turn towards me or away from me for a start. If they run away and they're already at distance, they're likely not worth bothering with and never were even before mounts were implemented. This is why I tend to fight over objectives, as more people will come if you're attacking or defending something, and the mounts thing is a non issue. Assuming they're running at me, what I do depends on if I can kill the sentry before they get to me or not.

Usually I'm on P/D for sentries as it uses the least cooldowns to kill them, this would mean weapon swap is off cooldown while I'm fighting. If I kill the sentry before they get to me I'll place two needle traps on to of each other for stealth (trapper runes ftw), swap to shortbow, sneak attack for immob (mount is immune to CC, but the duration stacks for when they're dismounted) and get ready to dodge their maul. Since the maul skill isn't a dodge, the traps force a dismount, between the traps and the sneak attack I've applied 12.5 seconds of immob which is definitely less time than it takes me to dismount them. So I spam choking gas while they're knocked down and immobilised and laugh maniacally as they get daze locked. If they dismount at range, I stealth with shadow trap, swap to shortbow, sneak attack for immob, spam choking gas, and laugh maniacally as they get daze locked. If either of these don't work, I have a second spike from stealing into weapon swap to P/D for geomancy and doom procs, or I can use my now superior mobility to escape. Also while laughing maniacally, as what would be the fun if I didn't.

I've tried to convince him about fighting over objectives in another thread... he didn't bite.

Solid response though :)

[Kovu.7560]

@"coro.3176" said:I propose a challenge to anyone who thinks dismounts are in a good state right now:

• we both start mounted outside a southern tower in one of the borderlands
• we both start at the same spot, within 100 range of each other.
• If I can make it to the other southern tower, I win. If you manage to dismount me and catch up, you win.
• use any class except soulbeast

sound good?

*I say "dismount and catch up" because I don't think it counts if you dismount with condi, but the other player is 5000 units away from you by the time they actually are dismounted. Then they just cleanse to break combat and remount.

-hops on thief or teleport rev-Sure.

And, I mean, what's wrong with using condis to dismount? You can mount up and catch up fairly quickly whilst they're stunned from the demount and breaking combat.

~ Kovu

[Obtena.7952]

@"coro.3176" said:I propose a challenge to anyone who thinks dismounts are in a good state right now:

• we both start mounted outside a southern tower in one of the borderlands
• we both start at the same spot, within 100 range of each other.
• If I can make it to the other southern tower, I win. If you manage to dismount me and catch up, you win.
• use any class except soulbeast

sound good?

*I say "dismount and catch up" because I don't think it counts if you dismount with condi, but the other player is 5000 units away from you by the time they actually are dismounted. Then they just cleanse to break combat and remount.

We have to be careful here. If Anet's intention is exactly what has been delivered, then there isn't anything 'good' or 'bad' state. It's what is intended. If it's not exact, we know Anet will change it with hopes it's closer to what they intended. What we think as players is 'good' or 'bad' is completely irrelevant, because we don't know the intentions, or if we do, they are so vague and open to interpretation in most cases.

For all we know, in that scenario, Anet is sitting there and saying "Yes, exactly, that's what we want mounts to do for players" and it's not an unreasonable thing they would think that, given the way the mount is designed and what is necessary for players to interact with it.

Completely speculation here but ... I don't think Anet wants people to have 1 vs. 1 or 1 vs X encounters in transit in WvW. I can only guess it's because it's related to the spirit or theme of what WvW is about.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@"Obtena.7952" said:But it's not even that ... what I really think of you and your criticism ... UMADBRO because no more easy stealth kills. Just a hunch:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/48396/what-is-the-deadeye-wvw-sniper-build

As much as the deadeye nerf annoyed me, as it once again hits builds that weren't abusing permastealth disproportionately hard, I'm totally fine with permastealth DE not being a thing either.

[Anput.4620]

@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Karnasis.6892 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

These people weren't sick of the game, they played it everyday and had fun, i haven't seen a roamer that focuses on fights that likes the mount yet.

Then that's their problem, WvW isn't just about fights, as much as you want it to be. WvW is lots of things, PvP... with PvE elements, tactical scouting. Small scale fights might be fun for you but in the grand scheme of WvW, pretty irrelevent.

No, but you are trying to say all roamers hate mounts and I told you you were wrong

I said fight focused roamers. I am not talking about the core rangers spamming 1 vs a camp.

Can you name 1 good open world PvP game with a mechanic like this? For example, the only BR game i know with mounts instadismounts you when hit, the mount has zero evades and a cast time.

I don't think most open world PvP games even have mounts, agressing is also always rewarded.

WvW is a sandbox mode, winning gives nothing. Restricting what people can and can't do is just bad. Why does it seem like the pro mount people just want to player vs door? The GvG blob people also don't use mounts in their fights.

It's not a sandbox mode, as you can't do anything you want. This isn't GTA online. Also, fight focused roamers, no wonder you aren't having fun.... if that's all you do then what's the point of WvW for you, could just play PvP (since while objective based has TONS of fights)

Battle Royale games and WvW are two different genres, using one as an example over the other doesn't help your case.

It is a sandbox mode, you can do whatever you want, there is no reward for winning either, i don't like PvP because i play solo, i also don't like objective-based gameplay when playing solo. I play MOBA's for that.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"coro.3176" said:I propose a challenge to anyone who thinks dismounts are in a good state right now:

• we both start mounted outside a southern tower in one of the borderlands
• we both start at the same spot, within 100 range of each other.
• If I can make it to the other southern tower, I win. If you manage to dismount me and catch up, you win.
• use any class except soulbeast

sound good?

*I say "dismount and catch up" because I don't think it counts if you dismount with condi, but the other player is 5000 units away from you by the time they actually are dismounted. Then they just cleanse to break combat and remount.

We have to be careful here. If Anet's intention is exactly what has been delivered, then there isn't anything 'good' or 'bad' state. It's what is intended. If it's not exact, we know Anet will change it with hopes it's closer to what they intended. What we think as players is 'good' or 'bad' is completely irrelevant, because we don't know the intentions, or if we do, they are so vague and open to interpretation in most cases.

For all we know, in that scenario, Anet is sitting there and saying "Yes, exactly, that's what we want mounts to do for players" and it's not an unreasonable thing they would think that, given the way the mount is designed and what is necessary for players to interact with it.

Completely speculation here but ... I don't think Anet wants people to have 1 vs. 1 or 1 vs X encounters in transit in WvW. I can only guess it's because it's related to the spirit or theme of what WvW is about.

If what is intended is shit design from a open world PvP game viewpoint then it is still shit even though intended?

Spirit or theme? WvW is literally a sanbox mode where winning doesn't get you jack, heck, it used to give nothing and only cost a long time ago.

Why would they not want that? Any MMO open world PvP mode has it, also, there is a reason there are smaller objectives to take too, i am sure Anet didn't intend camps to be taken by 40 people. You can also have both playstyles be viable, like before.

I am sure the spirit of WvW is player versus player combat, no doubt about that.