<Suggestion> open voice options for gender variant players

[Zexanima.7851]

@"ZaeraD.7280"

I can think of a couple of ways they could go about it. The most viable I can think of is that they could add a voice adjustment filter to the game that you set the parameters of at character creation then all voice lines are just fed through that. It might not be perfect but you could at least adjust it close enough.This already happens when you consume something like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Embiggening_Tonic I don't see why they couldn't make this a dynamic option the player could adjust at character creation.

[kharmin.7683]

@Zexanima.7851 said:I don't see why they couldn't make this a dynamic option the player could adjust at character creation.

As was posited before; the old code probably can't be modified to do this at this point and even so, is it worth their time/resources to do it.

[Zexanima.7851]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:I don't see why they couldn't make this a dynamic option the player could adjust at character creation.

As was posited before; the old code probably can't be modified to do this at this point and even so, is it worth their time/resources to do it.

If their old code is so archaic and closely coupled they can't go back and make changes like this then I would say they need to spend the time to refactor their code. No code should ever be 'unmodifiable', that isn't an excuse. It would be worth their time/resources, it would improve the player experience and their codebase.

On a side note, and not taking a jab at you in particular @kharmin.7683 I promise, but I'm soooo tired of hearing people give the 'old code' excuse for anet like that's acceptable. As someone who works in the field if we had this issue the next epic on our board would be to "Fix old bad code so we can implement the feature".

[derd.6413]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:I don't see why they couldn't make this a dynamic option the player could adjust at character creation.

As was posited before; the old code probably can't be modified to do this at this point and even so, is it worth their time/resources to do it.

If their old code is so archaic and closely coupled they can't go back and make changes like this then I would say they need to spend the time to refactor their code. No code should ever be 'unmodifiable', that isn't an excuse. It would be worth their time/resources, it would improve the player experience and their codebase.

On a side note, and not taking a jab at you in particular @kharmin.7683 I promise, but I'm soooo tired of hearing people give the 'old code' excuse for anet like that's acceptable. As someone who works in the field if we had this issue the next epic on our board would be to "Fix old bad code so we can implement the feature".

it's less of "old code makes it impossible" and more "old code makes it alot harder then it's actually worth"

[Zexanima.7851]

@derd.6413 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:I don't see why they couldn't make this a dynamic option the player could adjust at character creation.

As was posited before; the old code probably can't be modified to do this at this point and even so, is it worth their time/resources to do it.

If their old code is so archaic and closely coupled they can't go back and make changes like this then I would say they need to spend the time to refactor their code. No code should ever be 'unmodifiable', that isn't an excuse. It would be worth their time/resources, it would improve the player experience and their codebase.

On a side note, and not taking a jab at you in particular @kharmin.7683 I promise, but I'm soooo tired of hearing people give the 'old code' excuse for anet like that's acceptable. As someone who works in the field if we had this issue the next epic on our board would be to "Fix old bad code so we can implement the feature".

it's less of "old code makes it impossible" and more "old code makes it alot harder then it's actually worth"

It's NEVER not worth going back and fixing old code. Tech debt is a compounding problem that can sink a company if they let it go unchecked.

[sorudo.9054]

@Gehenna.3625 said:As much as I don't have a problem with the option itself, the question is always one of cost versus benefit. I think that it's fair to state that there are not many transgender gamers and so you are asking them to put in resources that will have very limited usage. It's like those people who keep asking for new races. Admittedly I suspect that allowing people to switch voice overs will be less work than a new race with things like new starter cities / areas and remodeling all the skins around new character models, but I do believe that it will take at least some effort and resources that they would prefer to spend on other things.

Again, I'm not against it but I just don't rate your chances very high of them actually spending resources on something that will benefit only a handful of players.

although i agree with some of your statements i have to disagree about the gamers part.many and i really mean many transgenders are gamers, this is mainly because the only way they can express themselves without any discrimination is by making their opposite gender self.there are, in fact, more transgenders that never told anyone because of fear, the only way to at least cope with this fear is by finding some kind of extension of their true self.

i see why the OP wants this but we need to be realistic, it is possible (in theory) to let ppl choose a gender voice since their text don't really change.the problem lies within the source code itself, can they add a choice of gender voice or is it to hard coded for them to change?if it's the former it becomes a low cost change, the later requires way to much time and effort so the cost VS benefit becomes not with the effort.

[Genuinetheo.6591]

I just want to put it out there that you are easily the best representation of yourself. Trying to force the representation of you onto a character does not represent you as well as you can represent yourself by... just being yourself. People will include you in activities because of how you represent yourself usually, and not how your fictional character represents you... for you.

As much as we all want something to represent us for ourselves, there's really no other way to do it. That's why humanity communicates with each other: for representation and friendships.

But I'm totally on board with having physical access to different voices. I think the idea here, however, is that the voice is tied to the race in particular. So that it feels somewhat natural to represent that race in the video game.

[Algreg.3629]

You are not your character, one might say that is the whole idea of an rpg (as watered down as they are as computer games). Anyway, if that addition would make you happy, sure, why not. That whole ideology is really convoluted though. You say you are transgender, so you aspire to transition to the gender you are not biologically determined by. Yet you refer to yourself as non-binary, so you are rejecting the idea of two distinct genders... I mean, can´t you just be an individual that gives a damn about the stereotypes ascribed to your biological gender? Something that is a pretty common idea since at least, I don´t know, Gen X? But I guess the people furthering identity politics are not so keen on dealing with individuals, pseudo-tribes are probably much easier to control and manipulate.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Zexanima.7851 said:@"ZaeraD.7280"

I can think of a couple of ways they could go about it. The most viable I can think of is that they could add a voice adjustment filter to the game that you set the parameters of at character creation then all voice lines are just fed through that. It might not be perfect but you could at least adjust it close enough.This already happens when you consume something like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Embiggening_Tonic I don't see why they couldn't make this a dynamic option the player could adjust at character creation.

I did not know that tonic did that as I have had my own voice option off since they introduced it. That's neat.

Ok, taking OP at their word (no reason not to now as I can't see any good reason not to unless it turns to clear trolling) if they already have some of the tech in place, why not as that would be another option for everybody anyway.

And if I could turn the voice on and not constantly hear my Sylvari Mesmer being snarky British in my game with no Briton, that would be great.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:

@"Leo G.4501" said:I'd say the difference between the real world and the fantasy world is that transgender procedures are flawless.

If you were going to transition in the real world to represent your desired gender, wouldn't you not only change your body's shape but also your voice?

That being, the option for voice customization likely comes with limitations due to the overall cost of voiceovers and UI constraints. I personally would like to see cross-racial voice options too. If you're going to cross that road, might as well cross all the lanes rather than half of one lane.

You're assuming a binary gender identity (just like the vast majority of society does, as is, visible in this thread). OP says they're non-binary.

Quite a few people in my life are non-binary, and transitioning is very varied among them. There are

many

components to a transition, and the end point can look very different for different people.

Having thought more about it I fear that if this was enabled more people would use it as a joke than seriously, with a risk of it being used as a tool to create specifically transphobic "jokes" in streams/on youtube.

At the risk of being slightly off-topic, transition is the process of moving/changing from point/state A to point/state B. The process is, by definition, ...binary.

And more on topic, I wish good luck to OP with their request as I don't see that feature affecting the game negatively in any way. I just don't see it happening any time soon since even character creation features that would be affecting a much wider audience than this, have been ignored as well.

[Zexanima.7851]

@"derd.6413" said:this whole thread made me realize just how little i care about genders.what does it matter outside of medical environments?

Psychological impact on the people. Your mind is just as important if not more than the body, as I'm sure you know. Nobody has unlimited mental fortitude and society tends tends to chip away at people with the little things. Unfortunately in the real world it isn't always possible "git gud", nor is it a good idea to ignore glaring societal problems. Sometimes the culture is the issue and it has to be changed because if we don't strive for change things wont get better, society wont advance.

TL;DRIt matters because it matters to others and we don't live in a vacuum.

[coso.9173]

I'd personally love if we could choose from a range of voices like in other games. I don't see it happening though, since gw2 is very dialogue heavy.

[b k.1648]

It's a little more nuanced than that, but if you have the view that it's all about a choice between exactly male and exactly female, it's easy to come to that conclusion.

Of course, from an asset creation point of view, it can be a huge amount of work to do something in between. You can do appearance sliders, change hairstyles etc. without too much hassle, but voices is hard.

I'd love to have a different VA for my characters. I mostly play female charr, which are by far my favourite race design of any RPG I've played. But I find the voice doesn't really sound right, and with the older faces she sounds really off. It's not just the pitch, but the delivery.

The problem is, fixing that by adding another VA means re-recording every PC line in the game in four languages. That's just on the international version, and that's just female charr. Multiply that by 10 for the other races and then add in the Chinese version as well...

That's a huge extra cost, and then you've only got one extra voice per race/gender setting. And that's only going to make some players happy. Some won't like the new option either, most won't care, and almost no new players will be gained from this whole exercise because voice options don't sell games.

Sorry for the pessimistic tone, but as much as I'd like some extra choices, this is just too much to ask of ANet at this stage, I'm afraid.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

It would just be three, English, German, and French. Spanish has no audio (language-wise).Regardless, not something that is likely to happen.

[Ashgar.3024]

@derd.6413 said:i never understood this thing about ppl trying to be their IRL self ingame but that might be because i'm boring.

I'm totally a 400+ pounds horned cat-man IRL.

@OP Most MMOs don't even voice their protagonists at all, the fact Anet went out of its way to voice 5 races with 2 genders is an enormous (and expensive) amount of work as it is. Expecting them to cover every possible "variation" people come up with isn't remotely realistic.

[Stephane Lo Presti.7258]

We've removed transphobic and off-topic comments, and took moderation actions against the relevant players. This is a reminder that respect of fellow players is a rule on the Guild Wars 2 forums and we won't tolerate any kind of hate speech. I've also seen a lot of derailing and off-topic so I'll be clear: this is not the place to discuss what being trans is, there are many online resources that people can check to know more.

I'll keep an eye on this thread, please stay on-topic from now on.

[foozlesprite.8051]

OP wasn't asking for them to record a new voice, as I understand it, merely to let you pick between the male and female VAs independently of picking a male or female base character model. It would be using already-existing assets.

As a nonbinary person myself, I'd love that option. My main character uses a human female base model, but being an elementalist, there aren't a ton of unisex or non-skimpy skins to pick from. I'd switch over to a male base model with an appearance kit so I had more clothing options, but 6.5 years of playing the character have endeared me to the human female VA and I can't imagine hearing anyone else.

I know something like this is probably a pipe dream, but it would be nice. If nothing else I'd like to see some explicit nonbinary rep, no matter how small. Anet's been good about LGBT inclusion, from the big stuff like Kasjory to the missable gems like Aid Worker Sya in LA. I'd trust them to handle a nonbinary NPC, and I'm sure the surprising number of nonbinary GW2-playing friends and acquaintances I have would greatly appreciate the nod in our direction.

[kharmin.7683]

@foozlesprite.8051 said:I know something like this is probably a pipe dream, but it would be nice. If nothing else I'd like to see some explicit nonbinary rep, no matter how small. Anet's been good about LGBT inclusion, from the big stuff like Kasjory to the missable gems like Aid Worker Sya in LA. I'd trust them to handle a nonbinary NPC, and I'm sure the surprising number of nonbinary GW2-playing friends and acquaintances I have would greatly appreciate the nod in our direction.

Well, they probably need to be careful to not alienate other portions of their player-base by trending too far from current social norms? Or risk getting labeled by whatever gaming authority which might put the game out of reach for a younger audience (by putting a Mature tag on the game, for example)?

[Balsa.3951]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@foozlesprite.8051 said:I know something like this is probably a pipe dream, but it would be nice. If nothing else I'd like to see some explicit nonbinary rep, no matter how small. Anet's been good about LGBT inclusion, from the big stuff like Kasjory to the missable gems like Aid Worker Sya in LA. I'd trust them to handle a nonbinary NPC, and I'm sure the surprising number of nonbinary GW2-playing friends and acquaintances I have would greatly appreciate the nod in our direction.

Well, they probably need to be careful to not alienate other portions of their player-base by trending too far from current social norms? Or risk getting labeled by whatever gaming authority which might put the game out of reach for a younger audience (by putting a Mature tag on the game, for example)?

social norms facepalm again, why would it need a mature tag when non binary ppl are featured in an game ?

[kharmin.7683]

I was merely speculating

[Zexanima.7851]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@foozlesprite.8051 said:I know something like this is probably a pipe dream, but it would be nice. If nothing else I'd like to see some explicit nonbinary rep, no matter how small. Anet's been good about LGBT inclusion, from the big stuff like Kasjory to the missable gems like Aid Worker Sya in LA. I'd trust them to handle a nonbinary NPC, and I'm sure the surprising number of nonbinary GW2-playing friends and acquaintances I have would greatly appreciate the nod in our direction.

Well, they probably need to be careful to not alienate other portions of their player-base by trending too far from current social norms? Or risk getting labeled by whatever gaming authority which might put the game out of reach for a younger audience (by putting a Mature tag on the game, for example)?

I'm not sure I follow. I don't think changing voice options would have any affect in the way you mentioned. Including more diversity would not exclude anyone. How in the name of the old gods would including voice options or more gender representation warrant a mature rating?

[kharmin.7683]

Not saying that it would, but if something like this were implemented, then what next? Would it ever end? Would it potentially escalate to something more mature themed?

[Zexanima.7851]

@kharmin.7683 said:Not saying that it would, but if something like this were implemented, then what next? Would it ever end? Would it potentially escalate to something more mature themed?

Changes like these would hopefully never stop. The day they announce no more new features will be added will the be the day I stop playing the game. If those features support more diversity, all the better. I still don't see how this has any relation to mature themes, I think you're misunderstanding something.

[kharmin.7683]

Perhaps so. Whatever. I'll just bow out now.

[kettering.6823]

@kharmin.7683 said:Not saying that it would, but if something like this were implemented, then what next? Would it ever end? Would it potentially escalate to something more mature themed?

I don't understand why you are making such leaping conclusions that something as innocent as including non-binary genders for much needed representation would lead to 'mature themes'. Gender identity is not a mature theme, it is a reality for many people, young and old.