newsflash: condi mirage doesn't beat warrior

[incisorr.9502]

@"spartan.9421" said:I find it amusing that this guy posts something like this every couple of weeks and then completely ignores any counter arguments.

I can't tell if he is a troll, a really bad player or both.

do quote any counter arguments that i've ignored ? there hasn't been any arguments because there can't be any arguments on this matter

a spellbreaker with Featherfoot Grace, berserker stance, shake it off (full anti condi) and signet of healing and also shield block and evades/whirlwinds/fullcounters inbetween will simply not take damage from condi mirage. It can't die. You have 3 stun breaks in this build on top of that but you don't even need them because mirage doesnt run pistol as much as before now cause axe is not usable so you're forced to use staff which means you chose torch or pistol. You don't even have 2 stuns to cc a spellbreaker, what goes for three and then you'd need a 4th to "kill them" and even if u actually cced a SB your condition dmg is torment/confusion which means they HAVE TO BE DOING SOMETHING TO TAKE DAMAGE and they generally arent doing anything while being cced

so what arguments should i answer to? You simply can't die as SB to mirage unless you make a mistake or can't play

[spartan.9421]

@incisorr.9502 said:

@"spartan.9421" said:I find it amusing that this guy posts something like this every couple of weeks and then completely ignores any counter arguments.

I can't tell if he is a troll, a really bad player or both.

do quote any counter arguments that i've ignored ? there hasn't been any arguments because there can't be any arguments on this matter

a spellbreaker with Featherfoot Grace, berserker stance, shake it off (full anti condi) and signet of healing and also shield block and evades/whirlwinds/fullcounters inbetween will simply not take damage from condi mirage. It can't die. You have 3 stun breaks in this build on top of that but you don't even need them because mirage doesnt run pistol as much as before now cause axe is not usable so you're forced to use staff which means you chose torch or pistol. You don't even have 2 stuns to cc a spellbreaker, what goes for three and then you'd need a 4th to "kill them" and even if u actually cced a SB your condition dmg is torment/confusion which means they HAVE TO BE DOING SOMETHING TO TAKE DAMAGE and they generally arent doing anything while being cced

so what arguments should i answer to? You simply can't die as SB to mirage unless you make a mistake or can't play

You ignore every comment on all your other posts.

I'm sure this is a waste of time and you'll ignore what I am about to say, or come up with an excuse but... If you complained less, and practiced more you'd learn how to deal with the anti condi spellbreaker. It isn't as hard as you seem to think.

a spellbreaker with Featherfoot Grace, berserker stance, shake it off (full anti condi) and signet of healingit does not have a 100% up time, and if they use the healing signet active effect (the resistance) they lose the passive effect (healing per second) for 20 seconds. A mesmer also has some boonsteal, so you also have the option of removing the resistance.

and also shield blockYou have some unblockable moves one of which steals boons. Arcane thievery.

and evades/whirlwinds/fullcounters inbetween will simply not take damage from condi mirage.They have two dodges, (same as every other class) one whirlwind attack, and one full counter. All of which have cooldowns to them.

You, as a mirage, also have dodges and damage mitigation.You have two dodges, as well as vigor, stealth, detargeting, clones, blinds, blur, distortion and teleports. You have a big toolkit, learn to use it before you complain like a child on the forums and embarrass yourself.

You have 3 stun breaks in this build on top of thatOkay... And your point is...?

mirage doesnt run pistol as much as before now cause axe is not usable so you're forced to use staff which means you chose torch or pistol.no one is forcing you to use staff, you have other options if you take the time to actually think. Axe is still usable, it's just not as overpowered as you want it to be.

u don't even have 2 stuns to cc a spellbreaker, what goes for three and then you'd need a 4th to "kill them"Not sure what you're trying to say here.

and even if u actually cced a SB your condition dmg is torment/confusion which means they HAVE TO BE DOING SOMETHING TO TAKE DAMAGE and they generally arent doing anything while being ccedThen don't try to stun lock them. Interrupt important skills. Not sure how you could think this is an issue.

[incisorr.9502]

this is a joke

arcane thievery is bad, normal people don't use it. It can be dodged. It has huge cooldown

whirlwind/bulls charge have incredibly low cds and so does full counter, it's not comparable. Mirage has way less dodges than SB. SB restores stamina from strength traitline and it also has way higher vigor uptime if you play defense than mirage does and warrior has the most dodges in the game except a dodge-oriented thief build

You have two dodges, as well as vigor, stealth, detargeting, clones, blinds, blur, distortion and teleports. You have a big toolkit, learn to use it before you complain like a child on the forums and embarrass yourself.

wow what's the point of listing mesmer kit?

warrior has rampage, arcing slice, whirlwind, full counter, rush, healing signet OWO BIG ARGUMENT

The reason why i mentioned whirlwind and full counter before that was because they are both defensive skills and they both contribute to a defensive rotation , the likes of which mirage doesn't have, except distortion or axe 3 but nobody uses axe any more because the weapon is completely horrible due to the last patch

you talk about me ignoring arguments and then you don't present any arguments except horribly written aggressive post that makes no sense whatsoever to anyone that attempts to understand it

[ZeteCommander.4937]

Mesmer are biased in this forum. It's most op as long as Mesmer can move.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Even Rev beats condi mirage 1v1 if the rev builds for it. Corruption, Salvation, invocation core rev Ventari/Mallyx will stomp mirage. There's just one tiny little problem: it gets stomped in turn by literally everything else in the game, not just other meta builds but other meme builds too.

The entire reason meta builds are called "Most efficient tactic available" is because the build is good in multiple situations that would otherwise hinder it from performing their class role. The build that suffers from the least bad situations while performing said role successfully is generally the build that gets elevated to meta status.

So when you say a class can beat its counter by playing some off-meta jank that loses to everything else, the logical response is this: No one cares.

[KrHome.1920]

@incisorr.9502 said:If you beat a warrior who's playing demolisher amulet (+toughness) which is a counter to power damage and not to condi cus vitality would be better vs condiDemolisher is not anti power and marauder is not anti condi in general.

Almost every condi attack has also a direct damage part which more thoughness lowers.

Vitality does not make sense when you can't heal it up again. Your heals become more efficient when you take less overall damage (-> go for toughness!)

Different classes have different base health resulting in favoring different amulets. Marauder is worse than demolisher on necro and warrior but better on thief and guardian in most scenarios.

Conditions are mainly countered by dodges, blocks, cleanses and resistance.Direct damage is mainly countered by dodges, blocks and efficient healing received through the damage mitigation via toughness and protection.

Please start to learn the game basics! This is not your first posting full of weird assumptions.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@incisorr.9502 said:this is a joke

arcane thievery is bad, normal people don't use it. It can be dodged. It has huge cooldown

whirlwind/bulls charge have incredibly low cds and so does full counter, it's not comparable. Mirage has way less dodges than SB. SB restores stamina from strength traitline and it also has way higher vigor uptime if you play defense than mirage does and warrior has the most dodges in the game except a dodge-oriented thief build

You have two dodges, as well as vigor, stealth, detargeting, clones, blinds, blur, distortion and teleports. You have a big toolkit, learn to use it before you complain like a child on the forums and embarrass yourself.

wow what's the point of listing mesmer kit?

warrior has rampage, arcing slice, whirlwind, full counter, rush, healing signet OWO BIG ARGUMENT

The reason why i mentioned whirlwind and full counter before that was because they are both defensive skills and they both contribute to a defensive rotation , the likes of which mirage doesn't have, except distortion or axe 3 but nobody uses axe any more because the weapon is completely horrible due to the last patch

you talk about me ignoring arguments and then you don't present any arguments except horribly written aggressive post that makes no sense whatsoever to anyone that attempts to understand it

Arcane thievery is bad because it can be dodged? So u want it to be unavoidable by the opponent?sounds about right lol

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:this is a joke

arcane thievery is bad, normal people don't use it. It can be dodged. It has huge cooldown

whirlwind/bulls charge have incredibly low cds and so does full counter, it's not comparable. Mirage has way less dodges than SB. SB restores stamina from strength traitline and it also has way higher vigor uptime if you play defense than mirage does and warrior has the most dodges in the game except a dodge-oriented thief build

You have two dodges, as well as vigor, stealth, detargeting, clones, blinds, blur, distortion and teleports. You have a big toolkit, learn to use it before you complain like a child on the forums and embarrass yourself.

wow what's the point of listing mesmer kit?

warrior has rampage, arcing slice, whirlwind, full counter, rush, healing signet OWO BIG ARGUMENT

The reason why i mentioned whirlwind and full counter before that was because they are both defensive skills and they both contribute to a defensive rotation , the likes of which mirage doesn't have, except distortion or axe 3 but nobody uses axe any more because the weapon is completely horrible due to the last patch

you talk about me ignoring arguments and then you don't present any arguments except horribly written aggressive post that makes no sense whatsoever to anyone that attempts to understand it

Arcane thievery is bad because it can be dodged? So u want it to be unavoidable by the opponent?sounds about right lol

Yeah, I don't understand how arcane thievery is bad. Give yourself quickness plus steal 3 boons while applying slow and transferring 3 conditions? There may be better utilities to use, but it's hard to imagine a build that couldn't make use of this skill. And the cooldown seems quite reasonable to me.

[HeadCrowned.6834]

Nerf mesmer.

[incisorr.9502]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:this is a joke

arcane thievery is bad, normal people don't use it. It can be dodged. It has huge cooldown

whirlwind/bulls charge have incredibly low cds and so does full counter, it's not comparable. Mirage has way less dodges than SB. SB restores stamina from strength traitline and it also has way higher vigor uptime if you play defense than mirage does and warrior has the most dodges in the game except a dodge-oriented thief build

You have two dodges, as well as vigor, stealth, detargeting, clones, blinds, blur, distortion and teleports. You have a big toolkit, learn to use it before you complain like a child on the forums and embarrass yourself.

wow what's the point of listing mesmer kit?

warrior has rampage, arcing slice, whirlwind, full counter, rush, healing signet OWO BIG ARGUMENT

The reason why i mentioned whirlwind and full counter before that was because they are both defensive skills and they both contribute to a defensive rotation , the likes of which mirage doesn't have, except distortion or axe 3 but nobody uses axe any more because the weapon is completely horrible due to the last patch

you talk about me ignoring arguments and then you don't present any arguments except horribly written aggressive post that makes no sense whatsoever to anyone that attempts to understand it

Arcane thievery is bad because it can be dodged? So u want it to be unavoidable by the opponent?sounds about right lol

Yeah, I don't understand how arcane thievery is bad. Give yourself quickness plus steal 3 boons while applying slow and transferring 3 conditions? There may be better utilities to use, but it's hard to imagine a build that couldn't make use of this skill. And the cooldown seems quite reasonable to me.

because arcane thievery is a condition removal slot utility and if your condi removal has a cast time and is so unreliable you will die because of conditions (not just to condi based builds but even power builds with chill or cripple) if you miss the arcane thievery

it's a flawed skill and at most i can see it justified for chaos builds but chaos in itself is flawed and niché and good vs some things but bad in general

[Meteor.3720]

@"incisorr.9502" said:People in this game are incredibly biased and lie all the time and say all sorts of untruthful literal propaganda but are incapable of judging correctly.

PLEASE tell me you see the irony in this statement when you rant every few days about how "useless" mirage is despite the fact that, whilst it is not as strong as it was, it's perfectly viable.Just because mirage is no longer god tier doesn't mean it's useless or that you're some sort of pvp master because you play mirage fairly successfully.

[Mbelch.9028]

@Meteor.3720 said:

@"incisorr.9502" said:People in this game are incredibly biased and lie all the time and say all sorts of untruthful literal propaganda but are incapable of judging correctly.

PLEASE tell me you see the irony in this statement when you rant every few days about how "useless" mirage is despite the fact that, whilst it is not as strong as it was, it's perfectly viable.Just because mirage is no longer god tier doesn't mean it's useless or that you're some sort of pvp master because you play mirage fairly successfully.

Ding ding ding ding.

[Spartacus.3192]

I gotta go see an eye doc because when i read the OP post all i saw was.

Waaah waah waah......more waaah.

help me doc!

[Milady.1593]

Did you consider 'I can not kill' as 'counter my build'?

[mortrialus.3062]

Spellbreaker has since its inception had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage and get the node out from under them without fail. Those were never, ever nerfed and were actually buffed. It's just most Spellbreakers decided not to use them as zipping across the map like Sonic the Hedgehog and 8-10k crits were more fun, even if it means an unfavorable match up against Condi Mirages.

Anyone that denies this simply does not know what they're talking about.

[dominik.9721]

@mortrialus.3062 said:Spellbreaker has since its inception had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage and get the node out from under them without fail. Those were never, ever nerfed and were actually buffed. It's just most Spellbreakers decided not to use them as zipping across the map like Sonic the Hedgehog and 8-10k crits were more fun, even if it means an unfavorable match up against Condi Mirages.

Anyone that denies this simply does not know what they're talking about.

If you play with both restistance utilities you might be favoured against mirage but you'll be completely unviable in general since you'll lose to chrono, to soulbeasts and will have less impact overall.

So playing a shitty build just to counter one braindead pof-spec with that irrelevant players finally can feel relevant is not an option.

[mortrialus.3062]

@dominik.9721 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Spellbreaker has since its inception had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage and get the node out from under them without fail. Those were never, ever nerfed and were actually buffed. It's just most Spellbreakers decided not to use them as zipping across the map like Sonic the Hedgehog and 8-10k crits were more fun, even if it means an unfavorable match up against Condi Mirages.

Anyone that denies this simply does not know what they're talking about.

If you play with both restistance utilities you might be favoured against mirage but you'll be completely unviable in general since you'll lose to chrono, to soulbeasts and will have less impact overall.

So playing a kitten build just to counter one braindead pof-spec with that irrelevant players finally can feel relevant is not an option.

You don't need both resistance, just one. You actually gain more ability to survive against Chrono and Soulbeast as well. You don't even give up too much damage. You mostly sacrifice your disengage.

It's so funny how people look at meta battle and think "These are the ONLY viable utility choices and if anything is touched or changed EVERYTHING falls apart and Spellbreaker will be in the garbage abyss forever" when that's not ever remotely close to being true.

[Meteor.3720]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Spellbreaker has since its inception had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage and get the node out from under them without fail. Those were never, ever nerfed and were actually buffed. It's just most Spellbreakers decided not to use them as zipping across the map like Sonic the Hedgehog and 8-10k crits were more fun, even if it means an unfavorable match up against Condi Mirages.

Anyone that denies this simply does not know what they're talking about.

If you play with both restistance utilities you might be favoured against mirage but you'll be completely unviable in general since you'll lose to chrono, to soulbeasts and will have less impact overall.

So playing a kitten build just to counter one braindead pof-spec with that irrelevant players finally can feel relevant is not an option.

You don't need both resistance, just one. You actually gain more ability to survive against Chrono and Soulbeast as well. You don't even give up too much damage. You mostly sacrifice your disengage.

It's so funny how people look at meta battle and think "These are the ONLY viable utility choices and if anything is touched or changed EVERYTHING falls apart and Spellbreaker will be in the garbage abyss forever" when that's not ever remotely close to being true.

Yes Dominik bases his entire pvp opinion and experience on metabattle and really should take pvp advice from you. Well pointed out. Not like he actually bases his opinions on experience of high end pvp rather than gold tier knowledge of the game. Not at all.

[incisorr.9502]

@Meteor.3720 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Spellbreaker has since its inception had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage and get the node out from under them without fail. Those were never, ever nerfed and were actually buffed. It's just most Spellbreakers decided not to use them as zipping across the map like Sonic the Hedgehog and 8-10k crits were more fun, even if it means an unfavorable match up against Condi Mirages.

Anyone that denies this simply does not know what they're talking about.

If you play with both restistance utilities you might be favoured against mirage but you'll be completely unviable in general since you'll lose to chrono, to soulbeasts and will have less impact overall.

So playing a kitten build just to counter one braindead pof-spec with that irrelevant players finally can feel relevant is not an option.

You don't need both resistance, just one. You actually gain more ability to survive against Chrono and Soulbeast as well. You don't even give up too much damage. You mostly sacrifice your disengage.

It's so funny how people look at meta battle and think "These are the ONLY viable utility choices and if anything is touched or changed EVERYTHING falls apart and Spellbreaker will be in the garbage abyss forever" when that's not ever remotely close to being true.

Yes Dominik bases his entire pvp opinion and experience on metabattle and really should take pvp advice from you. Well pointed out. Not like he actually bases his opinions on experience of high end pvp rather than gold tier knowledge of the game. Not at all.

I mean if you're gonna use that argument for dominik might as well use it for me as well. But that doesn't favor you and since we're in gw2 forums people here aren't objective and only state half of the truth

it's true that if a SB specs to counter mirage then the SB will be less good against other meta things and i said that will be the case in my post but at the same time it's also true that mirage itself isn't omni-potent by the exact same logic. Because mirage's 'meta/current spec' is good against meta sb - it's not good against other things.

Before the meta changed , the mirage spec that destroyed spellbreakers was completely trash against a different mirage spec. So much so that you could literally beat condi mirage 14:1 which is a ridiculous "ratio" (and by the irony of faith, the mirage spec that beats condi mirage wasn't actually good vs SB so it was like a full circle). On top of that it was horrible in certain types of fights and it's always been weak(er) than any other class against thief +1s and if you don't think thief +1 is relevant then you don't know anything cus high elo (used) to be plagued by thieves. Now there's barely anyone playing (not just thieves, any class)

so yeah, a sb getting +1'd by thief is nowhere near as bad as a mirage getting +1'd by thief. The entire point of this thread was to explain that if a person loses to X class/build then it isn't necessarily the class's fault but it might be their build being specced to fight something completely different. Yes classes can play a role, like how thief counters mesmer because of plasma, but in most cases it's just greedy meta builds that get punished by a specific build and that results in people raging and giving biased feedback. (Mainly the demolisher amulet abuser classes , who by design are made to be weaker vs condi and even still they don't fall completely flat on their face which goes to show just how strong it is, even when it's not specced to counter condi)

[witcher.3197]

Can we just nerf Mirage and buff incisorr? Everybody wins.

[ChillyKoti.1928]

First an foremore, Mirage is suposed to counter Warrior, however not Spellbreaker.

Secondly, Mirage has some awesome tools to disrupt ennemies as well as for attacking/disengaging.

I play Mirage sometimes and this is to me the most relaxed and funny build to play in the game.

I don't see the big problem mentioned by the OP.

[meri.9187]

@witcher.3197 said:Can we just nerf Mirage and buff incisorr? Everybody wins.

Patch notes:

Made Incisorr's brain wrinkly instead of smooth.