TIPS to help a guild focus damage when fighting

[Twilightzone.7452]

Hello! I am looking for some ideas to help a guild focus there DPS. Basically I see a lot of other WvW guilds that seem to have it spot on and I was wonder how they practice doing it?

I am a leader and commander for casual guild that is trying to get better in WvW. I already got the sustain (I think it is decent for what we do) and have the classes like power revs and necros. My guild mates are also set up with builds and in coms with me but I always feel like the "bomb spot" is never one spot but all over the place. I tried showing general rotation of the builds and classes and using markers but only to some success. Right now we have being using engi stealth to help making it easier to bomb one spot (generally just on me in one spot).

I know the best way to practice is to just go into WvW and kept trying, in which we do as we always generally come back after we lost.

Does anyone have any tips or tricks that might help with the more long range/engagement bomb. All I have left is to just keeping doing the rotation in the guild hall until people can do it without me calling it.Thanks and the guild is [sIN] Questionable Integrity if anyone is curious

[Sleepwalker.1398]

Are you guys on FC?Way many fight guilds stacked there..they should be able to help you.

[RisenHowl.2419]

put a marker down as you're coming in, or have them bomb on tag if the commander is a melee class

[Stand The Wall.6987]

have people record their game play and make em send it to you or upload it to youtube.

[Twilightzone.7452]

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:Are you guys on FC?Way many fight guilds stacked there..they should be able to help you.

We are on SBI but do not have any plans moving.

[Twilightzone.7452]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:have people record their game play and make em send it to you or upload it to youtube.

That is an idea, Ill give it a go.Thanks

[SloRules.3560]

Idk how long you guys are a guild, but it takes me like 2 months to get in sync with commander and i'm playing gvg since forever. It's going to take time, i know it takes at least half a year to get a noob to be palatable for a mid range guild (i've trained a lot of people). Even if they are great mechanically they need time to develop their way of reading the fight.

Now for actual tips. Just bomb on bubble? Mark a player you want the bomb is on? Mark the ground? Make syncing training before raid, start with jumping in sync and than go to bombing one spot (don't take to long on this, it's just a reminder for people to do their stuff on specific call). Eventually if you guys persist it's going to happen. But note that even the best guilds have weeks that they sturgle to do this, i mean, it's 15 people and they are not always on the same page.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Here are a few good tips

1) Always PUSH INTO the back line. Pushing all the way in will get your damage into the casters, which are squishy.

If the Zerg you are fighting has no noticeable tail (everyone is stacked on tag) than you need to pay more attention to where they move, and you need to do push-reverse pushes to disperse their ball. Once you disperse their ball, you can then aim for the back line

2) DO NOT squirrel...especially in open field. Position your Zerg so that you always have a choke nearby that you can retreat to fast to regain an advantage. If you squirrel you WILL lose because your back line can not reach to pressure the opposing Zerg and you will eventually get pushed.

3) if you see downstates, it means the opposing Zerg is under pressure and it’s a good time to push them. Do not hesitate when you see an opportunity to push downstates. In addition, being aggressive is almost always the most optimal strategy, because you don’t give the opposing Zerg time to use their skills to heal or do damage.

4) Always have someone select you the commander as a target. When you push into the back line, your casters just need to have you selected to drop their AOE’s. If you are having trouble, Have someone select an enemy back liner like a hammer rev or ele, and have your Zerg pretty much chase that target, as they are the indication that the player is within the back line.

5) When you reverse push, you need to not do it so abruptly...because if you reverse push you are forcing your back line into the frontline and they will die if the enemy Zerg sees you “retreating”

[Twilightzone.7452]

@SloRules.3560 said:Idk how long you guys are a guild, but it takes me like 2 months to get in sync with commander and i'm playing gvg since forever. It's going to take time, i know it takes at least half a year to get a noob to be palatable for a mid range guild (i've trained a lot of people). Even if they are great mechanically they need time to develop their way of reading the fight.

Now for actual tips. Just bomb on bubble? Mark a player you want the bomb is on? Mark the ground? Make syncing training before raid, start with jumping in sync and than go to bombing one spot (don't take to long on this, it's just a reminder for people to do their stuff on specific call). Eventually if you guys persist it's going to happen. But note that even the best guilds have weeks that they sturgle to do this, i mean, it's 15 people and they are not always on the same page.

Thank you for the tip, we have been together for about a year an half and trying to run builds as a guild for about 9 months. Good to know even the better guilds still have some off days.

[Twilightzone.7452]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:Here are a few good tips

1) Always PUSH INTO the back line. Pushing all the way in will get your damage into the casters, which are squishy.

If the Zerg you are fighting has no noticeable tail (everyone is stacked on tag) than you need to pay more attention to where they move, and you need to do push-reverse pushes to disperse their ball. Once you disperse their ball, you can then aim for the back line

2) DO NOT squirrel...especially in open field. Position your Zerg so that you always have a choke nearby that you can retreat to fast to regain an advantage. If you squirrel you WILL lose because your back line can not reach to pressure the opposing Zerg and you will eventually get pushed.

3) if you see downstates, it means the opposing Zerg is under pressure and it’s a good time to push them. Do not hesitate when you see an opportunity to push downstates. In addition, being aggressive is almost always the most optimal strategy, because you don’t give the opposing Zerg time to use their skills to heal or do damage.

4) Always have someone select you the commander as a target. When you push into the back line, your casters just need to have you selected to drop their AOE’s. If you are having trouble, Have someone select an enemy back liner like a hammer rev or ele, and have your Zerg pretty much chase that target, as they are the indication that the player is within the back line.

5) When you reverse push, you need to not do it so abruptly...because if you reverse push you are forcing your back line into the frontline and they will die if the enemy Zerg sees you “retreating”

1)Got it, push to the back line

2)Guilty and something I need to work. I am always fine with wide open fight thinking it will help us but can see how choking will help reduce the squirreling.

3)Ok, I am generally aggressive but most likely me going in at bad times. But focus the downs without hesitation, got it.

4) We actually tried this last night and heard good feedback. I didn't think of using the whole zerg to target me to help with bombing as I usually tell them to do that targets instead or I try to do a marking. Going to try this Thursday.

5)Ok, would a quick empower after the first push then reverse push in help in this case? Or is that going to single the enemy zerg to attack us as we staying still. I do need to practice reverse push. more the timing of it as I do abruptly do it.

Thank you very much for the tips!

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Great tips. Thank you for them

[XenesisII.1540]

^ multiple nods of agreement with JusticeRetro.Always think about your positioning, the less your zerg needs to think about sustaining at the moment, the more they can think about dropping bombs in the right place at the right time.

If you're the tag and you're always pushing into the meaty parts then tell them to bomb on you, then you just need to move to areas you want them to bomb, that's about the simplest thing to do. If they can't do this then it's time to sit aside somewhere and practice movements and bombing until they get their reaction timing down.

Also make sure people are using the right skills to bomb with, go through every dps class and pull out the skills you want on reserve for the heavy bombing, some people just tend to spam drop whatever wherever whenever, start simple with this, you don't need a complex 20 skill raid rotation laid out here.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if you have enough ppl and cd's it might help to separate your bombs into 2 or even 3 separate bombs. this will lead to more downs and much more sustainability over time. generally I see a ton of cd's wasted when half of them would do. for example, if you have 3 necros, 3 revs, 3 sb's, that's 3 potent enough bombs to down at least 5 ppl. don't waste any big cd's on downs unless there are ppl ressing.

that's why its so good to have footage to look at. you can call ppl out on their big mistakes, but you don't have to do that in front of everyone. if youre dead serious on improving, you could give ppl an ultimatum and say "fix this within so and so or im sorry gotta let you go".

[shiri.4257]

A new commander that is asking the right questions and looking to improve in the right manner. bravo lad! How many people do you muster on average for a raid?

Goto your guild hall. if you have 15 people. split into a group of 10 and 5. if you have 10, group of 5 and 2/3. Have the larger group practice bombing the smaller group. Smaller group's job is to dodge and sustain. initially, have the smaller group just stand in the center and allow them to move only to the first ring with dodges. eventually, just 10v5 in there and try to hit a moving target.

[Optimator.3589]

Have your revs hold phase smash until called for, preferably with a 3-2-1 countdown and not during a lot of movement where they're going to get tailed out from using it. Have your scourges hold wells until called for, either on push or retreat. Have them breach when you're being pushed into, or if you're on top of an enemy group.

Mesmer pulls and grav wells can do much to enhance a range bomb, too. Just ask anybody who ever fought with or against Indo. :lol:

[Twilightzone.7452]

@shiri.4257 said:A new commander that is asking the right questions and looking to improve in the right manner. bravo lad! How many people do you muster on average for a raid?

Goto your guild hall. if you have 15 people. split into a group of 10 and 5. if you have 10, group of 5 and 2/3. Have the larger group practice bombing the smaller group. Smaller group's job is to dodge and sustain. initially, have the smaller group just stand in the center and allow them to move only to the first ring with dodges. eventually, just 10v5 in there and try to hit a moving target.

We have about 15 what I consider core as they are on most of the week but we can average anywhere from 15-25 to some weekends 30 with other guilds not running. I have heard about trying to practice in the guild like so. I guess give it at least a try.

[Twilightzone.7452]

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:if you have enough ppl and cd's it might help to separate your bombs into 2 or even 3 separate bombs. this will lead to more downs and much more sustainability over time. generally I see a ton of cd's wasted when half of them would do. for example, if you have 3 necros, 3 revs, 3 sb's, that's 3 potent enough bombs to down at least 5 ppl. don't waste any big cd's on downs unless there are ppl ressing.

that's why its so good to have footage to look at. you can call ppl out on their big mistakes, but you don't have to do that in front of everyone. if youre dead serious on improving, you could give ppl an ultimatum and say "fix this within so and so or im sorry gotta let you go".Ooo multiple bombs and holding back. Honestly I didnt think of that as our prime goal first not to get one push everytime and survive a bomb or two. This is something really easy I can do, thank you!!!

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Twilightzone.7452 said:Ooo multiple bombs and holding back. Honestly I didnt think of that as our prime goal first not to get one push everytime and survive a bomb or two. This is something really easy I can do, thank you!!!

np. it comes down to how much it takes to down a 3.3k armor 20k hp target (for safeties sake, with protection). making them waste their 3 dodges with fake bombs (guard symbols, lava font anything low cd) and just being patient will help too.

just curious, what sort of numbers do you guys normally hit? at double your own numbers vs pugs it gets increasingly impossible so watch out.

[Twilightzone.7452]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Twilightzone.7452 said:Ooo multiple bombs and holding back. Honestly I didnt think of that as our prime goal first not to get one push everytime and survive a bomb or two. This is something really easy I can do, thank you!!!

np. it comes down to how much it takes to down a 3.3k armor 20k hp target (for safeties sake, with protection). making them waste their 3 dodges with fake bombs (guard symbols, lava font anything low cd) and just being patient will help too.

just curious, what sort of numbers do you guys normally hit? at double your own numbers vs pugs it gets increasingly impossible so watch out.

generally we get 15 core that show up most of the week but we can get anywhere from 15-25. I have made that mistake many times where I fought double numbers but generally I still try once or twice to give it a go. Even guilds that might have +8 more than us, still try.