Why can Engineers...

[Orthonen.9470]

Fight 1v3 at a point and not die? Where is the logic behind this?

[8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45]

Technology beats climate change

[FyzE.3472]

Now read carefully.There are 2 steps you need to do in order to counter any current engineer build:

1. You pick Spellbreaker.
2. You kill the engineer 1v1.

Think you can do that?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Their sustain is overtuned. We were here with Turret Engies a few years ago, except back then it was area denial moreso than sustain.

@FyzE.3472 said:Now read carefully.There are 2 steps you need to do in order to counter any current engineer build:

1. You pick Spellbreaker.

True, but if there are 9 classes in the game and one overperforms against 7 of them, it needs rebalancing.

[FyzE.3472]

Nope. Spellbrealer is just the easiest. If you have knockbacks, then you can decap or even recap the point thus making scrapper absolutely useless since it does no damage.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I can shoot my own mortar ice field into reflects, so i can flip the 5x1s chill into 5x4s alacrity.

Logic he says.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Aridon.8362 said:Fight 1v3 at a point and not die? Where is the logic behind this?

You're gonna have to be more specific. What kind of engineer was it? What was his build? What were your teammates builds?

[Arkantos.7460]

@Aridon.8362 said:Fight 1v3 at a point and not die? Where is the logic behind this?

1. you pick jalis rev
2. you defeat him 1vs1 ez

[Lighter.5631]

@FyzE.3472 said:Now read carefully.There are 2 steps you need to do in order to counter any current engineer build:

1. You pick Spellbreaker.
2. You kill the engineer 1v1.

Think you can do that?

spellbreaker doesnt really bet him tho, scrapper can kit spellbreaker easy

[James.1065]

True, but if there are 9 classes in the game and one overperforms against 7 of them, it needs rebalancing.

Says the guy with the mesmer icon!

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Does that scrapper deal any sort of dmg back?

[FyzE.3472]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:Now read carefully.There are 2 steps you need to do in order to counter any current engineer build:

1. You pick Spellbreaker.
2. You kill the engineer 1v1.

Think you can do that?

spellbreaker doesnt really bet him tho, scrapper can kit spellbreaker easy

What?! Great joke. Unicorns also exist.

[Orthonen.9470]

I've seen berserkers with a better shot than spellbreakers against scrapper. Scrapper is a complete power bunker and they can just run away from condi spreaders.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

I can't be the only one who, after reading the OP, heard in their head:

"Can we bunker?!"YES WE CAN!"

[Undo.5091]

@Aridon.8362 said:I've seen berserkers with a better shot than spellbreakers against scrapper.

The point is that spellbreaker competes with scrapper for the same role in sPvP, so they end up clashing on side nodes when on opposite teams. A spellbreaker can fairly easily take the node from a scrapper, if not kill it. If that same spellbreaker build didn’t suffer as much from thief +1s, you’d see far fewer scrappers...

In the end, the obvious solution is to nerf thief. /s

[Mbelch.9028]

K. The terminology here is bad-ish. I get that you mean scrapper, but core engi is what a lot of people think when you just say engineer.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:Now read carefully.There are 2 steps you need to do in order to counter any current engineer build:

1. You pick Spellbreaker.
2. You kill the engineer 1v1.

Think you can do that?

spellbreaker doesnt really bet him tho, scrapper can kit spellbreaker easy

What?! Great joke. Unicorns also exist.

It's true though. Spellbreaker isn't even the best equipped to deal with Scrappers or Holos now. Holo is a fair fight for them, but Spellbreaker is a meh option for dealing with scrappers. Our only real knockback is rampage 2 and scrappers have buttloads of stability and blinds to counteract that, both of which cancel most of Spellbreaker's damage outside of rampage too as they can't set up for 100b or arcing slice.

Sure, we can contest them on a neutral or favored point forever without dying, but that goes for pretty much ever side-noder in the game, and with Spellbreaker's limited stability and all of Scrapper's knockback's; they'll eventually take the point and ultimately beat the Spellbreaker at what they're trying to do.

[TheDevice.2751]

Engineers are able to that because it's part of their lore and fits their fantasy. They have like infinite skills and just can do everything so why not?

This game really isn't about balance, it's about the devs entertaining themselves through favoritism XD.

Holos and scrappers have continuously had it good for quite some time, also since they're one of the few who's been able to deal with mesmers.

Ive been saying it for years that mesmers, engineers, and wars are the real classes in this game. Everything else is just fluff.

[Vagrant.7206]

@TheDevice.2751 said:Holos and scrappers have continuously had it good for quite some time, also since they're one of the few who's been able to deal with mesmers.

Ive been saying it for years that mesmers, engineers, and wars are the real classes in this game. Everything else is just fluff.

Stop right there.

• Scrapper hasn't been useful at all since PoF dropped. Before that, it was only ever useful in PvP as a tank. It was never useful in PvE until the med kit rework. All of this is RECENT.
• Holo is different -- it has had a place since it first dropped, nearly everywhere. It's always been in the A-tier, if not S-tier, so I can agree with you there.
• And core engi has never been their favorite. It's always been a frigging mess. They took it in about 10 different directions and never fully fleshed any of them out.

[FyzE.3472]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:Now read carefully.There are 2 steps you need to do in order to counter any current engineer build:

1. You pick Spellbreaker.
2. You kill the engineer 1v1.

Think you can do that?

spellbreaker doesnt really bet him tho, scrapper can kit spellbreaker easy

What?! Great joke. Unicorns also exist.

It's true though. Spellbreaker isn't even the best equipped to deal with Scrappers or Holos now. Holo is a fair fight for them, but Spellbreaker is a meh option for dealing with scrappers. Our only real knockback is rampage 2 and scrappers have buttloads of stability and blinds to counteract that, both of which cancel most of Spellbreaker's damage outside of rampage too as they can't set up for 100b or arcing slice.

Sure, we can contest them on a neutral or favored point forever without dying, but that goes for pretty much ever side-noder in the game, and with Spellbreaker's limited stability and all of Scrapper's knockback's; they'll eventually take the point and ultimately beat the Spellbreaker at what they're trying to do.

What are you talking about? Since I play Spellbreaker, I can tell you that when ever I see an emginer- it's the best matchup for me. Just sheer amount of cc that Spellbreaker has puts enough pressure on scrapper that he must get off the node. Not to mention all the boon rip.And if it's a holo, oh my oh my how they love to spam their skills. Procking every single full counter ever. So yeah, not sure if you're serious.

Also, if a scrapper takes elixir x as elite, he looses a lot of "blinds that he has" so it's either knock-backs and stability or blinds. Spellbrealer can deal with both.

To be honest I'm not sure what build are you talking about at all. A scrapper that has knock-backs, blinds and "buttload" of stability... Care to share the build with me? May be then it will be easier to give at least some advice.

[Solo.6873]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:Now read carefully.There are 2 steps you need to do in order to counter any current engineer build:

1. You pick Spellbreaker.

True, but if there are 9 classes in the game and one overperforms against 7 of them, it needs rebalancing.

This is the logic from every class that has been nerfed.Azure is right. And engineer shouldn't be the exception

[Solo.6873]

@Mbelch.9028 said:K. The terminology here is bad-ish. I get that you mean scrapper, but core engi is what a lot of people think when you just say engineer.

It's kinda like when people say mesmer but mean mirage. Or thief but mean Daredevil.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"FyzE.3472" said:What are you talking about? Since I play Spellbreaker, I can tell you that when ever I see an emginer- it's the best matchup for me. Just sheer amount of cc that Spellbreaker has puts enough pressure on scrapper that he must get off the node. Not to mention all the boon rip.

Also, if a scrapper takes elixir x as elite, he looses a lot of "blinds that he has" so it's either knock-backs and stability or blinds. Spellbrealer can deal with both.

To be honest I'm not sure what build are you talking about at all. A scrapper that has knock-backs, blinds and "buttload" of stability... Care to share the build with me? May be then it will be easier to give at least some advice.

The build for Engineer is Gyro Bunker or any variant really.

The boonrip is an advantage, true, but that's really only useful when stripping Stab and protection, and the only way to get rid of Stability with Spellbreaker, is dagger burst(Which can always be dodged or mitigated through blinds.) or sigil of annulment/revocation both of which have pretty long cooldowns for what they do, and annulment is the better choice with a longer cooldown, because the added effect of stripping boons before the actual strike.

So every 18 seconds, you have a chance to strip stability with annulment, unless you land breaching strike; which again, can be dodge and mitigated through blinds. Overall engineer has more ways to reapply stability than these two options can keep up with. Of course you could tac on Break Enchantments, but then you lose a stunbreak; which is bad not only fighting a Scrapper, but anything really because in order to play like any semblance of an actual boon-hate class, Spellbreaker becomes absolutely terrible in the process.

The amount of CC Spellbreaker has is also way overstated here, as again; blinds and stability nullify them, and you get 4 outside of rampage as Strengthbreaker. Dagger 3, Shield 4, Bull's Charge(long CD), and FC(Which also has a pretty long CD for what it does now.) I guess you could count the magebane pull as well, although; you don't really want to proc that, and that'd be being very generous.

So 4 close-range CC options outside of rampage versus Gyro Bunker(Or any variant) 's:•Bullwark Gyro's toolbelt skill, 3 Stability stacks•Passive Smoke Bomb•Hammer 3•Hammer 4•Elixir U(Acts as both a Stunbreak + 2 Stability stacks)•And either Elixir X(Pulsing Stability stacks), or Mortar kit(Pulsing blinds in a field well more than enough to cover a point for one, and melee-range for two.) Thank you for clarifying they take up the same slot. They still essentially server the same purpose when fighting Spellbreaker.•And of course every class can just dodge. Bull's Charge, FC, and Shield bash aren't particularly subtle, they're very telegraphed.

If you count rampage, that bumps Spellbreaker's CC up to 7, but you lose boonstrip; making Stability even more effective against you, and it's no secret that blinds absolutely wreck rampage. I think it's also worth considering that Scrapper's Elixir U and Elixir Gun break stuns alongside on on top of all the effects mentioned, and their passive gives random protection and/or drop a blind field should any of Warrior's CC actually CC.

All that being said, I 100% seriously think it's absolutely wrong and disingenuous that Spellbreaker's CC is going to force a scrapper off a point. Like I said, it usually ends in neither party ever dying. Unblockable insane Damage is what it takes, and Spellbreaker doesn't have that in any way, shape, or form.

And I seriously still think the scrapper would eventually take whatever point because the average Strength Spellbreaker has 3 Stunbreaks, and like I say; CC and Blinds wreck Spellbreakers."SiO" is mandatory, as removing that bumps it down to 2 stunbreaks, and that has a whopping 50s charge CD.And the most popular second option is Frenzy on a 40s CD.

One Blast Gyro is half the CD of both Stunbreaks with hefty knockback, and one strategy I see Scrappers commonly employ is taking Mine for even more knockback when they know they'll be contesting Spellbreaker's for caps. And then there's always Elixir X. Without mirroring, you cannot facetank Rampage or Tornado, both of which are capable of knockback.

And blinds? Blinds have been the bane of Warrior's existence in general, since before HoT even. This is no new concept, and it's still one of the easiest and most effective ways to counter Warrior. If you've any sort of advice that would suggest otherwise, i'm all ears. Or eyes rather.

And if it's a holo, oh my oh my how they love to spam their skills. Procking every single full counter ever. So yeah, not sure if you're serious.

Holo is a more fair fight like I mentioned, at least for Spellbreakers, but I understand this post might of been made with other classes in mind.