[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...

[Aetheldrake.6395]

most people dont have the time to do a timegate inside of a timegate. tons of people still dont have a legendary simply because it's way too much work and they play to enjoy this beautiful game. they dont play to be told what to do and when to do it. realistically there's no way to defend putting timegates inside of timegates. most people probably would have been fine with something like "one collection will be released each day but you can do the first 3 on day 5, your day off of work if youre behind, then the other 4 on day 7, your other day off from work to catch up with everyone else"

every time you complete one you have to wait the next day. and unless you use youtube, this shit will take you over a week cuz that FIRST collection is a collection of collections. and a lot of people still havnt finished it 3 days in. on top of that theyre going to have to wait more days for crafting

world of warcraft probably is probably one of the worst more-well-known games that timegate every fucking thing. and this is reaching world of warcraft grindiness.

still not quite as bad as mobile phone game grinds tho

[White Dragon.5429]

@"Locce.8405" said:"Waiting" is not a good game concept.Some of these collections take quite a bit of time per se, so it is not like rushing through them as fast as possible would come without its price.What these timegates do is create artificial and arbitrary waiting periods. It does not matter if you were almost done with one step at daily reset. You are either done at that specific point of time or you basically lose a day, which is doubly frustrating when it happens because you were busy one day and you end up barely able to contribute anything towards completion the next day when you might have a lot more free time on your hands.Many of us are adults who know pretty well how to manage our time. Last thing we need is the game telling us when to do what we want to do when the result of our decision has no bearing on the enjoyment of the game for others.

This is exactly what I (and presumably many others) are experiencing at the moment. My work schedule allowed me to hit the first time gate MINUTES after the reset. Now that I finally have a day to put in real effort, I can't do anything. It's easily the most frustrating thing about this collection. I'd rather have to collect five times as many items at my own pace than have wasted days due to the timegate.

[Asum.4960]

People vehemently defending the timegates seem rather confused.

For the argument that it encourages you to play the map and enjoy the Story, it does exactly the opposite of that.I enjoyed the new map so much I went through the Story and did map completion on two characters before looking at the collections and learning about the timesgates, after which there was no chance for me to hit the first time gate before reset, causing me to get stuck for essentially an entire day, not being able to progress further and play when I wanted to and could.

The game had actively punished me for taking my time with the content and wanting it to last instead of immediately rushing through everything and looking at all of the achievements/collections, which is something I'm probably going to take into future releases as negative mindset, impacting how I consume the content.

At the same time, rushing through the entire set of collections at a time, feeling the psychological pressure of having to get it done in order not to hit the timegate at a bad time when I wanted to keep going IS what completely burned me out, especially of the new map with the first three sub collections, more than doing them at my own pace without a timegate breathing down my neck ever would have.

Bringing in realism as argument for the timegates because realistically we would need to wait a day for these steps to happen has to be a troll, right?I'm not even going to tackle that beyond calling it out, because you can't be serious. If anything is an indicator for there being no argument for the timegates, it's people having to dig that deep.

Same with the same old entitlement shut down. Calling people who want to work overtime to get something entitled, just because the gating aligns with your slower pace causing you to not be affected, is rather silly.

Now I'm actually not super upset about the timegating, because honestly, these collections are a ridiculous amount of work and I probably would log out for some time frustrated after each one anyway. As mentioned, probably even sooner than I did, without the timegate pushing me to finish everything I could. But it's just not good design or serves any purpose, as well as having the potential to really screw some players, especially those who can't play often, but when they do like to really get into it and get stuff done.In turn, there is no upside to them.

[Aetheldrake.6395]

there are probably a lot of people that will refuse to play other than doing their daily collection simply because of this timegating. even if only 1 collection was released each day, but you could do them all on the last day, that would still have been a better idea. i rarely go to the forums in the 6 years ive been playing other than to LOOK at patch notes and never really discuss it other than in game with something like "oh ya, reaper buufffff" in guild chat. but this actually makes me want to play less. by the time i'll finish a collection, a guide for the next one is already out. so the next day i can log in, quickly finish that, then leave and wait. once i get my skyscale tho, i'll definitely be back to playing like normal because i can play however slow or stupidly i wanna play. i can take my sweet time enjoying the graphics of the game again. i recently came up with a design to make my Reaper Shroud look almost like a Starbound mount skin, without any infusions cuz i dont have gold xD, and i enjoyed seeing it during regular gameplay hoping to find rare loot and ultimately never really finding any rare loot. and while i may have more time to give to the game than most, even tho i work 8hours a day 5 days a week, i'd rather spend all that time doing OTHER things than playing because im waiting for the next skyscale collection.

that timegate within a timegate thing (or pay gold to save a ton of time, of which most players dont have much of either) is EXTREMELY offputting to a casual loser like me. i love the game and have spent HUNDREDS of dollars on it over the years and wont quit or anything, but definitely will be playing less until i finish these collections. unless they release another major week long event to fill in the waiting time like immediately. do another world boss bonus loot event or something to give us something to do other than WAIT

[Zushada.6108]

@Ragnarox.9601 said:

@"Zushada.6108" said:Do you go to work for free? Do you go to a restaurant and demand free food? No. The game is giving you the OPTION of obtaining a FREE mount under their terms. With Griffon it was 250 Gold and Collections. This one is free and you have to put in a bit more work at a predetermined pace. These collections are not arduous; they are really easy and they encourage you go to different maps, complete events and work towards something fun yet OPTIONAL.

I really wish everyone would stop complaining about this and move on and enjoy the game. In LW3 we got Aurene and it required full story achieves to complete plus a bunch of wasted Xunlei Ingots. I literally just finished that collection bc I could not get the 2 achieves from the story in Bitterfrost (stay unfrosty and under 5 mins) so I put it aside for a while and did something else until I had everything I needed to craft it and the achieves done. Those who did not bother with LW3 map and story achievements had to do a lot more work on maps with low population at times; plus they had to complete the second collection and get the required T6 mats.

Understanding that LW3 was a Leg Trinket, this is really no different in principle. For those who use the argument "I only play an hour a night" the good news is that we do not need to get it all done in one night so the argument is irrelevant in this case. Right now, we have 7 mounts in this game and we really did not need another one and if ppl think they cannot get on in this game without the Skyscale, then they really need to reconsider if this is the right game for them. Everyone please, stop complaining about the timegate and realise that you are upset over a couple of collections that apply to an optional part of the game -- and it is just a game.

Dude comparing work and this is just wrong, and its not free you need items worth 200-300g to get it, so its not free. (plus we dont know 4 and 5th day timegated grind)

What items do we need that are 200-300 g to get? I haven't had a single aspect cost me gold and I am going into collection 3 at reset.

[Witch of Doom.5739]

Yesterday I voted no. Today I would vote a non-existent option -- some timegating is fine but weeks of it are not fun. No, I do not want nor expect everything immediately and I enjoy scavenger hunts. But to have timegates inside of timegates is just frustrating and I don't think ANet expected this much backlash.

[Aetheldrake.6395]

@Asum.4960 said:People vehemently defending the timegates seem rather confused.

For the argument that it encourages you to play the map and enjoy the Story, it does exactly the opposite of that.I enjoyed the new map so much I went through the Story and did map completion on two characters before looking at the collections and learning about the timesgates, after which there was no chance for me to hit the first time gate before reset, causing me to get stuck for essentially an entire day, not being able to progress further and play when I wanted to and could.

The game had actively punished me for taking my time with the content and wanting it to last instead of immediately rushing through everything and looking at all of the achievements/collections, which is something I'm probably going to take into future releases as negative mindset, impacting how I consume the content.

At the same time, rushing through the entire set of collections at a time, feeling the psychological pressure of having to get it done in order not to hit the timegate at a bad time when I wanted to keep going IS what completely burned me out, especially of the new map with the first three sub collections, more than doing them at my own pace without a timegate breathing down my neck ever would have.

Bringing in realism as argument for the timegates because realistically we would need to wait a day for these steps to happen has to be a troll, right?I'm not even going to tackle that beyond calling it out, because you can't be serious. If anything is an indicator for there being no argument for the timegates, it's people having to dig that deep.

Same with the same old entitlement shut down. Calling people who want to work overtime to get something entitled, just because the gating aligns with your slower pace causing you to not be affected, is rather silly.

Now I'm actually not super upset about the timegating, because honestly, these collections are a ridiculous amount of work and I probably would log out for some time frustrated after each one anyway. As mentioned, probably even sooner than I did, without the timegate pushing me to finish everything I could. But it's just not good design or serves any purpose, as well as having the potential to really screw some players, especially those who can't play often, but when they do like to really get into it and get stuff done.In turn, there is no upside to them.

EXACTLY, it feels like punishment. like to do everything in like 3 days or less then enjoy the game? PUNISHMENT. like to take your time and enjoy the game and eventually complete the collections maybe in like a week or two? PUNISHMENT. all of the bonus mounts were done in a day (except maybe griffon. im sure most people took more than a day because this was a new thing that wasnt handed to us and was slightly timegated through events but even moreso through people just trying to figure things out or spending time physically trying to get to the difficult locations)

warclaw? a day. beetle? a day. griffon? a few days but probably less since it's been a while and all the guides are out. still seeing people trying to get griffon even today. MONTHS LATER

[Aetheldrake.6395]

@Witch of Doom.5739 said:Yesterday I voted no. Today I would vote a non-existent option -- some timegating is fine but weeks of it are not fun. No, I do not want nor expect everything immediately and I enjoy scavenger hunts. But to have timegates inside of timegates is just frustrating and I don't think ANet expected this much backlash.

like 1 collection unlocks every day regardless of your progression and later in the week you can complete multiple collections in 1 day? perfectly fine.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Aetheldrake.6395 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

So what's the alternative... have those same player go off complete the skyscale in a few hours then log off and go play something else until the next content update.If your just logging in to do a collection then ignore the rest of the map content/the game in general... perhaps question why...

[Klowdy.3126]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@MrRuin.9740 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Then the design of the map is successful ... because Anet want people to do some, come back, etc ... that's why time gating exists. And that's not unreasonable ... because it's not designed so that you get everything done in one day then wonder why we don't have new content more often. It's all related and it's how any MMO works ... somehow you pay. And that somehow is what keeps you coming back and playing.The design is terrible. When you have to lock content behind a time gate to get them to come back, you're doing something wrong.People should be coming back to the map because it has fun, rewarding content. HoT is years old, yet years later and people still go back to those maps. I can do those metas far easier and frequently than the abandoned PoF ones.

There's so many other ways they could have done this to extend the time it took to get or level the Skyscale and they chose the laziest one by just sticking a time gate on it rather than fun content. That's all time gating is - a lazy way to get people to do content rather than making it enjoyable enough they do it anyway of their own volition.

Experiences may vary, but when I do the HoT metas, there is a group (small or large) on the map talking about how they are tired of said map, or the meta we are working on about 70% of the time. People do HoT stuff because its rewarding, even if they hate it. I would call that bad design, as well.

How is it bad design if something someone is tired of doing/playing is rewarding?

Because they are still doing something they dislike for rewards. It is no longer fun, but people feel obligated to do those maps, or lose out.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think it's funny someone complains about the time gate ... I guess spending 250G is more to your liking?

From a brand new account, by the time I got to the end of PoF story, I had 500g in the bank. The collection for the Gryphon took me about a week, off and on, between doing fractals, WvW and metas.

The Beetle collection took me a weekend, 3 months after it was released, as I didn't really care about it and procrastinated that chapter of LW.

I was more interested in the Skyscale than the Beetle, but based on what I'm seeing of the collection, I may just give it a pass, since I already have the Gryphon.

EDIT: in addition, if you have enough resources and gold, you could technically craft any of the Gen 1 or Gen 2 legendary weapons in the same day. If you're very hardcore, you could even do the collections for the Gen 1 / 2 Precursors in the same day.

So now we are saying the Skyscale is more "prestigious" than legendary weapons?

You're going to have back up a bit ... I don't know what legendary weapons have to do with this so I'm just ignore that.

MMO's make you pay .... one way or the other. The whole reason these threads exist is that people don't want to 'pay', regardless of currency ...BUT

if I had to pay, it's 'cheaper' with a time-gate than it is with gold.

The Legendary bit wasn't in response to you, but I've seen many people comparing the mount to legendary grinds in terms of it's cost/ prestige.

But I disagree that this is an issue of 'cost'. As I said, by the time I got to where I needed 250g for the Gryphon, I had double that in my account. When I got to the Beetle collection, the only time gates in place were: did I miss "x" event and have to wait for it come around again. Raptor, Jackal, Skimmer, Springer, Warclaw, all were either free, required a small cost in gold (8g for Warclaw / 25g for Jackal IIRC) or required heart completion / collection.

The common thread there is all were attainable by players at their own pace. I had a guildy who played WvW 5hrs straight to get the Warclaw. I myself did the Beetle collection over a weekend, the hardest part was the SW beetle since it was months after the content had gone live.

Nothing released so far in this game justifies how ANET is handling this mount....except perhaps Aurora.

There are far far far more players flying the Gryphon than those who own Aurora. That says everything about people's stomach for lengthy time gates vs willingness to spend gold.

Aurora is exactly what it should be compared to. It's the end content for LS3, the mount is the end content for LS4.Maybe you guys are correct and they should have advertised it that way. But the amount of work required makes sense. It's by no mean mandatory either, just like Aurora.

That's fine if you want to point us the failure of advertising it, but having to go back to different LS4 maps is great. A game is there to be played.

But Aurora is a Legendary, and like you said, it was the final bit of LS S3, so it's basically a Legendary + LW S3 farming and time gating. It's more work than most legendaries, but it is itself a legendary item. If you don't like G1 or G2 legendaries, chances are you won't like Aurora.

But a mount isn't a legendary, nor should it be compared to it. The Gryphon was the "final bit" of PoF technically, yet the collection requirement is nowhere near as close to the same degree as Skyscale (as much as we know so far).

Be honest: when you saw the trailer for the skyscale, did you, or anyone, imagine this is what the requirement would be? I seriously doubt it. Most if not all assumed it would be a collection similar to Gryphon, requiring metas / events / collections across LS S4 maps, along with a gold price tag; many worried it would cost the same if not more than the Gryphon.

If ANET wanted a LW S4 version or Aurora, then the should have released a Legendary Ring or Amulet or something. By the way, the heavy time gating for Aurora was pretty much Draconis Mons. Many said that doing that grind caused them to hate going to Mons, and soured their desire to ever go back. I wonder what people will say about Dragonfall after people manage to complete this grind?

So I disagree, mounts are not legendaries, and should not be used as a comparison one to another.

I don't have a huge issue with collections or time gating, but I am deeply disappointed with how this new mount is acquired. I know what I'm getting into when I sign up for a legendary, and this is not what I was expecting when they started advertising a new mount; one, I might add, that has questionable benefit for anyone who already has a Gryphon.

Let's agree to disagree then, a mount that is 100% optional can serve as legendary. It's not advertised as such though and I get the problem.

And to answer your question, I wasn't expecting this requirement, but I was hoping for high requirement. I want to enjoy the game and have long goals to work towards to. I've taken a break simply because I had nothing left to do beside wvw, and this gave me a purpose.Now, could it be a more interesting journey? Certainly so.

[Faaris.8013]

@everybody who loves time gates and doesn't want other players to enjoy doing stuff faster while they can still play at their own pace, unbothered by what other people do: Why do you even argue for this? Are you incapable of setting your own schedule and need game developers do that for you? What keeps you from setting up a plan to do specific collections at specific intervals to time gate yourself? Why are you so concerned about other peoples' schedules, this isn't even competitive content. Does it bother you when other players rush through content because it's not the way you prefer to play the game?

The mere fact that people clutter the forums, twitter and reddit with this clearly shows that they have nothing better to do two days after the new episode was launched. I would rather get the collections done right now than posting here, and I'm pretty sure this is a mutual feeling shared with many who voted YES.

[Ototo.3214]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@"Deihnyx.6318" said:

Where does the stress come from?Like, if you get it a couple days later than some people, does it bring stress?It wasn't in the game for years, it never brought stress before, why does the prospect of other people having it earlier make it all suddenly awful?

Like, maybe some retrospective could help in this case, there's no point stressing over that, we'll all get it eventually

Is it really that hard for people to understand that people want to work toward something?

Time gating doesn't prevent that. In fact, it's ensures a path to working toward a goal.

How is afking around, waiting for reset, work?

Seems to work fine. I mean ... that's a disingenuous way imply you have to 'wait' in a game where there is lots of content to play, but that's your choice. You're not going to make a case that time gating is bad because you have nothing to do except go AFK ... that's absurd.

But none of the other content progresses the thing I want to put in work for. The time gate itself is not providing some great effort to work toward completing, it's just there to artificially stretch time. Regardless of what else I'm "working" on while waiting for reset, I'm still just waiting with respect to the mount collections. Then, if I don't want to wait yet another unnecessary 24 hours, I have to speed run the next step of the collections or be locked out.

So basically, if you want to work for something, you don't want it time gated? Well ... to bad I guess. I won't assume why Anet made this time gated, but I'm pretty sure whether or not you or anyone else likes it because they want to work for something didn't influence that decision.

Again, time gating doesn't prevent you from working towards what you want. It's just imposes intervals on you for completion.

It actually quite literally prevents you from working on it when you have the time to do so.

And people complain about things in the game they invest time in and often spend money on because the developers should be listening to feedback from their players. If something had a ton of backlash it should be addressed. If you're ok with whatever is thrown at you, good on you. But some of us are going to voice our concerns instead of just taking it. Our people will just leave the game, which I don't think should be the intent of a new update.

[sigur.9453]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Aetheldrake.6395 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

So what's the alternative... have those same player go off complete the skyscale in a few hours then log off and go play something else until the next content update.If your just logging in to do a collection then ignore the rest of the map content/the game in general... perhaps question why...

If the game has nothing else to offer than an artificial time gate, probably yes. But then it's on the devs to ask "why are people not playing out content? ".

[Ototo.3214]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:I'm fine with doing collections. I'm fine with the collections taking 30+ hours. But let me do it at my own pace. I hate feeling like I have to rush to finish the kitten thing each day and can't stop to just...play fractals with friends or anything like that because if I don't finish it before reset, I have to wait another 24 hours before I can do anything. It's unneeded stress and frustration for a collection I'd otherwise really enjoy.

But you don't, because you can't rush time gated content. If you feel like that, that's a player problem.

You see, the big problem I have here is that no one complains they are stressed when content ISN'T time gated but they should be because it does get harder to do group content when it isn't

... but when your forced by the game to progress content in steps over time .. THAT is stressful? That doesn't make sense.

I think you are taking his words too literallyI think he means like me for example i did nothing till the reset yesterday and rushed to complete the egg magic gathering collection so that that i wouldnt have to worry about not finishing it before reset it took about 4 hours doing it with a group.

After that i was done didn't do dailies, fractals, or play dragonfall at all i was pretty much done.Based on what im hearing for the next step ill be feeding a skyscale 3 times then today I might do fractals if they are any i particularly like after which ill going to prob stop and play another game.

If there are going to be more time gates within time gates the ESO new chapter early access is looking more and more lovely by the day. At which point i could be playing that and logging into gw2 just to feed a train a pet thats not a pet 3 times a day.

Ideally we are still rushing content because no one wants to wait an extra day if they dont have to. And because the mount is the main focus for so many people it easily pushes other forms of content to the side.

The decision to rush is a player issue and I doesn't make sense to make an argument based on it. All content gets rushed by people to some degree, but for some reason when it's time gated, rushing it all the sudden a big problem for you? That doesn't make sense.

Just be honest here ... you just want the mount without artificial restrictions imposed on you. Feeling like you have to rush content is not a compelling argument to not have time gates.

Except the time gate is causing people to rush the collections within that given day. Many of my friends started the collection for the mount and were taking their time because they didn't think it had some stupid time gate to it. Then when they found out it was gated, they started rushing it.

[Menadena.7482]

@"miraude.2107" said:Arenanet, you might as well just start putting any new mounts here on out in the cash shop the way ESO does so you can at least get some revenue for your work if people want something as special as this to be instant gratification.The community is getting a new, shiny mount for FREE because all we have to do is log in to get the episode and all we have to do is actually play the game to get it. At least show some respect to the devs and actually play the game? I mean this isn't the griffon, you can actually stay in the air with this mount. Anyone notice that the endurance bar fills when you descend and you can fly back up (I think a lot of you didn't notice that judging from the yes votes)? I spent at least 45 minutes in the air messing around with that alone and never touched the ground in Dragonfall! Getting this mount means that I can easily avoid nearly everything in Tyria/HoT/PoF because there are few to no aerial threats to speak of in game. It makes sense that a mount like this can and should be time-gated, to make it worth the effort of getting it. So no, there is nothing wrong with this being time-gated as I can easily see this becoming a WvW/PvP nightmare and hearing the complaints on that end the moment it does start appearing.

Actually, I would LOVE to buy it from a vendor or whatever, use the regional currency and/or volatile magic. Even keep the time delay until I get it if someone insists. What I care about is this is gated behind content that is not exactly amenable to someone with epilepsy. I could sense how my brain was responding as I tried to get the blood yesterday (yes, I know I was not that far off the ground in RL but my brain does not know that, it was freaking out at the vertigo) and then the same will happen plus flashing lights in the instance.

Yes, I know this is a flying mount but I control how high I fly. Staying 20' off the "ground" most of the time is fine with me, especially since I can fly down as often as I want.

[octagon.6504]

I didn't get the last mount because I prefer not to do PvP. Now looking at what's required to get this mount I actually had a thought to A: Skip this mount also. B: Perhaps it's time to move on to playing just the other two MMO's I play regularly and leave this one alone, as at the rate I play I probably wouldn't get the mount for a few months. I'll work on the collections today and see. This game gets more and more restrictive and forced in how content should be played. Also I stopped doing daily's when they updated the format a long time ago. Perhaps this game really isn't for me anymore.

[Ashen.2907]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think it's funny someone complains about the time gate ... I guess spending 250G is more to your liking?

From a brand new account, by the time I got to the end of PoF story, I had 500g in the bank. The collection for the Gryphon took me about a week, off and on, between doing fractals, WvW and metas.

The Beetle collection took me a weekend, 3 months after it was released, as I didn't really care about it and procrastinated that chapter of LW.

I was more interested in the Skyscale than the Beetle, but based on what I'm seeing of the collection, I may just give it a pass, since I already have the Gryphon.

EDIT: in addition, if you have enough resources and gold, you could technically craft any of the Gen 1 or Gen 2 legendary weapons in the same day. If you're very hardcore, you could even do the collections for the Gen 1 / 2 Precursors in the same day.

So now we are saying the Skyscale is more "prestigious" than legendary weapons?

You're going to have back up a bit ... I don't know what legendary weapons have to do with this so I'm just ignore that.

MMO's make you pay .... one way or the other. The whole reason these threads exist is that people don't want to 'pay', regardless of currency ...BUT

if I had to pay, it's 'cheaper' with a time-gate than it is with gold.

The Legendary bit wasn't in response to you, but I've seen many people comparing the mount to legendary grinds in terms of it's cost/ prestige.

But I disagree that this is an issue of 'cost'. As I said, by the time I got to where I needed 250g for the Gryphon, I had double that in my account. When I got to the Beetle collection, the only time gates in place were: did I miss "x" event and have to wait for it come around again. Raptor, Jackal, Skimmer, Springer, Warclaw, all were either free, required a small cost in gold (8g for Warclaw / 25g for Jackal IIRC) or required heart completion / collection.

The common thread there is all were attainable by players at their own pace. I had a guildy who played WvW 5hrs straight to get the Warclaw. I myself did the Beetle collection over a weekend, the hardest part was the SW beetle since it was months after the content had gone live.

Nothing released so far in this game justifies how ANET is handling this mount....except perhaps Aurora.

There are far far far more players flying the Gryphon than those who own Aurora. That says everything about people's stomach for lengthy time gates vs willingness to spend gold.

Aurora is exactly what it should be compared to. It's the end content for LS3, the mount is the end content for LS4.Maybe you guys are correct and they should have advertised it that way. But the amount of work required makes sense. It's by no mean mandatory either, just like Aurora.

That's fine if you want to point us the failure of advertising it, but having to go back to different LS4 maps is great. A game is there to be played.

But Aurora is a Legendary, and like you said, it was the final bit of LS S3, so it's basically a Legendary + LW S3 farming and time gating. It's more work than most legendaries, but it is itself a legendary item. If you don't like G1 or G2 legendaries, chances are you won't like Aurora.

But a mount isn't a legendary, nor should it be compared to it. The Gryphon was the "final bit" of PoF technically, yet the collection requirement is nowhere near as close to the same degree as Skyscale (as much as we know so far).

Be honest: when you saw the trailer for the skyscale, did you, or anyone, imagine this is what the requirement would be? I seriously doubt it. Most if not all assumed it would be a collection similar to Gryphon, requiring metas / events / collections across LS S4 maps, along with a gold price tag; many worried it would cost the same if not more than the Gryphon.

If ANET wanted a LW S4 version or Aurora, then the should have released a Legendary Ring or Amulet or something. By the way, the heavy time gating for Aurora was pretty much Draconis Mons. Many said that doing that grind caused them to hate going to Mons, and soured their desire to ever go back. I wonder what people will say about Dragonfall after people manage to complete this grind?

So I disagree, mounts are not legendaries, and should not be used as a comparison one to another.

I don't have a huge issue with collections or time gating, but I am deeply disappointed with how this new mount is acquired. I know what I'm getting into when I sign up for a legendary, and this is not what I was expecting when they started advertising a new mount; one, I might add, that has questionable benefit for anyone who already has a Gryphon.

Let's agree to disagree then, a mount that is 100% optional can serve as legendary. It's not advertised as such though and I get the problem.

And to answer your question, I wasn't expecting this requirement, but I was hoping for high requirement. I want to enjoy the game and have long goals to work towards to. I've taken a break simply because I had nothing left to do beside wvw, and this gave me a purpose.Now, could it be a more interesting journey? Certainly so.

Does this serving as your reason to leave wvw mean that once you get it you wont have a use for it.?

I tend to prefer the idea of playing a new map with the new, whatever it is, added to that map. The idea of getting the new, whatever that map's thing is, at the end seems counterintuitive to me.

People are claiming that the timegate is to keep people on the map. This means that they believe that people wouldnt stay on the map without it. This means that they think that people will be done with the map when they are done with the gated collections. This means that they expect people to finally get the mount just as they are done with the map designed for its use. Then back to wvw where the mount cant be used.

[PuppyMischief.7584]

I'm Voting no I feel as if kids and yes I'm saying kids because I believe that most of the yeses are from people that have the ability to sit at the computer for 12 hours a day. Do people not like working for things in mmos anymore? I believe this is an issue with most people wanting instant gratification now a days. I've enjoyed every collection so far because they take you on a journey through your story remembering the past. To me this feels like the end of season 3 when Aurora came out I feel that its no different suck it up sometimes you have to work for things that you want.

[Ashen.2907]

@PuppyMischief.7584 said:I'm Voting no I feel as if kids and yes I'm saying kids because I believe that most of the yeses are from people that have the ability to sit at the computer for 12 hours a day. Do people not like working for things in mmos anymore? I believe this is an issue with most people wanting instant gratification now a days. I've enjoyed every collection so far because they take you on a journey through your story remembering the past. To me this feels like the end of season 3 when Aurora came out I feel that its no different suck it up sometimes you have to work for things that you want.

A kid might lack the reading comprehnsion necessary to recognize that asking to be allowed to work on a goal, while ANet says no, is the opposite of not wanting to work for things in an MMO.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think it's funny someone complains about the time gate ... I guess spending 250G is more to your liking?

From a brand new account, by the time I got to the end of PoF story, I had 500g in the bank. The collection for the Gryphon took me about a week, off and on, between doing fractals, WvW and metas.

The Beetle collection took me a weekend, 3 months after it was released, as I didn't really care about it and procrastinated that chapter of LW.

I was more interested in the Skyscale than the Beetle, but based on what I'm seeing of the collection, I may just give it a pass, since I already have the Gryphon.

EDIT: in addition, if you have enough resources and gold, you could technically craft any of the Gen 1 or Gen 2 legendary weapons in the same day. If you're very hardcore, you could even do the collections for the Gen 1 / 2 Precursors in the same day.

So now we are saying the Skyscale is more "prestigious" than legendary weapons?

You're going to have back up a bit ... I don't know what legendary weapons have to do with this so I'm just ignore that.

MMO's make you pay .... one way or the other. The whole reason these threads exist is that people don't want to 'pay', regardless of currency ...BUT

if I had to pay, it's 'cheaper' with a time-gate than it is with gold.

The Legendary bit wasn't in response to you, but I've seen many people comparing the mount to legendary grinds in terms of it's cost/ prestige.

But I disagree that this is an issue of 'cost'. As I said, by the time I got to where I needed 250g for the Gryphon, I had double that in my account. When I got to the Beetle collection, the only time gates in place were: did I miss "x" event and have to wait for it come around again. Raptor, Jackal, Skimmer, Springer, Warclaw, all were either free, required a small cost in gold (8g for Warclaw / 25g for Jackal IIRC) or required heart completion / collection.

The common thread there is all were attainable by players at their own pace. I had a guildy who played WvW 5hrs straight to get the Warclaw. I myself did the Beetle collection over a weekend, the hardest part was the SW beetle since it was months after the content had gone live.

Nothing released so far in this game justifies how ANET is handling this mount....except perhaps Aurora.

There are far far far more players flying the Gryphon than those who own Aurora. That says everything about people's stomach for lengthy time gates vs willingness to spend gold.

Aurora is exactly what it should be compared to. It's the end content for LS3, the mount is the end content for LS4.Maybe you guys are correct and they should have advertised it that way. But the amount of work required makes sense. It's by no mean mandatory either, just like Aurora.

That's fine if you want to point us the failure of advertising it, but having to go back to different LS4 maps is great. A game is there to be played.

But Aurora is a Legendary, and like you said, it was the final bit of LS S3, so it's basically a Legendary + LW S3 farming and time gating. It's more work than most legendaries, but it is itself a legendary item. If you don't like G1 or G2 legendaries, chances are you won't like Aurora.

But a mount isn't a legendary, nor should it be compared to it. The Gryphon was the "final bit" of PoF technically, yet the collection requirement is nowhere near as close to the same degree as Skyscale (as much as we know so far).

Be honest: when you saw the trailer for the skyscale, did you, or anyone, imagine this is what the requirement would be? I seriously doubt it. Most if not all assumed it would be a collection similar to Gryphon, requiring metas / events / collections across LS S4 maps, along with a gold price tag; many worried it would cost the same if not more than the Gryphon.

If ANET wanted a LW S4 version or Aurora, then the should have released a Legendary Ring or Amulet or something. By the way, the heavy time gating for Aurora was pretty much Draconis Mons. Many said that doing that grind caused them to hate going to Mons, and soured their desire to ever go back. I wonder what people will say about Dragonfall after people manage to complete this grind?

So I disagree, mounts are not legendaries, and should not be used as a comparison one to another.

I don't have a huge issue with collections or time gating, but I am deeply disappointed with how this new mount is acquired. I know what I'm getting into when I sign up for a legendary, and this is not what I was expecting when they started advertising a new mount; one, I might add, that has questionable benefit for anyone who already has a Gryphon.

Let's agree to disagree then, a mount that is 100% optional can serve as legendary. It's not advertised as such though and I get the problem.

And to answer your question, I wasn't expecting this requirement, but I was hoping for high requirement. I want to enjoy the game and have long goals to work towards to. I've taken a break simply because I had nothing left to do beside wvw, and this gave me a purpose.Now, could it be a more interesting journey? Certainly so.

Does this serving as your reason to leave wvw mean that once you get it you wont have a use for it.?

I tend to prefer the idea of playing a new map with the new, whatever it is, added to that map. The idea of getting the new, whatever that map's thing is, at the end seems counterintuitive to me.

People are claiming that the timegate is to keep people on the map. This means that they believe that people wouldnt stay on the map without it. This means that they think that people will be done with the map when they are done with the gated collections. This means that they expect people to finally get the mount just as they are done with the map designed for its use. Then back to wvw where the mount cant be used.

Not sure if I'll have use for it, I collect every skin for the sake of completion.

And well my goal on wvw was to get -all- the mistforged skins, which I did. It was timegated (heavily, we're talking 2+ years timegate) but it kept me going. Otherwise I wouldn't have done much beside 2 hours with my guild a week.The video game market is over-saturated and it's easy to see why a company would try to ensure that you will stick around. I'm not saying it makes sense for everyone, but I'd bet that more people will be playing the game because of this trick than leaving it.

[Zexanima.7851]

@"PuppyMischief.7584" said:I'm Voting no I feel as if kids and yes I'm saying kids because I believe that most of the yeses are from people that have the ability to sit at the computer for 12 hours a day. Do people not like working for things in mmos anymore? I believe this is an issue with most people wanting instant gratification now a days. I've enjoyed every collection so far because they take you on a journey through your story remembering the past. To me this feels like the end of season 3 when Aurora came out I feel that its no different suck it up sometimes you have to work for things that you want.

What you "feel" is the reason for people disliking the time gate is not based on what people are actually saying. Many people have already explained how their reasoning has nothing to do with instant gratification but how pointless time gating is an attempt at anet to control how they spend their time. It's more similar to a skinner box mobile game than an MMO. You have to 'suck it up' when you go to work, pay a bill or do yard work. If you're having to 'suck it up' to play a video game then the game isn't doing what it's suppose to, providing you fun and entertainment.

[Wiler.9873]

People that votes no are sick... all they use as excuse is "it relax" or "you can sit 12hour to play" or "it's like they want us to play the game"

I won't relax with anxietyI can't sit myself for 12h and probably my all guild mates and I are old enough to be the fathers and mothers of the guys who wrote this.I play as I want to play on my own phase, if you want to take a month to unlock some stupid collection THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM YOUR PERSONAL CHOISE don't force it upon others.

[PuppyMischief.7584]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"PuppyMischief.7584" said:I'm Voting no I feel as if kids and yes I'm saying kids because I believe that most of the yeses are from people that have the ability to sit at the computer for 12 hours a day. Do people not like working for things in mmos anymore? I believe this is an issue with most people wanting instant gratification now a days. I've enjoyed every collection so far because they take you on a journey through your story remembering the past. To me this feels like the end of season 3 when Aurora came out I feel that its no different suck it up sometimes you have to work for things that you want.

What you "feel" is the reason for people disliking the time gate is not based on what people are actually saying. Many people have already explained how their reasoning has nothing to do with instant gratification but how pointless time gating is an attempt at anet to control how they spend their time. It's more similar to a skinner box mobile game than an MMO. You have to 'suck it up' when you go to work, pay a bill or do yard work. If you're having to 'suck it up' to play a video game then the game isn't doing what it's suppose to, providing you fun and entertainment.

Well these are my opinions time gating has existed since ascended armor in Guild Wars 2. So yes suck it up.

[Roquen.5406]

I guess I could use myself as an example. I have not had so much time to play this week. I will probably get to play Friday evening/Saturday but because of the way this is time-gated. I'll only be able to do a small portion. Then I will have to wait until the next weekend for the next step, until I get blocked by "wait until reset". So once again, I am being punished because I cannot play everyday and it seems arbitrary. Is it the end of the world that it will take me 4-9 weeks + to finish this? No, but it just seems dumb to stop me from progressing at my own pace.

This current system punishes people that can bulk their play into a few days. Tell me, if we both put in 10 hours, why is your time rewarded more than mine? Because if you play 1 hour a day every day currently, you can keep making progress. If I put 5 hours Friday/5 hours Saturday I can only make so much progress because of this "rewarding" system.

All of you argue it is good for the game but to me it just screams that they have no faith in their product. If they did they would not need to do things like this to try to keep me playing, they would know the game itself is done well enough to do that itself.