No Mount = Garbage

[Obtena.7952]

The game loses players just like all other games for many reasons, not just the specific ones you think just to draw attention to what you want fixed. As the other poster mentioned, it's a general trend. If there are games out there with long term player increases, they are definitely the exception. I see no reason to think that GW2 is one of those games, EVEN with the market they target.

As I already explained, dead traits and balance are completely independent. They do not influence each other at all. Whatever relationship you think is there isn't. I think you are confusing balance with build diversity ... again, these things aren't related either. It's not possible to continue a rational discussion with someone that lumps all their issues into one 'balance' catch all grab bag.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@"Obtena.7952" said:The game loses players just like all other games for many reasons, not just the specific ones you think just to draw attention to what you want fixed. As the other poster mentioned, it's a general trend. If there are games out there with long term player increases, they are definitely the exception. I see no reason to think that GW2 is one of those games, EVEN with the market they target.

As I already explained, dead traits and balance are completely independent. They do not influence each other at all. Whatever relationship you think is there isn't. I think you are confusing balance with build diversity ... again, these things aren't related either. It's not possible to continue a rational discussion with someone that lumps all their issues into one 'balance' catch all grab bag.

Common sense. And if a game wants to thrive, especially a PvP game, it needs to make sure it maintains a healthy balance for continuous gameplay. You can keep denying the facts if you want, but the current situation the game is in in regards to its PvP is from the anet having the same mindset as you have when it comes to the longevity of the game.

"Lets ignore the facts because our game is going to die anyways, so lets just add in whatever we can to milk the money out of remaining bunch before the mode truly dies for good."

If you think dead traits and abilities has nothing to do with balance and build diversity then of course a rational discussion can never be had. Sorry for trying to give you a second try at this.

[Dawdler.8521]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:You can keep denying the facts if you wantSpeaking of which, do we have the numbers to back up the massive population decrease claims? Comparisons to previous years? Or are there no real facts, just player impressions?

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"iKeostuKen.2738" said:You can keep denying the facts if you wantSpeaking of which, do we have the numbers to back up the massive population decrease claims? Comparisons to previous years? Or are there no real facts, just player impressions?

Speaking of which... Why are you pulling a quote out of context on something that it wasnt pointed to?

Anyways, Numbers of a "massive population decrease(your words, not mine)" are the cause of relinking and alliances, no? You dont need published numbers if you have common sense to figure out that the population has declined. Do a bit of research and prove me wrong.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Just a thought, but WoW is probably an outlier when it comes to growth and longevity, and it's probably best not to make too many arguments based on how that game did. When it came out there weren't many options for that sort of game besides WoW, if I chose to leave GW2 now there's several MMOs that I could swap to. Different market these days and all that.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Just a thought, but WoW is probably an outlier when it comes to growth and longevity, and it's probably best not to make too many arguments based on how that game did. When it came out there weren't many options for that sort of game besides WoW, if I chose to leave GW2 now there's several MMOs that I could swap to. Different market these days and all that.

There was actually way more options back then for mmorpgs then there are now currently.

Fiesta, maplestory, everquest, lineage 2, perfect world, flyff, guilds wars1. But those are just the ones that had ridiculous playerbase sizes even when halo 3 and mw2 were a thing ?

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Just a thought, but WoW is probably an outlier when it comes to growth and longevity, and it's probably best not to make too many arguments based on how that game did. When it came out there weren't many options for that sort of game besides WoW, if I chose to leave GW2 now there's several MMOs that I could swap to. Different market these days and all that.

There was actually way more options back then for mmorpgs then there are now currently.

Fiesta, maplestory, everquest, lineage 2, perfect world, flyff, guilds wars1. But those are just the ones that had ridiculous playerbase sizes even when halo 3 and mw2 were a thing ?

Ah, fair play, I stand corrected then ^^

[Teratus.2859]

This is exactly why I was hoping the Warclaw would be a core game mount and not require PoF to unlock..

[Solaris.2489]

The only problem that is debatable is that it requires PoF , otherwise always upgrading your char to max efficiency is a requirement in a competitive game mode and should be done by everyone with no whining or complaining to give your team the edge. If you need money for PoF, mow a lawn, wash a car or just plain beg for money in the city with a sign saying I need money for a MMO mount, I would certainly give someone 1€ if I saw that =)

[Obtena.7952]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The game loses players just like all other games for many reasons, not just the specific ones you think just to draw attention to what you want fixed. As the other poster mentioned, it's a general trend. If there are games out there with long term player increases, they are definitely the exception. I see no reason to think that GW2 is one of those games, EVEN with the market they target.

As I already explained, dead traits and balance are completely independent. They do not influence each other at all. Whatever relationship you think is there isn't. I think you are confusing balance with build diversity ... again, these things aren't related either. It's not possible to continue a rational discussion with someone that lumps all their issues into one 'balance' catch all grab bag.

Common sense. And if a game wants to thrive, especially a PvP game, it needs to make sure it maintains a healthy balance for continuous gameplay. You can keep denying the facts if you want, ....

My favourite part is where I'm still right: population decline is a general trend in MMO's. At this point the people for which balance is an issue ... they have already left. What you got at this point are people who don't care or people that just deal with it. No one at this point in the game should be on the fence for leaving because of balance ... if they are, it's because they are bluffing with bad hands and love losing.

I'm not sure when you decided to start making general statements and telling me I'm denying them. It's a rank amateur approach to engaging me in a discussion.

If you think dead traits and abilities has nothing to do with balance and build diversity then of course a rational discussion can never be had.

Unless you're going to explain yourself better, just saying things doesn't make them right, especially when they are contrary to the reality of the game. I gave you my reasons for why I think that. I will wait for whatever yours are when you present them.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:

My favourite part is where I'm still right: population decline is a general trend in MMO's. At this point the people for which balance is an issue ... they have already left. What you got at this point are people who don't care or people that just deal with it. No one at this point in the game should be on the fence for leaving because of balance ... if they are, it's because they are bluffing with bad hands and love losing.

Your favorite part is that your right about a game losing players overtime? Am I supposed to clap for such a obvious statement? Its a no brainer if the game isnt getting actual content for what players want to play. And players are always going to be on the fence on balance changes, if anet decided to build in epidemic onto shroud f1 through a trait you dont think people would leave? Especially in WvW where the chances of them getting condi bombed is beyond natural? Its not bluffing is just being fed up.

I'm not sure when you decided to start making general statements and telling me I'm denying them. It's a rank amateur approach to engaging me in a discussion.

You are the one that thought this was a PvE centered thread where players were asking for PoF content on a f2p account before....soooooUnless you're going to explain yourself better, just saying things doesn't make them right, especially when they are contrary to the reality of the game. I gave you my reasons for why I think that. I will wait for whatever yours are when you present them.It seems I can explain why the sun is hot and you still would try to find a way to deflect it or just that much into denial. I may have to just assume your a forum troll at this point.

[Dhemize.8649]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Furthermore,

dead traits aren't related to balance.

We could have amazing balance and still have lots of dead traits. Likewise, we could have no dead traits and terrible balance. There is zero correlation there. Same with build diversity.

What?

Dude, I don't know either. This has gone so far off into crazyland. Simply put: try playing rock-paper-scissors but with the paper option as a dead trait. Most will pick rock and scissor players will complain about lack of paper. Ta-da. Balance and dead traits.

[Obtena.7952]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

My favourite part is where I'm still right: population decline is a general trend in MMO's. At this point the people for which balance is an issue ... they have already left. What you got at this point are people who don't care or people that just deal with it. No one at this point in the game should be on the fence for leaving because of balance ... if they are, it's because they are bluffing with bad hands and love losing.

Your favorite part is that your right about a game losing players overtime?

Yes, because that's a general trend to MMO's. You're trying to twist population trending into something you think can be manipulated with 'good balance' to justify pushing Anet to target whatever issues you think should be fixed. That's just absurd. Seven years in ... NO one is playing this game because of balance, good or bad. That ship has sailed. If balance was important to someone, they already left. If they are still here, it's not important enough to them. I'm not saying Anet should give up but we definitely know what kind of balancing we are going to get in this game at this point. Stop kidding yourself.

@Dhemize.8649 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Furthermore,

dead traits aren't related to balance.

We could have amazing balance and still have lots of dead traits. Likewise, we could have no dead traits and terrible balance. There is zero correlation there. Same with build diversity.

What?

Dude, I don't know either. This has gone so far off into crazyland. Simply put: try playing rock-paper-scissors but with the paper option as a dead trait. Most will pick rock and scissor players will complain about lack of paper. Ta-da. Balance and dead traits.

The fact is that you can have rock and scissors and have balance, even if you don't have paper. What's to not understand? Let's put it this way ... if Rock guaranteed me balance, I couldn't give a rats ass about paper or scissors. You CAN have balance with dead traits. They are not related.

[Dagre.2185]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:There should be some sort of mount rental available. Be it a coin sink or a badge sink but some way for people to rent them when they don't have their own. Have my mount but it is a discouragement to people coming in/back in after they have been released.

haven't played in a couple years or so. i read about the mounts with expansion. i figured since it was tied to expansion that they weren't added to wvw. i was just redownloading the game as i found out mounts are a thing in wvw. considering wvw is what i tend to spend most of my gw2 time doing i'm not sure i'll even finish downloading the game at this point. just wasted the day hyping the game up to my gf so she'd play something other than wow.

@Matsumori Oukanishi.8794 said:I personally hate mounts in any pvp game. It's what killed world pvp in Wow. But i know complaining about it probably won't get Anet to change anything. So knowing mounts are here to stay in WvW, i got my warclaw in 3 evenings without Perma-swiftness. It is doable but not fun.

But i would be all for mount rentals, or having a passenger on your mount. I would love for the warclaw to disappear but we all know that ain't happening.

EDIT: if they do mount rentals, i do think it needs to be for people who have purchased PoF though. F2P players don't need to be catered to.

flying mounts yes. still plenty of pvp with ground mounts only first half of each expansion. then again, blizzard themselves even admitted flying mounts was one of the worst things they ever did to the game.

rentals would be nice.

all i know is that i won't be buying an expansion solely to have mounts in wvw. it feels like a slimy f2p monetization decision and i never give those types of games a penny as soon as i encounter that type of design. glad i ran into this issue before i bought us the expansion.

anyways, i've looked around and haven't noticed anything about rentals in wvw. hope its in, i'm disappointed so far.

[Mizhas.8536]

For those who speak about that there is no problem, just get your mount and shut up...

1. There are new players that just came as F2P and they don't have access to the mount. It sucks.
2. There are old players that come back to gove the game another opportunity and they face this as well. It sucks.
3. Any new player (with PoF) that tries to give a chance to WvW faces the need to grind the mount just for start playing the game mode normally. It sucks.

Let's not talk then about the silliness of allowing mounted players to go through all CCs completely by the face and without a scratch.

The only good thing about mounts is that it has increased the rate of combats that you may be able to get since everyone moves faster from one place to another. However, all the previous things really need to be fixed if Anet wants some kind of future for WvW.

[hayabusafmw.9370]

Start using lagswitch? Some servers use it seems to be working just fine without any consequences? .... Really need to get your mount seriously ;)

[Cyninja.2954]

@Mizhas.8536 said:For those who speak about that there is no problem, just get your mount and shut up...

1. There are new players that just came as F2P and they don't have access to the mount. It sucks.

Any player who comes into a new MMO often faces disadvantages. Most other MMOs don't hand out the base game for free AND allow you to access all endgame content without any investment financially on top of that.

Playing on a f2p account is no guarantee that you never need to spend money on this game and it shouldn't. If you are unwilling or unable to purchase HoT and/or PoF (which are on sale almost regularly by now), you are not very high on the priority list of target customers. All you provide is another body for the game mode who will consume resources and not return any profit.

As far as the 6-8 hours to get the mount, if you are unwilling to invest those, you wouldn't hang around in WvW anyway. So no loss there.

@Mizhas.8536 said:

2. There are old players that come back to gove the game another opportunity and they face this as well. It sucks.
3. Any new player (with PoF) that tries to give a chance to WvW faces the need to grind the mount just for start playing the game mode normally. It sucks.

Same principle: if you can't spend 6-8 hours to get the mount, you were never interested in the game mode. I'm personally not against offering a temporary Warclaw for people who have access to PoF, though I'm quite sure that would make a lot of f2p players rage even more.

@Mizhas.8536 said:Let's not talk then about the silliness of allowing mounted players to go through all CCs completely by the face and without a scratch.

It has changed the game mode, yes. There si some things I like and some I dislike. For example: I personally like the fact that I can close to the blob on my support build without being free food for gankers, sorry roamers.

@Mizhas.8536 said:The only good thing about mounts is that it has increased the rate of combats that you may be able to get since everyone moves faster from one place to another. However, all the previous things really need to be fixed if Anet wants some kind of future for WvW.

More fights, more glory, unless you are part of the karma train PvE zerg. I'm not so faster ways to get back into the fight are good additions to me.

[Dhemize.8649]

@Dagre.2185 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:There should be some sort of mount rental available. Be it a coin sink or a badge sink but some way for people to rent them when they don't have their own. Have my mount but it is a discouragement to people coming in/back in after they have been released.

haven't played in a couple years or so. i read about the mounts with expansion. i figured since it was tied to expansion that they weren't added to wvw. i was just redownloading the game as i found out mounts are a thing in wvw. considering wvw is what i tend to spend most of my gw2 time doing i'm not sure i'll even finish downloading the game at this point. just wasted the day hyping the game up to my gf so she'd play something other than wow.

@Matsumori Oukanishi.8794 said:I personally hate mounts in any pvp game. It's what killed world pvp in Wow. But i know complaining about it probably won't get Anet to change anything. So knowing mounts are here to stay in WvW, i got my warclaw in 3 evenings without Perma-swiftness. It is doable but not fun.

But i would be all for mount rentals, or having a passenger on your mount. I would love for the warclaw to disappear but we all know that ain't happening.

EDIT: if they do mount rentals, i do think it needs to be for people who have purchased PoF though. F2P players don't need to be catered to.

flying mounts yes. still plenty of pvp with ground mounts only first half of each expansion. then again, blizzard themselves even admitted flying mounts was one of the worst things they ever did to the game.

rentals would be nice.

all i know is that i won't be buying an expansion solely to have mounts in wvw. it feels like a slimy f2p monetization decision and i never give those types of games a penny as soon as i encounter that type of design. glad i ran into this issue before i bought us the expansion.

anyways, i've looked around and haven't noticed anything about rentals in wvw. hope its in, i'm disappointed so far.

If your main focus is wvw I would strongly suggest not getting the expansion or reinstalling the game. As you said, it's pretty slimy and the result is a bunch of uncommitted combat in a shrinking audience anyway. You and your girlfriend will only suffer if not be bored to death with P2W gimmicks.

[Mizhas.8536]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Mizhas.8536 said:For those who speak about that there is no problem, just get your mount and shut up...

1. There are new players that just came as F2P and they don't have access to the mount. It sucks.

Any player who comes into a new MMO often faces disadvantages. Most other MMOs don't hand out the base game for free AND allow you to access all endgame content without any investment financially on top of that.

Playing on a f2p account is no guarantee that you never need to spend money on this game and it shouldn't. If you are unwilling or unable to purchase HoT and/or PoF (which are on sale almost regularly by now), you are not very high on the priority list of target customers. All you provide is another body for the game mode who will consume resources and not return any profit.

As far as the 6-8 hours to get the mount, if you are unwilling to invest those, you wouldn't hang around in WvW anyway. So no loss there.

@Mizhas.8536 said:

2. There are old players that come back to gove the game another opportunity and they face this as well. It sucks.
3. Any new player (with PoF) that tries to give a chance to WvW faces the need to grind the mount just for start playing the game mode normally. It sucks.

Same principle: if you can't spend 6-8 hours to get the mount, you were never interested in the game mode. I'm personally not against offering a temporary Warclaw for people who have access to PoF, though I'm quite sure that would make a lot of f2p players rage even more.

@Mizhas.8536 said:Let's not talk then about the silliness of allowing mounted players to go through all CCs completely by the face and without a scratch.

It has changed the game mode, yes. There si some things I like and some I dislike. For example: I personally like the fact that I can close to the blob on my support build without being free food for gankers, sorry roamers.

@Mizhas.8536 said:The only good thing about mounts is that it has increased the rate of combats that you may be able to get since everyone moves faster from one place to another. However, all the previous things really need to be fixed if Anet wants some kind of future for WvW.

More fights, more glory, unless you are part of the karma train PvE zerg. I'm not so faster ways to get back into the fight are good additions to me.

LOL, your argument in epic. So since all games make it wrong GW2 can not make it different. Is that what you are saying?

The progression in WvW is about learning WvW mechanics. Mount is not a mechanic, is a gizmo, a feature for conveniency at most. Making mount the first step of the WvW experience is a BIG mistake.

F2P, as well as returning players, SHOULD NOT ever have to feel pointless when chasing mounted groups and getting late to every single little piece of action over the map.Progression in this case, doesn't exist since they don't have access to the mount at all. The limited features argument it's stupid since they are already limited by builds, gear and other more important things rather than to care about a mount.

About advantages and disadvantages, I know that for many people, the possibility of completely avoiding combats is great but sry, I can not agree with that. Ganking is just an strategy to fight those blobs. Avoiding that blob to respawn and regroup to the infinite SHOULD be encouraged. Support/glass cannon builds that may be good for zerging MUST HAVE disadvantages like being easy target for roamer builds. Its part of the ABC of this gamemode.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Mizhas.8536 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Mizhas.8536 said:For those who speak about that there is no problem, just get your mount and shut up...

1. There are new players that just came as F2P and they don't have access to the mount. It sucks.

Any player who comes into a new MMO often faces disadvantages. Most other MMOs don't hand out the base game for free AND allow you to access all endgame content without any investment financially on top of that.

Playing on a f2p account is no guarantee that you never need to spend money on this game and it shouldn't. If you are unwilling or unable to purchase HoT and/or PoF (which are on sale almost regularly by now), you are not very high on the priority list of target customers. All you provide is another body for the game mode who will consume resources and not return any profit.

As far as the 6-8 hours to get the mount, if you are unwilling to invest those, you wouldn't hang around in WvW anyway. So no loss there.

@Mizhas.8536 said:

2. There are old players that come back to gove the game another opportunity and they face this as well. It sucks.
3. Any new player (with PoF) that tries to give a chance to WvW faces the need to grind the mount just for start playing the game mode normally. It sucks.

Same principle: if you can't spend 6-8 hours to get the mount, you were never interested in the game mode. I'm personally not against offering a temporary Warclaw for people who have access to PoF, though I'm quite sure that would make a lot of f2p players rage even more.

@Mizhas.8536 said:Let's not talk then about the silliness of allowing mounted players to go through all CCs completely by the face and without a scratch.

It has changed the game mode, yes. There si some things I like and some I dislike. For example: I personally like the fact that I can close to the blob on my support build without being free food for gankers, sorry roamers.

@Mizhas.8536 said:The only good thing about mounts is that it has increased the rate of combats that you may be able to get since everyone moves faster from one place to another. However, all the previous things really need to be fixed if Anet wants some kind of future for WvW.

More fights, more glory, unless you are part of the karma train PvE zerg. I'm not so faster ways to get back into the fight are good additions to me.

LOL, your argument in epic. So since all games make it wrong GW2 can not make it different. Is that what you are saying?

What I'm saying is: GW2 is already over generous as to what content it gives free access to. Personally I could care less about f2p players who spend 0 money on the game having demands, but that is just me.

@Mizhas.8536 said:The progression in WvW is about learning WvW mechanics. Mount is not a mechanic, is a gizmo, a feature for conveniency at most. Making mount the first step of the WvW experience is a BIG mistake.

That's is your opinion. Please treat it as such: an opinion. I could argue just as much that learning to stick with the blob is a basic learn to play issue since there is classes and builds which can keep up just fine even without a mount. That would be my opinion ofcorse.

@Mizhas.8536 said:F2P, as well as returning players, SHOULD NOT ever have to feel pointless when chasing mounted groups and getting late to every single little piece of action over the map.

Well my opinion on this is simple: I disagree.

Arenanet is a business and I support them encouraging players to have to spend money on the game. Ideally without locking people out of content (as is custom in the market). The mount is just that: an encouragement while still allowing players to access content. If it was up to me, I would disallow f2p accounts from accessing spvp and wvw all together.

Nice side effect, it might force the developers to focus on the game modes instead of fluffing up the players there with f2p accounts.

@Mizhas.8536 said:Progression in this case, doesn't exist since they don't have access to the mount at all. The limited features argument it's stupid since they are already limited by builds, gear and other more important things rather than to care about a mount.

Yes, and the mount puts more limitations on this. Works for me. If people are not motivated to purchase the very basics in expansions, I don't want them ruining my sides WvW experience by running inferior builds. Other MMORPGS require hundreds of $ of investments (say WoW for example which requires you to purchase ALL previous expansions, the current one AND a monthly subscription), GW2 is way to cost efficient in that regard.

[Blackarps.1974]

Not having a mount is killing any chance this mode has to gather new players. Its the same as any of the other rewards that force you to have a "high" rank. Give people a rent a mount that gives them a buff on their bar. 24 hours or a few gold. Give them the speed boost mastery/ability when in friendly territories as well...or just let them train the mastery while they work on the mount.

[Dagre.2185]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

Yes, and the mount puts more limitations on this. Works for me. If people are not motivated to purchase the very basics in expansions, I don't want them ruining my sides WvW experience by running inferior builds. Other MMORPGS require hundreds of $ of investments (say WoW for example which requires you to purchase ALL previous expansions, the current one AND a monthly subscription), GW2 is way to cost efficient in that regard.

actually, buying just the base game unlocks all expansions except the current one. anyone with a subscription has access to everything but the current expansion. that and you can pay monthly sub with gold now. takes about 2-3 solid days to farm up a token which is the equivalent to sub cost. can even turn it in for battlenet balance and buy their other games with it, or the expansions themselves. haven't spent a nickle on wow for the last 3 expansions and i have all the games in battlenet also now.

another thing blizzard would never do is unbalance pvp in such a way that you'd have only some people have access to a mount in instanced pvp content. blows my mind that any developer would consider that ethical at all. if they're that desperate for cash they might as well just go entirely f2p and sell spammable health potions for cash only. or go the archeage way and make it so you have to spend $2000+ to be competitive.

the expansion is cheap, i have no issues buying it money wise. i refuse to give my money to a developer that pulls stunts like these though.

and this is coming from someone that doesn't have an issue with elite specs even though a solid argument can be made that elite specs are just as bad.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Dagre.2185 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

Yes, and the mount puts more limitations on this. Works for me. If people are not motivated to purchase the very basics in expansions, I don't want them ruining my sides WvW experience by running inferior builds. Other MMORPGS require hundreds of $ of investments (say WoW for example which requires you to purchase ALL previous expansions, the current one AND a monthly subscription), GW2 is way to cost efficient in that regard.

actually, buying just the base game unlocks all expansions except the current one. anyone with a subscription has access to everything but the current expansion. that and you can pay monthly sub with gold now. takes about 2-3 solid days to farm up a token which is the equivalent to sub cost. can even turn it in for battlenet balance and buy their other games with it, or the expansions themselves. haven't spent a nickle on wow for the last 3 expansions and i have all the games in battlenet also now.

Yes, they literally changed that last year until which the price was a lot higher (https://uk.pcmag.com/news-analysis/116436/you-dont-need-to-buy-world-of-warcraft-anymore). That still leaves people out 60-70 bucks for the current expansion (nearly double of PoF's launch price and 3-4 times the cost at which PoF goes currently) with a subscription fee on top.

GW2 is dirt cheap compared to WoW.

@Dagre.2185 said:another thing blizzard would never do is unbalance pvp in such a way that you'd have only some people have access to a mount in instanced pvp content. blows my mind that any developer would consider that ethical at all. if they're that desperate for cash they might as well just go entirely f2p and sell spammable health potions for cash only. or go the archeage way and make it so you have to spend $2000+ to be competitive.

I present to you racial skills. Available in instanced pvp content. Never balanced and usually favoring 1 race heavily. Has the human racial been reworked yet or are the top 100 2v2 ranks still human only? Now obviously this was available for everyone. All it took was a faction and race change, which Blizzard offers at a premium cost.

Get back to me about balance for WoWs competative mode once they actually get it balanced. Haven't managed to do this so far and I played a lot of competative WoW in the past.

You are right though, Blizzard never locked players who were paying their monthly subscription and were up to date on their expansions out of content. Then again they had enough other mechanics in place to encourage players to spend extra cash. Not sure WoW is the best example here.

[Dagre.2185]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Dagre.2185 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

Yes, and the mount puts more limitations on this. Works for me. If people are not motivated to purchase the very basics in expansions, I don't want them ruining my sides WvW experience by running inferior builds. Other MMORPGS require hundreds of $ of investments (say WoW for example which requires you to purchase ALL previous expansions, the current one AND a monthly subscription), GW2 is way to cost efficient in that regard.

actually, buying just the base game unlocks all expansions except the current one. anyone with a subscription has access to everything but the current expansion. that and you can pay monthly sub with gold now. takes about 2-3 solid days to farm up a token which is the equivalent to sub cost. can even turn it in for battlenet balance and buy their other games with it, or the expansions themselves. haven't spent a nickle on wow for the last 3 expansions and i have all the games in battlenet also now.

Yes, they literally changed that last year until which the price was a lot higher (

https://uk.pcmag.com/news-analysis/116436/you-dont-need-to-buy-world-of-warcraft-anymore

). That still leaves people out 60-70 bucks for the current expansion (nearly double of PoF's launch price and 3-4 times the cost at which PoF goes currently) with a subscription fee on top.

GW2 is dirt cheap compared to WoW.

@Dagre.2185 said:another thing blizzard would never do is unbalance pvp in such a way that you'd have only some people have access to a mount in instanced pvp content. blows my mind that any developer would consider that ethical at all. if they're that desperate for cash they might as well just go entirely f2p and sell spammable health potions for cash only. or go the archeage way and make it so you have to spend $2000+ to be competitive.

I present to you racial skills. Available in instanced pvp content. Never balanced and usually favoring 1 race heavily. Has the human racial been reworked yet or are the top 100 2v2 ranks still human only? Now obviously this was available for everyone. All it took was a faction and race change, which Blizzard offers at a premium cost.

Get back to me about balance for WoWs competative mode once they actually get it balanced. Haven't managed to do this so far and I played a lot of competative WoW in the past.

they changed that like 6 years ago. i think even more, it was during pandaria. i never had to buy pandaria when i skipped it and got draenor when that came out. so maybe even 8 years ago.

and horde is the preferred race for racials. everyone has access to racials, they can make any character they want and then they can also just buy tokens with gold to have a race change or faction transfer if they don't want to level another toon up. its not restricted behind any pay wall even if people can pay if they don't want to level. mind you, with the new allied races, most people have leveled toons on both factions by now.

oh and they've tweaked racials a few times. you can also make horde/alliance characters on same server and the limit of characters is somewhere around 50. nothing in there forces anyone to spend money to be on par with other players. interestingly enough, the top players dont' even play the cookie cutter race. speaks volumes about the negligible difference that makes.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Dagre.2185 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Dagre.2185 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

Yes, and the mount puts more limitations on this. Works for me. If people are not motivated to purchase the very basics in expansions, I don't want them ruining my sides WvW experience by running inferior builds. Other MMORPGS require hundreds of $ of investments (say WoW for example which requires you to purchase ALL previous expansions, the current one AND a monthly subscription), GW2 is way to cost efficient in that regard.

actually, buying just the base game unlocks all expansions except the current one. anyone with a subscription has access to everything but the current expansion. that and you can pay monthly sub with gold now. takes about 2-3 solid days to farm up a token which is the equivalent to sub cost. can even turn it in for battlenet balance and buy their other games with it, or the expansions themselves. haven't spent a nickle on wow for the last 3 expansions and i have all the games in battlenet also now.

Yes, they literally changed that last year until which the price was a lot higher (

https://uk.pcmag.com/news-analysis/116436/you-dont-need-to-buy-world-of-warcraft-anymore

). That still leaves people out 60-70 bucks for the current expansion (nearly double of PoF's launch price and 3-4 times the cost at which PoF goes currently) with a subscription fee on top.

GW2 is dirt cheap compared to WoW.

@Dagre.2185 said:another thing blizzard would never do is unbalance pvp in such a way that you'd have only some people have access to a mount in instanced pvp content. blows my mind that any developer would consider that ethical at all. if they're that desperate for cash they might as well just go entirely f2p and sell spammable health potions for cash only. or go the archeage way and make it so you have to spend $2000+ to be competitive.

I present to you racial skills. Available in instanced pvp content. Never balanced and usually favoring 1 race heavily. Has the human racial been reworked yet or are the top 100 2v2 ranks still human only? Now obviously this was available for everyone. All it took was a faction and race change, which Blizzard offers at a premium cost.

Get back to me about balance for WoWs competative mode once they actually get it balanced. Haven't managed to do this so far and I played a lot of competative WoW in the past.

they changed that like 6 years ago. i think even more, it was during pandaria. i never had to buy pandaria when i skipped it and got draenor when that came out. so maybe even 8 years ago.

Very doubtful. I was active for both Draenor and Legion and I had to purchase all past expansions until it allowed me to get the current one for my account. That article I linked is from 2018. I doubt it would have made big news last year if they had implemented this 6 years ago.

@Dagre.2185 said:and horde is the preferred race for racials. everyone has access to racials, they can make any character they want and then they can also just buy tokens with gold to have a race change or faction transfer if they don't want to level another toon up. its not restricted behind any pay wall even if people can pay if they don't want to level. mind you, with the new allied races, most people have leveled toons on both factions by now.

oh and they've tweaked racials a few times. you can also make horde/alliance characters on same server and the limit of characters is somewhere around 50. nothing in there forces anyone to spend money to be on par with other players.

During Legion it was alliance only in the top 100. So racial flipped back, fine. Are you going to reroll or rather pay for a faction and race change? Take a guess what most people do.

This entire comparison is hilarious. 1-2 Months of WoW's subscription pay for PoF. The mere fact that people mention WoW when complaining about cost for an expansion purchase is an insult.