Saharo.5381 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Were either of these ever OP in the past few years? Don't think they ever gave people many issues except at lower tiers. Why nerf?Slowest pvp class, lowest health pool... and now mediocre DPS. Are any builds even viable at higher levels anymore or do we have to suck it up and play FB?If Anet wanted to force people to play different builds, shouldn't they have reasonably buffed other traits/lines to encourage those, not tanked what was currently working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Weak?Compare it to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 It was never meta, it was passable however.Daze on traps needed to go, that was complete bull. The rest should be rolled back though."Guard is supposed to guard, not damage." -gw community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:It was never meta, it was passable however.Daze on traps needed to go, that was complete bull. The rest should be rolled back though."Guard is supposed to guard, not damage." -gw communityDoesn't it suck when the "community" decides your role versus the one originally described by the developers who created the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephoid.4263 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 While i can agree with the 50%-25% crit change for rental, give guard SOMETHING back. Guard's shouts are straight garbage. they don't give many boons and the duration are god awful. Most haven't seen a change since release and they weren't even competitive back then.Spirit weapons are still bad. Mid cast time and delay for effect isn't a viable combination.Medis were go-to for a long time, but they have been nerfed a few times and have been power crept pretty hard.Consecrations are a joke. Not even remotely competitive in pvp, only wall is ever used in any game mode. You had very limited build options for any form of power guard and they received 3 separate nerfs (smite conditions, glacial heart, RI) without any meaningful buffs. Hammer guard saw repeated nerfs back to back on a build that wasn't competitive in any format. The cast time on every effect hammer has are incredibly long and do very middling damage/effects.GS guard was low-mid plat competitive when mirages were popular, but the RI crit nerf without any compensating buffs killed that. Previously gs guard lost to holos, sb, or revs, now they get dominated by them.DH hasn't been competitive since the initial round of heavy handed nerfs after HoT release. I'd love to see something done for power guards, but i really don't have confidence that Anet has a good grasp on what is wrong. I'm betting on some concentration cd buffs or something meaningless like that. Guard's problems have been apparent since release and haven't been solved, so why now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derm.4932 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 dont worry u can always play side noder firebrand and spam symbols for incredibly fun and interactive gameplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams.3128 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Was 1v1ing my friends on core/DH and yes, guardian DPS is straight toilet water now. They barely dent any class that can keep protection up often and they do nothing to scrapper. Their condi hardly has any cover so even a druid can nullify any output there. Their rune solely focuses on having them be able to keep up with a class passively, but not with swiftness so their mobility still sucks.It's literally ele but less drastic. They have support FB and they are really good at that. Any dps variants are horribly sub-par since they can't 1v1 the main classes reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 a lot of it has to do with teleporting instant damage. anet cracked down on it a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyKoti.1928 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 @Crab Fear.1624 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:It was never meta, it was passable however.Daze on traps needed to go, that was complete bull. The rest should be rolled back though."Guard is supposed to guard, not damage." -gw communityDoesn't it suck when the "community" decides your role versus the one originally described by the developers who created the game?From the game itself; Guardians are specialiased in defensive magic. They should be able to defend at least. Right now, they sucks at dammage and defense. (unless you're a firebrand it seems)Core Guardian should be a bruiser.Dragonhunter should be high dammage with a bit if support but only in their virtues.Firebrand plays its role as intended which is full support/Dammage over time.This might sound or even be subjective, but these are my views for the Guardian.Yes, specialise in defensive magic, yet they smite their foes and empower their allies (hence why I put core guard bruiser style)Dragonhunter are inspired by wich hunters, they are zealous in their mission on exterminating dragons. They should do more dammage than that while keeping their support from their virtues (really like the DH virtues as they are right now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alatar.7364 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 @Crab Fear.1624 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:It was never meta, it was passable however.Daze on traps needed to go, that was complete bull. The rest should be rolled back though."Guard is supposed to guard, not damage." -gw communityDoesn't it suck when the "community" decides your role versus the one originally described by the developers who created the game?I see what you did there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhule.7230 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 guardian has never been weak i remember playing guardian when thief was pure crit strike beasts and could still beat them and the heartseeker spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saharo.5381 Posted June 18, 2019 Author Share Posted June 18, 2019 @Stand The Wall.6987 said:a lot of it has to do with teleporting instant damage. anet cracked down on it a while back.When was this? Like the 2015 Judge's Intervention midair change or more recently? I always thought the Leap of Faith/Mighty Blow + Judge's Intervention combo was slow and telegraphed enough to I guess balance whatever advantage a teleport burst attack offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 @Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:a lot of it has to do with teleporting instant damage. anet cracked down on it a while back.When was this? Like the 2015 Judge's Intervention midair change or more recently? I always thought the Leap of Faith/Mighty Blow + Judge's Intervention combo was slow and telegraphed enough to I guess balance whatever advantage a teleport burst attack offered. I don't think they messed with that combo functionally speaking but i'm pretty sure they nerfed the damage. that plus righteous instincts nerf.edithmm no just checked i'm trippin. i'm thinking of the nerf to traits that do instant damage for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 @Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:a lot of it has to do with teleporting instant damage. anet cracked down on it a while back.When was this? Like the 2015 Judge's Intervention midair change or more recently? I always thought the Leap of Faith/Mighty Blow + Judge's Intervention combo was slow and telegraphed enough to I guess balance whatever advantage a teleport burst attack offered. most start this shit behind a wall..down the stairs....hiding in the crowd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 @Crab Fear.1624 said:@Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:a lot of it has to do with teleporting instant damage. anet cracked down on it a while back.When was this? Like the 2015 Judge's Intervention midair change or more recently? I always thought the Leap of Faith/Mighty Blow + Judge's Intervention combo was slow and telegraphed enough to I guess balance whatever advantage a teleport burst attack offered. most start this kitten behind a wall..down the stairs....hiding in the crowdyeah that's what was wrong with it. so they nerfed righteous instincts and made that trait unusable with Valkyrie amulet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrauls.6519 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Power DH needs buffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Buff guard damage. BIG DAMAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Then, take away all teleports. ALLL of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saharo.5381 Posted June 18, 2019 Author Share Posted June 18, 2019 @Stand The Wall.6987 said:@Crab Fear.1624 said:@Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:a lot of it has to do with teleporting instant damage. anet cracked down on it a while back.When was this? Like the 2015 Judge's Intervention midair change or more recently? I always thought the Leap of Faith/Mighty Blow + Judge's Intervention combo was slow and telegraphed enough to I guess balance whatever advantage a teleport burst attack offered. most start this kitten behind a wall..down the stairs....hiding in the crowdyeah that's what was wrong with it. so they nerfed righteous instincts and made that trait unusable with Valkyrie amulet.Yeah that's the only way to get it to land, creep around like an extremely slow, extremely visible thief.Annoying to deal with, but I don't think it was broken. Was that why they nerfed guard DPS in general? Because reworking LoF/MB + JI was too troublesome?Cause teleports are the only way guards can move around at a passable speed. Hammer and GS moves are so slow too. Different issue: I've always wondered why the hell is guard 11k health despite being heavy armor and thematically into protective/defensive magic? I'm guessing aegis/blocks went a lot further pre-HOT/powercreep? Even a defensive oriented build now is squishy at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I think core guard and DH's best hope is for enough nerfs to over performing specs to lower builds down to their level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 @"mrauls.6519" said:Power DH needs buffsNerf DH!111Never let it be viable! Say no to traps ! Say no to unskilled gameplay and busted recharge on background for traps!1111111 :kissing_wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobrakon.3108 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 HAHA HA HA HH A HA H H H HAH AH AH A (thief and thief's plight) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephoid.4263 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 @Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:Different issue: I've always wondered why the hell is guard 11k health despite being heavy armor and thematically into protective/defensive magic? I'm guessing aegis/blocks went a lot further pre-HOT/powercreep? Even a defensive oriented build now is squishy at best. Nah, aegis was always built into useless skills (why the hell does Retreat! have aegis and not vigor) and overvalued by devs due to its impact in PVE on bosses that hit slow. Guard was always super squishy for no reason that i could determine. RI made up for it with the ability to slot in some valk to bump up hp, but now thats gone too. Thats why medis were so necessary for so long, since you needed the 2k heal/ability to offset your tiny hp pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUnknown.5204 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I love playing my guardianBut I agree, He need's some love please anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth.7623 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Because it's the original passive insta-cast aoe spam class. Should not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 @mortrialus.3062 said:I think core guard and DH's best hope is for enough nerfs to over performing specs to lower builds down to their level.Pre RI nerf I think core guardian was decent. Now? With its current power level, meta classes will need to get somewhere in the range of 20% effectiveness nerf for core guardian or DH to be competitive. It is extremely unlikely this will happen.Rev can cast PT every 5 secs, no one cares. Guardian casts JI (which is pretty similar skill) every 36 secs and everyone loses their mind. My only conclusion is that Anet does not want guardian to have viable dps builds, or they are extremely incompetent. Considering the last 3-4 balance patches, I am not sure which is it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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