Black Lion Statuette up for purchase outside of Black Lion Chests

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@"OutOfOrder.3719" said:I keep stating that the cost for a black lion statuette should be at least the same cost as 1 BL key

AT least the same, Equal, if not more !

Is this not your quote? "But if ANET were to offer black lion statuettes to be bought by everyone, I would want them to be more expensive than a regular black lion key."

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@"OutOfOrder.3719" said:I keep stating that the cost for a black lion statuette should be at least the same cost as 1 BL key

AT least the same, Equal, if not more !

5,000 gems for 60Black lion statuettes would be a fair price for the Elementalist Sword or other black lion Exclusive items.

Motivate it. Because it is completely counter to any logical reasoning I can see.

1 Black Lion Chest Key: 125 gems giving 1 Statuette, 1 seasonal guaranteed item, 2 random other items and a chance at a 3rd random, rarer item.Since the statuette is absolutely, 100% guaranteed when you purchase a BL key, it seems patently absurd to argue that a "free standing" statuette, giving literally a fraction of what the key does should cost more.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I guess that poster believes that Belgium players should pay more than the rest of the playerbase.Or, that anyone that prefers to forego the extra items in a Black Lion Chest should pay more.It's kind of mind-boggling.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

No. Belgium players should definitely be able to buy black lion statuettes or other country’s that have or will ban questionable gambling entertainment or consumer purchases.

But the 90% of other consumers that can already black lion keys should pay the same price for 1 black lion statuette as one black lion key.

Either take the gamble and buy keys , or pay a small premium from buying exactly what you want without any risk. You could still buy 60 black lion keys and not get the current monthly item that you want. That is the risk that some players are willing to take.

I think a 60 black lion statuette purchase of 5000 gems in exchange for a black lion exclusive item is completely fair.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Wow. This isn't about what's in the Black Lion Chests, but what eventually is offered from the Black Lion Statuette Vendor.No one is suggesting that one would be able to purchase anything the Black Lion Chest currently offers with Black Lion Statuettes.It's only after those items move to the Black Lion Statuette Vendor.

[Aaralyna.3104]

I support OP's idea. This way any country with a "future" ban on lootboxes can continue using their black lion statuettes and get the items they wanted with it (and without the need to keyfarm each week). Price should be the same as a black lion key or even a little lower as you get less items than a bl chest does (to keep it fair for everyone). They should make it available for everyone at the lower price if they put a lower price tho (so ppl have a choice then as black lion chests usually give massive bad loot, like booster and res orb x200). Like you choose to gamble and get extra shinies or you go safe and get the little cheaper single statuette (but risk missing extra nice shinies).

However, I can already see why Anet will never implement this. They say you can get keys from drops (very rare) or map completion (chance) or story (guaranteed) and simply don't want to put resources into a single country.

I would say get rid of all rng boxes and put a fixed price for all gem store items but that will never happen, and if it does price will tripple I fear.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

The black lion statuette vendor rotates 3 black lion chest exclusive items roughly once a month that cost 60 statuettes.

So this discussion is that most consumers want to buy black lion statuettes for primarily those items. Otherwise players would not be asking to buy black lion statuettes in the first place.

This is a great idea to allow countries and consumers have access to purchase black lion statuettes that currently cannot buy black lion keys.

However, I am against the same discount offered to the rest of the community that can already buy keys for less than the cost of one black lion key. It devalues any additional prestige of having those items as I have already put the time and money into black lion keys to obtain them. I cannot be the only consumer that would feel this way, if black lion statuettes were sold for even less.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

This discussion is about affording Belgium players a way to purchase an item found in Black Lion Chests (Black Lion Statuettes).Exclusive Black Lion Chest items usually don't show up at the Black Lion Statuette vendor for several months. If ever.

[Khisanth.2948]

I have nothing against the idea but on the other hand the statuettes doesn't need to be involved at all. Just put the items in the store to be bought directly.

If it happens it is also much more likely that the statuettes will cost more than keys.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Sirius Lemuria Draconis.7864" said:As a player from Belgium it's been a while now since I was last able to buy keys for the black lion chests thanks to some national laws here preventing the selling of RNG lootboxes for actual money. Personally I think it's good to get rid of all these "surprise mechanics" eventhough I never really bothered them existing if it was for something as small as the black lion chests or dye kits etc.With Belgium in the lead I'm sure that eventually a lot of countries and probably the whole of the EU will follow in these laws that forbid these kind of practises so I think it might be nice to start thinking about a proper solution so people in my situation can still get some of the nice rewards that are found within these chest.

One solution I had in mind would be putting the Black Lion Statuette up for sale in the Gemstore, be it at the price of a black lion key or a little less. It wouldn't hurt any of the other players outside of my situation since every black lion chest comes with a statuette anyway. But this gives players like me the chance to also get lovely items like the Fire-Breathing Package or any of the other nice items sold in the Black Lion Statuette menu.

I'm sure in there would be better idea's in the longterm, but right now while only a smaller percentage of the playerbase is affected, it would seems like a nice and fair solutions.

What are your thoughts?

Great idea until the price is set for these statuettes at say 1USD each.And the community then does the math and screams foul when the cost of the Fire-Breathing package is 30 bucks."ohmahgerd... call Jim Sterling!!!"

[Sirius Lemuria Draconis.78]

I'm very glad this discussion got pulled open like this, it's very interesting to read both pro and con argumentation and these matters.

I can see that one of the most delicate matter would be the price of such an idea if it was ever implemented.Can't be too high or it would cost a ridiculous amount of real money for simple items. But can't be too low for anyone to feel disadventaged.I do hope some of the devs will see this post and start some discussion internally.

As for me, they definitly don't have to come up with a solution only for Belgium, I understand that it's a very low percentage of the playerbase.But if laws like this become a trend it couldn't hurt for Anet to think about the future.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:Well. If they offered those few countries that don’t have access to black lion chests/keys an option to buy black lion statuettes, I would have no problem with this.

But if ANET were to offer black lion statuettes to be bought by everyone, I would want them to be more expensive than a regular black lion key.

RNG comes with a discount, whereas paying for a specific skin should be more expensive.

Although I understand you want to receive the best value possible and avoid RNG altogether, it will upset previous buyers that paid a premium for those items.

They already are more expensive when using statuettes to purchase a specific item or skin so RNG works in the favour of a key buyer not a statuette buyerIf you buy 5 keys and get lucky with that nice new item .. you win.If you don't get that big shiny new item yoh still get a minimum of 5 statuettes plus some other stuff.Statuette vendor sells that shiny new item for... 10 statuettes so you either buy 5 more keys (maybe less if you got bonus starts from the original key purchase) which gets you 5 more chances at luck plus other bits and bobs.Or you can straight up buy 10 statuettes for same price as 10 keys (same break down)... must buy 10 cos you don't get any chances for bonus statty and you don't get nothing else including any chance for that item to drop for you anyway.Either way you are paying at best, the same as anyone who bought keys and had no luck... both could then have utilise the statty vendor and use the same amount of statty for the item.So again... where is the issue and why shod there be a need to price hike an item unneccessarily???

[TheGrimm.5624]

Not saying I agree or disagree but coming at it from an outside view. I think I get OutOfOrders point. If you say that the the total value of the key is just the statue than you equate the extra stuff in the chest to zero. Where as everyone else is saying the extra stuff is extra. But in some cases that still means zero. And as a key gambler there is quite a bit that is worthless. Hence OOO's point with sticking with the current pattern that to buy something directly it should be more expensive. I like the example of the value meal above, except when you break it down, to buy a value meal in components, it would actually cost you more if you bought them separately, which to me more matches OutOfOrder's point. So again not siding in on a price side, already said, allow people to sell them on TP and that will solve it since the price will settle on the actual value over time.

[Etria.3642]

The point with the value meal though is that you're GUARANTEED to get the sandwich. No matter what, no matter the time of year, you are getting a sandwich. 5 bucks, you get a sandwich., a fry and a drink and maybe a pie. So if you put all the value on the sandwich, why on earth would a sandwich cost more than a sandwich fry and drink? And if the value is, as honestly, it actually, more like, the statuette is a buck, the fries are a buck, the drink is a buck and most of us really really really really want that pie(the fifth box) why still make the sandwich six?

Because let's face it. Most of us don't buy the keys to get the statuettes. We buy them hoping to get the rare stuff. The statuettes are the consolation prize, and sure, after spending enough we can get the thing we didn't get. So. Another way.

Buyer from California: gets 60 keys four months ago. He really really really REALLY wants the dragon glider, but he did not get it. What he did get: 65 statuettes, 60 skimmer pups, 3 weapon skins, 2 wardrobe unlocks, 9 revive orbs, 11 dye kits, 13 various materials, 1 home instance node, 2 dungeon token boxes, 2 key boxes, 6 teleport to friends, 7 random junk items worth approx a gold apiece, and 9 makeover kits and 1 total makeover kit.

Since now the Dragon Glider IS available, he can purchase it.

Buyer from Belgium really really really REALLY wants the dragon glider. He must, regardless, wait the 4 months until it's in the statuette vendor. He buy 60 statuettes and gets the glider. Only. The glider.

How does it make ANY sense that the second person, regardless of where they are from, would be required to pay MORE than the first buyer? (Although why anyone not in Belgium ever would, no clue, since they can just buy 60 keys and get the glider plus the extra stuff available now. Who knows, maybe they get the fireworks glider AND buy the dragon glider.)

Actually, after typing it all out, statuettes really should be at a discount.

[Rauderi.8706]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Make them tradeable and allow people to buy/sell them on the TP. In fact everything in the chest should be tradeable to be honest. Get something you don't like, doesn't mean someone else might not want it and now the item has a value.

Ohgod this. I have hair kits coming out of my furry ears, and they don't stop coming. Customer Service was very kind enough to refund me some keys with the first batch of four I complained about, but now I have several more and nothing to do with them, because I already have the permanent kit. I would gladly put them on the market for folks to buy if I could.

[Linken.6345]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:Well. If they offered those few countries that don’t have access to black lion chests/keys an option to buy black lion statuettes, I would have no problem with this.

But if ANET were to offer black lion statuettes to be bought by everyone, I would want them to be more expensive than a regular black lion key.

RNG comes with a discount, whereas paying for a specific skin should be more expensive.

Although I understand you want to receive the best value possible and avoid RNG altogether, it will upset previous buyers that paid a premium for those items.

They already are more expensive when using statuettes to purchase a specific item or skin so RNG works in the favour of a key buyer not a statuette buyerIf you buy 5 keys and get lucky with that nice new item .. you win.If you don't get that big shiny new item yoh still get a minimum of 5 statuettes plus some other stuff.Statuette vendor sells that shiny new item for... 10 statuettes so you either buy 5 more keys (maybe less if you got bonus starts from the original key purchase) which gets you 5 more chances at luck plus other bits and bobs.Or you can straight up buy 10 statuettes for same price as 10 keys (same break down)... must buy 10 cos you don't get any chances for bonus statty and you don't get nothing else including any chance for that item to drop for you anyway.Either way you are paying at best, the same as anyone who bought keys and had no luck... both could then have utilise the statty vendor and use the same amount of statty for the item.So again... where is the issue and why shod there be a need to price hike an item unneccessarily???

What the poster seem to object to and noone stated this should even be possible is.That said buy statuetts only guy should be able to buy the current special items in the black lion chest to circumvent the rng aspect.Since they can only buy the same thing anyone else can buy for statuettes at the time the 1 black lion statuettes should cost no higher then 125 each possibly as low as 75-120 since they get 1 out of 3-4 items in said chest.

[casualkenny.9817]

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:Not saying I agree or disagree but coming at it from an outside view. I think I get OutOfOrders point. If you say that the the total value of the key is just the statue than you equate the extra stuff in the chest to zero. Where as everyone else is saying the extra stuff is extra. But in some cases that still means zero. And as a key gambler there is quite a bit that is worthless. Hence OOO's point with sticking with the current pattern that to buy something directly it should be more expensive. I like the example of the value meal above, except when you break it down, to buy a value meal in components, it would actually cost you more if you bought them separately, which to me more matches OutOfOrder's point. So again not siding in on a price side, already said, allow people to sell them on TP and that will solve it since the price will settle on the actual value over time.

You misunderstand why ppl were reacting to ooo's original opinion. If he had said that statuettes should be priced the same as a key, many ppl would not have responded to him. Its the part of his original (and subsequent) statement where he said that each statuette could/should be more expensive than a key that got reactions.

To reiterate the meal analogy, what he was suggesting/demanding was that, if the meal costs $5, the burger alone should be priced at $5 (makes sense up to this point) or more than $5 (??? Here). In fact, he did later say at one point that the burger alone should cost more than if you bought the complete meal.

"But if ANET were to offer black lion statuettes to be bought by everyone, I would want them to be more expensive than a regular black lion key."

[OutOfOrder.3719]

Ok. I’m going to have to retract my original statement that black lion statuettes should cost more than the price of a regular key.

The reason is that there is the value of actually obtaining “that item of the month exclusive” that hasn’t even been released at the black lion statuette vendor (and may not for another 4 monthes or more). (Or other rare/ uncommon weapon skins)

But the value/cost should be at least 100 gems per black lion statuette or a discount if you buy in bulk.

And just like how black lion keys go on sale sometimes, so would black lion statuettes as well. The value should never go below 70 gems though.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:Ok. I’m going to have to retract my original statement that black lion statuettes should cost more than the price of a regular key.

The reason is that there is the value of actually obtaining “that item of the month exclusive” that hasn’t even been released at the black lion statuette vendor (and may not for another 4 monthes or more). (Or other rare/ uncommon weapon skins)

But the value/cost should be at least 100 gems per black lion statuette or a discount if you buy in bulk.

And just like how black lion keys go on sale sometimes, so would black lion statuettes as well. The value should never go below 70 gems though.

Imo if statuette sales ever become a thing they should run hand in hand with key prices / sales and follow the same discount pattern. It would simply make it less argumentative and maybe easy to automate.

[Etria.3642]

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:Ok. I’m going to have to retract my original statement that black lion statuettes should cost more than the price of a regular key.

The reason is that there is the value of actually obtaining “that item of the month exclusive” that hasn’t even been released at the black lion statuette vendor (and may not for another 4 monthes or more). (Or other rare/ uncommon weapon skins)

I don't think anyone has suggested that statuettes buyer would have access to anything that isn't in the statuette vendor already. IE if you bought statuettes today you could buy the Dragon glider...but not the fireworks one.