Back item colour customisation?

[Xervite.5493]

Pretty much what the title say, we already have the option to colour some gliders why not back items? What do you guys think? Why isn't this a thing already?And while we are at it can we get an option to randomise colours on existing set? A system similar to the game warframe where you can simply click the button a few times until you find a good colour scheme instead of sitting there minutes trying different shades.

P.S: When capes?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

From @"tidgepot.3285", regarding someone asking why the Shining Blade Glider can be dyed, but not the backpack, even though each were created relatively recently.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dye-backpacks-Shining-Blade-back-issue/6257985It’s extremely hard to alter the engine so backpacks are dyeable. As far as the engine is considered, backpacks are considered items (like weapons) and gliders are considered effects. The engine needs to be fundamentally altered from the ground up to allow for item dye channels. It’s not impossible, but not easy. To add to this, the Shining Blade glider was designed on its own and after it was modeled one of the artists saw that it could be turned into a backpack for the players to enjoy. I think lazy is an inappropriate term for this situation when someone went the extra mile. However, I do understand your frustration with not knowing it couldn’t be dyed. That should be more clear.

And...

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dye-backpacks-Shining-Blade-back-issue/6260425If you need citation, then look no further. I’m the dev who concepted this glider! Granted, I’m an artist so I couldn’t give you the full technical rundown like Josh Petrie, but I do handle our engine daily.

Whether or not the equipment takes damage or not has no bearing on how the engine separates items. The engine sees armor as what is called a composite, it sees things attached to your characters like weapons and backpieces as items, and it sees gliders as a sort of middleground item/effect. Our file structure separates gliders as items, but because of how they pop into view, layer, and more easily allow for dyes it makes sense to basically treat them as effects. Now I’m not positive on this, but I’m going to hazard a guess that if we decided to make gliders as items, we’d have to retroactively alter the system in a way that would allow for weapons/backpieces to be dyed.

On its face doing this sounds like a great idea, since this is what fans want. As a fellow player I’d like this as well, but unfortunately our systems were not designed with this in mind. Not only would we have to go back and code each item so it can have dye channels/sufficient UI and prepare for the veritable bugfest that would ensue from altering a system that has years of work built on top of it, but we’d also have to retexture these items. Why? Our dye system is balanced around a red base color which has an impact on how every other color will appear when a channel shifts to it. Anyone who has played with dodging/burning in photoshop will know that red has some strange properties when it comes to shifts in values. Many dyes would have blown out/dull/oddly saturated textures as a result.

That’s just the tip of the iceberg. There’s SO much more to the process that I don’t have a firm grasp on.

The devs here are gamers and we love what we do. We want fans to get excited about what we make because we’re fans, too. However, we have players clamoring for every fix/feature under the sun so we have to do a ton of prioritizing. Game development is never plain and simple.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

These additional comments are about weapons, which use the same tech as the backpacks.

Here's a current dev explaining in September 2018 why we won't get dyeable weaponsLinsey Murdock wrote:There are trade offs we had to make in order to have a trading post and in order to further our technology on weapons themselves (like crazy animating stuff). We made that choice years before GW2 shipped. Along with cutting variable stats and GW1 style customization. Dyeable weapons is not even a topic of conversation, let alone being on the table. Yes, we can create technology to allow us to do things we could not have previously done but I don't see this being one of those things. In fact, we have probably even crossed the line of it being possible with all the crazy stuff we have done on weapons since ship. That is not even assessing the gross amount of work that would be required to update the hundreds of existing weapon skins, and that alone would probably make such a project out of scope.

[Q] I don't even want that all existing weapons are getting updated - More like just some new weapons, but it seems even that won't be really possible then I guess.

A

It's really not about the existing weapons, it's about the tech to do the dye system on weapons itself being incompatible with the tech we built the game on in order to have a trading post, animating weapons, etc.

And

A fundamental decision made nearly a decade ago, not a decision that is being continuously made and we just keep choosing no dye on weapons. It's the kind of decision you make at such a fundamental level that you don't get to change your mind a decade later and undo it. That's why it isn't even a topic of conversation here.

And finally

All those ascended weapons in different colors also have geometry differences. We have never done simple color shifts. The team that works on weapons has a rule against it.

---

Here's a former dev explaining why we can't dye weapons and aren't likely to ever be able to

...the decision to dye armor but not weapons was a design one (in the sense we chose to do it, not that there were insurmountable technical issues), and made pretty early.

• We wanted a much richer dye system for GW2 than we had in GW1.
• This would require some changes to the way that the source art was authored, which increased the complexity (and thus time) of doing so.
• That additional complexity pays off best for armor, which is more visible on-screen than weapons generally are,
• and so (I think) it was decided that we wouldn't bother authoring dye support into the weapon art.
• Eventually this decision would have led to code changes or optimization relying on that assumption, and we arrive at where we are today.

As with all things, it could be made possible to dye weapons with sufficient code and art resources sunk into it. But

it would be a nontrivial undertaking

(and probably a non-trivial patch download!) to

re-author all the existing source art with appropriate metadata for dye channels.

(text is verbatim; emphasis and bullet points are mine)

tl;dr It's only "possible" in a theoretical sense

• They decided long before launch that there wasn't enough bang for the buck (effort|time) to dye weapons.
• The existing game depends on that decision, so changing it would mean re-rendering every single weapon in the game (whether dyeable or not), plus additional QA to make sure weapons work properly with extra 'metadata'.

For what it's worth, a few of the past requests from the old forums

! https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Weapon-Dye/4662447! https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Weapon-dyes/3344528! https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dye-able-Weapons/5768082! https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Let-us-dye-weapons/4547784! https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Weapon-dye-Application/4818242! https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Weapons-back-Dye/5090753! https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dyes-for-weapons/5836961! https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-Dye-Channels-on-Legendaries/6521161

And some from the new forums:

• https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/50952/one-reason-to-dye-weapons

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

For what it's worth, I think we can safely assume that the vast majority of players (who care about fashion at all) would embrace dyeable backpacks (and weapons, for that matter). And it should be clear that even the devs like the idea.

So the issue isn't whether people would embrace this. The problem is that the option is technically incompatible with the game's technology.

In brief, we get more weapon skins more often, with richer textures and graphical effects, because they aren't dyeable. That tradeoff is fundamental to the code; it's not something that can be changed without a massive overhaul.

[kharmin.7683]

@Xervite.5493 said:P.S: When capes?

Never. Please use the forums search feature to read the many many threads already on this topic.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Xervite.5493" said:P.S: When capes?

Never.

Actually, that's less unlikely now. There are the scarfs and banner-style backpacks, which have some associated animations. The devs have said in the past that GW1 could have capes because they were basically cardboard with the illusion of movement and they thought it wasn't up to GW2 standards. Since then, they've introduced new tech that looks pretty good.

So I'm no longer willing to bet that they'll never be in the game, even if I doubt that we'd see them soon (or even "soon").

[Danikat.8537]

Yes I'd like it. But as explained above it's unlikely to happen because it's not remotely as simple as it seems from an outside perspective.

If they ever figure out a way to do it without having to re-create every back item (and weapon) from scratch then I'd be very happy to see it added, but because of the time required I'm not expecting to see it.

[b k.1648]

I'd like to be able to customise the jetpack, since the glider version of it is already dyeable.

But I'd like a pizza more right about now.

[EMPI.4013]

Why haven't they made back items stable is there a reason behind it?

[Dante.1763]

@ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:Why haven't they made back items stable is there a reason behind it?

Stable? or Dyeable? if you meant dyeable see @Illconceived Was Na.9781 post above.

[Fenom.9457]

Why wouldn’t I want more customization? But anet has already explained how it’s basically impossible

[Acheron.4731]

Can we please get green chaos weapons?Just a suggestion

[ROMANG.1903]

I'm no programmer, so what I will say here might be complete nonsense.

Is it possible to get around the system completely, by making a new skin every time we change the colours?For example, if I want to dye a backpiece, the interface would show it like any other piece of armor. But in the code, the game would create a new skin using my selected dyes, then apply it to my backpiece, just as if I used a transmutation charge.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"ROMANG.1903" said:I'm no programmer, so what I will say here might be complete nonsense.

Is it possible to get around the system completely, by making a new skin every time we change the colours?For example, if I want to dye a backpiece, the interface would show it like any other piece of armor. But in the code, the game would create a new skin using my selected dyes, then apply it to my backpiece, just as if I used a transmutation charge.

Short story: no.For starters, there's no way for the game to know where to put the colors. Dye channels are part of the design of the skin and weapons and backs don't have them.

---

Another possibility is that ANet could release multiple versions of skins, each with different dye schemas. The classic example are the number of winged backpacks: gold, black, white feathers. However, it's unlikely they'd do this for artistic, rather than technical reasons. (I think I have the relevant quotes above; if not, they are out there.)

• The artists don't do copy/paste. So even those gold|black|white feathers have differences in details, not just the coloring.
• Artwork is still time consuming. Copy/paste would speed things up, but it wouldn't be "cheap." And that means fewer other skins. Generally, greater variety works better for more people.

I think the most likely creative option would be to make very narrow requests for specific color variants to fill particular niches. For example:Fiery Dragon Sword versus Jormag's Breath (aka the Icy Dragon Sword)

!

The two are very similar (without being identical, even ignoring the colors).

I think ANet's artists could be persuaded to create other, visually interesting pairs (for dual wields) or "sets" (to fit various themes). Or perhaps even simply color variants, such as more torches with green flames or more "earthy" or earth-toned options in game full of fiery and icy ones.

I think some ideas would gain popular support, if the suggestion comes with a (brief) story, whether fitting existing lore or new.

[AzureTerra.1642]

Never really thought about it till this new Glider/Back item made of swords came out. Having it fixed as a back item but allow customization as a glider makes it standout how bad the yellow is and there is nothing you can do to make it better.

[ROMANG.1903]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:I'm no programmer, so what I will say here might be complete nonsense.

Is it possible to get around the system completely, by making a new skin every time we change the colours?For example, if I want to dye a backpiece, the interface would show it like any other piece of armor. But in the code, the game would create a new skin using my selected dyes, then apply it to my backpiece, just as if I used a transmutation charge.

Short story: no.For starters, there's no way for the game to know where to put the colors. Dye channels are part of the design of the skin and weapons and backs don't have them.

That's not true for backpieces that are also glider skins. The channels exist on these items, or if they don't it looks pretty easy to do by just using the attached glider's model.

[Linken.6345]

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:I'm no programmer, so what I will say here might be complete nonsense.

Is it possible to get around the system completely, by making a new skin every time we change the colours?For example, if I want to dye a backpiece, the interface would show it like any other piece of armor. But in the code, the game would create a new skin using my selected dyes, then apply it to my backpiece, just as if I used a transmutation charge.

Short story: no.For starters, there's no way for the game to know where to put the colors. Dye channels are part of the design of the skin and weapons and backs don't have them.

That's not true for backpieces that are also glider skins. The channels exist on these items, or if they don't it looks pretty easy to do by just using the attached glider's model.

the backpack is an item the glider on the other hand you dont have that so you can unequip it anywere

[Vancho.8750]

Why a poll, everyone wants to color the backpack item, the problem is that for some reason the back item is coded differently and they are not willing to touch it since the whole thing is one giant bowl of spaghetti and you do that and somehow WvW walls are broken. Also they will have to redo every single backpack item.This thread pops up a lot and the answer why they haven't done it is herehttps://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dye-backpacks-Shining-Blade-back-issue/first#post6267238 .There is the issue that most of the old Anet devs got laid off, quit or got swiped by Amazon or Microsoft, so probably they don't even know what kind of magic holds most of the game together.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:I'm no programmer, so what I will say here might be complete nonsense.

Is it possible to get around the system completely, by making a new skin every time we change the colours?For example, if I want to dye a backpiece, the interface would show it like any other piece of armor. But in the code, the game would create a new skin using my selected dyes, then apply it to my backpiece, just as if I used a transmutation charge.

Short story: no.For starters, there's no way for the game to know where to put the colors. Dye channels are part of the design of the skin and weapons and backs don't have them.

That's not true for backpieces that are also glider skins. The channels exist on these items, or if they don't it looks pretty easy to do by just using the attached glider's model.

Sorry, it is true for the backpieces, because the glider skins are entirely different "objects." As quoted above...

It’s extremely hard to alter the engine so backpacks are dyeable. As far as the engine is considered, backpacks are considered items (like weapons) and gliders are considered effects.