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POLL: Split The Ranked Queues? (Solo/DuoQ)


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Should the queues be split?

This may require a little bit of information to preface the decision.

More often than not, people see DuoQ or SoloQ and immediately go at eachother in extended debate on why DuoQ should be removed, or why the game should never be SoloQ-only ever again. Both sides always have some pretty valid points. Unchecked Merged Queues(Like DuoQ is) come with a plethora of easily-exploitable fundamentals that border on match manipulation. SoloQ is completely RNG where your team could be essentially any skill level at all, and where it takes the decision of one person to throw away the efforts of an entire match and their 4 teammates.

People usually seem to favor one or the other, owing to either liking the more even matchmaking in SoloQ, or the ability to play ranked with friends with DuoQ, among many other reasons.

Unfortunately, the queues are merged together so only one-side is actively catered to. I think this has done a lot to drive a wedge between the community, because no matter how you prefer to play; you're forced to be mixed with people queuing the opposite way, which a lot of people see as a straight advantage when it comes to higher rated players. However, removing the option to play with friends doesn't really solve anything, and just further contributes to catering to a single side. This is why I believe the queues should be split.

What does splitting the queues mean?

Splitting the queues means that SoloQ players queue separately to players queuing in teams. Everyone retains the ability to queue for ranked with or without friends, with or without that signature SoloQ RNG, but they would only be able to be matched against other similarly-structured teams. That means that a DuoQ could no longer be matched against SoloQ players. No matter how you choose to queue, you're guaranteed the same level of coordination. It gives players a choice, whereas the merged DuoQ we have now has taken that choice away.

Another benefit to splitting the queues is removing a lot of the metagaming and manipulation of the gamemode that's possible with merged queues. If you want a summary on some of the ways this is possible, I listed a few ways in another post of mine here:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/84034/why-duoq-should-be-removed-for-season-18-and-never-come-back/p1

Alternatively, Woodenpotatoes made a video that goes over some of these issues and more over at his second channel. The full video can be viewed and discussed here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/85316/wp-has-some-words

I have gone over it time and time again in my head, and honestly; I can't think of a single negative to splitting the queues so if you think of any, do share in your answer. I'll reiterate again, that splitting the queues does not mean removing/restricting DuoQ or SoloQ. It means splitting those queues apart to prevent them from ever being matched together.

What would have change about ranked?

Obviously 2 + 2v2 + 2 wouldn't work. Conquest is a 5v5 gamemode. I don't necessarily think that it has to be that way though. 6v6, or 4v4 would work fine for this... OR! Get this; you don't actually have to play Ranked with just 1 other friend. I don't know why we've resigned ourselves to playing with 1 other person. TeamQ was a thing once, regarded as one of the best ways to enjoy Ranked with friends.

Splitting the queues also gives MORE options to what Arenanet wants to do with teams. A new map's just been added 2v2. Imagine if Team Ranked cycled through various gamemodes other than Conquest, like 2v2 Deathmatch.

For example, another game that did something like this was Overwatch. Classic Ranked always existed, but Deathmatch, CTF, FFA, and Elimination were all given their own Ranked mode on rotation.

The Leaderboards would have to be split for this, but that might be healthy. Currently the Leaderboards only reward individual performance in a team-based game. If you have an entire Ranked queue dedicated to Teams, you can have Team or Guild Leaderboards.

Overall, I think Split Queues would help to reinvigorate the competitive aspect of Ranked sPvP. Do you think so too? Why? Why Not?

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@Ysmir.4986 said:Considering the absolutely dismal amount of people actually playing pvp, I can see no worse idea than splitting the playerbase.

Draining the population down into nothing but bots, boosted accounts, and pip farmers coming over from PvE seems like an objectively worse idea to me. If we went on much longer and you were to change your mind, we might actually be at a point where innovation is impossible at this rate.

Die from the sicknesses if we don't seek the health.

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@"Nova.3817" said:Split but team que is 2-3-5 not just duo

Just bring back team que in ranked

Honestly, it could be any of these and the games would still be closer in coordination at the very least. The matches were structured closer to this way back in previous seasons, and the amount of people playing and having fun with it were way higher.

Somewhere along the way people must have lost sight of that, because we've imposed self-limitations by encouraging that the only way to play as a "team" is with one singular other person amidst a pool of 8 random players, most being SoloQ.

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sigh

For the umpteenth time, we had a solo queue and a team (1-5 players) queue about a year after launch. While initially popular, solo queue rapidly died off in favor of team queue. In solo queue, you had too little control over who you got as a teammate, and players would play to be macho rather than win. It bred toxicity. Anyone who wanted a good team experience went to team queue - which was made of many people queuing solo because they enjoyed the teamwork and teamplay aspect of the game.

I don't know why we need to repeat this. Just switch ranked to a 1-5 queue all the time and be done with it.

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@Exedore.6320 said:sigh

For the umpteenth time, we had a solo queue and a team (1-5 players) queue about a year after launch. While initially popular, solo queue rapidly died off in favor of team queue. In solo queue, you had too little control over who you got as a teammate, and players would play to be macho rather than win. It bred toxicity. Anyone who wanted a good team experience went to team queue - which was made of many people queuing solo because they enjoyed the teamwork and teamplay aspect of the game.

I don't know why we need to repeat this. Just switch ranked to a 1-5 queue all the time and be done with it.

Actually it is a good thing to split, because people currently who duoq, can duoq, when they don't have a friend to duo, they can just chill in solo.

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I would'nt split the 5vs5 since then it may be more difficult for a solo player to get in a match (assuming anyone more hardcore into pvp would duo queue with another strong player). And you need 5 ppl for the duo queue ranked match which means 1 solo player would always end up to be the 3rd wheel in a double duo queue team.

I would however do the following:

  • Add 2vs2 maps in a seperate ranked league (seperate from the 5v5 matches and out of the, i still couldn't find them, custom matches)
  • Use only a duo rank queue

I guess this would promote more hardcore matches for ppl that are really into pvp. If you are a solo player that likes to team up with someone and has no friend online, he/she can use the LFG to find a matching player.

Someone mentioned ppl flock to the more popular team queue matches, which would be the 2vs2 ranked matches. But many players (I am one of those) only play ranked pvp to get their dailies done (and get some loot in return for the time invested). So stop the unranked matches as this will be the ranked 5 vs 5 as we know it. For this exact reason the 5 vs 5 will not die out. And some players may just prefer the 5 vs 5 ranked as it is atm and can continue to play it as they do (Bad players simply won't rank up high to be of nuisance).

P.s I wouldn't make it a 1-5 queue either.. If you happen to play the "wrong" class you can wait endlessly before the matchmaker decides to find a match for you. Last week I had to wait 5 minutes a couple of times in queue because the matchmaker couldn't find a ranked placement match for me on my chronomancer....

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@Exedore.6320 said:sigh

For the umpteenth time, we had a solo queue and a team (1-5 players) queue about a year after launch. While initially popular, solo queue rapidly died off in favor of team queue. In solo queue, you had too little control over who you got as a teammate, and players would play to be macho rather than win. It bred toxicity. Anyone who wanted a good team experience went to team queue - which was made of many people queuing solo because they enjoyed the teamwork and teamplay aspect of the game.

I don't know why we need to repeat this. Just switch ranked to a 1-5 queue all the time and be done with it.

Then restrict ranked to be a pre-made only game modes, and leave unranked for everything else. There's nothing competative about taking 5 pre-selected players and possibly getting matched against uncoordinated solo players. The way rating is set up pre-made only setting is where it makes the most sense with such a system. You want to force people to into being a team, pre-made ranked only. There it's a competative setting feeding into ATs and there's desire to play as a team because all the pips and rewards and all are locked behind that need to be in a team.

The most sense for Spvp, you'd have your ranked 2v2s/3v3s/ Conquest, and then your top end game would be winning ATs.

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@"Exedore.6320" said:sigh

For the umpteenth time, we had a solo queue and a team (1-5 players) queue about a year after launch. While initially popular, solo queue rapidly died off in favor of team queue. In solo queue, you had too little control over who you got as a teammate, and players would play to be macho rather than win. It bred toxicity. Anyone who wanted a good team experience went to team queue - which was made of many people queuing solo because they enjoyed the teamwork and teamplay aspect of the game.

I don't know why we need to repeat this. Just switch ranked to a 1-5 queue all the time and be done with it.

I don't see what's so wrong with giving people the choice still. If SoloQ dies again; then it dies, that hardly matters. What matters most is making Ranked competitive again. Imo, they should have never done away with split queues if what you say is true. It just doesn't make sense.

This is all just speculation too. Someone pointed me to a post by BenP where he essentially expects the exact opposite of what you're saying, in that he said 92% of players are SoloQ, and he suspects the team option would have terrible queue times for unfavorable matches, and that would die out far before SoloQ. Again, all speculation made on outdated data. Is it really fair to use that as justification to never innovate?

Here the comment, and shoutout to Shadowpass for the pointer: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/302906#Comment_302906

Merging even larger teams is still favoring one side; the minority of players even, and not only would every problem present with merged queues still exist, but they would be much easier to exploit when you have even more control over who goes on what team. If you split the SoloQers from the people queuing in teams, what happens in SoloQ would not affect you at all if you chose not to play it.

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@"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:This is all just speculation too. Someone pointed me to a post by BenP where he essentially expects the exact opposite of what you're saying, in that he said 92% of players are SoloQ, and he suspects the team option would have terrible queue times for unfavorable matches, and that would die out far before SoloQ. Again, all speculation made on outdated data. Is it really fair to use that as justification to never innovate?

Here the comment, and shoutout to Shadowpass for the pointer: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/302906#Comment_302906Bad conclusions based on bad or limited data.

  • 92% of players solo queue in a system where you can only solo/duo. That system has destroyed grouping, and because you can't make larger groups, many people don't even look. There used to be guild groups which would play occasionally but can't because they're too big to fit into the queue.
  • It assumes that all the solo players would play in the solo queue. From the last time we had split queues, we know this isn't the case; a lot of solo players used the team queue.
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@Exedore.6320 said:Bad conclusions based on bad or limited data.

  • 92% of players solo queue in a system where you can only solo/duo. That system has destroyed grouping, and because you can't make larger groups, many people don't even look. There used to be guild groups which would play occasionally but can't because they're too big to fit into the queue.
  • It assumes that all the solo players would play in the solo queue. From the last time we had split queues, we know this isn't the case; a lot of solo players used the team queue.

I agree with most of everything you just said. Wasn't me saying it after all, it was Arenanet.

The one thing I don't agree with is that increasing the amount of people you can queue with in a merged queue is actually going to do much to change that statistic. When top players and influencers like WP are telling people that DuoQing is a straight advantage, and people still refuse to DuoQ; it's clear they either don't care, don't agree with it, or don't have anyone to actually play with. I highly doubt increasing the number of people they could queue with is going to do much to change that, if they don't even bother to try with one; limited as that might be.

I know i'd still refuse to queue with other people so long as i'd be forced to play against uncoordinated SoloQ players. It's boring, noncompetitive, and it feels dirty. If I could play in a team, and be guaranteed to be matched against another team then i'd be more inclined to actually do it. If everyone moved away from SoloQ, or if it became a toxic wasteland at that point; that'd hardly matter, because teamplay would finally be rewarded in a team-based game. Just leaving them the option to queue separately if they feel like it is very important to me, and to what i'd argue would be anyone with any sense of fairness and competition.

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:makes no sense to split the queues. might as well get rid of duo altogether.

I mean, I like your enthusiasm... but that'd still be cratering to a single side.

if you want to fight the same 20 people over and over and over, be my guest. that number whatever it is would get substantially smaller during off hours. it would be a waste of resources. I think unranked/ ranked should be solo only and ATs should happen more often, scaling in duration so that no matter how many teams sign up there is at least a 10 minute break before the start of the next one.

editmaybe a longer break since making what is essentially a team q will reduce ranked population lol. 30 min? somethin.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:makes no sense to split the queues. might as well get rid of duo altogether.

I mean, I like your enthusiasm... but that'd still be cratering to a single side.

if you want to fight the same 20 people over and over and over, be my guest. that number whatever it is would get substantially smaller during off hours. it would be a waste of resources. I think unranked/ ranked should be solo only and ATs should happen more often, scaling in duration so that no matter how many teams sign up there is at least a 10 minute break before the start of the next one.

what your suggesting is team que with more steps lol there should be a team que just the way it is

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@Nova.3817 said:what your suggesting is team que with more steps lol there should be a team que just the way it is

there would be the same 6 teams over and over. the solo q'rs who seem to represent the majority of this game would rise in rebellion and anet would be forced to appease them, probably making a solo q only in the process. it would be a step backwards. with ATs more frequently everyone wins.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Nova.3817 said:what your suggesting is team que with more steps lol there should be a team que just the way it is

there would be the same 6 teams over and over. the solo q'rs who seem to represent the majority of this game would rise in rebellion and anet would be forced to appease them, probably making a solo q only in the process. it would be a step backwards. with ATs more frequently everyone wins.

i dont agree that there would be the same 6 teams but even if i subscribe to that.... let that be the issue with team que and that way those same 6 teams can que without having to wait for some arbitrary timer to effectively do the same thing.... solo que wouldnt have much of a leg to stand on unless theyd want to merge que which is exactly what happened in the past

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Nova.3817 said:what your suggesting is team que with more steps lol there should be a team que just the way it is

there would be the same 6 teams over and over. the solo q'rs who seem to represent the majority of this game would rise in rebellion and anet would be forced to appease them, probably making a solo q only in the process. it would be a step backwards. with ATs more frequently everyone wins.

there will be at MAX 3 team playing in the same time, if it's 5men q, and that's from all ranks, legendary to bronzei kid you not, anyone who think other wise need a reality check

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@Nova.3817 said:let that be the issue with team que and that way those same 6 teams can que without having to wait for some arbitrary timer to effectively do the same thing....solo que wouldnt have much of a leg to stand on unless theyd want to merge que which is exactly what happened in the past

the difference is with a timer those teams will not have to wait for each other to finish their games, can take breaks (breaks are good) for whatever reason, have time to maybe do 1 or 2 ranked matches which would help populate that more, and structure helps create competition. for example, in counter strike there are 24/7 death match maps. obviously the competition there is not as competitive since everyone respawns instantly and there is no penalty for losing. gw2 pvp atm is like one of those 24/7 cs servers.

obviously a ton of people want solo q, so apparently it does have a leg to stand on. both sides can win, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

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