Rampage...

[Vicariuz.1605]

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Vicariuz.1605 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:I've been asking for this for a good while now. Honestly? Good riddance. Warrior has great elites that were overshadowed by rampage for too long.

Yeah signet is definitely on par with things like Prime Light Beam, Chilled to the bone, Dagger Storm, Mass Invis, Shiro/Glint elites, Renewed Focus, Strength of the Pack, Weave Self, FGS, etc.

That redundant 5 might/fury/swiftness really utilizes that elite slot well.

Bubble also is so good that people use any movement ability in the game, or dodge 1 time, and are outside of its effect.

Yeah warrior elites are top tier.

Tantrum needed a nerf, lets not pretend like warrior elites are "great" though.

Yes let's compare the worst warrior elite to the best elite of every other profession. What you should be doing instead is comparing the best warrior elite (rampage) to the best that every other class has to offer. Pre-nerf rampage put every single elite you mentioned here to shame. Everyone would love to have it available to their class. At the end of the day, every single profession has bad elites. Some simply have no good options at all, while others have only one that is insanely good. Others have a variety of not so bad options.

Are you sure those are the best elites from every class? Breach, AoE Stab mantra, elixir X (now also nerfed), one wolf pack, Jaunt, Basi Venom, Mallyx/Jalis elites, again either Weave Self of FGS, are all ALSO better than signet or bubble, banner is such a meme its not even worth acknowledging exists and would be absolutely useless on a class that is side noding.

Like I already said, Tantrum needed a nerf, but do NOT pretend like warrior elites are in any way comparable to the other classes, because it is demonstrably false. The reason why Tantrum was taken was because there is NO other option. You should be able to understand this because even after it's damage coefficients were reduced to 0.01 making 3/5 of it's skills crit for under 100 damage at max might (warrior's elite skill "Rampage" now has the lowest damage coefficients in the game; and as for continuity sake, it's a joke and a prime example of how impossible it is for the dev team to understand and manage their own game), IT'S STILL TAKEN.

Pre-nerf Rampage did NOT put every other elite to shame and I would absolutely LOVE to hear which professions have no good option of elite.

[Ashimmu.4219]

Rampage lost power aspect of 3 skills out of 5, but #1 (autoattack) and #3 (rush) are still hitting hard.For me - it's fair nerf (even if i play war).

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Ashimmu.4219 said:Rampage lost power aspect of 3 skills out of 5, but #1 (autoattack) and #3 (rush) are still hitting hard.For me - it's fair nerf (even if i play war).

Ok I agree than. I love warrior in this game and I am guilty of leaning pretty hard on rampage but I'm also not a amazing player either lol but having 3 hard cc skills,2x hard hitting skills with damage resistance and pulsing stab seems fair to me as well.I read a few times times warrior players wanting all hard cc skills to have their damage dropped as well and no thanks cuz that effect bulls charge and stampede as well.

[Counter Terrorist.7421]

Well between 2013-late 2015 i never bothered using the warrior class and now its worse then it was back then. Just be wise and skip playing it until Anet screws up giving it some ability's to pair with other classes again. It won't be too long just a year or two of being useless unless you re-roll but that's entirely up to you.

[Lighter.5631]

im glad they nerfed the class rampage

[Axl.8924]

@Dadnir.5038 said:They should just get rid of the transformations elite skills once and for all. I really don't understand how ANet can enjoy that much keeping flawed design in it's game.

Let's be honest, when the transformations effectivness is superior or equal to it's numerous drawbacks, the transformation is OP. When it's the opposite, the transformation is just trash. There is no middle point, it's better to remove this junk instead of trying years after years to find a non existent middle point that would be shattered as soon as any other balance patch (even unrelated) kick in.

Am i having deja vu? wasn't this the same thing for necros transform?

if so it would be sad for any skill for warriors.

[Brujeria.7536]

Yeah the nerf was a godsend. I hope they also nerf the rest of the OP skills. Bullscharge is another nobrainer combining a massive stun with a gapcloser and an evade with damage, as well as several hammer skills and even greatword 3. Evade skills are meant to be defensive. Stuns should not be DPS skills.

I really hope they keep going like that and the balance in this game finally will become decent.

[Axl.8924]

I hope warrior doesn't get destroyed. They may counter necros and thieves sometimes but i don't want them to be gutted.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah the nerf was a godsend. I hope they also nerf the rest of the OP skills. Bullscharge is another nobrainer combining a massive stun with a gapcloser and an evade with damage, as well as several hammer skills and even greatword 3. Evade skills are meant to be defensive. Stuns should not be DPS skills.

I really hope they keep going like that and the balance in this game finally will become decent.

As long as that include everything on every other class as well, then its fine! No more Terror, chill to the bone, reaper 5 damage, etc.

[Brujeria.7536]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah the nerf was a godsend. I hope they also nerf the rest of the OP skills. Bullscharge is another nobrainer combining a massive stun with a gapcloser and an evade with damage, as well as several hammer skills and even greatword 3. Evade skills are meant to be defensive. Stuns should not be DPS skills.

I really hope they keep going like that and the balance in this game finally will become decent.

As long as that include everything on every other class as well, then its fine! No more Terror, chill to the bone, reaper 5 damage, etc.

It should include loaded skill. I think CCs on necromancer are actually fine. Reaper 5 has a huge anmiation, gated by a long cooldown within a class mechanic on a class with no mobility, also no movement or evade frames included as a single target skill. Chill to the bone is an elite skill which is also fine. Fear has a bootload of counters, basicly its the weakest form of cc by far as it has the counters of both conditions and stun effects, but the benefits of only one. Out of all classes i think with necromancer the balance on CCs is the most clear and defined, like ever single one of its ccs has a tradeoff or counterplay attached.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah the nerf was a godsend. I hope they also nerf the rest of the OP skills. Bullscharge is another nobrainer combining a massive stun with a gapcloser and an evade with damage, as well as several hammer skills and even greatword 3. Evade skills are meant to be defensive. Stuns should not be DPS skills.

I really hope they keep going like that and the balance in this game finally will become decent.

As long as that include everything on every other class as well, then its fine! No more Terror, chill to the bone, reaper 5 damage, etc.

It should include loaded skill. I think CCs on necromancer are actually fine. Reaper 5 has a huge anmiation, gated by a long cooldown within a class mechanic on a class with no mobility, also no movement or evade frames included as a single target skill. Chill to the bone is an elite skill which is also fine. Fear has a bootload of counters, basicly its the weakest form of cc by far as it has the counters of both conditions and stun effects, but the benefits of only one. Out of all classes i think with necromancer the balance on CCs is the most clear and defined, like ever single one of its ccs has a tradeoff or counterplay attached.

oh yes, is this what you less yourself?Unblockable CCCC with damageCC that hits throught wallsCC that nukes.CC both long range and AoE.Fear is in fact weak as "hard CC" but its not all that weak when you apply it 3-4 times back to back, and stab that supposedly counters CC gets corrupted into it.

[Brujeria.7536]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah the nerf was a godsend. I hope they also nerf the rest of the OP skills. Bullscharge is another nobrainer combining a massive stun with a gapcloser and an evade with damage, as well as several hammer skills and even greatword 3. Evade skills are meant to be defensive. Stuns should not be DPS skills.

I really hope they keep going like that and the balance in this game finally will become decent.

As long as that include everything on every other class as well, then its fine! No more Terror, chill to the bone, reaper 5 damage, etc.

It should include loaded skill. I think CCs on necromancer are actually fine. Reaper 5 has a huge anmiation, gated by a long cooldown within a class mechanic on a class with no mobility, also no movement or evade frames included as a single target skill. Chill to the bone is an elite skill which is also fine. Fear has a bootload of counters, basicly its the weakest form of cc by far as it has the counters of both conditions and stun effects, but the benefits of only one. Out of all classes i think with necromancer the balance on CCs is the most clear and defined, like ever single one of its ccs has a tradeoff or counterplay attached.

oh yes, is this what you less yourself?Unblockable CCCC with damageCC that hits throught wallsCC that nukes.CC both long range and AoE.Fear is in fact weak as "hard CC" but its not all that weak when you apply it 3-4 times back to back, and stab that supposedly counters CC gets corrupted into it.

You cant reliably chain fear against decent players. Corrupts wont work reliable against boonspam. You can just stop using stability and use one of the other many counters fear has. Also fear requires both, trait and stat investments to do any noticeable damage at all.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah the nerf was a godsend. I hope they also nerf the rest of the OP skills. Bullscharge is another nobrainer combining a massive stun with a gapcloser and an evade with damage, as well as several hammer skills and even greatword 3. Evade skills are meant to be defensive. Stuns should not be DPS skills.

I really hope they keep going like that and the balance in this game finally will become decent.

As long as that include everything on every other class as well, then its fine! No more Terror, chill to the bone, reaper 5 damage, etc.

It should include loaded skill. I think CCs on necromancer are actually fine. Reaper 5 has a huge anmiation, gated by a long cooldown within a class mechanic on a class with no mobility, also no movement or evade frames included as a single target skill. Chill to the bone is an elite skill which is also fine. Fear has a bootload of counters, basicly its the weakest form of cc by far as it has the counters of both conditions and stun effects, but the benefits of only one. Out of all classes i think with necromancer the balance on CCs is the most clear and defined, like ever single one of its ccs has a tradeoff or counterplay attached.

Right. Necro player says Necro CC is fine.

I'm not saying Necro CC OP or overtuned, but consider the context of everything else. In the case of Bull's Charge...if it didn't have an evade Warrior's would get CC'd out of it all the time. It has a longer activation time than Shield Bash, and if you try to use it from any kind of distance beyond typical melee range it gives the target yet another full second to react to it. There is a reason Warrior's use Rush to bait out dodges or other defenses, it is very telegraphed and the point from activation to when the hit connects (from any distance) is quite a lengthy period of time when you consider how quickly someone can dodge or react in another way to it.

Like I get it, Reaper suffers in the mobility department and most other classes just walk over it in that regard and Fear has twice the amount of ways to counter it than normal CC, but there is more access to Fear as opposed to other hard CC on top of Necro having almost all of the boon corrupt that exists in the game (as well as probably the most boon strip) to just turn Stability against their target. Necros have their strengths, but people have been spoiled in the past with how monkey Scourge had been early on, and for a lengthy amount of time, as well as how monkey Reaper has been in the past and still can be due to all of the damage buffs it accumulates on itself.

So lets not pretend here that Warrior doesn't have tradeoffs to its CC or other attacks when it most certainly does. Bull's Charge has a longer activation time than even Shield Bash (which got nerfed a couple years ago to what it is now), Shield Bash is slow to activate as well and has no evade attached to it and has a much shorter travel distance than Bull's Charge. Eviscerate has a very telegraphed animation and it is not affected by Quickness. Arcing Slice is also another telegraphed skill that is regularly dodged or avoided in some way.

This is yet another circumstance, at least in my opinion, where the tiny size of the Conquest capture points is more of the "problem" rather than the skills from the classes. That is the exact reason why Rampage was much more powerful in sPvP than it was in WvW, as WvW allowed for many more kiting opportunities in that you're not essentially "forced" to stick close to or inside of the tiny capture point. The moment you're outside of that scenario and if you fight a Warrior who has popped Rampage in a spot on the map where you can either more easily break line of sight or kite more Rampage swiftly drops in effectiveness. Does that mean it shouldn't have been nerfed? No, I still think it should be a CC bot mode and do less damage rather than it be CC and have the capability of nuking targets down while having 50% damage reduction and pulsing stability. It was overloaded and unnecessary for what its use should be, Bull's Charge does not fall into that category.

[Brujeria.7536]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah the nerf was a godsend. I hope they also nerf the rest of the OP skills. Bullscharge is another nobrainer combining a massive stun with a gapcloser and an evade with damage, as well as several hammer skills and even greatword 3. Evade skills are meant to be defensive. Stuns should not be DPS skills.

I really hope they keep going like that and the balance in this game finally will become decent.

As long as that include everything on every other class as well, then its fine! No more Terror, chill to the bone, reaper 5 damage, etc.

It should include loaded skill. I think CCs on necromancer are actually fine. Reaper 5 has a huge anmiation, gated by a long cooldown within a class mechanic on a class with no mobility, also no movement or evade frames included as a single target skill. Chill to the bone is an elite skill which is also fine. Fear has a bootload of counters, basicly its the weakest form of cc by far as it has the counters of both conditions and stun effects, but the benefits of only one. Out of all classes i think with necromancer the balance on CCs is the most clear and defined, like ever single one of its ccs has a tradeoff or counterplay attached.

Right. Necro player says Necro CC is fine.

I'm not saying Necro CC OP or overtuned, but consider the context of everything else. In the case of Bull's Charge...if it didn't have an evade Warrior's would get CC'd out of it all the time. It has a longer activation time than Shield Bash, and if you try to use it from

any

kind of distance beyond typical melee range it gives the target yet another full second to react to it. There is a reason Warrior's use Rush to bait out dodges or other defenses, it is

very

telegraphed and the point from activation to when the hit connects (from any distance) is quite a lengthy period of time when you consider how quickly someone can dodge or react in another way to it.

Well you should be able to dodge a 3 second cc like every time if you invest you dodge roll for it. Compare this to the before mentioned Reaper 5 CC, it has no mobility, and even longer casttime and stuns for a shorter duration. The thing is if skills are so loaded that you cant decide on what to dodge things get ugly. In warriors case for example you cant just decide to okay, i eat the cc so i can dodge the damage afterwards because the CC itself does a hefty amount of damage to begin with. Same goes for gapclosers. If things are so wrongly tuned choice becomes an illusion.

Like I get it, Reaper suffers in the mobility department and most other classes just walk over it in that regard and Fear has twice the amount of ways to counter it than normal CC, but there is more access to Fear as opposed to other hard CC on top of Necro having almost all of the boon corrupt that exists in the game (as well as probably the most boon strip) to just turn Stability against their target. Necros have their strengths, but people have been spoiled in the past with how monkey Scourge had been early on, and for a lengthy amount of time, as well as how monkey Reaper has been in the past and still can be due to all of the damage buffs it accumulates on itself.

I wouldnt say reaper or necro "suffers" in the mobility department, the mobility just isnt as easy usable as with other classes and in my book thats actually a good thing. Skills and effects should come at a cost, should require some kind of effort or tradeoff. And yeah, the boon corrupt has been slowly added on most weapon skills to counter balance the boon spam, just like stability gets handed out like candy nowadays because the game and CC effects have been so powercreeped. Both arent good things

So lets not pretend here that Warrior doesn't have tradeoffs to its CC or other attacks when it most certainly does. Bull's Charge has a longer activation time than even Shield Bash (which got nerfed a couple years ago to what it is now), Shield Bash is slow to activate as well and has no evade attached to it and has a much shorter travel distance than Bull's Charge. Eviscerate has a very telegraphed animation and it is not affected by Quickness. Arcing Slice is also another telegraphed skill that is regularly dodged or avoided in some way.

Well yeah, most "damage skills" are fine for warrior, what isnt fine is, that almost all skills do damage, even the stuns and evade skills, even a freaking dodgeroll can. Im not talking about mindlessly nerfing warriors, i want the entire game to become balanced. Remove the skill clutters, CCs are just that. Movement skills are just that. Damage skills do damage. Warrior, alongside revenant are some of the biggest offenders in this thought process. Warrior specifically suffers from not having as many active skills as other professions, at the bottom end this means the skills became more and more loaded over time. Now the real solution to this is certainly not to load the skills, but to give the warrior more so they can spread the effects evenly between more skills - for example giving warriors a third weapon set.

This is yet another circumstance, at least in my opinion, where the tiny size of the Conquest capture points is more of the "problem" rather than the skills from the classes. That is the exact reason why Rampage was much more powerful in sPvP than it was in WvW, as WvW allowed for many more kiting opportunities in that you're not essentially "forced" to stick close to or inside of the tiny capture point. The moment you're outside of that scenario and if you fight a Warrior who has popped Rampage in a spot on the map where you can either more easily break line of sight or kite more Rampage swiftly drops in effectiveness. Does that mean it shouldn't have been nerfed? No, I still think it should be a CC bot mode and do less damage rather than it be CC and have the capability of nuking targets down while having 50% damage reduction and pulsing stability. It was overloaded and unnecessary for what its use should be, Bull's Charge does not fall into that category.

You are right about the capture point size, or more specificly that the entire balance is centered around the concept of capture points. If the balance would be based around the classes themself, on a 1v1 scenario so that every class can stand toe to toe to another and the outcome of a fight is really depending on skill and tactics they would have a much better groundwork to do things. So what should bulls charge be then? A cc? A gapcloser? A damage skill? A way to negate damage and retaliate? At the moment its all of that covering most big gameplay elements.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:Yeah the nerf was a godsend. I hope they also nerf the rest of the OP skills. Bullscharge is another nobrainer combining a massive stun with a gapcloser and an evade with damage, as well as several hammer skills and even greatword 3. Evade skills are meant to be defensive. Stuns should not be DPS skills.

I really hope they keep going like that and the balance in this game finally will become decent.

As long as that include everything on every other class as well, then its fine! No more Terror, chill to the bone, reaper 5 damage, etc.

It should include loaded skill. I think CCs on necromancer are actually fine. Reaper 5 has a huge anmiation, gated by a long cooldown within a class mechanic on a class with no mobility, also no movement or evade frames included as a single target skill. Chill to the bone is an elite skill which is also fine. Fear has a bootload of counters, basicly its the weakest form of cc by far as it has the counters of both conditions and stun effects, but the benefits of only one. Out of all classes i think with necromancer the balance on CCs is the most clear and defined, like ever single one of its ccs has a tradeoff or counterplay attached.

Right. Necro player says Necro CC is fine.

I'm not saying Necro CC OP or overtuned, but consider the context of everything else. In the case of Bull's Charge...if it didn't have an evade Warrior's would get CC'd out of it all the time. It has a longer activation time than Shield Bash, and if you try to use it from

any

kind of distance beyond typical melee range it gives the target yet another full second to react to it. There is a reason Warrior's use Rush to bait out dodges or other defenses, it is

very

telegraphed and the point from activation to when the hit connects (from any distance) is quite a lengthy period of time when you consider how quickly someone can dodge or react in another way to it.

Well you should be able to dodge a 3 second cc like every time if you invest you dodge roll for it. Compare this to the before mentioned Reaper 5 CC, it has no mobility, and even longer casttime and stuns for a shorter duration. The thing is if skills are so loaded that you cant decide on what to dodge things get ugly. In warriors case for example you cant just decide to okay, i eat the cc so i can dodge the damage afterwards because the CC itself does a hefty amount of damage to begin with. Same goes for gapclosers. If things are so wrongly tuned choice becomes an illusion.

Like I get it, Reaper suffers in the mobility department and most other classes just walk over it in that regard and Fear has twice the amount of ways to counter it than normal CC, but there is more access to Fear as opposed to other hard CC on top of Necro having almost all of the boon corrupt that exists in the game (as well as probably the most boon strip) to just turn Stability against their target. Necros have their strengths, but people have been spoiled in the past with how monkey Scourge had been early on, and for a lengthy amount of time, as well as how monkey Reaper has been in the past and still can be due to all of the damage buffs it accumulates on itself.

I wouldnt say reaper or necro "suffers" in the mobility department, the mobility just isnt as easy usable as with other classes and in my book thats actually a good thing. Skills and effects should come at a cost, should require some kind of effort or tradeoff. And yeah, the boon corrupt has been slowly added on most weapon skills to counter balance the boon spam, just like stability gets handed out like candy nowadays because the game and CC effects have been so powercreeped. Both arent good things

So lets not pretend here that Warrior doesn't have tradeoffs to its CC or other attacks when it most certainly does. Bull's Charge has a longer activation time than even Shield Bash (which got nerfed a couple years ago to what it is now), Shield Bash is slow to activate as well and has no evade attached to it and has a much shorter travel distance than Bull's Charge. Eviscerate has a very telegraphed animation and it is

not

affected by Quickness. Arcing Slice is also another telegraphed skill that is regularly dodged or avoided in some way.

Well yeah, most "damage skills" are fine for warrior, what isnt fine is, that almost all skills do damage, even the stuns and evade skills, even a freaking dodgeroll can. Im not talking about mindlessly nerfing warriors, i want the entire game to become balanced. Remove the skill clutters, CCs are just that. Movement skills are just that. Damage skills do damage. Warrior, alongside revenant are some of the biggest offenders in this thought process. Warrior specifically suffers from not having as many active skills as other professions, at the bottom end this means the skills became more and more loaded over time. Now the real solution to this is certainly not to load the skills, but to give the warrior more so they can spread the effects evenly between more skills - for example giving warriors a third weapon set.

This is yet another circumstance, at least in my opinion, where the

tiny

size of the Conquest capture points is more of the "problem" rather than the skills from the classes. That is the exact reason why Rampage was

much

more powerful in sPvP than it was in WvW, as WvW allowed for many more kiting opportunities in that you're not essentially "forced" to stick close to or inside of the

tiny

capture point. The moment you're outside of that scenario and if you fight a Warrior who has popped Rampage in a spot on the map where you can either more easily break line of sight or kite more Rampage swiftly drops in effectiveness. Does that mean it shouldn't have been nerfed? No, I still think it should be a CC bot mode and do less damage rather than it be CC

and

have the capability of nuking targets down while having 50% damage reduction and pulsing stability. It was overloaded and unnecessary for what its use should be, Bull's Charge does not fall into that category.

You are right about the capture point size, or more specificly that the entire balance is centered around the concept of capture points. If the balance would be based around the classes themself, on a 1v1 scenario so that every class can stand toe to toe to another and the outcome of a fight is really depending on skill and tactics they would have a much better groundwork to do things. So what should bulls charge be then? A cc? A gapcloser? A damage skill? A way to negate damage and retaliate? At the moment its all of that covering most big gameplay elements.

I would say that if they reduced the damage that Bull's Charge did, so long as they gave basically every other CC skill in the game the same treatment within the same balance patch, then it would be just fine. I don't care if Bull's Charge does damage, I want it for the gap close/kite or the protected CC so that a Ranger or otherwise just doesn't entirely nope them out of it at 1500+ range. Like I said, the drawback to Bull's Charge, even if it is a "protected" CC skill is that it has an even longer activation time than Shield Bash and that if you use it at any range beyond point blank melee range you will see it coming and have plenty of time to react.

Warrior's biggest drawback is all of the telegraphed skills that it has, thats why I actually enjoy playing Warrior so much because if you want to beat anyone who isn't just some monkey ooking around with their skills then you need to try and plan for baits and play mind games, otherwise that other player is just going to dodge, block, invuln, blind, etc your important skills because they are so drastically telegraphed. Its why Herald and Dragonhunter are Warrior's biggest hard counters. Which I'm fine with because you can still pull a win if you tilt the fight in your favor with good baits, but if you remove that evade on Bull's Charge you are opening Warrior up to getting bodied by near everything else in the game that can CC or damage at any range beyond melee.

[Vagrant.7206]

@"Ajaxx.3157" said:Rampage is a choice now.

CC with 2,4 and 5 or Damage with AA or 3.

But yeah, they OMEGAYOINKED it. lol

This.

Before this change, Rampage was not a choice for warriors. It was simply an "I WIN" button that you couldn't afford to pass up. It had everything -- damage, mobility, stability, might generation, damage reduction, and lots of CC. At least now it won't absolutely murder everyone, despite only losing the damage.

@Vicariuz.1605 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Vicariuz.1605 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:I've been asking for this for a good while now. Honestly? Good riddance. Warrior has great elites that were overshadowed by rampage for too long.

Yeah signet is definitely on par with things like Prime Light Beam, Chilled to the bone, Dagger Storm, Mass Invis, Shiro/Glint elites, Renewed Focus, Strength of the Pack, Weave Self, FGS, etc.

That redundant 5 might/fury/swiftness really utilizes that elite slot well.

Bubble also is so good that people use any movement ability in the game, or dodge 1 time, and are outside of its effect.

Yeah warrior elites are top tier.

Tantrum needed a nerf, lets not pretend like warrior elites are "great" though.

Yes let's compare the worst warrior elite to the best elite of every other profession. What you should be doing instead is comparing the best warrior elite (rampage) to the best that every other class has to offer. Pre-nerf rampage put every single elite you mentioned here to shame. Everyone would love to have it available to their class. At the end of the day, every single profession has bad elites. Some simply have no good options at all, while others have only one that is insanely good. Others have a variety of not so bad options.Pre-nerf Rampage did NOT put every other elite to shame and I would absolutely LOVE to hear which professions have no good option of elite.

Uh yeah it did. It was a core elite that could change the face of a fight easily. It was braindead easy to use, and stupidly powerful.

Want a core elite to compare against? Elite Mortar Kit. Or Supply Crate. Elite mortar kit still sees some use in defensive builds because it can help with area denial. But it's not a game-changer by itself and very easy to counter (reflects, projectile destruction, simply moving your butt out of the fields, strafing). Supply crate is weak as all get out, you never see it on any meta build.

Hell, let's throw in Prime Light Beam to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The Dash skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

[Crozame.4098]

Hell, let's throw in Prime Light Beam to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The Dash skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Seriously, lol. OMG... SO holos dont use other skills to chain their CC. only wars do funny.

[Lighter.5631]

@"Vagrant.7206" said:

Hell, let's throw in Prime Light Beam to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The Dash skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Hell, photo forge has 5 skill and also has 4 other F tool belt skills, and burst skill only has one, thats 9 skill compared to one/two if spellbreaker. really good comparison bro.

[Vagrant.7206]

@"Crozame.4098" said:

Hell, let's throw in

Prime Light Beam

to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The

Dash

skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Seriously, lol. OMG... SO holos dont use other skills to chain their CC. only wars do funny.

We're talking about elite skills. This is all on one skill - Rampage. Don't forget that warrior can chain other CC's on their main bar if they drop out of Rampage.

@Lighter.5631 said:

@"Vagrant.7206" said:

Hell, let's throw in

Prime Light Beam

to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The

Dash

skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Hell, photo forge has 5 skill and also has 4 other F tool belt skills, and burst skill only has one, thats 9 skill compared to one/two if spellbreaker. really good comparison bro.

Yeah, because photon forge is the elite mechanic, not the elite skill. It also only features one CC that burns a lot of the resource meter.

[Lighter.5631]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Crozame.4098" said:

Hell, let's throw in

Prime Light Beam

to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The

Dash

skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Seriously, lol. OMG... SO holos dont use other skills to chain their CC. only wars do funny.

We're talking about elite skills. This is all on one skill - Rampage. Don't forget that warrior can chain other CC's on their main bar if they drop out of Rampage.

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Hell, let's throw in

Prime Light Beam

to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The

Dash

skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Hell, photo forge has 5 skill and also has 4 other F tool belt skills, and burst skill only has one, thats 9 skill compared to one/two if spellbreaker. really good comparison bro.

Yeah, because photon forge is the elite mechanic, not the elite skill.

bruh, you are comparing elite skill to elite skill, why can't i compare elite mechanic to elite mechanic lol

[Vagrant.7206]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Crozame.4098" said:

Hell, let's throw in

Prime Light Beam

to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The

Dash

skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Seriously, lol. OMG... SO holos dont use other skills to chain their CC. only wars do funny.

We're talking about elite skills. This is all on one skill - Rampage. Don't forget that warrior can chain other CC's on their main bar if they drop out of Rampage.

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Hell, let's throw in

Prime Light Beam

to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The

Dash

skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Hell, photo forge has 5 skill and also has 4 other F tool belt skills, and burst skill only has one, thats 9 skill compared to one/two if spellbreaker. really good comparison bro.

Yeah, because photon forge is the elite mechanic, not the elite skill.

bruh, you are comparing elite skill to elite skill, why can't i compare elite mechanic to elite mechanic lol

That's called a red herring fallacy.

[Lighter.5631]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Crozame.4098" said:

Hell, let's throw in

Prime Light Beam

to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The

Dash

skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Seriously, lol. OMG... SO holos dont use other skills to chain their CC. only wars do funny.

We're talking about elite skills. This is all on one skill - Rampage. Don't forget that warrior can chain other CC's on their main bar if they drop out of Rampage.

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Hell, let's throw in

Prime Light Beam

to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The

Dash

skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Hell, photo forge has 5 skill and also has 4 other F tool belt skills, and burst skill only has one, thats 9 skill compared to one/two if spellbreaker. really good comparison bro.

Yeah, because photon forge is the elite mechanic, not the elite skill.

bruh, you are comparing elite skill to elite skill, why can't i compare elite mechanic to elite mechanic lol

That's called a

red herring fallacy

.

you comparing rampage to PLB is red herring.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Crozame.4098" said:

Hell, let's throw in

Prime Light Beam

to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The

Dash

skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Seriously, lol. OMG... SO holos dont use other skills to chain their CC. only wars do funny.

We're talking about elite skills. This is all on one skill - Rampage. Don't forget that warrior can chain other CC's on their main bar if they drop out of Rampage.

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Hell, let's throw in

Prime Light Beam

to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The

Dash

skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Hell, photo forge has 5 skill and also has 4 other F tool belt skills, and burst skill only has one, thats 9 skill compared to one/two if spellbreaker. really good comparison bro.

Yeah, because photon forge is the elite mechanic, not the elite skill.

bruh, you are comparing elite skill to elite skill, why can't i compare elite mechanic to elite mechanic lol

That's called a

red herring fallacy

.

you comparing rampage to PLB is red herring.

They're both elite skills.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

[Old post. nvm]

[Deniara Devious.3948]

Core warrior along with thief is the most seen core class ( personal exp ).I see 100 core warriors for every core engi I see. ( there is 1 core engi main i keep seing lol. he is the only core i have seen in 300 games this season other then boom )

It is easy to see why. Core engineer sucks. Arenanet has repeatedly balanced overpowered engineer elite specs by toning down the core ( = wrong approach). Holosmith still needs adjustments down, but core engineer needs to be upgraded to the same level of other cores.

I have spent thousands of hours as core engineer, but it simply is uphill battle vs elite specs and equally skilled opponents. In recent month I have almost solely played core mesmer. Despite my playing experience as mesmer is 1/40th of engineer, I can win 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2, get easy disengage, be still useful of big group fights and so on. Core mesmer is loads better than core engineer.

Core warrior is still one of the strongest core specs, thanks to greatsword and related traits, like forceful greatsword. If warrior's greatsword would be nerfed down the level of some other weapons, like longbow or rifle, core warrior would die. Now almost every warrior spec is abusing greatsword.

Other strong core specs include guardian and thief.