Stealth should keep/put players into Combat

[kash.9213]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:stealth in games is fine but it needs a decent cd.Which IMO is the simplest solution. It's an easy two step implementation that target all stealth:

Step 1)Stealth can no longer be stacked.

Step 2)Upon exiting stealth, you are revealed for ~10s.

And there you go.

Why would you think that's a good idea and how would you fix trait lines and skills that would be affected?What traits and skills would be broken by this other than just falling under new rules (such as you can only leap combo in a smoke field once)? Sure, I can see some passive traits such as stealthing at low hp clearing reveal before stealth. That's fine. Easy fixes.

I would add a rule that says stealth can be stacked but only by other peoples combo finishers.I would disagree, but a stealth blast should give longer stealth (currently it's just 3s, I would double that to 6s or maybe a couple secs longer).

Step 1 - if we're not going to have some longer duration stealth for positioning and recovery than we only really have stealth to pop off a stealth attack and at that point just scrap stealth and give us a better shadowstep arsenal.

Step 2 -10 seconds a long time to go without another stealth attack, especially if you're trying to Mercy your way out of a jam. Again, might as well just pimp out our shadowstepping and scrap stealth at this point. Although, I'd appreciate a longer Revealed Training or Flickering Shadows, broken either way we go.

[Offair.2563]

This game is the most cancerous when it comes to stealth abilities.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:IMO ALL boons and effects (besides swiftness maybe) should have their durations greatly reduced when outisde of combat.

Prestacking anything OOC the way you can is just pretty stupid.

Then you get janky stuff where people are tagging guards to put swiftness dolyaks, for example. I mean, I like the creativity that clever people would employ, but it's not the elegant solution you might at first imagine it to be.

I did say to make a exception for swiftness? Plus why does that matter? The dolyak isn't in combat most of the time unless it gets attacked so why does it matter if people are getting themselves in combat.

Also who buffs dolyaks in 2019?

I mean, people can hit you out of nowhere fully buffed with 25 stacks of might, while you certainly aren't going to be constantly putting defensive boons on yourself. And the worst you can think of is it may take more effort to escort yaks?

[schokelmei.8271]

@Anput.4620 said:

@miguelsil.6324 said:Or like most normal better balanced games, you cannot stealth in combat.

In about every MOBA and BR(which have stealth) or FPS you can stealth while in combat.

And this relates to GW2 how?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@miguelsil.6324 said:Or like most normal better balanced games, you cannot stealth in combat.

In about every MOBA and BR(which have stealth) or FPS you can stealth while in combat.

And this relates to GW2 how?

In other big mmo ive played u can stealth while in combat like eso,archeage and bdo and actually get more and longer stealth easier than u do in gw2 lol

[Sobx.1758]

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@"miguelsil.6324" said:Or like most normal better balanced games, you cannot stealth in combat.

In about every MOBA and BR(which have stealth) or FPS you can stealth while in combat.

And this relates to GW2 how?

Are you lost? He literally quoted what he answered to, which was:" Or like most normal better balanced games, you cannot stealth in combat. "

So when someone talks about "other games" while pushing YOUR agenda it's fine, but then someone else proving his point is a blatant lie by -also- bringing up "other games" is suddenly "irrelevant to gw2". Sure, it is. But it's as irrelevant as the post he answered to and you didn't seem to mind that one, eh?Nice double standards.

[miguelsil.6324]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@miguelsil.6324 said:Or like most normal better balanced games, you cannot stealth in combat.

In about every MOBA and BR(which have stealth) or FPS you can stealth while in combat.

And this relates to GW2 how?

In other big mmo ive played u can stealth while in combat like eso,archeage and bdo and actually get more and longer stealth easier than u do in gw2 lol

Altho not nearly as toxic and broken as in gw2 .

[Sobx.1758]

@miguelsil.6324 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@miguelsil.6324 said:Or like most normal better balanced games, you cannot stealth in combat.

In about every MOBA and BR(which have stealth) or FPS you can stealth while in combat.

And this relates to GW2 how?

In other big mmo ive played u can stealth while in combat like eso,archeage and bdo and actually get more and longer stealth easier than u do in gw2 lol

Altho not nearly as toxic and broken as in gw2 .

Walk me us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion. Seems like just another empty, made up claim.

[schokelmei.8271]

You can't compare a moba or br game to an mmorpg. That's like saying but in "Fifa my endurance bar is way better".And no, in better balanced games you can't stealth in combat. I don't think ESO is "a better balanced game" The whole pvp/rvr system is terrible and broken.If you look at WoW for example you have a way better usage of stealth, if you take a look at SW:ToR you see the same better concept and if you go back to warhammer online you see how stealth can be designed without being full overpowered.

[Svarty.8019]

@"Virdo.1540" said:yep also had this kitten, where some enemy was in battle with me, stood close to me and got out of combat while stealth.

until he healed up completely and attacked again. I was in battle the whole time.

(Conditions should keep the Attacker & the attacked in combat)

There are a million solutions, but it seems Arenanet has Decision Paralysis.

[Sobx.1758]

@"gebrechen.5643" said:You can't compare a moba or br game to an mmorpg. That's like saying but in "Fifa my endurance bar is way better".

Of course you can and it's way closer to the genre, which is also why they can easly intertwine with each other. If you don't understand that, go make some research asap. FIFA on the other hand is a totally different pair, which is why nobody attempts to compare anything there.And again, it was an answer to "Or like most normal better balanced games, you cannot stealth in combat.", literally not a word about mmorpgs.

And no, in better balanced games you can't stealth in combat. I don't think ESO is "a better balanced game" The whole pvp/rvr system is terrible and broken.

Yes, you can. If you want to 'fight for balance' here, stealth isn't even close to fixing anything here -even moreso with the change he proposed above.

If you look at WoW for example you have a way better usage of stealth, if you take a look at SW:ToR you see the same better concept and if you go back to warhammer online you see how stealth can be designed without being full overpowered.

Because WoW is the pinnacle of balance, ok. And it's not "better" just because you like it more. :<And if I wanted to play wow, i'd "probably" play wow.

---

@Svarty.8019 said:

@"Virdo.1540" said:yep also had this kitten, where some enemy was in battle with me, stood close to me and got out of combat while stealth.

until he healed up completely and attacked again. I was in battle the whole time.

(Conditions should keep the Attacker & the attacked in combat)

There are a million solutions, but it seems Arenanet has

Decision Paralysis

.

Ooooor they just disagree with you, but then you couldn't make remarks at them for not implementing changes YOU want.

[Hynax.9536]

@"Ubi.4136" said:It's been commented on endlessly. Yes, stealth needs a rework. There are several things though that would need to happen.

1. Stealth needs to be permanent, turn it on and you are stealthed until in combat. It should not require casting over and over to maintain.
2. Combat prevents stealth, deadeye would still need a get out of combat elite, not sure if 1 or 2 charges works.
3. Stealth needs to reduce movement speed, so that you can never move full speed while stealthed, with traits, etc, maybe 80% movespeed....this does not apply just to thief, but stealth in general, every class should move slower stealthed, you are, after all, trying to be stealthy.
4. Stealthed players are visible if standing right on top of you, meaning you still have a fraction of a second to respond before backstabbed.

Other things that would have to happen:

5. Every weapon skill from every class now requires a target to cast. Utility skills could still be cast without a target, but weapon skills from EVERY class would require a target to use. No free casting aoe spam everywhere to find stealthed players, weapon skills should require a target. It also means they can't be used to run away from fights too.

With those set, now they need to rework all the traits and skills for thieves to adjust to stealth being a permanent thing till in combat, and all the other supporting traits need a new purpose. Traits from other classes need to be fixed now as well with regards to stealth.

That's why this isn't ever going to happen.

So you would change stealth in gw2 to be the same way it works in WoW, which is pretty decent and balanced at all.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@miguelsil.6324 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@miguelsil.6324 said:Or like most normal better balanced games, you cannot stealth in combat.

In about every MOBA and BR(which have stealth) or FPS you can stealth while in combat.

And this relates to GW2 how?

In other big mmo ive played u can stealth while in combat like eso,archeage and bdo and actually get more and longer stealth easier than u do in gw2 lol

Altho not nearly as toxic and broken as in gw2 .

Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion. Seems like just another empty, made up claim.

Because in eso , if you get attacked > you get destealthIf you get Dot > you get destealthIf you Dot and then try to stealth > you get revealedIf you attack once and miss > you get destealthIf you ''courch'' stealth , you move slowly

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@miguelsil.6324 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@miguelsil.6324 said:Or like most normal better balanced games, you cannot stealth in combat.

In about every MOBA and BR(which have stealth) or FPS you can stealth while in combat.

And this relates to GW2 how?

In other big mmo ive played u can stealth while in combat like eso,archeage and bdo and actually get more and longer stealth easier than u do in gw2 lol

Altho not nearly as toxic and broken as in gw2 .

Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion. Seems like just another empty, made up claim.

Because in eso , if you get attacked > you get destealthIf you get Dot > you get destealthIf you Dot and then try to stealth > you get revealedIf you attack once and miss > you get destealthIf you ''courch'' stealth , you move slowly

True but stealth is so much easier maintained and setting up Hanks is so much easier in eso cus u press a button every 3 sec not have to use a skill to create a smoke feild and use most ur resources to leap thru it etc etc over and over, anoying as kitten design to be honest. Unless its changes yeah u get revealed on dots but after getting dots stealth clears them in eso

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@miguelsil.6324 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@miguelsil.6324 said:Or like most normal better balanced games, you cannot stealth in combat.

In about every MOBA and BR(which have stealth) or FPS you can stealth while in combat.

And this relates to GW2 how?

In other big mmo ive played u can stealth while in combat like eso,archeage and bdo and actually get more and longer stealth easier than u do in gw2 lol

Altho not nearly as toxic and broken as in gw2 .

Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion. Seems like just another empty, made up claim.

Because in eso , if you get attacked > you get destealthIf you get Dot > you get destealthIf you Dot and then try to stealth > you get revealedIf you attack once and miss > you get destealthIf you ''courch'' stealth , you move slowly

True but stealth is so much easier maintained and setting up Hanks is so much easier in eso cus u press a button every 3 sec not have to use a skill to create a smoke feild and use most ur resources to leap thru it etc etc over and over, anoying as kitten design to be honest

If you miss in eso , the game doesnt allow to use backstab another time > you get revieledIf you move slowly in stealth , you have problem catching p pplShould i continue , about how easy is to get destealth ?

Which game is more noobie friendy ?

[Svarty.8019]

@Sobx.1758 said:Ooooor they just disagree with you, but then you couldn't make remarks at them for not implementing changes YOU want.

That's an easy comment to make when you're the favoured one. Let's not forget that the game is in such an amazing state because they listened to one set of people - oh hang on...

[Weasel.9684]

The problem with this is ppl tend to assume when thief’s stealth they get out of combat because they’ve healed to full when they appear again.And they haven’t with the shadow arts and heal skills they tend to just get to full in that 6 seconds or so. They leave combat like all other classes do distance and not getting hit for a prolonged period...

[Sobx.1758]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion. Seems like just another empty, made up claim.

Because in eso , if you get attacked > you get destealthIf you get Dot > you get destealthIf you Dot and then try to stealth > you get revealedIf you attack once and miss > you get destealthIf you ''courch'' stealth , you move slowly

Is "miguelsil" your second account? Also your answer doesn't answer the question or supports what he said, all you did was describe a mechanic in a single different game. Which wasn't the point at all.

miguelsi said , that eso dont have such toxix mechanicYou said : ''Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion''You try to change the subject , and i like it :P( i have a second account , but i am still thinking or not to boycot future games . It will effect other games and the bold oceanologist be sad , like the old kitten)

If we want to be accurate, he never singled out ESO, he was talking about "other games". Even then after someone limited it to few specific games, eso was never singled out. Except for the people that want to keep pushing their point based solely on eso stealth mechanic instead of earlier stated "other balanced games", so they keep spamming about eso 24/7 regardless of what the context or earlier answer was.

I'm not changing the subject at all though? I think you just lost some context on the way here :p

[Sobx.1758]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Ooooor they just disagree with you, but then you couldn't make remarks at them for not implementing changes YOU want.

That's an easy comment to make when you're the favoured one. Let's not forget that the game is in such an amazing state because they listened to one set of people - oh hang on...

Who's the faovoured one? Thief? You make that claim that based on what exactly?And sure, the comment was easy to make, but not because someone's favoured here, but because what I said was true (and pretty obvious) and you know that.They listened to what "Set of people" exactly?

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion. Seems like just another empty, made up claim.

Because in eso , if you get attacked > you get destealthIf you get Dot > you get destealthIf you Dot and then try to stealth > you get revealedIf you attack once and miss > you get destealthIf you ''courch'' stealth , you move slowly

Is "miguelsil" your second account? Also your answer doesn't answer the question or supports what he said, all you did was describe a mechanic in a single different game. Which wasn't the point at all.

miguelsi said , that eso dont have such toxix mechanicYou said : ''Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion''You try to change the subject , and i like it :P( i have a second account , but i am still thinking or not to boycot future games . It will effect other games and the bold oceanologist be sad , like the old kitten)

If we want to be accurate, he never singled out ESO, he was talking about "other games". Even then after someone limited it to few specific games, eso was never singled out. Except for the people that want to keep pushing their point based solely on eso stealth mechanic instead of earlier stated "other balanced games", so they keep spamming about eso 24/7 regardless of what the context or earlier answer was.

I'm not changing the subject at all though? I think you just lost some context on the way here :p

Which other games , should we talk for their stealth mechanic ?All the games , have either stealth that break on damage or getting hit , or reduced movement speed .Even in BR it has high cd , but their attacks/spells you have to manully aim , and not Tab and hit an enemy

(dont try to offend other players . Stealth wont change , but you dont have to drive them away . let them whine and they will leave in 3 months - just like GW2 Launch.Otherwise , you will leave bofore that)

[Sobx.1758]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion. Seems like just another empty, made up claim.

Because in eso , if you get attacked > you get destealthIf you get Dot > you get destealthIf you Dot and then try to stealth > you get revealedIf you attack once and miss > you get destealthIf you ''courch'' stealth , you move slowly

Is "miguelsil" your second account? Also your answer doesn't answer the question or supports what he said, all you did was describe a mechanic in a single different game. Which wasn't the point at all.

miguelsi said , that eso dont have such toxix mechanicYou said : ''Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion''You try to change the subject , and i like it :P( i have a second account , but i am still thinking or not to boycot future games . It will effect other games and the bold oceanologist be sad , like the old kitten)

If we want to be accurate, he never singled out ESO, he was talking about "other games". Even then after someone limited it to few specific games, eso was never singled out. Except for the people that want to keep pushing their point based solely on eso stealth mechanic instead of earlier stated "other balanced games", so they keep spamming about eso 24/7 regardless of what the context or earlier answer was.

I'm not changing the subject at all though? I think you just lost some context on the way here :p

Which other games , should we talk for their stealth mechanic ?

Literally any other game with stealth mechanic would be my guess? Or -even better- gw2 instead of trying to claim that it should copy others and that "X game's mechanic is better because I said so"?

All the games , have either stealth that break on damage or getting hit , or reduced movement speed .

No they don't, that's just false.

Even in BR it has high cd , but their attacks/spells you have to manully aim , and not Tab and hit an enemy

I can't decide if it's false or not, because it's unclear what you think "high cd" is :p

And for some added clarity I'll repeat what I "always" repeated: I don't think the stealth is a problem at all, what is problematic is perma stealth or anything near that. Stealth in itself is fine as is and not as strong as some people make it to be.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion. Seems like just another empty, made up claim.

Because in eso , if you get attacked > you get destealthIf you get Dot > you get destealthIf you Dot and then try to stealth > you get revealedIf you attack once and miss > you get destealthIf you ''courch'' stealth , you move slowly

Is "miguelsil" your second account? Also your answer doesn't answer the question or supports what he said, all you did was describe a mechanic in a single different game. Which wasn't the point at all.

miguelsi said , that eso dont have such toxix mechanicYou said : ''Walk

me

us throught your logic here and tell everyone how you came up with that conclusion''You try to change the subject , and i like it :P( i have a second account , but i am still thinking or not to boycot future games . It will effect other games and the bold oceanologist be sad , like the old kitten)

If we want to be accurate, he never singled out ESO, he was talking about "other games". Even then after someone limited it to few specific games, eso was never singled out. Except for the people that want to keep pushing their point based solely on eso stealth mechanic instead of earlier stated "other balanced games", so they keep spamming about eso 24/7 regardless of what the context or earlier answer was.

I'm not changing the subject at all though? I think you just lost some context on the way here :p

Which other games , should we talk for their stealth mechanic ?

Literally any other game with stealth mechanic would be my guess? Or -even better- gw2 instead of trying to claim that it should copy others and that "X game's mechanic is better because I said so"?

All the games , have either stealth that break on damage or getting hit , or reduced movement speed .

No they don't, that's just false.

Even in BR it has high cd , but their attacks/spells you have to manully aim , and not Tab and hit an enemy

I can't decide if it's false or not, because it's unclear what you think "high cd" is :p

Tell me the game , which has a more noobie approch than GW2Lets anaylyze your argumentsWho has more toxic design ?

[Svarty.8019]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Ooooor they just disagree with you, but then you couldn't make remarks at them for not implementing changes YOU want.

That's an easy comment to make when you're the favoured one. Let's not forget that the game is in such an amazing state because they listened to one set of people - oh hang on...

Who's the faovoured one? Thief? You make that claim that based on what exactly?And sure, the comment was easy to make, but not because someone's favoured here, but because what I said was true (and pretty obvious) and you know that.They listened to what "Set of people" exactly?

They have consistently exclusively listened and developed their game around the desired and expressions of gankers, more specifically the Thief. It's been nerfed ONE TIME in the history of GW2.

The Thief is so OP that players are boycotting PvP because of all the 5-Thief teams.

[Sobx.1758]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Ooooor they just disagree with you, but then you couldn't make remarks at them for not implementing changes YOU want.

That's an easy comment to make when you're the favoured one. Let's not forget that the game is in such an amazing state because they listened to one set of people - oh hang on...

Who's the faovoured one? Thief? You make that claim that based on what exactly?And sure, the comment was easy to make, but not because someone's favoured here, but because what I said was true (and pretty obvious) and you know that.They listened to what "Set of people" exactly?

They have consistently exclusively listened and developed their game around the desired and expressions of

gankers

, more specifically the Thief. It's been nerfed ONE TIME in the history of GW2.

That's a blatant lie and I'm not sure if you're even remotely serious right now lmao.

The Thief is so OP that players are boycotting PvP because of all the 5-Thief teams.

This is WvW, so even if true, it's still not about stealth, so I don't see how that's relevant here?

[Svarty.8019]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Ooooor they just disagree with you, but then you couldn't make remarks at them for not implementing changes YOU want.

That's an easy comment to make when you're the favoured one. Let's not forget that the game is in such an amazing state because they listened to one set of people - oh hang on...

Who's the faovoured one? Thief? You make that claim that based on what exactly?And sure, the comment was easy to make, but not because someone's favoured here, but because what I said was true (and pretty obvious) and you know that.They listened to what "Set of people" exactly?

They have consistently exclusively listened and developed their game around the desired and expressions of

gankers

, more specifically the Thief. It's been nerfed ONE TIME in the history of GW2.

That's a blatant lie and I'm not sure if you're even remotely serious right now lmao.

The Thief is so OP that players are boycotting PvP because of all the 5-Thief teams.

This is WvW, so even if true, it's still not about stealth, so I don't see how that's relevant here?

It's an answer to your question.