NERF STEALTH NOW

[hotte in space.2158]

Its by far the most effective unfair unfun ability of whole PvP, better than any blocks or evades, and has even got very little to do with skillful playing. In conjunction with high mobility the perfect tool for map control. And this will be now the only thing that doesnt get nerfed hard? Hallelujah

[Burnfall.9573]

+> @"hotte in space.2158" said:

Its by far the most effective unfair unfun ability of whole PvP, better than any blocks or evades, and has even got very little to do with skillful playing. In conjunction with high mobility the perfect tool for map control. And this will be now the only thing that doesnt get nerfed hard? Hallelujah

+10

Yet again, we are being told to our faces that "Counterplay Is Important?"

BE HONEST WITH US. THAT'S ALL WE ASK FOR

[hotte in space.2158]

@"Burnfall.9573" said:> "Counterplay Is Important"

Oh there is counterplay against stealth: guess where the thief could be now and do some coincidental lucky strike AOE-damage then. Anet thinks this is strong :p

[Ghostof Luzifer.6159]

@hotte in space.2158 said:Its by far the most effective unfair unfun ability of whole PvP, better than any blocks or evades, and has even got very little to do with skillful playing. In conjunction with high mobility the perfect tool for map control. And this will be now the only thing that doesnt get nerfed hard? Hallelujah

dont nerf stealth implement more reveal mechanics to skills. That is more fun in general, rewards people that can anticipate a thiefs attacks, punishes bad thiefs and rewards good thiefs.

[Tharan.9085]

@Burnfall.9573 said:+> @"hotte in space.2158" said:

Its by far the most effective unfair unfun ability of whole PvP, better than any blocks or evades, and has even got very little to do with skillful playing. In conjunction with high mobility the perfect tool for map control. And this will be now the only thing that doesnt get nerfed hard? Hallelujah

+10

Yet again, we are being told to our faces that "Counterplay Is Important?"

BE HONEST WITH US. THAT'S ALL WE ASK FOR

The counterplay is called DH

[Flapjack.7231]

@Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

@"hotte in space.2158" said:Its by far the most effective unfair unfun ability of whole PvP, better than any blocks or evades, and has even got very little to do with skillful playing. In conjunction with high mobility the perfect tool for map control. And this will be now the only thing that doesnt get nerfed hard? Hallelujah

dont nerf stealth implement more reveal mechanics to skills. That is more fun in general, rewards people that can anticipate a thiefs attacks, punishes bad thiefs and rewards good thiefs.

Somehow i agggreee. But then again: "anticipation" is nothing but guessing and therefor not really skillfull gameplay. It is like dodging steal - possible, but still just per guessing.

[Arkantos.7460]

just make revealed as long as stealth before = equivalent deal

[UNOwen.7132]

Stealth is a lot worse than evades or block (like, a lot worse) at anything in-combat. Out of combat stealth has its big uses, but now burst isnt really going to work anymore, so all its good for is sneaking past people who are respawning. Which is not that big.

[hotte in space.2158]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Stealth is a lot worse than evades or block (like, a lot worse) at anything in-combat. Out of combat stealth has its big uses, but now burst isnt really going to work anymore, so all its good for is sneaking past people who are respawning. Which is not that big.

1) Its good for sneaking respawners, its good for sneaking sidenoders, its good for sneaking anybody.2) Stealth lasts much too long (talking bout thief here), thats why we want it to get nerfed. We dont want to delete stealth, but the duration has to get shaved hard to make it more fair.3) No class can spam blocks, but thief can spam stealth.4) If you dont miss the right moment, you can escape easily instead of being killed. Half of all classes cant escape at all because of being to slow.5) When I m fighting a thief on half way between our free close cap and fought over mid cap, I dont know where to run then. If I take the wrong choice, the match could be decided by this. In a case like this, stealth is effective just because of being in stealth.6) When theres a team opening a match in stealth while the other team hasnt got stealth, its mostly a free kill for the stealth team.

Of course stealth is not a combat ability, but it gives you so much tactical advantages, that if I had the choice between block or stealth, I would immediately chose to have stealth. I can understand that you defend your class, but in my and many other players opinion, PvP would be much more fair balanced and enjoyable, when theres less stealth. I mean much less !

[UNOwen.7132]

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Stealth is a lot worse than evades or block (like, a

lot

worse) at anything in-combat. Out of combat stealth has its big uses, but now burst isnt really going to work anymore, so all its good for is sneaking past people who are respawning. Which is not that big.

1) Its good for sneaking respawners, its good for sneaking sidenoders, its good for sneaking anybody.2) Stealth lasts much too long (talking bout thief here), thats why we want it to get nerfed. We dont want to delete stealth, but the duration has to get shaved hard to make it more fair.3) No class can spam blocks, but thief can spam stealth.4) If you dont miss the right moment, you can escape easily instead of being killed. Half of all classes cant escape at all because of being to slow.5) When I m fighting a thief on half way between our free close cap and fought over mid cap, I dont know where to run then. If I take the wrong choice, the match could be decided by this. In a case like this, stealth is effective just because of being in stealth.6) When theres a team opening a match in stealth while the other team hasnt got stealth, its mostly a free kill for the stealth team.

Of course stealth is not a combat ability, but it gives you so much tactical advantages, that if I had the choice between block or stealth, I would immediately chose to have stealth. I can understand that you defend your class, but in my and many other players opinion, PvP would be much more fair balanced and enjoyable, when theres less stealth. I mean much less !

Its only good for sneaking on people if you dont need initiative to fight them (which is to say, soon not at all). Stealth only lasts long if the thief goes out of his way to deplete all his initiative for blast or leap finishers in black powder. Several classes can spam block or block-like abilities (not to mention evades), in fact moreso than thief can "spam stealth" (gotta wait for at least 15 seconds for the slowest stealth that lasts about, uh, 2 or 3 seconds?). Yes it can be used to run away, but you know what also can be used for that? Shortbow 5. Which is faster, costs less initiative and is much safer. Stealth still leaves you vulnerable to AoE or melee cleave, since the enemy knows your position right after you stealth, and can track you if sufficiently skilled. Plus why single out stealth for its ability to escape, Warrior is quite easily the best class for running away on flat ground, and they dont use stealth.

I will say that the stealth on open thing is fair, but Im also not sure how you can fix that. Since yknow, thats a smoke field + finisher thing. I guess you could make blast finishers not grant stealth in smoke fields anymore. But at the same time, what would you replace it with? Blind? Given that smoke fields usually blind anyway, thats pretty redundant.

Yeah thats something you only say if youre so accustomed to your blocking ability you really dont realise just how broken it is. If Thieves had the option to swap stealth for block, they would immediately take it and laugh as people realise just how much stronger block really is. There is a reason the most popular thief build over the last couple years was the one that couldnt stealth at all. Says everything, doesnt it? Besides, what are your suggestions for "nerfing stealth"?

Edit: Actually, for that matter, how exactly is the thief stealthing up in-combat, with you not knowing where theyre going and unable to kill them? The only way any real thief build has to go into stealth is Black Powder + Heartseeker. Even at its fastest, thats 1.5 seconds you have time to just hit the thief, and you also know where theyre going (unless they then turn around, but theyre not going to be able to do much with the 2 seconds of stealth youre getting).

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Stealth is a lot worse than evades or block (like, a

lot

worse) at anything in-combat. Out of combat stealth has its big uses, but now burst isnt really going to work anymore, so all its good for is sneaking past people who are respawning. Which is not that big.

1) Its good for sneaking respawners, its good for sneaking sidenoders, its good for sneaking anybody.2) Stealth lasts much too long (talking bout thief here), thats why we want it to get nerfed. We dont want to delete stealth, but the duration has to get shaved hard to make it more fair.3) No class can spam blocks, but thief can spam stealth.4) If you dont miss the right moment, you can escape easily instead of being killed. Half of all classes cant escape at all because of being to slow.5) When I m fighting a thief on half way between our free close cap and fought over mid cap, I dont know where to run then. If I take the wrong choice, the match could be decided by this. In a case like this, stealth is effective just because of being in stealth.6) When theres a team opening a match in stealth while the other team hasnt got stealth, its mostly a free kill for the stealth team.

Of course stealth is not a combat ability, but it gives you so much tactical advantages, that if I had the choice between block or stealth, I would immediately chose to have stealth. I can understand that you defend your class, but in my and many other players opinion, PvP would be much more fair balanced and enjoyable, when theres less stealth. I mean much less !

Its only good for sneaking on people if you dont need initiative to fight them (which is to say, soon not at all). Stealth only lasts long if the thief goes out of his way to deplete all his initiative for blast or leap finishers in black powder. Several classes can spam block or block-like abilities (not to mention evades), in fact moreso than thief can "spam stealth" (gotta wait for at least 15 seconds for the slowest stealth that lasts about, uh, 2 or 3 seconds?). Yes it can be used to run away, but you know what also can be used for that? Shortbow 5. Which is faster, costs less initiative and is much safer. Stealth still leaves you vulnerable to AoE or melee cleave, since the enemy knows your position right after you stealth, and can track you if sufficiently skilled. Plus why single out stealth for its ability to escape, Warrior is quite easily the best class for running away on flat ground, and they dont use stealth.

I will say that the stealth on open thing is fair, but Im also not sure how you can fix that. Since yknow, thats a smoke field + finisher thing. I guess you could make blast finishers not grant stealth in smoke fields anymore. But at the same time, what would you replace it with? Blind? Given that smoke fields usually blind anyway, thats pretty redundant.

Yeah thats something you only say if youre so accustomed to your blocking ability you really dont realise just how broken it is. If Thieves had the option to swap stealth for block, they would immediately take it and laugh as people realise just how

much

stronger block really is. There is a reason the most popular thief build over the last couple years was the one that couldnt stealth

at all

. Says everything, doesnt it? Besides, what are your suggestions for "nerfing stealth"?

Edit: Actually, for that matter, how exactly is the thief stealthing up in-combat, with you not knowing where theyre going and unable to kill them? The only way any real thief build has to go into stealth is Black Powder + Heartseeker. Even at its fastest, thats 1.5 seconds you have time to just hit the thief, and you also know where theyre going (unless they then turn around, but theyre not going to be able to do much with the 2 seconds of stealth youre getting).

This^ but ur assuming players of this game actually would attempt to learn to fight a opponent instead of thinking their carry build will do it for them and if not run to forums to complain. Few nights back a thief kept throwing insults at me calling me a bs hacker cuz hed drop black powder and I'd cleave him to death while I know hes jumping thru the field for stealth lol hed become visible in downstate and say "that's bs I was invisibile". The fact that u can be cleaved while stealth'd and the fact the smoke fields are visible give u a small area u know where the thief is, use it lol.I kno that's a lot to ask of this community lol

[Cobrakon.3108]

Give us back our duelability from year 1 and ill trade you some stealth. Alas people that turn with wasd wont agree though.. they just want to play dungeons and dragons.

[reikken.4961]

damage output being nerfed is a nerf to stealth

stealth is at its strongest when it's used to land bursts of damage, or used to avoid bursts of damage.

As an extreme example: A guy who relies on one-shotting people from stealth is hit way harder by a global 33% damage reduction than a guy who does sustained damage. The stealth one-shot guy now leaves his targets with 20-30% of their health left instead of killing them. That's really bad for him since now his target has a chance to turn on him and kill him. The sustained damage guy, however, doesn't really mind. It's just business as usual. His fights are just longer.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Stealth is a lot worse than evades or block (like, a

lot

worse) at anything in-combat. Out of combat stealth has its big uses, but now burst isnt really going to work anymore, so all its good for is sneaking past people who are respawning. Which is not that big.

1) Its good for sneaking respawners, its good for sneaking sidenoders, its good for sneaking anybody.2) Stealth lasts much too long (talking bout thief here), thats why we want it to get nerfed. We dont want to delete stealth, but the duration has to get shaved hard to make it more fair.3) No class can spam blocks, but thief can spam stealth.4) If you dont miss the right moment, you can escape easily instead of being killed. Half of all classes cant escape at all because of being to slow.5) When I m fighting a thief on half way between our free close cap and fought over mid cap, I dont know where to run then. If I take the wrong choice, the match could be decided by this. In a case like this, stealth is effective just because of being in stealth.6) When theres a team opening a match in stealth while the other team hasnt got stealth, its mostly a free kill for the stealth team.

Of course stealth is not a combat ability, but it gives you so much tactical advantages, that if I had the choice between block or stealth, I would immediately chose to have stealth. I can understand that you defend your class, but in my and many other players opinion, PvP would be much more fair balanced and enjoyable, when theres less stealth. I mean much less !

Its only good for sneaking on people if you dont need initiative to fight them (which is to say, soon not at all). Stealth only lasts long if the thief goes out of his way to deplete all his initiative for blast or leap finishers in black powder. Several classes can spam block or block-like abilities (not to mention evades), in fact moreso than thief can "spam stealth" (gotta wait for at least 15 seconds for the slowest stealth that lasts about, uh, 2 or 3 seconds?). Yes it can be used to run away, but you know what also can be used for that? Shortbow 5. Which is faster, costs less initiative and is much safer. Stealth still leaves you vulnerable to AoE or melee cleave, since the enemy knows your position right after you stealth, and can track you if sufficiently skilled. Plus why single out stealth for its ability to escape, Warrior is quite easily the best class for running away on flat ground, and they dont use stealth.

I will say that the stealth on open thing is fair, but Im also not sure how you can fix that. Since yknow, thats a smoke field + finisher thing. I guess you could make blast finishers not grant stealth in smoke fields anymore. But at the same time, what would you replace it with? Blind? Given that smoke fields usually blind anyway, thats pretty redundant.

Yeah thats something you only say if youre so accustomed to your blocking ability you really dont realise just how broken it is. If Thieves had the option to swap stealth for block, they would immediately take it and laugh as people realise just how

much

stronger block really is. There is a reason the most popular thief build over the last couple years was the one that couldnt stealth

at all

. Says everything, doesnt it? Besides, what are your suggestions for "nerfing stealth"?

Edit: Actually, for that matter, how exactly is the thief stealthing up in-combat, with you not knowing where theyre going and unable to kill them? The only way any real thief build has to go into stealth is Black Powder + Heartseeker. Even at its fastest, thats 1.5 seconds you have time to just hit the thief, and you also know where theyre going (unless they then turn around, but theyre not going to be able to do much with the 2 seconds of stealth youre getting).

This^ but ur assuming players of this game actually would attempt to learn to fight a opponent instead of thinking their carry build will do it for them and if not run to forums to complain. Few nights back a thief kept throwing insults at me calling me a bs hacker cuz hed drop black powder and I'd cleave him to death while I know hes jumping thru the field for stealth lol hed become visible in downstate and say "that's bs I was invisibile". The fact that u can be cleaved while stealth'd and the fact the smoke fields are visible give u a small area u know where the thief is, use it lol.I kno that's a lot to ask of this community lol

how about this brilliant idea by a Thief Profession player who suggested today in chat, ''how about using a system that punishes Thieves whenever they stealth like self-inflicted conditions wounds, similar to Necromancer? I think that would be fair?'

I believe the community would find that fair and would agree also to it

Psycoprophet and Thief Profession players; your thoughts?

[Vancho.8750]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Stealth is a lot worse than evades or block (like, a

lot

worse) at anything in-combat. Out of combat stealth has its big uses, but now burst isnt really going to work anymore, so all its good for is sneaking past people who are respawning. Which is not that big.

1) Its good for sneaking respawners, its good for sneaking sidenoders, its good for sneaking anybody.2) Stealth lasts much too long (talking bout thief here), thats why we want it to get nerfed. We dont want to delete stealth, but the duration has to get shaved hard to make it more fair.3) No class can spam blocks, but thief can spam stealth.4) If you dont miss the right moment, you can escape easily instead of being killed. Half of all classes cant escape at all because of being to slow.5) When I m fighting a thief on half way between our free close cap and fought over mid cap, I dont know where to run then. If I take the wrong choice, the match could be decided by this. In a case like this, stealth is effective just because of being in stealth.6) When theres a team opening a match in stealth while the other team hasnt got stealth, its mostly a free kill for the stealth team.

Of course stealth is not a combat ability, but it gives you so much tactical advantages, that if I had the choice between block or stealth, I would immediately chose to have stealth. I can understand that you defend your class, but in my and many other players opinion, PvP would be much more fair balanced and enjoyable, when theres less stealth. I mean much less !

Its only good for sneaking on people if you dont need initiative to fight them (which is to say, soon not at all). Stealth only lasts long if the thief goes out of his way to deplete all his initiative for blast or leap finishers in black powder. Several classes can spam block or block-like abilities (not to mention evades), in fact moreso than thief can "spam stealth" (gotta wait for at least 15 seconds for the slowest stealth that lasts about, uh, 2 or 3 seconds?). Yes it can be used to run away, but you know what also can be used for that? Shortbow 5. Which is faster, costs less initiative and is much safer. Stealth still leaves you vulnerable to AoE or melee cleave, since the enemy knows your position right after you stealth, and can track you if sufficiently skilled. Plus why single out stealth for its ability to escape, Warrior is quite easily the best class for running away on flat ground, and they dont use stealth.

I will say that the stealth on open thing is fair, but Im also not sure how you can fix that. Since yknow, thats a smoke field + finisher thing. I guess you could make blast finishers not grant stealth in smoke fields anymore. But at the same time, what would you replace it with? Blind? Given that smoke fields usually blind anyway, thats pretty redundant.

Yeah thats something you only say if youre so accustomed to your blocking ability you really dont realise just how broken it is. If Thieves had the option to swap stealth for block, they would immediately take it and laugh as people realise just how

much

stronger block really is. There is a reason the most popular thief build over the last couple years was the one that couldnt stealth

at all

. Says everything, doesnt it? Besides, what are your suggestions for "nerfing stealth"?

Edit: Actually, for that matter, how exactly is the thief stealthing up in-combat, with you not knowing where theyre going and unable to kill them? The only way any real thief build has to go into stealth is Black Powder + Heartseeker. Even at its fastest, thats 1.5 seconds you have time to just hit the thief, and you also know where theyre going (unless they then turn around, but theyre not going to be able to do much with the 2 seconds of stealth youre getting).

This^ but ur assuming players of this game actually would attempt to learn to fight a opponent instead of thinking their carry build will do it for them and if not run to forums to complain. Few nights back a thief kept throwing insults at me calling me a bs hacker cuz hed drop black powder and I'd cleave him to death while I know hes jumping thru the field for stealth lol hed become visible in downstate and say "that's bs I was invisibile". The fact that u can be cleaved while stealth'd and the fact the smoke fields are visible give u a small area u know where the thief is, use it lol.I kno that's a lot to ask of this community lol

how about this brilliant idea by a Thief Profession player who suggested today in chat, ''how about using a system that punishes Thieves whenever they stealth like self-inflicted conditions wounds, similar to Necromancer? I think that would be fair?'

I believe the community would find that fair and would agree also to it

Psycoprophet and Thief Profession players; your thoughts?

They get pulsing cripple on them when they stealth, you being slow while sneaking and all that RP stuff that makes sense.Stealth was ok when there were passive defensive traits which acted as circuit breakers so you didn't get oneshot, they got nerfed but the reason they were implemented didn't, so we now get almost oneshoted from stealth "F.U.N". I can't wait for the big pvp balance patch when thief and mesmer find their new borked and unfair builds,like they always do.

[hotte in space.2158]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

what are your suggestions for "nerfing stealth"?

I respect you for responding with facts and arguments in an objective manner^^And I agree with most of what you say. With the next patch big changes will take place. Everything gets leveld down. Reduced dmg, reduced healing, even weak traits/skills of weak classes will get nerfed from useless to absolutely useless. But what about something extrordinary powerful/nasty/unfunny like stealth? lol I cant find any big changes. Thats not suitable. A joke, made by some prankster developers :p

So how to nerf stealth (in my opinion) :

In league of legends they had the same problem. They solved it by splitting up stealth in two different kinds1) invisible, which is like stealth2) camouflage, which gets you revealed as soon as you come in range of opponents, and which gets you revealed when you are using skills

This would solve the problem, make PvP even more interesting and I think all you thief-players out there could like that too :)

[UNOwen.7132]

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

what are your suggestions for "nerfing stealth"?

I respect you for responding with facts and arguments in an objective manner^^And I agree with most of what you say. With the next patch big changes will take place. Everything gets leveld down. Reduced dmg, reduced healing, even weak traits/skills of weak classes will get nerfed from useless to absolutely useless. But what about something extrordinary powerful/nasty/unfunny like stealth? lol I cant find any big changes. Thats not suitable. A joke, made by some prankster developers :p

So how to nerf stealth (in my opinion) :

In league of legends they had the same problem. They solved it by splitting up stealth in two different kinds1) invisible, which is like stealth2) camouflage, which gets you revealed as soon as you come in range of opponents, and which gets you revealed when you are using skills

This would solve the problem, make PvP even more interesting and I think all you thief-players out there could like that too :)

Yeah, except that doesnt solve any of the issues. Leagues split is specifically about the use-cases of these kinds of stealths. Camouflage for out of combat stealth (stuff like Rengars ult and Evelynns shroud), used for positioning and sneaking by people, and stealth for in-combat stealth, yknow to relocate in a pinch. Thing is, the only problems you could argue stealth has, is out of combat issues. In-combat, stealth is already worthless. So your split would make in-combat stealth, which is already trash, even worse, while leaving out of combat stealth untouched.

Also, while were on it. Yes, theyre nerfing a lot of things next patch, and they didnt nerf stealth. Because as I said, stealth is worthless in-combat. While all the changes made are specifically for in-combat purposes, like reducing damage and tankiness. Why bother nerfing something people dont use in-combat? You say stealth is "extraordinarily powerful", but it really isnt. Out of Combat its good, but not even unusually good (mobility often suffices), while in-combat its among the weakest mechanics available.

[anduriell.6280]

Stealth is the most abusive combat mechanic this game has to offer.

Stealth allows thiefs to stay totally invisible until their initiative is filled up or their are off the CDs, and it is not even their core mechanic (steal and shadowsteps is). There is no point to increase the initiative costs if they can teleport and go invisible long enough to recharge the initiative.

As i commented once:

• Deadeye needs the downside to swap all stealth access to camouflage. That spec is a clear powercreep over thief and needs a downside.

• Stealth in general should make you visible to enemies in a range of 450 radius, 250 with some sort of trait in a defensive traitline.

• Mesmer on the other side should have access to invisibility, and should work the other way around: the mesmer is not visible to foes within a 450 radius, 900 when treated in some defensive traitline.

This could be only applied to PvP modes and it would benefit greatly the comps in WvW as now thieves smokefields would be needed to strealth the squad. And Mesmers to guarantee the invisibility when the squads are close enough to each other.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"anduriell.6280" said:Stealth is the most abusive combat mechanic this game has to offer.

Stealth allows thiefs to stay totally invisible until their initiative is filled up or their are off the CDs, and it is not even their core mechanic (steal and shadowsteps is). There is no point to increase the initiative costs if they can teleport and go invisible long enough to recharge the initiative.

As i commented once:

• Deadeye needs the downside to swap all stealth access to camouflage. That spec is a clear powercreep over thief and needs a downside.

• Stealth in general should make you visible to enemies in a range of 450 radius, 250 with some sort of trait in a defensive traitline.

• Mesmer on the other side should have access to invisibility, and should work the other way around: the mesmer is not visible to foes within a 450 radius, 900 when treated in some defensive traitline.

This could be only applied to PvP modes and it would benefit greatly the comps in WvW as now thieves smokefields would be needed to strealth the squad. And Mesmers to guarantee the invisibility when the squads are close enough to each other.

You ... you do know going into stealth takes up a lot more initiative than you get while staying in stealth, right? Lets say the thief goes Black Powder -> Heartseeker x3. That is 15 initiative spent. In exchange, the thief gets a total of 9 seconds of stealth, regenerating ... 5 Initiative. Thats right, the thief regenerates a third of the initiative he burned during that time. And keep in mind, this is the best case scenario. The thief wont be able to just sit there spamming heartseekers in black powder in stealth. Instead, they will likely only get Black Powder + Heartseeker. Thats 9 initiative for 3 seconds of stealth. Which regenerates just under 2 initiative for the thief. I dont know what game youre playing where thieves can just go in stealth and regenerate initiative, but GW2 its not.

"That spec [Deadeye] is a clear powercreep over thief and needs a downside.". Yeah its such clear powercreep, its the only thief spec to have never seen any competitive relevance. Wait what? Yeah in truth Deadeye is already garbage, and has been garbage the entire time. Its one of the elite specs that is just a downgrade compared to regular thief specs, to the point that its only use is for frustrating (but bad) permastealth oneshot builds. Builds that will soon cease functioning anyway.

[Yasai.3549]

@Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

dont nerf stealth implement more reveal mechanics to skills. That is more fun in general, rewards people that can anticipate a thiefs attacks, punishes bad thiefs and rewards good thiefs.

Yep.

They really should give every class some way to reveal targets.

Hell it could be as janky as throwing a random AoE into the dark but at least SOMETHING.

Deadeye is also an issue, with their Reveal removal.

They should really down the charges to just 1 in PvP/WvW.

[anduriell.6280]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

dont nerf stealth implement more reveal mechanics to skills. That is more fun in general, rewards people that can anticipate a thiefs attacks, punishes bad thiefs and rewards good thiefs.

Yep.

They really should give every class some way to reveal targets.

Hell it could be as janky as throwing a random AoE into the dark but at least SOMETHING.

Deadeye is also an issue, with their Reveal removal.

They should really down the charges to just 1 in PvP/WvW.

I would agree with you unfortunately I think we already are in the spinning wheel of mechanic / counter-mechanic.

Stealth -> revealed -> removed revealed (that's why DE is even more abusive and used) -> marked (reapply revealed if it's removed).

It needs an actual fix, more reveal will do nothing but Anet eventually input more stealth uptime and remove-revealed mechanics. We have lived this with the power creep related to one-shot builds and we already know where this takes us.

[Yasai.3549]

@"anduriell.6280" said:

It needs an actual fix, more reveal will do nothing but Anet eventually input more stealth uptime and remove-revealed mechanics. We have lived this with the power creep related to one-shot builds and we already know where this takes us.

IMO all they need is to put more Reveal mechanics which are similar to Magebane and Spear.

SB and DH are very good for countering stealth hard because of their ability to stick a Reveal pulsing tether on their target, which pretty much shuts down a Stealth relient player hard.

It won't hurt good players who can play it safe till the effect wears off, but it will definitely help to crackdown on those players who permastealth for 1shots and then scooting away. (though it may be less likely to happen once the power scaling of all skills are heavily dropped)

Primary candidates for more Reveal skills may be :

1. Mesmer
2. Necro

Why Mesmer? Well Mesmer has been on the receiving end of Thief backstabs forever, more so than any other class.It would be cool if they had a Inspiration trait which allows them to "detect" players they evade. Something like a "sixth sense" sort of skill, and placing it in Inspiration will allow support type Mesmers to help in detecting Stealthed targets if they manage to evade them that is.

Skilled players are able to dodge backstabs pretty consistently, so I think it would be kind of useful in that aspect.

Now why Necro?

This is probably get me killed but :

Corrupting Stealth turns it into Revealed

Okay bye bye, I'm gonna go pack my bags now before people are sent to kill me.

[GoQ.1048]

nec has reveal

[saerni.2584]

DE has more incidental stealth but for chaining abilities to get longer term stealth any thief has access to that.

Anet isn’t going to remove stealth from the game. A competitive split can’t change base mechanics anyway so you won’t see a split implemented in PvP that fundamentally alters the stealth mechanic.

[hotte in space.2158]

More arguments why stealth succks1) We will never ever see again a team, opening a mAT final wihout stealth. 4(!) thiefs in last EU mAT final. How boring!2) Being killed out of stealth doesnt bring fun down to 0, it brings fun down to -103) Thief burst gets nerfed with next patch. This means that spiking other players takes them now 1,5 sec instead of 1 sec. GREAT^^4) I have downed an opponent and watch him dieing while decapping his node, but omg noooo he gets rezzed by a stealth thief (funfactor -15)5) Anything worse than a stealth thief? Yes, two of them! Even when winning such a match, its not fun

Anyway how stealth can get nerfed but it has to get nerfed! All we non-thief-players want to fight in PvP instead of "guess where the thief is"But if you want Sindrener to be on top for the next 10 years, then leave everything like it is

PS: theres too much mobility in PvP as well. A character just having perma swiftness without any long-range jumps or superspeed is a lame duck