Ranger Balance Suggestions

[shadowpass.4236]

Thoughts/Opinions/Reasoning/Preface:

! 1. Ranger is a class that has consistently performed better at lower ratings than higher ones. When players know what they’re doing, this class has a harder time fighting against meta builds competing in the same role. As seen in the MATs, where the most effective builds are usually the ones being played, ranger has always been a rare sight. However, the skill ceiling and the skill floor have both been getting lower and lower for Ranger every patch. In other words, less-skilled players have an easier time at being effective on it and it has hurt the top end. This is literally the opposite of what should've happened.! 2. The most recent soulbeast pet loss has forced the spec almost entirely into gimmick oneshot builds in order to do anything in this tank meta. As a result, low-rated players who can’t react properly or fast enough end up having an even bigger issue against the now-higher-damage/burst builds. Meanwhile, higher-rated players, generally, still don’t have much of an issue avoiding the bursts.! 3. Soulbeast lost so much versatility and utility from the tradeoff in the most recent balance patch. It pales in comparison at side noding compared to core ranger, and the only way to somehow make-up for the loss of said versatility and utility is to just run full zerk glass cannon. Of course, then people complain about the damage, so it's probably going to get gutted in the next patch. And, all of a sudden, it will be even worse against good players.! 4. GS auto evade was literally the only reason we were able to stand on node vs. the meta side noders. After it got removed, we were (and still are) flat out unable to hold a cap for more than a few seconds. Using the auto evade trick is also a severe DPS loss so good rangers mostly saved it for when we wanted to avoid a CC after our own CC on the enemy ran out. It might seem simple, but the timing required to use Power Stab to avoid key skills took a lot of practice as you can see in this

- I only used the auto evade to avoid the Worldly Impact at 40 seconds in. Spamming autos is a very good way to get interrupted or trigger block skills like Counterattack, Illusionary Counter, Full Counter, etc. etc. So again, it might seem like it's super good value to hold W and spam GS autos, but in reality, it doesn't work like that. And doing the evade trick was only good in certain situations. Using it over and over again would be a great way to never kill someone.! 5. TLDR: In my opinion, to balance classes across ratings, Anet needs to stop making them simpler and easier to play whilst simultaneously lowering the skill ceiling. Removing skillful, non-gamebreaking tricks, mechanics, and options that allow for more choices and decision making just dumbs down the game. Skilled play should be rewarded and techniques that require setups, have drawbacks, but when used properly, can demonstrate a skill gap, are good things.

Suggestions:

! 1. Lower the damage on Gazelle's Charge to 1.4k instead of 2k base.! 2. Lower the % damage modifiers on GS Maul’s Attack of Opportunity to match Remorseless’ Opening Strike at 25% (instead of 50%). Leave Moment of Clarity at 50% because it relies on landing an interrupt.! 3. Lower the block duration on GS4 to 1.5s and its cooldown back to 15s.! 4. Fix the double counterattack kick bug.! 5. Increase the cast time on Troll Unguent to 1s.! 6. Add GS auto evade back and remove the 15 endurance gain.! 7. Add Crippling Throw back.! 8. Add an option to toggle on and off player-control on all of the skills on our pets. When toggled on, F3-F6 become customizable:! - F1 becomes a flip skill that either calls the pet to follow and autoattack the target, and when pressed again, calls the pet back to the player.! - F2 remains the Beast Skill.! - F3 becomes the pet's 3rd skill.! - F4 becomes the pet's 4th skill.! - F5 becomes pet swap! - F6 becomes Beastmode merge for Soulbeast! 9. Increase We Heal as One’s base healing from 6520 health / 24s traited cooldown = 271 eHPS to 7,508 health / 24s traited cooldown = 312 eHPS to better compete with Troll Unguent’s 354 eHPS.

Results:

! 1. Gazelle Charge will no longer hit for 9.56k when it has been fully buffed. Instead, it will hit for 3.72k without proccing Moment of Clarity or 5.57k fully buffed.! 2. Block uptime goes from the current 3s block duration / 20s traited cooldown = 15% uptime to 1.5s block duration / 12s traited cooldown = 12.5% uptime.! 3. Double counterattack kick = 1.5s evade duration / 20s traited cooldown = 7.5% uptime.! Fixing the bug results in a single counterattack kick = .75s evade duration / 12s traited cooldown = 6.25% uptime.! 4. Troll Unguent becomes easier to interrupt.! 5. GS auto evades will remain a tactic utilized by more experienced rangers that trades node presence for damage loss.! 6. Crippling Throw will give rangers the option to cripple enemies at the cost of ending the block early, a hard CC, and an evade.! 7. The ability to choose to gain control of all of the skills on our pets will increase the skill ceiling for more experienced rangers.! 8. The nerf to boon durations have rendered boon-based builds on ranger a lot weaker. Currently, there is no reason to use We Heal as One over Troll Unguent after the most recent patch. WHaO heals for way less, the boonshare is relatively useless, and it has a longer cast time. By making the eHPS gap smaller, we’re trading the boonshare with our pet for extra condi clear and fury. As a result, WHaO will still be better in a power/burst meta while TU will remain better in a condi/bunker meta. At the moment, TU is better in both metas and it shouldn’t be like that.! For anyone that doesn't know, WHaO used to be 6520 healing / 16s traited cooldown = 407.5 eHPS. TU used to be 1062 hps * 8 second duration / 20s traited cooldown = 424.8 eHPS. However, Anet increased the cooldown on WHaO to nerf boon duration without increasing the healing to match. As a result, the eHPS from WHaO went down to 326, a significant decrease. I believe this was an oversight and fixing it will give people a reason to use WHaO again.

Overall Meta:

! 1. If a class got gutted by whatever changes Anet made: ie) Mirage… that just means they aren’t addressing the actual issues. Skillful gameplay should be rewarded. In other words, any mechanic that lets a player apply significant pressure while being unable to be hit, negate basic game mechanics, or have significantly impactful skills that have instant cast times should be looked at.! To use Mirage as an example, in my opinion:! - 2nd dodge should be given back.! - Tradeoff should be a 2 illusion maximum (gaining Ambush skills in exchange for weaker Shatters)! - Distortion should lock skill-use like other invulns.! - Mirage Cloak shouldn’t be usable while hard CC’d or immobilized like ALL other dodges in the game. There is no reason Mirage Cloak should be any different than other classes dodges in terms of their defensive potential. They already get the ability to attack or cast skills while dodging. That alone is incredibly strong as stability isn’t necessary to (almost) guarantee the casts of healing skills.! 2. Firebrands are way too bloated. Here is a thread with tradeoff suggestions for every class including Firebrand.! 3. Necros are too hard to kill after the significant damage reductions.! 4. Rez speed is too fast after the significant damage reductions.! 5. Rallying is, in my opinion, a very unfun, game-changing mechanic that should either be removed or act as a 1 for 1 rally (which would still be game-changing in many scenarios).! 6. Going down twice within a short interval of time (1 minute) should result in an instant death.! 7. Mallyx Revenant’s resistance uptime should get looked at and reduced.! 8. Boon strips/corrupts should strip Aegis first as opposed to being unblockable.! 9. Disclaimer: And yes, I am asking for nerfs and buffs after a patch that gutted damage. There are some classes in need of the former, some in need of the latter, and some in need of both. I’m NOT saying ranger is the only example of this.

[Shao.7236]

I would honestly not touch anything until Firebrand ease of use is nerfed and Necromancer Life Force is adjusted to the patch, I'd say the same for all pet co-efficient or anything that dodged a nerf like CtA or Lich Form.

I know that I speak majorly for Mallyx, but if we touch Resistance uptime at all, it'll call for a redesign of the PA to not be teamwork oriented because otherwise it'll kill the legend purpose altogether. At best solo, 8 seconds of Resistance is what Herald can achieve back to back while Core sits at 13 seconds. Sounds like a lot but Core has no i-frames, by design changing Mallyx main function will most likely kill viability of it's role entirely to weaponize conditions, PP was already nerfed and telegraphed, SR also nerfed, CtA is the only thing that was bloated and needs to share PT costs which will tone it down quite a bit the current damage, EtD is in a fine spot at it's similar burst cost for Power equivalent sitting at around 10k damage over 6 seconds if moving, all that's left is True Nature of Mallyx of the Shiro treatment.

[storm.3120]

Tldr :Buff my class to insanity! But to not look so biased as I am I ask to nerf gazelle a bit. :joy:Return my beloved exploit with free evasion so I can just spam autos with quickness for stupid amount of evasion and doing damage in the same time, ez.Buff my heal ! Its alrdy amazing but I want more ! (Everyone see why you want it, free swiftness/regen without need to get it from other sources without losing it to TU that dont have additional effects and only better at overall healing rather than burst heal)Buff my greatsword that alrdy has everything in the world that you can dream of and instead of buffs it need more nerfs on maul spammability/pet bonus damage to ~25%. Changing block to 1.5s on 15(12)s cd is insane buff, not a nerf. What are you mumbling about there? Why they should buff alrdy busted blocking skill even further and give it crippling throw on top? SMH...We need leondirex to make something similar about mirage and ask for 3 evades and buff condi mirage to its original state to rival this.As @Shao.7236 said they should sent to hell this trio and fix stupid damage co-efficient on pets and see what is OP there. Definitly ranger will be in the list for nerfs with remoreless and MoC ;)

[hotte in space.2158]

@shadowpass.4236 said:As seen in the MATs, where the most effective builds are usually the ones being played, ranger has always been a rare sightIn february mAT there was a ranger in the winning teamAdd an option to toggle on and off player-control on all of the skills on our pets. When toggled on, F3-F6 become customizableI´d like this one

Dont want to go into more details because we still dont know how other classes will get nerfed/buffed.Good structured thread !

[shadowpass.4236]

@Odik.4587 said:Tldr :

1. Buff my class to insanity! But to not look so biased as I am I ask to nerf gazelle a bit. :joy:
2. Return my beloved exploit with free evasion so I can just spam autos with quickness for stupid amount of evasion and doing damage in the same time, ez.
3. Buff my heal ! Its alrdy amazing but I want more ! (Everyone see why you want it, free swiftness/regen without need to get it from other sources without losing it to TU that dont have additional effects and only better at overall healing rather than burst heal)
4. Buff my greatsword that alrdy has everything in the world that you can dream of and instead of buffs it need more nerfs on maul spammability/pet bonus damage to ~25%. Changing block to 1.5s on 15(12)s cd is insane buff, not a nerf. What are you mumbling about there? Why they should buff alrdy busted blocking skill even further and give it crippling throw on top? SMH...
5. We need leondirex to make something similar about mirage and ask for 3 evades and buff condi mirage to its original state to rival this.
6. As @"Shao.7236" said they should sent to hell this trio and fix stupid damage co-efficient on pets and see what is OP there. Definitly ranger will be in the list for nerfs with remoreless and MoC ;)

1. Going from nearly 10k to 4k on buffed Gazelle's Charge is more than "a bit." That's a 60% damage nerf to the hardest hitting ability in the pet's kit.
2. Ranger loses node to everything. There is no staying power on greatsword outside of GS4 on a 20 second cooldown. Other classes like Scepter Mirage or Warrior GS have skills (Illusionary Counter and Whirlwind) that are both offensive and defensive skills on cooldowns that almost match the weapon swap timer. Furthermore, Power Stab also has a cast time that is 33% longer than other 3rd auto chain skills on Greatsword for other classes. Our DPS suffered in exchange for some survivability, but now it is just worse in every regard.
3. Ranger can maintain swiftness pretty easily without the shout heal. We really don't have to sacrifice much, and if anything, we can just take movement speed runes.
4. I've never seen greatsword ranger dominating the competitive meta so it must not be as strong as you're making it to seem. If anything, it has been consistently been beaten out by bunker axe builds. :) and mathematically, it's a nerf. Maybe you should use a calculator to see for yourself or learn how to multiply.
5. Okay Mr. Biased Mirage main, how does it feel to have one dodge. :joy:
6. No we can just leave Mirage there. Must suck to only have one dodge xD

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:As seen in the MATs, where the most effective builds are usually the ones being played, ranger has always been a rare sightIn february mAT there was a ranger in the winning teamAdd an option to toggle on and off player-control on all of the skills on our pets. When toggled on, F3-F6 become customizableI´d like this one

Dont want to go into more details because we still dont know how other classes will get nerfed/buffed.Good structured thread !

Ranger was working right at the beginning of the patch because players did not expect it to still have damage with one wolf pack.

Guarantee you that you won't be seeing Rangers on any winning teams now that the meta is solidifying and people are acclimating to it.

In all seriousness, we won't be seeing much other than: FB, Core Necro, Malyx.

[storm.3120]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Tldr :

1. Buff my class to insanity! But to not look so biased as I am I ask to nerf gazelle a bit. :joy:
2. Return my beloved exploit with free evasion so I can just spam autos with quickness for stupid amount of evasion and doing damage in the same time, ez.
3. Buff my heal ! Its alrdy amazing but I want more ! (Everyone see why you want it, free swiftness/regen without need to get it from other sources without losing it to TU that dont have additional effects and only better at overall healing rather than burst heal)
4. Buff my greatsword that alrdy has everything in the world that you can dream of and instead of buffs it need more nerfs on maul spammability/pet bonus damage to ~25%. Changing block to 1.5s on 15(12)s cd is insane buff, not a nerf. What are you mumbling about there? Why they should buff alrdy busted blocking skill even further and give it crippling throw on top? SMH...
5. We need leondirex to make something similar about mirage and ask for 3 evades and buff condi mirage to its original state to rival this.
6. As @"Shao.7236" said they should sent to hell this trio and fix stupid damage co-efficient on pets and see what is OP there. Definitly ranger will be in the list for nerfs with remoreless and MoC ;)

1. Going from nearly 10k to 4k on buffed Gazelle's Charge is more than "a bit." That's a 60% damage nerf to the hardest hitting ability in the pet's kit.Why should it even hit that hard to begin with ? 4k is alrdy a lot after damage reduction went through all classes. 10k is just absurd and unbelievable high numbers that only ranger and DE with stacked malice on DJ (full zerk crit strikes lmao) can achieve.
2. Ranger loses node to everything. There is no staying power on greatsword outside of GS4 on a 20 second cooldown. Other classes like Scepter Mirage or Warrior GS have skills (Illusionary Counter and Whirlwind) that are both offensive
   and
   defensive skills on cooldowns that almost match the weapon swap timer
   . Furthermore, Power Stab also has a cast time that is 33% longer than other 3rd auto chain skills on Greatsword for other classes. Our DPS suffered in exchange for some survivability, but now it is just worse in every regard.Lets talk about "staying power" of guardian with no evades attacked to it? Necromancer no evades GS ? Mesmer GS which has only low damaging skills and pathetic 25s cd knockback? Use GS3 if you want evade like gs3 does ;)I see clearly your intention there to use it every time you go on GS but all channeled blocks have long cooldowns and on top of not just having less cooldown than other channeled blocks it has additional skill inbuit there, and you ask for more? Heh
3. Ranger can maintain swiftness pretty easily without the shout heal. We really don't have to sacrifice much, and if anything, we can just take movement speed runes.Then you have even less reason to ask for a buff on ranger heal. TU have an edge over burst heal because its over time and has no additional effects which is completely fair.Look at other classes HPS and tell me that ranger struggle with healing skills :joy:
4. I've never seen greatsword ranger dominating the competitive meta so it must not be as strong as you're making it to seem. If anything, it has been consistently been beaten out by bunker axe builds. :) and mathematically, it's a nerf. Maybe you should use a calculator to see for yourself or learn how to multiply.More often acess = better than overall 3s which is excessive in the most cases. To avoid infractions lets rephrase it "intentionally being silly" and still insist thats a nerf... oh my ... "Look its a nerf, on paper...!". We alrdy had this little discussion that you abandoned, look it up, its still there with your dead arguments left behind "not used = balanced". All weapons seen insane nerfs like guardian GS/hammer despite them not dominating jack sht there. Simple fact - every class would dream to have acess to kit of that weapon but no one comes close to have it all at once.
5. Okay Mr. Biased Mirage main, how does it feel to have one dodge. :joy:
6. No we can just leave Mirage there. Must suck to only have one dodge xDUnlike you I'm not creating thread to buff my class to insanity and pretend to sell it as a nerf. My bias isnt overflowing like yours, should be like you and cry how dead weapon after exploit was fixed and make a drama out of it when weapon is still insane good. And beg to nerf every class into the ground because some other really good veteran player kills me and you struggle to admit to being outplayed, no one can outplay the great me ! Must be playing OP class !P.S - Still can kill bad players as its always used to be. ;)Good luck with getting this buffs in.

[Yasai.3549]

@Shao.7236 said:

I know that I speak majorly for Mallyx, but if we touch Resistance uptime at all, it'll call for a redesign of the PA to not be teamwork oriented because otherwise it'll kill the legend purpose altogether. At best solo, 8 seconds of Resistance is what Herald can achieve back to back while Core sits at 13 seconds. Sounds like a lot but Core has no i-frames, by design changing Mallyx main function will most likely kill viability of it's role entirely to weaponize conditions, PP was already nerfed and telegraphed, SR also nerfed, CtA is the only thing that was bloated and needs to share PT costs which will tone it down quite a bit the current damage, EtD is in a fine spot at it's similar burst cost for Power equivalent sitting at around 10k damage over 6 seconds if moving, all that's left is True Nature of Mallyx of the Shiro treatment.

Not sure if CtA needs to share PT cost but I know for a fact its reach feels abit too wide.

360 radius is very very generous imo.I mean look at Warrior's Stomp, which is similar to CtA except it launches people : It is 450 range and 240 radius.

CtA has way further jump distance and a very large draw in.Can literally land 4 Asuras away from someone and still draw them in.

[hotte in space.2158]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Guarantee you that you won't be seeing Rangers on any winning teams now that the meta is solidifying and people are acclimating to it.Guarantee you that balancing starts on 17th march and will go on the whole year. We dont even have a solidifying meta yet.In all seriousness, we won't be seeing much other than: FB, Core Necro, Malyx.These classes will be the first ones to be nerfed.

No reason to worry Trevor^^ Ranger never was best in anything but always was good in everything !And I think when there is a solidifying meta, like in half a year, ranger still will be the best allrounder.Btw I dont main ranger but I enjoy to play it sometimes, and if ranger should really be in trouble in the future, I will defend it (promised :) )

[shadowpass.4236]

@Odik.4587 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Tldr :

1. Buff my class to insanity! But to not look so biased as I am I ask to nerf gazelle a bit. :joy:
2. Return my beloved exploit with free evasion so I can just spam autos with quickness for stupid amount of evasion and doing damage in the same time, ez.
3. Buff my heal ! Its alrdy amazing but I want more ! (Everyone see why you want it, free swiftness/regen without need to get it from other sources without losing it to TU that dont have additional effects and only better at overall healing rather than burst heal)
4. Buff my greatsword that alrdy has everything in the world that you can dream of and instead of buffs it need more nerfs on maul spammability/pet bonus damage to ~25%. Changing block to 1.5s on 15(12)s cd is insane buff, not a nerf. What are you mumbling about there? Why they should buff alrdy busted blocking skill even further and give it crippling throw on top? SMH...
5. We need leondirex to make something similar about mirage and ask for 3 evades and buff condi mirage to its original state to rival this.
6. As @"Shao.7236" said they should sent to hell this trio and fix stupid damage co-efficient on pets and see what is OP there. Definitly ranger will be in the list for nerfs with remoreless and MoC ;)

1. Going from nearly 10k to 4k on buffed Gazelle's Charge is more than "a bit." That's a 60% damage nerf to the hardest hitting ability in the pet's kit.Why should it even hit that hard to begin with ? 4k is alrdy a lot after damage reduction went through all classes. 10k is just absurd and unbelievable high numbers that only ranger and DE with stacked malice on DJ (full zerk crit strikes lmao) can achieve.
2. Ranger loses node to everything. There is no staying power on greatsword outside of GS4 on a 20 second cooldown. Other classes like Scepter Mirage or Warrior GS have skills (Illusionary Counter and Whirlwind) that are both offensive
   and
   defensive skills on cooldowns that almost match the weapon swap timer
   . Furthermore, Power Stab also has a cast time that is 33% longer than other 3rd auto chain skills on Greatsword for other classes. Our DPS suffered in exchange for some survivability, but now it is just worse in every regard.Lets talk about "staying power" of guardian with no evades attacked to it? Necromancer no evades GS ? Mesmer GS which has only low damaging skills and pathetic 25s cd knockback? Use GS3 if you want evade like gs3 does ;)I see clearly your intention there to use it every time you go on GS but all channeled blocks have long cooldowns and on top of not just having less cooldown than other channeled blocks it has additional skill inbuit there, and you ask for more? Heh
3. Ranger can maintain swiftness pretty easily without the shout heal. We really don't have to sacrifice much, and if anything, we can just take movement speed runes.Then you have even less reason to ask for a buff on ranger heal. TU have an edge over burst heal because its over time and has no additional effects which is completely fair.Look at other classes HPS and tell me that ranger struggle with healing skills :joy:
4. I've never seen greatsword ranger dominating the competitive meta so it must not be as strong as you're making it to seem. If anything, it has been consistently been beaten out by bunker axe builds. :) and mathematically, it's a nerf. Maybe you should use a calculator to see for yourself or learn how to multiply.More often acess = better than overall 3s which is excessive in the most cases. To avoid infractions lets rephrase it "intentionally being silly" and still insist thats a nerf... oh my ... "Look its a nerf, on paper...!". We alrdy had this little discussion that you abandoned, look it up, its still there with your dead arguments left behind "not used = balanced". All weapons seen insane nerfs like guardian GS/hammer despite them not dominating jack kitten there. Simple fact - every class would dream to have acess to kit of that weapon but no one comes close to have it all at once.
5. Okay Mr. Biased Mirage main, how does it feel to have one dodge. :joy:
6. No we can just leave Mirage there. Must suck to only have one dodge xDUnlike you I'm not creating thread to buff my class to insanity and pretend to sell it as a nerf. My bias isnt overflowing like yours, should be like you and cry how dead weapon after exploit was fixed and make a drama out of it when weapon is still insane good. And beg to nerf every class into the ground because some other really good veteran player kills me and you struggle to admit to being outplayed, no one can outplay the great me ! Must be playing OP class !P.S - Still can kill bad players as its always used to be. ;)Good luck with getting this buffs in.

1. Phantasmal Berserkers can take more than half the health off of a target and the window to dodge is smaller than Charge by a significant margin. They deal way more damage than a buffed Charge would after my nerf suggestions. So, let's reduce Phantasmal Berserkers so they only hit for 2.5k when they land and we can tune down Gazelle's damage to the same amount. Ya know, just to be fair. :)
2. Firebrand, Necro, and Mirage all have/had more node presence than Ranger. They were/are all meta classes in Conquest (node based gamemode) except for ranger for a reason.
3. The point is, after the nerfs to boon uptimes, there is no reason to take WHaO over TU.
4. Nope, sorry. That's not how math works buddy. You could have a 30 second block every minute on a 60 second cooldown for an uptime of 50% or a 1 second block on a cooldown of 2 seconds. Both have uptimes of 50% and are equally effective. The only difference is, one of them reduces the game's APM which is bad.
5. All of my suggestions asides from the heal buff are either nerfs or give additional options with how we can use our skills tied to tradeoffs. You have no idea what you're talking about if you think these changes would "buff my class to insanity." It's funny how you talk about bias when you pop up in every single mesmer thread to defend your class and trash all other classes when they do the same. :joy:

[Chaith.8256]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

4. Nope, sorry. That's not how math works buddy. You could have a 30 second block every minute on a 60 second cooldown for an uptime of 50% or a 1 second block on a cooldown of 2 seconds. Both have uptimes of 50% and are equally effective. The only difference is, one of them reduces the game's APM which is bad.

Ah yes, the familiar l2 math argument to ignore a valid point. Let's just use your example of a 30s block, 60s cd, and a 1s block with a 2s cd.

• Factor in unblockable CC that counters long blocks more.
• Factor in that most of the value of a block is frontloaded into the first second surprise factor which is your only chance you block key abilities, as no competent enemy will use a big skill into a 30 second block animation.

It's amazing you can rationalize a 1.5s block on 12s cd being a nerf over a 3s Block on a 20s cd because it's a nerf in uptime.

You obviously know all this, you just think you can fool people, then convince them they're dumb. :joy:

[storm.3120]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

4. Nope, sorry. That's not how math works buddy. You could have a 30 second block every minute on a 60 second cooldown for an uptime of 50% or a 1 second block on a cooldown of 2 seconds. Both have uptimes of 50% and are equally effective. The only difference is, one of them reduces the game's APM which is bad.

Ah yes, the familiar l2 math argument to ignore a valid point. Let's just use your example of a 30s block, 60s cd, and a 1s block with a 2s cd.

• Factor in unblockable CC that counters long blocks more.
• Factor in that most of the value of a block is frontloaded into the first second surprise factor which is your only chance you block key abilities, as no competent enemy will use a big skill into a 30 second block animation.

It's amazing you can rationalize a 1.5s block on 12s cd being a nerf over a 3s Block on a 20s cd because it's a nerf in uptime.

You obviously know all this, you just think you can fool people, then convince them they're dumb. :joy:The only one who he is managed to fool is himself since he strongly believe in this

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

4. Nope, sorry. That's not how math works buddy. You could have a 30 second block every minute on a 60 second cooldown for an uptime of 50% or a 1 second block on a cooldown of 2 seconds. Both have uptimes of 50% and are equally effective. The only difference is, one of them reduces the game's APM which is bad.

Ah yes, the familiar l2 math argument to ignore a valid point. Let's just use your example of a 30s block, 60s cd, and a 1s block with a 2s cd.

• Factor in unblockable CC that counters long blocks more.
• Factor in that most of the value of a block is frontloaded into the first second surprise factor which is your only chance you block key abilities, as no competent enemy will use a big skill into a 30 second block animation.

It's amazing you can rationalize a 1.5s block on 12s cd being a nerf over a 3s Block on a 20s cd because it's a nerf in uptime.

You obviously know all this, you just think you can fool people, then convince them they're dumb. :joy:

You really don't realize where the true value of a long block uptime is, do you? You're essentially gaining (assuming no unblockables) 3 seconds of free recharge time on your other skills, plus can cheat out a quickness'd counterattack in a good window.

[Chaith.8256]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

4. Nope, sorry. That's not how math works buddy. You could have a 30 second block every minute on a 60 second cooldown for an uptime of 50% or a 1 second block on a cooldown of 2 seconds. Both have uptimes of 50% and are equally effective. The only difference is, one of them reduces the game's APM which is bad.

Ah yes, the familiar l2 math argument to ignore a valid point. Let's just use your example of a 30s block, 60s cd, and a 1s block with a 2s cd.

• Factor in unblockable CC that counters long blocks more.
• Factor in that most of the value of a block is frontloaded into the first second surprise factor which is your only chance you block key abilities, as no competent enemy will use a big skill into a 30 second block animation.

It's amazing you can rationalize a 1.5s block on 12s cd being a nerf over a 3s Block on a 20s cd because it's a nerf in uptime.

You obviously know all this, you just think you can fool people, then convince them they're dumb. :joy:

You really don't realize where the true value of a long block uptime is, do you? You're essentially gaining (assuming no unblockables) 3 seconds of free recharge time on your other skills, plus can cheat out a quickness'd counterattack in a good window.

That's true, I hear you, if you're up against a limited time boon 1v1, a long block is better. However, the person with the limited time power up can just switch to another target a lot of the time. The benefits of more small blocks still far out weighs few longblocks.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

tldr;buff ranger massively

[shadowpass.4236]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

4. Nope, sorry. That's not how math works buddy. You could have a 30 second block every minute on a 60 second cooldown for an uptime of 50% or a 1 second block on a cooldown of 2 seconds. Both have uptimes of 50% and are equally effective. The only difference is, one of them reduces the game's APM which is bad.

Ah yes, the familiar l2 math argument to ignore a valid point. Let's just use your example of a 30s block, 60s cd, and a 1s block with a 2s cd.

• Factor in unblockable CC that counters long blocks more.
• Factor in that most of the value of a block is frontloaded into the first second surprise factor which is your only chance you block key abilities, as no competent enemy will use a big skill into a 30 second block animation.

It's amazing you can rationalize a 1.5s block on 12s cd being a nerf over a 3s Block on a 20s cd because it's a nerf in uptime.

You obviously know all this, you just think you can fool people, then convince them they're dumb. :joy:

Halve the block duration and reduce the cooldown by 40% and you get an effectiveness decrease no matter how you look at it.

If you're calculating efficiency, you wouldn't go through all of the trouble of doing the math only to go, "Hah! Well those numbers don't matter anyways!"

There's an ability on swords in Albion online that functions almost identically to full counter on warriors. It negates and reflects the damage of whatever attack hits it in a 1s window. Yet it's a high skill cap weapon because not only is it easy to waste, but you have to make sure you pick a skill you either want to reflect or want to negate. Longer blocks or invulns simply require less thought to use. Longer durations also make it easier to proc their secondary effects.

The same thing applies for cars as well. Would you rather buy a car that can drive for 30 minutes and have to refill it once every hour or a car that can drive 1 minute at a time that you have to refill every 2 minutes? Lol

It's amazing when people go "oh yeah the block is still super strong now it wasn't even that big of a nerf." Then go "haha yeah reverting the nerf at reduced effectiveness but would be a huge buff." Like nice job contradicting yourself.

Comparing soldier boots in albion to a fast sprint boot and you get the same outcome. More effectiveness will always win out in the long term.

[Axl.8924]

@Odik.4587 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Tldr :

1. Buff my class to insanity! But to not look so biased as I am I ask to nerf gazelle a bit. :joy:
2. Return my beloved exploit with free evasion so I can just spam autos with quickness for stupid amount of evasion and doing damage in the same time, ez.
3. Buff my heal ! Its alrdy amazing but I want more ! (Everyone see why you want it, free swiftness/regen without need to get it from other sources without losing it to TU that dont have additional effects and only better at overall healing rather than burst heal)
4. Buff my greatsword that alrdy has everything in the world that you can dream of and instead of buffs it need more nerfs on maul spammability/pet bonus damage to ~25%. Changing block to 1.5s on 15(12)s cd is insane buff, not a nerf. What are you mumbling about there? Why they should buff alrdy busted blocking skill even further and give it crippling throw on top? SMH...
5. We need leondirex to make something similar about mirage and ask for 3 evades and buff condi mirage to its original state to rival this.
6. As @"Shao.7236" said they should sent to hell this trio and fix stupid damage co-efficient on pets and see what is OP there. Definitly ranger will be in the list for nerfs with remoreless and MoC ;)

1. Going from nearly 10k to 4k on buffed Gazelle's Charge is more than "a bit." That's a 60% damage nerf to the hardest hitting ability in the pet's kit.Why should it even hit that hard to begin with ? 4k is alrdy a lot after damage reduction went through all classes. 10k is just absurd and unbelievable high numbers that only ranger and DE with stacked malice on DJ (full zerk crit strikes lmao) can achieve.
2. Ranger loses node to everything. There is no staying power on greatsword outside of GS4 on a 20 second cooldown. Other classes like Scepter Mirage or Warrior GS have skills (Illusionary Counter and Whirlwind) that are both offensive
   and
   defensive skills on cooldowns that almost match the weapon swap timer
   . Furthermore, Power Stab also has a cast time that is 33% longer than other 3rd auto chain skills on Greatsword for other classes. Our DPS suffered in exchange for some survivability, but now it is just worse in every regard.Lets talk about "staying power" of guardian with no evades attacked to it? Necromancer no evades GS ? Mesmer GS which has only low damaging skills and pathetic 25s cd knockback? Use GS3 if you want evade like gs3 does ;)I see clearly your intention there to use it every time you go on GS but all channeled blocks have long cooldowns and on top of not just having less cooldown than other channeled blocks it has additional skill inbuit there, and you ask for more? Heh
3. Ranger can maintain swiftness pretty easily without the shout heal. We really don't have to sacrifice much, and if anything, we can just take movement speed runes.Then you have even less reason to ask for a buff on ranger heal. TU have an edge over burst heal because its over time and has no additional effects which is completely fair.Look at other classes HPS and tell me that ranger struggle with healing skills :joy:
4. I've never seen greatsword ranger dominating the competitive meta so it must not be as strong as you're making it to seem. If anything, it has been consistently been beaten out by bunker axe builds. :) and mathematically, it's a nerf. Maybe you should use a calculator to see for yourself or learn how to multiply.More often acess = better than overall 3s which is excessive in the most cases. To avoid infractions lets rephrase it "intentionally being silly" and still insist thats a nerf... oh my ... "Look its a nerf, on paper...!". We alrdy had this little discussion that you abandoned, look it up, its still there with your dead arguments left behind "not used = balanced". All weapons seen insane nerfs like guardian GS/hammer despite them not dominating jack kitten there. Simple fact - every class would dream to have acess to kit of that weapon but no one comes close to have it all at once.
5. Okay Mr. Biased Mirage main, how does it feel to have one dodge. :joy:
6. No we can just leave Mirage there. Must suck to only have one dodge xDUnlike you I'm not creating thread to buff my class to insanity and pretend to sell it as a nerf. My bias isnt overflowing like yours, should be like you and cry how dead weapon after exploit was fixed and make a drama out of it when weapon is still insane good. And beg to nerf every class into the ground because some other really good veteran player kills me and you struggle to admit to being outplayed, no one can outplay the great me ! Must be playing OP class !P.S - Still can kill bad players as its always used to be. ;)Good luck with getting this buffs in.

I think rangers personally i'm not the most experienced but damage is needed to be able to land a kill, to be able to deal with the incursion of necros firebrands holosmiths and revs.

[Dahkeus.8243]

This seems like a very complex way of saying "I want the old Greatsword skills back!"

Honestly, I don't miss the GS auto attack. The loss of crip throw sucks, but either way, there's plenty of other weapons on the class that aren't as slow and bursty as the greatsword. If the aim is to buff ranger in a way that doesn't favor simple burst builds, then it doesn't seem to make sense buffing greatsword at all. Just put the effort into 1h sword or other similar weapons.

We don't need to reinvent greatsword and longbow all over again.