The Importance of Guilds in Guild Wars 2

[Robotmoxie.4025]

It's pretty upsetting to think that guilds aren't getting much focus in a game featuring "guild" in the title, but that's been the case for a long time. A lot of really good points have already been made in this thread about how new content doesn't actually need to be created, the grand majority of the time- what's important is implementing the tools that orient a guild around that content. Races, map participation, raiding, bounties, meta events- it's all there, it just needs the added layer of bonus rewards for doing that content with your friends in your guild. It seems so obvious, looking from the outside in. If the game seems antisocial at times, guilds are in many ways a vehicle to make it more social, and to direct players toward content by socializing about that content.

I've always thought that guilds need more power to affect a single map- any single open-world map in the game- as a way of promoting their identity. This could be something like throwing a party in Divinity's Reach, where guild-themed balloons are hung up and activities and toys are made available to everyone in the map, not just guild members. Idlers at the bank, grateful for the change of pace and having something fun and new to do, might even say "hey, this guild seems really cool, maybe I'll ask to join and see what other content they do." And you could use the same idea on a hostile map- "this guild is leading a campaign on the Cursed Shore, join them to wade through Zhaitan's forces and slay one of his lieutenants!" and every step of the event chain that the guild succeeds, they plant their banner in Orr's soil- and just like you'd expect, anyone who interacts with those banners can get buffs. I could even imagine using the same system in a place like Queensdale, for a guild that wants to welcome new players and orient them to the game, while ultimately leading them to the Shadow Behemoth encounter so that they can get their first taste of world boss fights.

A lot of that can be done informally, but actually using the guild interface to do it would go a long way in making guilds seem like a legitimate force affecting the world, especially for players that aren't in guilds or don't understand what they'd gain from being in one.

When I heard that there wasn't a guild team, I was sad. I've been in the same two guilds for years, and they've been great for guidance. Whenever I needed help with challenging content, I knew I could ask someone more experienced in my guild. Someone's always down to run a few fractals or open up a mesmer portal. But when I hear that Arenanet's outlook for guilds is basically to keep them as they are- chat rooms and maps you can decorate, held up by a skeleton of events and rewards somewhere around half a decade old already, it's just disheartening. They could do more of the exact same thing- more guild bounties, more guild races, more guild mini-dungeons/jumping puzzles, and players invested in their guilds would love it.

It's hard to hear that not only are they not doing that, but that there's not anything new on the table either. Guilds as a function of community are just too important to be handled that way, if you ask me. They could do so much for the health of the game overall, with the right team producing and promoting content for them.

[synergy.5809]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Hesacon.8735 said:I think things like the PoF races or bounties are low hanging fruit for guild missions content.

@TexZero.7910 said:First the dungeons team, now the Guild Ops team ?

Interesting choices to cannibalize those departments. I too think it's mistake and hopefully there's enough backing in this sentiment. Guild Missions and other various content pieces like it could use some love.

They have a standing team for raids, fractals, living world, world vs. world, structured pvp, and expansions. They have to drop the ball somewhere and those 6 content types see most of the GW2 play time.

I mean... if i had my pick i'd delete the WvW team. That's not saying they aren't doing work just that it's one of those things that will never be in a good spot because the combat and game really aren't built to support it. That's why they have so many band-aid fixes applied to it just to get it to the semi-functional state its in currently.

wait didn't they already delete the WvW team a while ago?

[maxwelgm.4315]

@Blaeys.3102 said:In last week’s AMA, we learned that they no longer have a guild content team at Arenanet – and, even more importantly, that they have no plans to implement/improve/etc guild related content in the foreseeable future.

This is probably the most shortsighted decision ArenaNet has ever made. Guilds are the backbone of this game. Without them, I believe there would be no meaningful world vs world, there would be very little open world coordination/leadership efforts for things like meta events, early world boss successes, boss trains and much more.

Supporting guilds – and encouraging them to be active in the open world - is more important than it has ever been, in my opinion. Players are already expressing concern about the new maps becoming dead zones. The most logical way to stop that from happening is to incentivize guilds to organize and lead activities on those new maps (and older maps that may become dead as well).

As an obvious example (that has been discussed before), a simple overhaul to the guild mission system where PVE missions mirror how they work in PVP and WvW missions would go a long way. This could include things like:

• Do four bounties in Domain of Vabbi in less than 30 minutes. At least three guild members need to participate.
• Achieve level 4 in Dry Top with at least 3 members present
• Capture or defend a settlement in Lake Doric with three members present
• Accrue 20,000 cumulative experience points in Frostgorge
• Complete the Skimmer race in the desolation with at least three members present

And about 100 more examples come to mind. At that point, adding new guild missions becomes a natural part of new map and content development. It no longer even requires creating unique content in order to remain interesting.

And, of course, this isn’t just about guild missions. Anything they can do to encourage guilds to become more active across the large group game modes is obviously very good for the game.

Even for those that do not rely on their guild when enjoying the game, this is an important issue. Encouraging guild activity in maps creates that light to medium level of coordination needed to keep the zones alive for everyone there.

Finally, it’s worth noting that this issue exposes a key problem with how they have aligned teams and are moving forward with the game. Yes, focus is good, but not when it becomes so narrow that the mandates given become the only things your creative employees see. I believe the above would be a pretty simplistic fix for the issue – but even if it’s not, there could be something else that could be done. With no guild focused team – and no oversight or more general development focus from a high level – no one is paying enough attention to care or try and come up with one. In any creative endeavor (such as an MMO), that is very bad – and leads to neglected content.

Like many, my guild is the one thing that keeps me logging in day in and day out. I found it depressing to hear from the president of Anet that they have stopped supporting activities focused toward those groups – and I hope that they realize the error of that decision.

I gotta say, I don't really play with any of my guilds, for some reason. I am even part of one of the last 100% rep ones that want to display their tag around (and it's quite full, active and non-drama-ish, mind you). However, I must also mention I only ever join some metas if I see a tag up (I only really run Silverwastes with [TML] or some of the other farmers, only play TT with [TT], etc.). I also play WvW on DB with [grim] and [gods] nearly exclusively without even being part of any of them (I should look into a WvW guild though lol). Guilds can really breathe life into some otherwise dead zones and can really make things funnier because there's a tightly knit community involved, it's not just some strangers you met for your dailies. And in spite of not playing content with them, my guildies are super fun to talk with and they are what makes a lot of the content bearable even if they are nowhere near me.

I don't want to make it sound like some "family unit" discourse, but guilds are indeed the first step into socializing in-game to many of us, and denying that step might mean denying the whole walk in the end.

[Andred.1087]

What tf is going on at ANet that they have to keep shifting people around to all these different teams? Normally I'm pretty skeptical of any claims by outside observers regarding the company's financial situation, but it really doesn't look great when they have to keep disbanding teams after they finish what they're working on. Obviously they are under-staffed if they constantly need to break up teams working on core game features just to have enough people working on expansions and LS. That, or they're just intentionally taking this approach, and don't care what negative consequences it brings. Certainly it is a workable development model, but the problem that comes out of this is every new thing that is released feels disjoint from the last, and beyond that, any support for older content dries up as the people who originally developed it have all been moved to work on other things. I know ANet has been all about "iteration" when it comes to GW2, but sometimes you really need to go back and re-iterate old content, something they have done on a couple rare occasions.

[Hex.2579]

if you look at how small The Witcher 3 team is, and how big of a game and how many contents in game are, i wouldn't say Anet is understaffed. but since they keep switching people around and about. they have to stop on whatever they're working on and achieve nothing in that abandoned project(s).what they could do is transfer the pvp team over to guilds. cuz right now everyone loving pvp is moving over to wvw. pvp is not only broken, but the matchmaking is also the worst. it takes the fun and joy away from a lot of people. plus the condi meta is killing build diversity.

while the game itself names Guild Wars 2, there's really lacking on anything guild related. the new guild that they shipped with PoF lacks a theme music but the NPCs still wear clothes from the Maguuma Jungle. lol. i almost feel bad for all of them. look like they could use a bath and some decent clothes for the desert.and i agree. this decision to not focus on guild stuff is shortsighted. we all at least have a guild or two, or more. and we love to do things with them to get achievements together, or even better good stuff for our guild(s). i think a lot of people already wanted something about guilds. it's a matter of time before Anet does something about it.

[SpecterMAT.7306]

I am sad and shocked. I hope they will rethink this bad decision.

[CedarDog.9723]

Yeah, get rid of the PvP team and move them over to WvW and have the PvP team help fix the WvW problems. Besides, what's a little more salt from the often high-salt PvP players? :) Maybe move some of the PvP team to the guild team. Or just subcontract some coders to help with guild/dungeons/etc.

[squiggit.2357]

Are guilds really the backbone of this game though? I'd argue kind of the opposite. Between the way GW2 handles mob and event credit, commander tags and open world objectives it's arguably one of the best MMOs around to not ever bother with a guild. Obviously there's the social aspect that some people like and there are a few (unfortunately) guild exclusive rewards, but in terms of actually driving the game itself forward meaningfully, not really.

@Blaeys.3102 said: Like many, my guild is the one thing that keeps me logging in day in and day out

You can say that about yourself, but I know 'many' people too who are literally only in a guild for commendations or for claiming WvW objectives and probably wouldn't even bother if there were alternatives.

@Blaeys.3102 said: Without them, I believe there would be no meaningful world vs world, there would be very little open world coordination/leadership efforts for things like meta events, early world boss successes, boss trains and much more.

You say that too, but I can't actually recall the last time I said a meta event or train actually led by a guild. It's usually just someone tagging up with maybe a few friends and a whole bunch of randoms. There might be a guild or some guild members participating, but rarely would I call that an actual driving force behind the content.

[SkullsandRoses.5803]

Ive been in several guilds since launch 5 years ago and I can tell you that I have had more meaningful interactions with complete strangers in all maps and ill take map chat over guild chat any day!

My experience with guilds .....2 leaders and 3 officers party up every evening doing all the fractals, dungeons, and achievement/reward content leaving the rest of us to fend for ourselves when it comes to figuring out new content. They don't answer our questions and tell us to wiki everything yet they claim to be helpful and get pissy that they are left on their own to do guild missions every week because they have neglected the other 90% of their guild for the other 6 days.... literally this is my experience .... The most recent guild I was in was a little better at trying to interact with us grunts but LOL only because one of their usual party members (leader/officer) were busy and they still wanted to run their nightly content. Its crap .... I would love for someone to change my mind on this.

[Jong.5937]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Hesacon.8735 said:I think things like the PoF races or bounties are low hanging fruit for guild missions content.

@TexZero.7910 said:First the dungeons team, now the Guild Ops team ?

Interesting choices to cannibalize those departments. I too think it's mistake and hopefully there's enough backing in this sentiment. Guild Missions and other various content pieces like it could use some love.

They have a standing team for raids, fractals, living world, world vs. world, structured pvp, and expansions. They have to drop the ball somewhere and those 6 content types see most of the GW2 play time.

I mean... if i had my pick i'd delete the WvW team. That's not saying they aren't doing work just that it's one of those things that will never be in a good spot because the combat and game really aren't built to support it. That's why they have so many band-aid fixes applied to it just to get it to the semi-functional state its in currently.

I totally disagree with deleting the WvW team. If anything needs to be deleted it should be the raid team. There is already a fractal team. Fractal and raids are the same category: instanced pve content.

I mean you're free to think that, but in terms of which team is putting out quality content and the other is hobbling along worse than a zombie it's night and day. Both of the instanced PvE teams are actually putting out quality. Meanwhile in WvW land it's ports of working systems from other modes just to get people to play it....

I don't think this should be a thread to start dissing each other's game modes. We should stick to what we want, not 2nd guess the compromises Anet may, or may not need, to make to give it to us. I fully support the OP in wanting guild missions to support existing events on new maps and old. I think it's a superb idea, that I'm surprised has not really been done before and I agree supporting the guild community generally is very good for the health of the game.

But, on your off topic comments on WvW, whatever you personally think of it, far more people play it, many very committedly, than raid. And, as one of them, WvW is probably in the best place it has ever been, both in terms of systems and rewards, if not player numbers. There are still plenty of those, just maybe not enough for the original number of servers after 5 years of a relatively static game (nothing like HoT and PoF change anyway). The same would be true of PvE if we still had only Central Tyria. But, this is certainly a discussion for a different thread!

[Malediktus.9250]

@Brimstone.3807 said:I've been playing Gw2 for years, and have never felt a need to engage in guilds at all. I am just saying that there are lots of different folks with different habits. Arenanet obviously sees their internal metrics and develops to them. Just as a general thought, guild participation is down in a lot of MMOs in general. Habits are changing. I personally would not be impacted if guilds didn't exist. A friends list does the trick just fine.Metrics are terrible in a game like this where everyone is after rewards. Metrics get artifically scewed to the flavor of the month content. Most people will choose content x over y even if they find x more fun.

[Kas.3509]

For me GW2 is lacking content for small guilds, and lacking small guildhalls. I really do not wish to wander in empty huge guilhall with 7-10 guild members only.The same with home instanced. Why are they so huge?

[STIHL.2489]

@Blaeys.3102 said:In last week’s AMA, we learned that they no longer have a guild content team at Arenanet – and, even more importantly, that they have no plans to implement/improve/etc guild related content in the foreseeable future.

This is probably the most shortsighted decision ArenaNet has ever made. Guilds are the backbone of this game. Without them, I believe there would be no meaningful world vs world, there would be very little open world coordination/leadership efforts for things like meta events, early world boss successes, boss trains and much more.

Supporting guilds – and encouraging them to be active in the open world - is more important than it has ever been, in my opinion. Players are already expressing concern about the new maps becoming dead zones. The most logical way to stop that from happening is to incentivize guilds to organize and lead activities on those new maps (and older maps that may become dead as well).

I have to agree, PoF would lend itself well to Guild Missions. Open Land, Mounts, the bounty system already in place. It's groomed for the addition of Guild Missions to these lands.

However, it is bothersome that they "No longer have X Teams" as opposed to moving people to new projects and such, which would allow for revolving content upgrades and creation, they seem to be just eliminating teams the second the content looses it's shine, no matter how well received or enjoyed it may have been. Guild Bounties and events were often bonding moments with the guild, and IMHO, were well designed and engaging content, that provided an fun and enjoyable avenue for rewards.

Now I am seeing this once almost mandatory content (a way to acquire silvers for the guild Scribe, which I was glad to give mine to help the guild along) being tossed to the wayside. It makes it seem that Anet has no far reaching goals with the content the make, it's just a momentary introduction, with no future to them. Good, even great, coming out of the box, and then.. just dumped like yesterdays iPhone.

Kinda makes the future of any content unstable if you ask me, which is not how I think an MMO should work.. all the content (unless clearly noted like Holiday events and the like) should have a future them.

[matthewr.3980]

Players don't participate in Guild Missions because they are boring -> ArenaNet decides not to support new Guild Missions -> Even more players stop doing Guild MissionsIt's a nasty circle until one side decides to break it.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

(not counting decorations which got added after the fact for many of these)Tequatl guilds formed - 0 guild missions or guild content for tequatlTriple Trouble guilds formed - 0 guild missions or guild content for TTDry Top guilds formed - 0 guild missions or guild content for Dry TopFractal guilds formed - 0 guild missions or guild content for fractalsRaid guilds formed - 0 guild missions or guild content for raids (decorations are obviously a bit more of an incentive here, but still not a major factor in guild formation)HoT Meta guilds formed - 0 guild missions or guild content for HoT MetasMusic guilds formed - 0 guild missions or guild content for randomly playing music in Lion's ArchEtc.Etc.

If the content is good guilds will form around it and guilds will play it. PoF at least needs better rewards for Metas before anything like that will happen in PoF.

The removal of a guild team at least over a year ago isn't the end of the world for guilds at all. He also did mention that things may get added as they see need for it or see fit.

[ShiningMassXAcc.4735]

@Blaeys.3102 said:

@Brimstone.3807 said:Arenanet obviously sees their internal metrics and develops to them.>I think you would find ...Just citing the call-out of anecdotal versus data-driven decision making. I would add that the internal metrics are also likely correlating activity with micro-transacting customers.

As a side note, wouldn't it be nice if when you made a micro-transaction, you could directly nominate/fund an area of the game (does any company do this)? I might buy XYZ and play ABC, but if you funded MNO, I would actually want/play that.

[Astralporing.1957]

@ShiningMassXAcc.4735 said:

@Blaeys.3102 said:

@Brimstone.3807 said:Arenanet obviously sees their internal metrics and develops to them.>I think you would find ...Just citing the call-out of anecdotal versus data-driven decision making. I would add that the internal metrics are also likely correlating activity with micro-transacting customers.

Yeah, like that time when they decided to remove Twilight Arbor Forward Up path, because their metrics told them noone was interested in it. Which was true - noone was running it, because Anet, for half a year, didn't fix a bug that made completing that path impossible for 90% (or more) groups.

Yeah, data-driven, all right. It's just that it seems it's really easy to misinterpret the data if (as anet is prone to do, it seems), you don't analyze that data too deeply.

So, as someone mentiuoned above, it is quite likely that Anet saw a drop in people doing guild missions, and decided it means developing that content is not important, while completely ignoring the possibility that the drop may be caused by them ignoring that content in the first place.

[Smoaking.6125]

I would have quit the game 2 years ago without my guild. Would not have bought HoT or PoF or bought the several thousand gems I've gotten in the past 2 years.

Is Anet's justification for not creating new content for guilds really hat not enough guilds are running five year old content that is buggy as hell? And honestly how little money do they have that they can't support multiple teams existing at the same time, like the legendary weapon team and guild content team? Or are they just penny pinchers?

If they don't care about guilds they should change the name of the game.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

Make Guilds Great Again!

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

how would we be able to aid SMALL guild in recruitment to get numbers rather than spamming map chat and relying on forums to recruit? id like to have "Guild event in the area" across the screen when you are near a guild event and it display which guild started the event etc. this places guilds on the map!

[MashMash.1645]

@phys.7689 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The issue with guild missions is that with each expansion they release, it will segment players who do not purchase them. Having PoF guild missions would mean that those without it would not be able to complete them. It's also impractical to give a different set for those that only have core or those that have core and HoT.

I also disagree with the notion that guilds are the backbone of the game. They're not. All content can easily be done without a guild. The reason maps feel empty, other than because of the "flawed" megaserver system, is because there are no rewards or anything if interest to compel players to play on those maps. Just look at the meta event rewards. How likely are you to do them after you got the achievement and/or collection item?

so what, the same can be said of any content in an expansion

You could also get around this. They already instance some guild missions in core tyria - surely they could do the same with those set in HoT or PoF maps?

I always thought it would be great marketing to have players that don't have an expac be able to port into an instanced version of a part of Verdant Brink or Vabii to do a race or some sort of guild event / mission.

It would be like the instanced guild missions now - you leave the area you get booted. But you can experience a portion - for that week anyway - of the xpac maps. And their are many currently existing events that would works. Like the Casino coins or races, etc. You could have guild versions that don't let you keep the coins but give other loot.

[Puma.3645]

i think theyre ok if you have time and are good at talking to people..but otherwise i havent had good luck finding one that doesnt die in a few months..lol

[NazzyDragon.9127]

Anet, there's a good chunk that play this game for their guilds & enjoy guild content. Don't completely abandon it. OP makes great points.

P.S. Dungeon team pls. Dungeons were A W E S O M E. Seriously. Thanks.

[Deihnyx.6318]

Given the examples, I agree that adding some guild content wouldn't be too hard (coding wise) but would actually make guild missions meaningful again.Just take example of WvW guild missions and make PvE missions based on that. It just works.

Other example: 3 Fractals in 1 hour, at least 3 members must participate.

Also: New treks! Taking mounts into account for old maps. It could be pretty fun...

[drgast.1469]

The game needs more, better Guild content. Not less.