Druid healing coefficients overnerfed

[HeadCrowned.6834]

So I've played Druid in PvP basically since the elite spec launched. We all know that this elite spec has received nerf after nerf since a few years now. I was hopeful that with the big patch that some stuff would be adjusted on this class, but instead it got nerfed even further. Druid used to be a duelist spec, basically bunkering sidenodes. Then Anet decided they didnt like that, which is fine by me. Then they renewed the Grandmaster trait Lingering Light to a heal buff for allies youre healing. Apparently Anet indicated that Druid should be a support class. But Druids self sustain got nerfed too hard in relation to what else the class can bring to the table. It lost the evade on staff #3. It lost the stunbreak on entering CA. Its stealth duration after leaving CA was nerfed. It didnt get 2 condi cleanses for traited glyphs.

Now one of the main issues is that healing skills in CA barely heal you anymore. With menders amulet, CA #4 only heals you for 540 per tick, and CA #3 for 1900. I understand that you need to nerf healing across the board when you nerf damage across the board, but Druids self healing capabilities were already lackluster. What do you want with this class Anet? It cant be a support because it has no on-node sustain, its low healing output and the high cooldown on CA. It cant be a duelist either because it has no damage and limited resustain. The first thing to take a look at are the healing coefficients for the CA skills, because 540 per tick for Rejuvenating Tides is just laughable. You really dont need to overbuff this class because its ''my'' class, but this class keeps getting nerfs while its already considered as bad for a long time now in PvP. Why make an elite spec mechanic evolve around healing while it does no heals?

[shadowpass.4236]

Druid will probably get nerfed some more tomorrow since it obviously wasn't trash enough for Anet.

[Sasquatch.5436]

I think another big issue is CA having a 20s CD in pvp, and the amount of time it takes to build up to a full bar initially starting a match. The CD is too long to justify your capability during CA and if you get hard focused right out the gate it is incredibly difficult for you to get anything done really. Right now if you want to fully utilize CA you almost end up taking more damage than you heal up, considering you have no access to defensive evades or kiting potential during the form. You also lose almost all offensive pressure as soon as you enter it, so you need to be able to frequently enter and get out. It's essentially just a 20 second cooldown 2k heal and daze (CA 3) since casting anything else is generally a waste of time and won't even benefit you for the damage you will take casting it. A shorter CD (10 or 15s) would make a world of difference in my opinion, since you would be more free to enter and drop CA and not be a worthless meatshield until you can re-enter in 20s.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"HeadCrowned.6834"

Druid is just god awful bad after the previous set of nerfs. Right now you have 99% of the Druid community trying to meme on condi builds that only work bellow the bell curve. Some people think these builds are strong but they really REALLY aren't.

Despite the even further hoo-ha nerfing to Druid, I did find a spec and one spec that actually works well, but it still isn't as good as LB/GS Soulbeast for Conquest or 2v2s even. Core Ranger is great to a degree, but it's also not as good as Soulbeast in higher tiered play for several reasons.

Anyway, if you insist on playing Druid, here is a spec that provides actual ability to outplay higher tiered players:

GS Marks Druid

Marks - Clarion Bond "3" - Moment Of Clarity "3" - Remorseless "2"Beastmastery - Resounding Timbre "3" - Two Hand Training "2" - Lesser Zephyr "2"Druid - Druidic Clarity "1" - Celestial Shadow "1" - Lingering Light or Ancient Seeds "2 or 3"

Greatsword - Energy/IntelligenceStaff - Energy/EscapeDemolisher/Dolyak Rune~ If you're against heavy condi, swap Dolyak to Resistance and you can even swap Demolisher to Marauder/Avatar/Mending

6 - We Heal As One7 - Protect Me8 - Signet of Stone9 - Signet of Renewal0 - Strength of the Pack

Pet 1 - Tigerpet 2 - Bristleback

So what you have going on here is that all the other Druid builds are too gimmicky and they don't work against better players. People are still tunnel visioning old Druid methods and fabled myths about Condi Druids, but it all sucks. The build provided here is pretty much letting go of all those old methods, and embracing the fact that CA Kit is pretty much ruined, provides bad heal output, and has been reduced to a condi clear/stealth disengage tool. It is not longer advantageous to run heal stat unless you are specifically 1v1ing some condi build, and in that case strange Druid builds wielding Mender/Marshal actually work well. But in standard Conquest or now 2v2s, that stuff falls apart because the Druid cannot utilize the damage stats adequately in team fights against more than one opponent at a time.

Anyway, I found that stacking toughness for flat out damage mitigation and using only base heal values, is yielding much better results than trying to pump heal factor with heal stats. For Druid in this meta, this is true: (Toughness > Healing = Yes). But this build does provide a lot of stacked small heal pulsing. You have the 3x shouts with regen, Signet of Renewal which pulses more small heal, and Dolyak Rune which pulses more small heal. Between those 3 sources, your CA kit comes back FAST, so you can utilize it for condi clears. At first it would look like this build has weak condi removal, and it for sure does vs. classic Druid builds, but the condi removal here is adequate so long as you know how to finish a fight quickly.

Pretty simple gameplay for ending an opponent quickly:

1. Go in first with Staff and Bristleback. You'll have more ranged pressure than you may think. That Staff is working surprisingly well with Demolisher stats and Marks/Beast, because it is a channel, not a projectile. So you can get through all of the incredibly heavy projectile nullifications that everyone is using lately.
2. When you get close and there is an opportune moment, you pet swap to Tiger which activates Clarion Bond, hit with Hilt Bash activates MOC, hit with Maul activates AoO, push your Tiger's F2 and his Fury activates Remorseless. Now the Tiger follows your Maul with a +50% +50% +25% Pounce = Someone gets 2HKO by a Druid.
3. Some players are great and won't be caught so quickly by this combo without a bit of pscyological dancing. Just keep the attrition on with Bristleback play while he is set off-node so he doesn't die, flex the GS autos because they do hit hard and people try not to avoid them because they try to save CDs for the death 2HKO, which makes the GS autos dangerous attrition, and run run run away when you get 2v1'd. Between Staff 3, GS 3, GS 4, CA Stealth, you have a lot of disengage to monkey around and survive 1v2s, while peeling for decaps.

^ It all works. But Soulbeast LB/GS is ultimately better than Druid or Core Ranger right now.

I find this to be true with current patching:

• LB/GS Soulbeast for DPS + Decap <- Which is the most important role that a Ranger can play right now.
• LB/GS Core Ranger for team fights, it does benefit more and is more brawly that Soulbeast in team fights, however pet survival against high pressure teams is a problem.
• GS/Staff Druid for side node play. It's fast with GS/Staff for mobility and nothing should be beating you if run the build correctly outside of: Core Necro - Condi Mirage - Sagebrands, and in this case you should be swapping amulet/rune to at least be able to sustain vs. them while someone comes to +.

Oh and one other thing, you beat other rangers with this by counter weapon swapping. You use Staff when they are on LB and you swap to GS when they swap to GS. If you can do this quickly and on time, the Staff 5 wall will counter LB play, and your GS melee side will be waaaay tankier than their GS melee side, but you'll still be dealing 2HKO damage. It counters the shit out of other Ranger builds in 1v1 due to this.

[Tayga.3192]

Wait, aren't you the soulbeast who won mAT in EU?

Druid is the only ranger I like to play.Thing is, nature magic is too passive. Only after this gets fixed, I will ask for druid buffs. Especially CA buffs.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

A few things that aren't PvP-specific, but would mark a nice QoL-buff for druid there, too:

• Increase the radius of Rejuvenating Tides, or at least allow a trait to increase its radius (along with other CA skills?)
• Add more bang to the last tick of Natural Convergence.

Like, holy crap compare these two to the AoE's of Firebrand.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Tayga.3192 said:Wait, aren't you the soulbeast who won mAT in EU?

Druid is the only ranger I like to play.Thing is, nature magic is too passive. Only after this gets fixed, I will ask for druid buffs. Especially CA buffs.

If that's true, I didn't know.

I gave an explanation because I thought it was a random guy talking about Druid.

[Bast.7253]

Lol if the healing were any higher they would be invincible. Just a bunch of Condi druids running around immob spamming and cc spamming and resetting their health every 3 seconds. They’re already too strong in 1v1. Even in a team fight where they don’t get focused they’re an issue.

[Xca.9721]

They probably want to create cancer builds using Ancient Seeds

[HeadCrowned.6834]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Lol if the healing were any higher they would be invincible. Just a bunch of Condi druids running around immob spamming and cc spamming and resetting their health every 3 seconds. They’re already too strong in 1v1. Even in a team fight where they don’t get focused they’re an issue.

If you complain about druid being too strong in 1v1 then you must be somewhere in bronze division. Go sell your crap elsewhere. Condi druid isnt even a thing in competitive pvp.

Yes I won the last mAT on soulbeast and made it to finals with druid several times last year but thats not relevant. You dont need to be an expert on this class to see that a 540 heal tick on Rejuvenating Tides WHILE WEARING MENDERS AMULET is just way too low.

[Revolution.5409]

If Anet removes all the nerfs that Druid has gotten over the years, it would still not be OP like Firebrand.

[Axl.8924]

Can we have cd reduced to 10-sec cd? and would that be enough to at least make them competitive?

[Emapudapus.1307]

Ye you cant have all, if druid wants more healing you need less supper speed, less stealth and less imobilize. Sooo greedy c-c-c-c. Git gud gorm :D.

[Tayga.3192]

@Axl.8924 said:Can we have cd reduced to 10-sec cd? and would that be enough to at least make them competitive?

Reduce it to 10s cooldown, rework stealth trait (why is this a thing even) and buff energy gain by a lot.

[HeadCrowned.6834]

@Emapudapus.1307 said:Ye you cant have all, if druid wants more healing you need less supper speed, less stealth and less imobilize. Sooo greedy c-c-c-c. Git gud gorm :D.

And less damage. And less blocks. And less invulns. And less stability. Oh wait, we already dont have those. Even a necro can bunker a node better than a druid.

[Sylanna.1947]

can you imagine if holo mode took as long to be available as CA and had the same cooldown?

[Emapudapus.1307]

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Emapudapus.1307 said:Ye you cant have all, if druid wants more healing you need less supper speed, less stealth and less imobilize. Sooo greedy c-c-c-c. Git gud gorm :D.

And less damage. And less blocks. And less invulns. And less stability. Oh wait, we already dont have those. Even a necro can bunker a node better than a druid.Probably Obvious Opinion Predominate.! Pets! Only! Once! Produce

[apharma.3741]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Can we have cd reduced to 10-sec cd? and would that be enough to at least make them competitive?

Reduce it to 10s cooldown, rework stealth trait (why is this a thing even) and buff energy gain by a lot.

Remove stealth, increase the duration of superspeed to 5/6s and drop the CD on CA to 15s.Rework staff a little so that the beam is a little wider, increase whisp radius to 150 and add a bit to the healing from sublime conversion.Increase radius of cosmic ray to 150.Nerf the amount of CA juice you get from healing you and your pet even more.

[kappa.2036]

Agree, "support" druid....does not support at all! Low healing, bad AoE condi cleanses, no unique utilities outside Search and Resque (which is not usable cause its bad) or Glyph of the Stars (which can be interrupted easily since the spec have no stability while casting it). Also pets don't interact with Celestial Avatar at all, it would be nice to have a pet that becomes some sort of "support tool" when you become Celestial Avatar.The problem with druid design basically is:

• 1) The spec is too much sustainable while dealing good damage through pets so they nerfed their abilities and pets stats to oblivion.
• 2) The spec can't be a good teamfight support cause 1)Pets die too quickly 2)Core class is not designed to teamfight CAUSE PETS and too much projectiles/single target abilities 3) Druid abilities are designed with PvE in mind and not PvP/WvW.

How to solve this? Redesign the spec. We already have good options for sidenodes and for +1 (core/slb). Ranger lacks team utilities and support, and isn't druid a dedicated support? Just remove Astral Force completely and give CA a reasonable standard cooldown (20s is too much). Rework staff, especially #2 and #4. The removal of the evade on Ancestral Grace basically killed the weapon especially if you wanted to play in zergs in wvw, give it back. Increase healing coefficents a bit (agree, right now they are too low), and make pets have interactions with CA abilities. For example, Druid pets could become "Spirit Pets" (transparent look, 20% less stats like now, just with a different look) and when you become a Celestial Avatar every CA ability have an interaction with this Spirit pet, and traits and Glyphs could have interactions with it.