How would you guys feel if necro got hit?

[Axl.8924]

still seeing the threads to nerf necro sustain prot shroud dmg reduction and unholy martyr

[Sigmoid.7082]

I think a lot of this comes from the mentality people have had for the past few years: "necro is an easy burst as they can't avoid anything so focus first for an easy kill". Not this isn't the case people probably don't like it since it messes with their personal status quo: I should be able to beat necro.

People also seem worse at denying LF gain.

The shroud damage reduction is weird. Has been in the game since the start, when damage and CC were lower than now, but it's now a problem? I feel this goes back to my first point. Didn't matter because "LOL blow up necro its easy".

Could keep going but won't. Sure some things need a shave , few things in BM and lich form, but I don't feel necro is massively out. A lot of the need calls are people wanting necro to be as easy a kill as it was before / be a completely non factor/ need a baby sitter again.

Literally getting mad a class designed around battles of attrition has advantages in and/or is winning battles of attrition.

[KrHome.1920]

@Axl.8924 said:still seeing the threads to nerf necro sustain prot shroud dmg reduction and unholy martyrI will simply drop the game if ANet listens to those noobs. But I don't think they will do that. Their balance patch was spot-on for 95% of the skills, which is quite an achievement. They do obviously know their game better than a celestial weaver complaining about not being able to kill a bunker necro. Ever seen a thread where a bunker necro complained about the fact not being able to kill a celestial weaver? I have high skill level fights every day and necro is nothing special there.

90% of the balancing threads are dunning-kruger effect threads. The infuse light thread (top in the pvp section currently) is also a good example for it. It is so easy to counter and there are still players that are overchallenged with it and blame it being responsible for the performance of a build they can not kill.

Lich Form: a bunker necro entering lich form will get a hardforcus from me and others and will have to leave it again after 2 seconds because he would die otherwise.

[Leonidrex.5649]

necro needs a rework and not a nerf, it will be shit or too good every time. Like any other class in any other game that relies on raw HP to survive.You can either always chew through it and kill them like its nothing or you can never do it and they shit on you while laughing at pathetic damage of others.We just have seen both close to one another.First was scourge with FB holding hands never dying and just vomiting sustained damage, forcing everyone but the tankies of peeps ( usually scrapper/fb/scourge ) to stay everyone else needed to fuck off or die.Then they got gutted, necro no longer can survive hard by spamming 1mil HP over the entire match.Now they nerfed all dmg by 30% but didnt nerf any necro sustain so w back to scrouge example, where in 2v2 fights you fucking deal up to 1mil damage and get 1-2 kills.They did pathetic nerfs that did nothing, soon they will propably come for round 2 and either do jack or make necro shit again.

[Dadnir.5038]

Imo I'm more affraid of ANet claiming that they are excited about their next improvements on any profession than them going for a round of nerfs. ANet's improvement always seem to be worse than nerfs. It's not that there aren't thousand of idea for improvement given on the forum but each time ANet seem to make the worst possible change (and it's true for all professions).

The necromancer's increase in sustain was something players knew would happen when they announced the 30% global damage reduction. The proper way to adress this newfound sustain would have been to simply reduce the LF pool in sPvP/WvW for core and reaper but ANet chose to target individual sources of LF/sustain. They chose quantity over quality.

Now players will continue to complain about the necromancer's sustain while other will continue to defend it. Both will have good arguments due to the unique dual nature of the shroud and ANet will just continue to tinker with the wrong things until players feel it's alright when in reality everything is messed up more and more. It's been 7 years that they do things this way after all it would be surprising if for once they were doing things right all of a sudden.

[Axl.8924]

Thats my fear they will overnerf the wrong thing killing necros.

[Josiah.2967]

Necro is lowest for end game PVE content. There is no way it gets anything other than a buff. Reaper is also lacking in PVP as well.

I think players are so use to Necro's being free kills in PVP (Scourage excluded) that it's becoming obvious they do not want balance. They want free kills. Good players adapt and are killing Necro's left and right.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

same with any class nerf the right stuff.

btw unholy martyr already got nerfed, not that is was overperforming.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:same with any class nerf the right stuff.

btw unholy martyr already got nerfed, not that is was overperforming.

People say unholy martyr but think unholy sanctuary. It's due to the "unholy".

@Axl.8924 said:Thats my fear they will overnerf the wrong thing killing necros.

You shouldn't be affraid of some overnerf, usually when they do they end up putting back some power elsewhere. No, truly the only thing to be affraid off is ANet being excited about a rework that might have done on something. I have yet to see one with a positif impact on the necromancer (well maybe when they finally managed to teach how to swim to the golem...).

[KrHome.1920]

The nerfs they did recently have not been that bad because the did only target pvp. The builds using these skills and traits are still playable in the game mode. Anet was competent enough to see that the damage in wvw is so much higher that there is absolutely not need to nerf the necro sustain - not even for bunker necro.

When they start doing reworks it's a 50% chance that they will be good. They failed on warhorn. But they did great on spectral walk, reaper's onslaught and death perception. And they did put the damage multipliers at the right place. Focus4 is a mixed bag. It's underwhelming but more reliable than before. The value of eternal life is questionable to say the least - too strong and redundant in pve and too weak in pvp/wvw.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Axl.8924 said:still seeing the threads to nerf necro sustain prot shroud dmg reduction and unholy martyrI will simply drop the game if ANet listens to those noobs. But I don't think they will do that. Their balance patch was spot-on for 95% of the skills, which is quite an achievement. They do obviously know their game better than a celestial weaver complaining about not being able to kill a bunker necro. Ever seen a thread where a bunker necro complained about the fact not being able to kill a celestial weaver? I have high skill level fights every day and necro is nothing special there.

90% of the balancing threads are dunning-kruger effect threads. The infuse light thread (top in the pvp section currently) is also a good example for it. It is so easy to counter and there are still players that are overchallenged with it and blame it being responsible for the performance of a build they can not kill.

Lich Form: a bunker necro entering lich form will get a hardforcus from me and others and will have to leave it again after 2 seconds because he would die otherwise.

Maybe you're speaking from a WvW perspective, but in Conquest, it's a lot less about killing and a lot more about point control. Which is exactly where bunker necros shine.

[ElderNewt.5840]

Necro without a rework overall has always been either... TOO OP or TOO UNDERPOWERED.

[Junkpile.7439]

They could nerf this stupid signet build so i could take under 50% hp damage boost trait that i have used years. I just don't know how i have played necro for years without using broken signed build. Life force gain feels so bad if you don't run over enemies whole time. Kills are like only good way to get life force.

[Opal.9324]

That depends on how hard they hit it. If they gut the entire class like the whiners on the forums want, I'm gonna be pretty upset. If they act reasonable and only nerf the stuff that's overperforming, I probably won't care too much. Those who want free kills should never be catered to in situations regarding balance.

[Shroud.2307]

I'm putting my faith in ANet not to listen to the minority on this. They make questionable decisions but with a new balance lead hopefully they see the source of the problems for what they are and adjust them accordingly.

I've been repeating myself on these forums like a broken record about it because I don't like when niche things get nerfed just because some don't know how to deal with it/don't understand it. With Necro how it currently is I think certain skills and traits could use some very minor number adjustments but that's all it needs. Strong maybe, but only in the right hands. Otherwise it's a punching bag that just takes a while to kill. People need to learn that Necro is supposed to be the attrition class that for the first time in a long time is fitting that role.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"KrHome.1920" said:The nerfs they did recently have not been that bad because the did only target pvp. The builds using these skills and traits are still playable in the game mode. Anet was competent enough to see that the damage in wvw is so much higher that there is absolutely not need to nerf the necro sustain - not even for bunker necro.

When they start doing reworks it's a 50% chance that they will be good. They failed on warhorn. But they did great on spectral walk, reaper's onslaught and death perception. And they did put the damage multipliers at the right place. Focus4 is a mixed bag. It's underwhelming but more reliable than before. The value of eternal life is questionable to say the least - too strong and redundant in pve and too weak in pvp/wvw.

It all depend on the point of view, from my point of view, reaper's onslaught and death perception are horrible as traits. The truth of those traits is that they work toward the idea that the shroud is the main damage dealing tool. The problem being that the shroud is already the main defensive tool of the necromancer and packing defense and offense on a single skill is a balance issue in itself. So, no, they didn't do a "great" job with those traits, if anything it's a perfect example of ANet doing things wrong.

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

The problem is not if necro gets hit or not, it's how that is done. Because a reasonable nerf can be accepted from players of a class but a simple swing of pendulum from op to trash is not going to be welcome.For example if you want to nerf damage reduction of shroud you should do it in a proportionate way: dmg reduction is now 50% let's go with a 33% nerf just like everything else in the patch. If you calculate it, shroud dmg reduction would be now 33.5% instead of 50.This is an example of how you can conduct a proportionate nerf but if it could have very different effect on core necro vs reaper. Infact I would argue that since reaper has more shroud degen and tend to be in melee aka eating more dmg, it would be too much of a nerf, while on core necro which is more ranged the nerf could be done and even if it would impact the shroud it would not feel an overnerf.Necro is a class that needs very calibrated buff and nerfs because it easily swings from overperforming to borderline op into trash with very few changes.If to this you add the fact the for years people got used to the fact that necro if not supported by another class was a free kill, you would see why ppl would ask for more nerfs. Simply because they can't cc lock or oneshot to death a necro.And with this I'm not saying that there aren't aspects left of necro and its elite spec that shouldn't be nerfed because are overperforming but it should be done not just with a pendulum swing on the opposite direction.

The list of things left to do imo would be:

• Lich form nerf dmg by 33% and get coefficients in line
• Ritual of Life should get a 33% nerf in ressing power
• vampiric and vampiric presence 33% nerf in healing and dmg

Concerning unholy martyr it's not like it wasn't already nerf along with signets. Infact it UM was nerfed by 50%. Here's a quote from patch notes

Necromancer:

Signet of Undeath: Reduced passive life force gained per interval from 4% to 2% in PvP only.Signet of Vampirism: Reduced passive base heal when struck from 325 to 211 in PvP only.Unholy Martyr: Reduced life force per condition consumed from 7% to 3% in PvP only.Death's Carapace: Reduced toughness per stack from 20 to 10 in PvP only.Lich Form: Reduced duration from 20 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP only.